Tekforums
Chat => Entertainment & Technology => Topic started by: XEntity on December 12, 2011, 19:31:10 PM
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Hi Guys,
Not sure if we still have the knowledge for this on the forum, but someone needs to get wifi in a building 150m away from their main house, cost isn't so much of an issue within sensible limits..
They are laying an armoured mains cable, so if we can do something underground then that's ideal, but CAT6 is a 100m limit and there is no option for power in between.
So options are:
- Run 150m of armoured CAT6 next to the mains cable and cross your fingers!
- Building to building focused wifi antenna between the two, there are trees next to building 2 so may need a pole the other side of the trees (no ideas if the trees are going to make an impact?
- Armoured fibre optic cable between the two, not sure what available at "consumer" level?
- EoP (Ethernet over power) Assuming we can get it on the same ring main, does anyone know how this should work over 150m?
It needs to be reliable not need support in life, so money spent up front, rather than cheap components?
Does anyone have any experience or is there anything I have missed?
Cheers
Jake
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how fast do you need it ?
you "should" get 100mbit fine over 150m of armoured cat6 cable
(or even drop it to 10mbit if that's any good)
it needs to be armoured if it's next to the mains cable
and put a decent switch at each end
is the full 150meters underground ?
if there's somewhere you can access it, you could always use 2 of the unused network wires to send power down to a switch/booster in the middle ? if you do this you'll have to check the voltage at the switch in the middle and adjust at your source to make up for the voltage loss along the cable... (one of those cheap wall wart type power supplys with a switch on can do it easy)
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Yeah the full 150 meters is underground, so that's why I'm a little concerned, it's literally under a garden so no option for a repeater, the main problem is we can't really test it until weeks later, it looks like its going to be about £450 for that length (after a quick google)
It needs to be quick enough to browse the net reliably, the internet in the location is probably going to be no more than 10 meg at the router..
Still don't want to spend £450 if its either unreliable or non existent?
Although don't want to miss out of the opportunity to hardwire underground as it's a lot less hassle than anything else if it works..
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Just to add, I'm over 200 miles away from the install, so have no opportunity to have a play...
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if that some kind of special cable for going underground ?
can;t remember what I paid for a reel last time... but it was pretty cheap....
you could run it inside a length of hose as conduit and save a few hundred quid ?
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If you get the slightly higher spec Category 6a cable/Augmented Category 6 cable it will do the 150m run just fine without need for a repeater. If you want to be extra safe in the knowledge it won't be affected by being underground such as cold, damp, etc run it through a length of hose like knighty suggested (great thinking there ;))
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I wouldn't fancy trying to push it through a hose pipe of that length, doing 20m gets tough!
Yeah at that price it says it can be buried but it's not cat6a, google shopping returns nothing on cat6a armoured :(
The expense isn't a problem if I can have some confidence it will work, to be honest the expense might not matter that much, just need to evaluate the options really..
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As pointed out, you could get lower spec cable and run it at slower speeds, but really you want the highest quality cable you can get your hands on especially if you plan on it being in the ground for a long time. I reckon you could get a stanley and cut down one side of the hose, slide the cable in, then seal it with glue/gaffer tape and it would be just as good while saving you the effort of forcing 150m of cable through a hose :D
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Had a few customers with this scenario. A few went wireless, which works quite well for the money but is far from perfect.
I've seen people do it with basic cat5 :gag:
Proper rugged cable is the way to go imo, copper should be ok over that length but make sure it's rodent proof and have a plan for when it breaks.
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feeding the cable into the hose is easy
use some string first, with a nail (or something heavy) tied to the end of it, while one person feeds it into the end of the hose, another walks along the hose with it spinning the hose around.... as you spin the house the nail moves away from you pulling the string in... then tape string to cable at the end and pull it through... or... you can fix something light to the end of the string but so it only just fits in the end of the hose... and then blow through with an air compressor :-)
use decent braided hose, not b+q hosepipe etc.. :-)
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Well the cat6 cable I found says it's suitable for being buried, so hopefully that'll do it without the effort of feeding it through a pipe..
After having another search armoured 6a/augmented doesn't seem to exist!
I'll pass on the info though as it's not something I'm managing, it's actually for an old client who's after some advice, but I have reasons for supporting them ;)
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could used to cut the cable in the middle & rejoin with a coupler for long runs.. could be worth or trying...
or just get 150m of fibre optic & a media convertor at both ends.
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Fibre is certainly an option, but I've never used it (which is the main problem for me to give advice)
I have no idea how to add connectors to the ends or the Fibre/Copper interfaces, I expect some more googleing may sort that, have you used a fibre netwrok before?
Cheers again guys
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Fibre and Gbics are well expensive, as are the switches that support them.
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Fibre and Gbics are well expensive, as are the switches that support them.
but may work out cheaper in the long run.... when you want more speed & what is done dont work & you end up digging it all up to put fiber in.
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Got to agree with Egg, your scenario screams fibre. If cost isn't an issue I can't possibly see why you'd use anything else for it. I'd get shot at work for even suggesting copper for a job like this TBH! Fibre is easy don't be afraid of installing it - and it'll thread through a hose easily too if you wanted.
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But by that point it still may have been worth waiting.
Tbh, I'm out of touch with fibre and have no idea of costs anymore.
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Waiting isn't really an option, there will be people laying some mains cable very soon, cheers all for your responses I'll have a look at costs for a reliable solution and I'll let you know what we end up with and the result!
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But by that point it still may have been worth waiting.
Tbh, I'm out of touch with fibre and have no idea of costs anymore.
about £1 a meter +vat
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I would look at maybe installing a dedicated 2.5 SWA cable just for the powerline ethernet.
One end connected to the nearest socket in the house and the other a socket behind the computer just for the powerline adapter.
If there are sparks on site they wont mind doing it, and the cable wont cost much more than cat6 and the equipment less than fiber.
I've had issues with cat5 runs over 100m before and wireless is too flakey
if there ant any sparks or they wont do it i will if it is anywere near me.
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feeding the cable into the hose is easy
use some string first, with a nail (or something heavy) tied to the end of it, while one person feeds it into the end of the hose, another walks along the hose with it spinning the hose around.... as you spin the house the nail moves away from you pulling the string in... then tape string to cable at the end and pull it through... or... you can fix something light to the end of the string but so it only just fits in the end of the hose... and then blow through with an air compressor :-)
use decent braided hose, not b+q hosepipe etc.. :-)
Was gonna suggest something similar, except 150m of string would create quite a drag on something like a nail. My solution would be to get a high power rare earth magnet to run along the outside to pull the string through. On the plus side, once the jobs done, you'll have a fun magnetic toy to play with...
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I would look at maybe installing a dedicated 2.5 SWA cable just for the powerline ethernet.
One end connected to the nearest socket in the house and the other a socket behind the computer just for the powerline adapter.
If there are sparks on site they wont mind doing it, and the cable wont cost much more than cat6 and the equipment less than fiber.
I've had issues with cat5 runs over 100m before and wireless is too flakey
if there ant any sparks or they wont do it i will if it is anywere near me.
What do you mean here? A separate cable to the heavy duty mains cable that's already going in?
The one that's going in is likely to be more heavy duty than that one.. Either way I imagine that the noise over power would be worse than that of a cat6 cable of the same length?
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I think if the powerline solution was anywhere near as reliable companies would be bending over backwards to do this, I can't see it being great over this distance at all compared to a cat6/fibre solution.
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I would look at maybe installing a dedicated 2.5 SWA cable just for the powerline ethernet.
One end connected to the nearest socket in the house and the other a socket behind the computer just for the powerline adapter.
If there are sparks on site they wont mind doing it, and the cable wont cost much more than cat6 and the equipment less than fiber.
I've had issues with cat5 runs over 100m before and wireless is too flakey
if there ant any sparks or they wont do it i will if it is anywere near me.
What do you mean here? A separate cable to the heavy duty mains cable that's already going in?
The one that's going in is likely to be more heavy duty than that one.. Either way I imagine that the noise over power would be worse than that of a cat6 cable of the same length?
The main feed going in will be much bigger, 10mm2 at that run I would imagine. Powerline would probably work fine on that cable but if there is a lot of load on the cable you might start loosing stability.
The reason I suggested a separate smaller cable (2.52) is that it can be dedicated just for the powerline adapters so no load/interference to effect the data transmission.
At these lengths the resistance of cat6 cable would get high, it is only 0.5mm2 there is a reason it is only spec'd to 100m
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I think if the powerline solution was anywhere near as reliable companies would be bending over backwards to do this, I can't see it being great over this distance at all compared to a cat6/fibre solution.
I do work in loads of offices and commercial buildings that have started using powerline, it is just so convenient pretty much anyone can set it up. Its not very secure though, everyone on the street that is one the same phase as you can access your data if you dont have the encryption setup properly.
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http://www.connectworld.net/syscon/support.htm
1. What is the difference between CAT-5, CAT-5e, CAT-6, CAT-7...
The Simple Answer:
CAT-5 is rated to 100M
CAT-5e is rated to 350M CAT-6 and CAT6e is rated to 550M or 1000M depending on your source
CAT-7 is supposedly rated to 700M or presumably 1000M
Today there is no approved CAT-6 or CAT-7. While some folks are selling products they call Level 6 or 7, there aren't even specs for them, making CAT-5e the best available option. CAT-6 cable is being made with 23 guage conductor wire as opposed to the slightly smaller 24 guage for CAT-5e and also has a separator to handle crosstalk better.
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Those figures seem plucked out of the air to me. I've never seen anywhere quote figures like that before. Even the official cat 6 ieee spec sheet says 100m
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Those figures seem plucked out of the air to me. I've never seen anywhere quote figures like that before. Even the official cat 6 ieee spec sheet says 100m
on the same page :-
5. What are the maximum lengths for cables?
For Solid UTP:
Fast Ethernet 100baseT 100 Meters (328 feet)
Twisted Pair Ethernet 10baseT 100 Meters (328 feet)
Recommended maximum lengths for Patch Cables made from stranded cable:
Fast Ethernet 100baseT 10 Meters (33 feet)
Twisted Pair Ethernet 10baseT 10 Meters (33 feet)
I believe you may be able to get away with a coupler to join 2x 100m cables.
cant quite remember exactly what the lengths are, may be less than 100m, but can
get around the 100m limit.
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Found that page looking for cables that might do better than 100M :) also found someone saying you can do 250m HDMI at 1080p with dual CAT5 cables :)
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Doing it via wireless would probably be the easiest in terms of install etc but its not very reliable, the firm I work for now had a seperate office a few hundred meters away (For those who know Newcastle the main office is on the quayside just next to the milenium bridge and the satelite office was behind the law courts which we had a direct line of sight roof top to roof top) so they got a company in and installed wireless. It was usually fine but had some major problems, at one point there was some temporary generators installed for an event on the Gateshead quayside 150m away in the opposite direction and they caused so much interferance it stopped them working. Needless to say everyone was happy the day they closed that office!
As for how to do this sort of situation I'd probably go for fibre as well, its not that expensive really just slightly more awkward in terms of getting it terminated at either end correctly but am sure there'll be a video or two on youtube showing you how.
Heres your cable for you, should be fairly wel resistant to any thing under a garden...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Armoured-submersible-cable-3MW-10KV-w-optical-fiber-seabased-operations-/110795573331?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item19cbee4853
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Haha do they sell it by the meter?