Tekforums
Chat => Sports, Hobbies & Motors => Topic started by: mr_roll on March 25, 2006, 17:00:33 PM
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Im getting a 106 Rallye.
1.3L 8V
Toyo tyres
K&N Air induction kit and throttle boddies
Lovelly car to drive, just not on long journeys.
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Thought you had it allready has ended up getting blasted past a week or so ago, on the A167 North Bound heading chester way...
Im also looking around for the same spec Rallye that has preferably not had modifications done on it..
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The K&N filter is an interesting addition even if you dont want to go for out and out performance. Most of them used to be washable and had a better performance dirty than a clean standard filter, this is probably still true.
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KnN filters are indeed cleanable, they generally give less restriction and more induction noise, but can end up reducing performance by sucking in hot air from around the engine
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Standard paper filters are fine, and the big box waffle ones breath pretty damn easily. K&Ns dont clean the air as well and are dinosaur tech. Expensive and worse for your engine. Yuck. Ive had an old ride with the oiled model. A total PITA.
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Sounds nice mate, I quite like the look of the rallyes very basic with the painted metal interior and not many extras etc but as if they are built just to have fun in.
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Ive never been a fan of the daft cone filters, however Ive personally felt a benefit from swapping the standard panel filter to a better one.
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The K&N filter is an interesting addition even if you dont want to go for out and out performance. Most of them used to be washable and had a better performance dirty than a clean standard filter, this is probably still true.
more airflow doesnt always equal more performance.
Dirty air is more harmful than good, if that wasnt the case people would remove air filters and go filterless as thats going to get the highest air flow surely. *Guessing*
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a good quality panel filter in the standard airbox is better than a cone filter.
Cone filters suffer from heat wash from the engine, so end up sucking warm less dense air.
I would recomend a ITG Panel filter.
http://www.needforspeed.co.uk/pages/sbv_pl.asp?Vehicle=PG10601&PartType=AFI01
running without a filter is indeed very bad with prolonged use, dust and grit get sucked up and pit the valves and pistons.
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Hold on - if its got TBs then it will have a long filter covering all the inlet trumpets (Id guess this is whats on here due to space restrictions), or there can be a manifold fitted across all four inlet trumpets and terminating at a single pipe.
Neither of these arrangements pave the way for a panel air filter - normally.
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LOL everyone goes straight for the K&N air filter and doesnt realise that the throttle bodies are gonna add a fair whack of performance onto it
i bet its quite nippy, do you know what TBs they are and what management they use?
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They will also have required some pretty expensive set up and they will need a check up - you wouldnt believe the amount of have-a-go mechanics who fit throttle bodies and wonder why all runs like a dog afterwards. No consideration whatsoever is given to correct management - usually you find a bodge of the original EFI.
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KnN filters are indeed cleanable, they generally give less restriction and more induction noise, but can end up reducing performance by sucking in hot air from around the engine
They also supply ones to replace the standard filters in many cars IIRC. TBH I certainly wouldnt put a cone right on top of the carb, you need to either tube it to the front, as close as possible to cold air, or shove it in an air scoop.
The K&N filter is an interesting addition even if you dont want to go for out and out performance. Most of them used to be washable and had a better performance dirty than a clean standard filter, this is probably still true.
more airflow doesnt always equal more performance.
True, only if the car is tuned corectly do you get any advantage, in some you need to rejet the carb too. What you would end up with by just fitting the filter is more air getting sucked into the engine resulting in a lean burn.
Dirty air is more harmful than good, if that wasnt the case people would remove air filters and go filterless as thats going to get the highest air flow surely. *Guessing*
Theoretically it should but it depends on the engine, some suffer badly if they dont have a filter on. You certainly dont want to go without a filter as dust entering the engine is going to cause more wear than any gain in airflow will produce.
It also depends on the car manufacturer, a few have got their filters pretty damn near perfect.
K&N filters actually have no loss of power over an open airflow system.
http://www.m8auto-tec.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/103110
Yeah I know - advertising blurb but it was reported about 20 years ago in a mag which actually tested the filters that a K&N one gave better throughput of air after the Baja rally than a new paper filter and the flow loss over open carb was well under 1%.
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Standard paper filters are fine, and the big box waffle ones breath pretty damn easily. K&Ns dont clean the air as well and are dinosaur tech. Expensive and worse for your engine. Yuck. Ive had an old ride with the oiled model. A total PITA.
Really? and how often did you clean and oil it?
[edit] Come to think of it there used to be another company who made metal mesh filters with a very similar name that I cant remember now, and you would be quite right about those, metal mesh filters are terrible, in review they came out almost as bad as an open carb. and you have to oil those too.
IIRC K&N filters use a cotton media and oil, they are independently tested to be at least as good as paper ones. 90% of the entries into the Baja rally use them and theres very few races as dusty as that [/edit]
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its not the filter that stops dust getting thru, its the oil on the filter
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Well its as Serious said he mentioned the oil and cotton make up and yeah ensuring that you replenish the oil on the filter will ensure no dust going in.
Btw. what managment systems would be used on the throttle boddies.. What I mean is what else would be changed to ensure they are efficently used etc...
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the ECU would be changed to one that could be mapped specifically for the engine and TBs, something like DTA, motec, omex, emerald etc
you could use the existing EFI system but itd be a proper bodge job as theyre quite limited in the parametres u can put in
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Id be far more concerned that the throttle bodies were correctly set up never mind a daft air filter. The standard exhaust on them is good as well - so if it has a stupid noisy big back box, get the standard one back on.
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Standard back box on the 106 Rallye is rather nice anyway the noise of it when you drop a cog is immense...
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Well its as Serious said he mentioned the oil and cotton make up and yeah ensuring that you replenish the oil on the filter will ensure no dust going in.
Btw. what managment systems would be used on the throttle boddies.. What I mean is what else would be changed to ensure they are efficently used etc...
I fitted one on my old mini after I bought it and then got the carb set up properly for economy use, first time I cleaned the thing was five years and 40,000 miles later and it didnt really need it then. Totally out performed the original paper one. TBH a K&N should outlast the lifetime of a car and then some if you look after it.
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they sound better with the group n exhaust
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Just did a search and found their website, didnt know they had one. TBH it costs less if you have self adjusting fuel injection or some form of automatic tuning as you dont have to go to the trouble of getting it done properly. Not getting it tuned up may end up with problems.
http://www.knfilters.com/
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what with throttle bodies? you have to get it mapped otherwise you can end up with pinking
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Never mind pinking - it will have massive flat spots and the mixture will be up the chuff if it hasnt been set up correctly - potential overheating !