Tekforums
Chat => Entertainment & Technology => Topic started by: zpyder on August 16, 2013, 12:03:25 PM
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I've been with hostgator for several years as it was cheap and cheerful, and I wasn't really trying to do much with my website(s) other than have email accounts and store things.
However now, having www.microphoto.co.uk and my photography website, it's apparent it's wayyyyyyyyy to slooooooooow. Can take several seconds for a page to load etc.
Question is, what do you guys recommend?
Ideally I need a host service that can migrate everything across, and isn't too stingy with storage space due to the photo-heavy nature of the websites.
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I'm using 1&1 and even their smaller packages cope fine with multiple websites. I think all of the packages are unlimited bandwidth/hosting. It's all a bespoke system (no cpanel or anything like that) so takes a little getting used to but it works fine, their support are actually pretty decent and I rarely have issues (running about 20 websites off their top package). The main thing is that they make it very easy to manage multiple sites and databases. Import the domains, point the domain destination to a folder on the server with the site files in and make sure there is a db setup in the mysql admin section.
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I'm guessing Tek is hosted on 1&1?
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why dont you tell ohstgator they are slow and see if there is a better server or package for a photo heavy site?
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Yes, Tek is hosted on 1&1.
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one.com :)
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I use a vps at quickpacket. Think I posted it up in the bargains section. $15 a year.
I also have used www.asmallorange.com for nearly a decade I think at $25 a year and they've been pretty flawless. Good customer service too.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
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I'm not entirely sure how much of the slowness is down to the config of the sites. I suspect that microphoto could be slow due to having 800+ pages, and plugins that index and list child pages etc.
I'll certainly drop them an email to let them know.
I emailed 1&1 to inquire about the transfer process. The reponse was that they'd give me an ftp account and I'd just upload the sites contents. No mention of transferring databases, that's not right is it?
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Hmm, depends what you said in the email i guess, maybe they assumed you just have files. I don't know any webhost that offers a database copying service, its not as simple as transferring files as you need to export it first into an sql dump. The 1&1 standard package will give you up to 10 databases.
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cpanel contains a transfer mechanism that can move one site to another.
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Our shared hosting does support Joombla and Wordpress. You would need to go into a Linux based package for those two websites. For migrating your sites you will simply be uploading the websites into FTP accounts that we provide for you. As for email and your domains, those will be a little of a process. Domain names usually take between 3 and 5 days to fully transfer over. You will also need to back up all of your emails into a temporary storage area (such as a gmail or yahoo account).
and my question was:
Hello
>
> I have been a hostgator customer for several years, and can't really fault
> them for their value and service, other than that their shared hosting is
> very slow. I own several domains with a number of email accounts. It's all
> controlled through cpanel. My websites are a mix of either wordpress or
> Joomla CMS systems.
>
> I was wondering if you could tell me how easy it would be to migrate across
> to one of your packages? You've been recommended by a friend as being fast
> and trouble free!
>
> Many thanks,
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Hello,
You have been hitting your limits as defined by our Terms of Services here: http://support.hostgator.com/articles/pre-sales-policies/rules-terms-of-service/processes-limit
- Checking "/opt/hgmods/kill_usage.log"
[-] zpyder killed 810 times.
[-] zpyder killed 40 times in past 24hrs.
[-] zpyder was first killed: Sun Jul 28 13:42:01 CDT 2013
[-] zpyder was last killed: Fri Aug 16 17:18:01 CDT 2013
Today's kills:
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This is almost exclusively because Mac Mail is misconfigured, please review our documentation here:
http://support.hostgator.com/articles/specialized-help/email/mac-mail-setup
This is an old uni-buddies email account. Guess i'd better see if he's still using it. I wonder if getting rid of it will make much of a difference. The logs above certainly makes it look bad!
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Transferring a database is usually easy as 123. Just dump it and import it.
And don't go 1&1 they are sh*t, the customer service abysmal and they just don't understand technology, unless you like explaining the basics to some callcenter teen. Hell use godaddy even, just don't go 1&1.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
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What one.com uses http://www.phpmyadmin.net/home_page/index.php is that workable ?
http://www.one.com/en/product/mysql
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Transferring a database is usually easy as 123. Just dump it and import it.
And don't go 1&1 they are sh*t, the customer service abysmal and they just don't understand technology, unless you like explaining the basics to some callcenter teen. Hell use godaddy even, just don't go 1&1.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
When was the last time you used both? I've used both extensively, GoDaddy are dire. How many websites do you manage?
'Just dump it and import it' isn't quite accurate, you will probably have to replace a lot of relative paths in the SQL dump, at least for Wordpress its not as simple as that. You can duplicate your Joomla site in a click using Akeeba backup.
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Well my uni-friend had said he'd forgotten it was hosted on my server and is going to shift everything somewhere else. So I'll hold fire until I can remove his email account and see what effect that has.
When I logged in to cpanel I only had 3/25 processes in use (2 were his email and 1 was me in cpanel) - I assume if my account was hitting the 25 limit, that hostgator might also throttle my account, as well as kill any additional processes? Certainly that email above suggests I was violating some terms of use.
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Transferring a database is usually easy as 123. Just dump it and import it.
And don't go 1&1 they are sh*t, the customer service abysmal and they just don't understand technology, unless you like explaining the basics to some callcenter teen. Hell use godaddy even, just don't go 1&1.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
When was the last time you used both? I've used both extensively, GoDaddy are dire. How many websites do you manage?
'Just dump it and import it' isn't quite accurate, you will probably have to replace a lot of relative paths in the SQL dump, at least for Wordpress its not as simple as that. You can duplicate your Joomla site in a click using Akeeba backup.
Godaddy is indeed dire, but I've had worse from 1&1. Several years ago and I would never recommend them because of my experience with them. If they have changed, fantastic but after having them effectively steal 3 domains from me for a year I shan't change my mind on that.
Wordpress has a migrate function in it. I've used it just 2 months ago. Exported to XML, imported... Bosh, only thing I had to sort were image links.
Transferring a database is dump and import you may need to do an "update" statement post import but its not that scary that it can't be done by zpyder.
I "manage" 5 different sites. 4 are mine, 1 is external. Though what that has to do with the price of fish when recommending one vendor over another due to a poor customer service experience I've no idea.
I use: quickpacket, asmallorange and 123-reg.
I actively avoid: 1&1 and godaddy.
/recommendation
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"What it has to do with the price of fish" is the difference between being managing a single site "several years ago" with a host and managing a multitude of sites on a monthly basis, including eCommerce sites. If you haven't used them recently its hardly a fair remark on them.
The migrate function you're talking about for Wordpress is not built in, at least I can find no reference to it anywhere. Its probably one of various plugins you've installed, which is fine as its no big deal to do.
I can agree that 123-reg are okay though, as it happens.
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Judging from your email zpyder it sounds like Mac mail was causing some kind of issue, you might find its all completely back to normal now and you don't need to move at all. If you only have a couple of sites and email accounts there's no way you should be hitting process limits.
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"What it has to do with the price of fish" is the difference between being managing a single site "several years ago" with a host and managing a multitude of sites on a monthly basis, including eCommerce sites. If you haven't used them recently its hardly a fair remark on them.
The migrate function you're talking about for Wordpress is not built in, at least I can find no reference to it anywhere. Its probably one of various plugins you've installed, which is fine as its no big deal to do.
I can agree that 123-reg are okay though, as it happens.
The same could be said for managing multiple sites yet never using the customer service :/
Zpyder asked for recommendations and I gave my honest opinion tiz all.
Being pretty sec savvy, I also don't use too many WordPress plugins beyond jetpack, akismet and a rotating twitter widget, it was within a maintenance panel iirc something like "import" will take a screenshot next time I'm on the PC.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
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I do use the customer service occasionaly though, despite being savvy. hence my point about it being a bit of an unfair comparison to how they were a few years back. for me especially on one of the higher tier packages its good to know there is 24x7 support available and while it might be with a foreign aupport team they tend to be knowledgeable and speak great American english :lol:
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Has to be said that Hostgator customer service has been great when I've dealt with them, which has been about once every two years for whatever reason.
With any luck my issue will be down to me/my account rather that the actual hosting.
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at least for Wordpress its not as simple as that. You can duplicate your Joomla site in a click using Akeeba backup.
I've migrated a multitude of wordpress sites in the last 3/4 years, and it is that easy. either with a backup plugin or mysql dump or with a phpmyadmin dump. someone is setting your wp sites up wrong.
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The point is you either need a plugin to do backups or you need to know how to correctly perform an SQL dump and import - that's not obvious to some people right away. The fact that zpyder is asking in the first place suggests he doesn't know these things.
I'm grandma and I am sucking eggs!
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I'd say my level of knowledge is such that I don't know what to do, but if someone says "do x and y" I know enough to find out how to do that and to do it :)
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'Just dump it and import it' isn't quite accurate, you will probably have to replace a lot of relative paths in the SQL dump, at least for Wordpress its not as simple as that. You can duplicate your Joomla site in a click using Akeeba backup.
because im feeling pedantic.
'probably' - so youre not sure. then keep schtum and let those that are speak.
'at least for wordpress' - you're wrong, but you don't like the fact.
'joomla' - has he got a joomla site?
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Don't turn argumentative just for the sake of it ::)
"Probably" does not mean I'm unsure, it means there are other cicumstances involved. It depends entirely what plugins you have installed and whether they are smart enough to utilise the directories defined in Wordpress, or perhaps they need an absolute path relative to the webserver home directory? There's a number of instances where I've had to change the paths in the SQL dump with a find/replace to woraround some plugin or suchlike that didn't behave well following a server move.
Maybe you're just so used to using a webhost that offers one click installations and changes your nappy that you've never had to use the official moving guide in the codex (http://codex.wordpress.org/Moving_WordPress) (also the number one result on Google for 'wordpress migration' as it happens). Or maybe you're new to Wordpress and have never had to work with older versions.
In any case, the fact that I didn't state absolutely positively you MUST should have been a dead giveaway to these obvious facts, even for a self-proclaimed pedant. Perhaps you don't do much with your Wordpress installations, but I have worked with Wordpress for a long time and with a multitude of plugins, so please don't categorically talk about things you either don't fully appreciate or are ignorant to.
Still neither of you have indicated where this magical 'move my site for me' feature is in Wordpress. When you do I'll eat my hat.
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'joomla' - has he got a joomla site?
I do indeed, it is mentioned in my initial copied in quote, that I have both Joomla and Wordpress sites installed.
Has to be said, Nigel has helped me out a couple of times with some Wordpress issues over the years, I'd happily say I feel he knows what he's talking about.</flame fanning>
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be high and mighty, just share potentially helpful advice as I remember how easy it was to get stuck on simple things when I first started out. I'm not trying to tread on toes either, just expanding on what you guys are saying by pointing out there can be potential problems. If a host has a one-click copy option that's great, but not all of them do and its ignorant to suggest that a single case scenario is always going to be correct.
But its a bit insulting as a professional web designer (who has just obtained a permanent position as a frontend developer role for a large national company) to be told "keep shtum" or that you don't know what you're talking about when you've developed bespoke themes and plugins as well as migrated sites across all sorts of LAMP platforms.
I doubt this advice is even going to be needed now anyway from the sounds of it, which is good as its saving you a lot of hassle if so. :thumbup:
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alright, keep sctum was the wrong thing to say. i apologise, it was rude.
but i stand by the fact that in my experience, of wordpress since v3 came out, over multiple decent sized (but only ever small businesses) websites, that wordpress rarely needs you to enter the sql database to edit paths.
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:cheers: I actually edit the db out of habit now, just to be safe. It's likely that in most instances you are right and it is just the choice of plugins I've been working with.
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Well I've sorted the email out, and enabled compression on the server. Using GTMetrix, the rating went from F to B when I enabled the compression.
http://gtmetrix.com/reports/www.microphoto.co.uk/JfI4Rs5Q
Things are still pretty sluggish though. I'm assuming if I were to disable all my plugins, and test the site, that if a plugin were responsible the change should be instant, and not have any form of delay before any difference is noticed?
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Which site is it that's slow? I'll take a look and see if there's anything obvious.
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Well thinking about it with a fresh brain this morning...
zpyder.co.uk is a joomla site and is fast enough and behaves as you would expect.
Microphoto would take about 5-7 seconds to load a page, both front end and admin, so I assume it's a wordpress issue.
Just deleted all my deactivated plugins, and disabled all the others. Everything ran fast enough I'd say.
Started to reactivate plugins, got bored, reactivated them all, and it's still pretty fast. Can a duff plugin slow a site down even if it's not active?
EDIT
Having said that, it does seem to be slowing down a bit now... Try viewing a few different species on microphoto and the other pages and tell me how fast it is for you?
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Well, I think it might have been one of these:
NextGEN Gallery
Regenerate thumbnails
Ultimate CMS
Flickr Embed
Deactivated those and it seems to have sped up again. Thing with them though is that I think I installed those plugins a while back when I was trying to speed things up :|
Maybe the email thing slowed stuff down, so I installed plugins to speed up, not knowing that they weren't helping until I sorted the email problem.
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It's not super fast, the slow speed seems to be response time from the server though. The best thing you could do is to install a cache plugin like WP Super Cache or W3 Total Cache, this will dramatically improve site speed as it will load the pages as pure html from cache, which is always good for google rank.
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Already have WP Super cache installed :(
Main thing is it's faster than it was.
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It must be the server response time then. It might be worth chasing it up again with the hosts and see if they think it's all running correctly now.
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I would have thought that compression would slow the site down further. You're asking the server to compress its http responses on the fly.
Flickr plugin is what I'd point the finger at too, as that sounds like it goes and grabs from an external site before updating. Only takes some dodgy JavaScript ajax call and your site is held up, yeah its meant to be asynchronous but its not if its done badly.
Could also be throttled if using api keys.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
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Curiosity... Do a tcpping and a tcptraceroute to your site. Just wondering if its the hoster or the path to it or something else.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
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the pages themselves seem fast to load, its waiting for a response from the server that is taking time, so M3ta7h3ad's idea is pretty good one doing a traceroute to see where its slow.
Tracing route to microphoto.co.uk [192.254.235.203]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 71 ms 99 ms 99 ms dsldevice.lan [192.168.1.254]
2 23 ms 23 ms 22 ms lo0-central10.pcl-ag03.plus.net [195.166.128.184
]
3 23 ms 27 ms 22 ms link-a-central10.pcl-gw01.plus.net [212.159.2.16
8]
4 23 ms 23 ms 22 ms 200.core.access.plus.net [212.159.0.200]
5 26 ms 26 ms 25 ms ae2.pcl-cr02.plus.net [195.166.129.7]
6 24 ms 23 ms 24 ms ae1.ptw-cr02.plus.net [195.166.129.2]
7 23 ms 24 ms 22 ms 10gigabitethernet5-1.core1.lon1.he.net [5.57.80.
128]
8 104 ms 97 ms 100 ms 10gigabitethernet10-4.core1.nyc4.he.net [72.52.9
2.241]
9 118 ms 107 ms 149 ms 100gigabitethernet7-2.core1.chi1.he.net [184.105
.223.161]
10 145 ms 136 ms 139 ms 10gigabitethernet4-1.core1.den1.he.net [72.52.92
.234]
11 156 ms 148 ms 157 ms 10gigabitethernet4-2.core1.slc1.he.net [184.105.
222.154]
12 159 ms 158 ms 191 ms ace-data-centers-inc.10gigabitethernet1-4.core1.
slc1.he.net [66.160.133.118]
13 179 ms 148 ms 148 ms rtr-b.unifiedlayer.com [199.58.199.118]
14 149 ms 149 ms 152 ms 192.254.235.203
Trace complete.
Tracing route to www.google.co.uk [173.194.78.94]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 26 ms 99 ms 99 ms dsldevice.lan [192.168.1.254]
2 32 ms 22 ms 23 ms lo0-central10.pcl-ag03.plus.net [195.166.128.184
]
3 23 ms 23 ms 25 ms link-b-central10.pcl-gw02.plus.net [212.159.2.17
0]
4 46 ms 22 ms 22 ms 202.core.access.plus.net [212.159.0.202]
5 30 ms 22 ms 23 ms ae1.ptw-cr02.plus.net [195.166.129.2]
6 39 ms 22 ms 23 ms 72.14.223.32
7 23 ms 23 ms 23 ms 209.85.252.188
8 23 ms 24 ms 22 ms 209.85.253.92
9 53 ms 28 ms 28 ms 72.14.242.166
10 28 ms 36 ms 29 ms 209.85.252.83
11 * * * Request timed out.
12 29 ms 35 ms 29 ms wg-in-f94.1e100.net [173.194.78.94]
Trace complete.
Tracing route to www.tekforums.net [217.160.114.99]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 59 ms 99 ms 100 ms dsldevice.lan [192.168.1.254]
2 24 ms 24 ms 22 ms lo0-central10.pcl-ag03.plus.net [195.166.128.184
]
3 25 ms 25 ms 49 ms link-a-central10.pcl-gw01.plus.net [212.159.2.16
8]
4 43 ms 23 ms 70 ms 200.core.access.plus.net [212.159.0.200]
5 23 ms 25 ms 26 ms ae1.ptw-cr01.plus.net [195.166.129.0]
6 23 ms 23 ms 31 ms linx.bb-c.the.lon.gb.oneandone.net [195.66.224.9
8]
7 40 ms 36 ms 36 ms te-1-3.bb-c.bap.rhr.de.oneandone.net [212.227.12
0.49]
8 46 ms 38 ms 38 ms ae-4.bb-d.bs.kae.de.oneandone.net [212.227.122.7
]
9 41 ms 62 ms 38 ms ae-2.gw-dista-a.bs.kae.de.oneandone.net [212.227
.121.216]
10 38 ms 82 ms 38 ms vl-999.gw-ps11.bs.kae.de.oneandone.net [212.227.
125.13]
11 38 ms 37 ms 44 ms kundenserver.de [217.160.114.99]
Trace complete.
Compared to google and tek, the path to your host does seem slower, but not considerably enough to affect the page loading, its probably a combination of factors. I'd definitely talk to your host again.
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I've updated the ticket with that info, will see what they have to say. Have to admit that if I needed to move, the quality of spelling etc from the 1&1 rep is a bit lacklustre :/ I guess worst case scenario if I do move, I can always move back.
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Won't the traceroute be affected by location? I ran a traceroute from a site that had european and american start points, and the NY based host was more akin to the results you posted for Google and Tek. Where is 1&1 based?
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1&1 is european based (Germany I think from the .de) but I believe they now have a UK based datacentre, or at least UK DNS routing as the domains I most recently configured through them specified UK DNS entries.
If you want I'll host a copy of your sites for you temporarily so you can test it and see what you think, although that might give a skewed indication since I'm using their business level package which has more processing power allocated.
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Hello,
Here is an updated report on your currently installed applications:
Up-To-Date Applications:
========================================
Wordpress :: 3.6 :: /home2/zpyder/public_html/www.microphoto.co.uk
Wordpress :: 3.6 :: /home2/zpyder/public_html/freshairphotography.co.uk
Vulnerable Applications:
========================================
Drupal :: 6.16 :: /homefffffffffffffffffff
Joomla :: 1.5.23 :: /home2/fffffffffffffffffff
Joomla :: 1.5.23 :: /home2/zfffffffffffffff
Joomla :: 1.5.23 :: /home2/zffffffffffffffffffff
PHPList :: 2.10.13 :: /home2/zpfffffffffffffffffffff
Here is the caching mechanisms for the reported applications:
+++ WordPress caching report +++
/home2/zpyder/public_html/www.microphoto.co.uk
Caching Plugin: WP Super Cache (Active)
Caching Enabled: Yes Recommended
Browser Cache: No Yes
Rewrite Mode: No Yes
PHP Mode: Yes No
Legacy Mode: No No
Cache Users: Yes No
Compression: No Yes
Cache Expiry: 1800 s 3600 s
/home2/zpyder/public_html/freshairphotography.co.uk
No caching enabled.
+++ Joomla caching report +++
/home2/zpyder/public_html
Sessions: Database
Maint mode: No
Compression: No
Caching: No (file)
Cache Time: 15 min
SEF URLs: No SEF Suffix: No
Use Rewrite: No Use CAPTCHA: No
/home2/zpyder/public_html/topmouthgudgeon.co.uk
Sessions: Database
Maint mode: No
Compression: No
Caching: No (file)
Cache Time: 15 min
SEF URLs: No SEF Suffix: No
Use Rewrite: No Use CAPTCHA: No
/home2/zpyder/public_html/test
Sessions: Database
Maint mode: No
Compression: No
Caching: No (file)
Cache Time: 15 min
SEF URLs: No SEF Suffix: No
Use Rewrite: No Use CAPTCHA: No
None of the above applications are correctly caching, this will always impact your initial load times because the server has to execute your PHP code on every page load, caching allows the content that was generated to be loaded statically rather than processing the PHP code on every request. Please review our documentation on how to optimize these applications:
Optimizing WordPress: http://support.hostgator.com/articles/specialized-help/technical/wordpress/optimizing-wordpress
WP Super Cache: http://support.hostgator.com/articles/specialized-help/technical/wordpress/wp-super-cache-plugin
Optimizing Joomla: http://support.hostgator.com/articles/specialized-help/technical/optimizing-joomla
If you continue to experience poor performance, please tell us which domain or URL specifically is being problematic so that we can more finely investigate the cause of the performance hits.
Also, if you wish to remove an application that you installed via Fantastico you can just simply remove the directories and their respective MySQL databases. This can all be done through the cPanel interface. If you require further assistance with this please let us know.
If you have any other questions or concerns please let us know!
Best regards,
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Thanks for the offer Nige, though I'm not sure how practical that would be as microphoto is about 900 pages, and has a few gb of photos (1500 or so images) I think now.
Trying to tidy up the databases, I've noticed that microphotos database is 43mb. Isn't that quite big, or is that a product of having so many pages in wordpress?
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It's probably down to all the media references in the db moreso than the pages themselves making the db so big, its not excessively large.
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the clues might be in that quote up there.
1. you're running 6 different engines/instances out of one 'cheap and cheerful' hosting package. that can't be helping can it?
2. they say nothing is caching, which is quite telling. can you verify this statement?
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You should probably update your joomla installations to the latest version too, there's a lot of J!1.5 hacking going on, you really need to be on 1.5.26 or whatever the latest is to fix some of the security holes.
I'd say migrate to 2.5/3 but its a real PITA to do.
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Yeah, the issue is those sites are fine "as is" and I don't particularly want to have to fix anything that updating might break :)
Things are caching according to GTMetrix, though I hadn't enabled the settings that Hostgator recommends used in WP Supercache.
Still tweaking, but getting there slowly. I've deleted about 10 databases for installations that no longer exist.
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1. you're running 6 different engines/instances out of one 'cheap and cheerful' hosting package. that can't be helping can it?
I know I'm pushing what is reasonable to expect on shared hosting, but it doesn't mean I should just sit back and go "meh, it's shared hosting". I'm just trying to make sure that everything is running as well as I can get it, with what is available to me :)
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I don't think a handful of low traffic sites should be running slowly on shared hosting at all. Microphoto is the only one that potentially could because of the volume of content, but the caching working correctly should resolve that.
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How is microphoto behaving now to you guys? I've pretty much either updated or uninstalled any of the websites that were out of date, the remaining ones are all cached as per hostgators documentation.
There's still a brief pause from clicking a link to something happening, but it does seem to be loading a lot snappier to me now?
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It seems hit and miss for me, I'm guessing the pages that haven't been cached yet are the ones taking time to load.
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Might preload the cache I guess.
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I don't think a handful of low traffic sites should be running slowly on shared hosting at all.
is it still accurate to say that on cheap hosting they're not fighting each other, but the other instances of AMP on that physical server and they might be slowing because of that?
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Perhaps, but what I'm getting at more is that no shared hosting should really be that slow that you can't run a handful of small, low traffic sites with good response times, his biggest site is effectively just a photo gallery so shouldn't be slow. I don't think it's a very good host otherwise.
I upgraded the hosting package for tekforums because we seemed to be hitting a wall from the volume of db requests, the server hasn't dropped for any significant amount of time since. But I'm also running an eCommerce site and a bunch of other fairly low traffic sites on the hosting package, so I expected to have to upgrade at some point to keep things slick for everyone.