Author Topic: $700BILLION is not enough  (Read 3265 times)

  • Offline Beaker

  • Posts: 3,803
  • Hero Member
Re:$700BILLION is not enough
Reply #15 on: September 30, 2008, 02:23:55 AM
Quote from: neXus
Quote from: Beaker
This added to the fact that the Chinese banks have been instructed by the Chinese regulators to stop lending money to US banks means things wont look good right now in the US.  I know my mate who gets paid in USD will be rather grumpy about now.

And the UK banks are merging or doing deals to try and safeguard themselves and other EU banks thus causing more issues for the US banks thus in turn harming the economy etc which then reflects back on the rest of the world as well...

At end of the day some Rich people at fault will do time or loose money but most will come off scot free and the only people who will be harmed by it all are the lower end workers for the banks and companies and the normal Joe Public all of which did nothing wrong but trust the people you are supposed to be able to trust.


however I can see the European banks outlook.  They can secure their future, or they can float with the US banks and hope they come out OK in the end.  They are opting for the "safer" option, as would anyone.  Certain banks will be fine regardless, but TBH the US has pretty much done this to itself, and they themselves have managed to screw things up in conjunction with the politicos they have in their pockets.  I believe the initial rescue package was turned down because the republicans wanted to shoehorn some deregulation into the banks.  This isnt acceptable to the US at present.  The Democrats meanwhile know they have the US financial markets by the short-n-curlies, and they want some consumer protection to go with the rescue package.  Not unreasonable considering the way US banks and mortgage lenders have been behaving.  

On a personal note, Ive not been this glad to be renting ever, and if everything does go tits up I can always move back to the parents house for a few months if my landlord is forced to sell the house.  

  • Offline Serious

  • Posts: 14,467
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
Re:$700BILLION is not enough
Reply #16 on: September 30, 2008, 02:47:20 AM
Quote from: Beaker
This added to the fact that the Chinese banks have been instructed by the Chinese regulators to stop lending money to US banks means things wont look good right now in the US.  I know my mate who gets paid in USD will be rather grumpy about now.


That could mean really bad times for the US economy, they have been living on Chinese credit for the last few years.

  • Offline neXus

  • Posts: 8,749
  • Hero Member
Re:$700BILLION is not enough
Reply #17 on: September 30, 2008, 05:15:08 AM
It is one of the cool things about NZ, it is not hitting it as hard as EU and US, it is of course but not too bad.
Banks are a business so yeah they need to do secure their future but all the mess and temporary fixes everywhere are all coming out of the woodwork again. Everyone needs to sit down set some legal standpoints and boundaries and controls.

  • Offline neXus

  • Posts: 8,749
  • Hero Member
Re:$700BILLION is not enough
Reply #18 on: September 30, 2008, 08:23:47 AM

  • Offline Serious

  • Posts: 14,467
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
Re:$700BILLION is not enough
Reply #19 on: September 30, 2008, 15:47:10 PM
[EPIC FAIL!!!!]

Re:$700BILLION is not enough
Reply #20 on: September 30, 2008, 16:31:18 PM
Its not all the banks faults.
Interest rates had been too low, 1% in the US for years and 3% over here. The US government were putting pressure on the partially government run agency Fannie Mae (and later Freddie Mac) to provide mortgages to the masses, to do this they had to cleverly package the mortgages into bundles that could be re-sold. The big Ratings agencies (S&P, Moodys) then rated these bundles which were then sold onto the banks.
The banks and clients of the banks trusted the ratings of the rating companies (as the products were often so complex they could not be understood without in depth analysis).

Not really the banks faults. They were giving out mortgages to people who wanted them, given the current interest rates, under a government that wanted more people to own houses. The assets were then sold on based on their ratings that were too high.

Formerly sexytw

  • Offline Serious

  • Posts: 14,467
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
Re:$700BILLION is not enough
Reply #21 on: September 30, 2008, 16:45:17 PM
Quote
In the United States, mortgage lending specifically, the term "subprime" refers to loans that do not meet Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac guidelines. This is generally due to one of a combination of factors, including credit status of the borrower, income and job history, and income to mortgage payment ratio. The phrase also refers to bank loans taken on property that cannot be sold on the primary market, including loans on certain types of investment properties and to certain types of self-employed persons. Subprime lending encompasses a variety of credit instruments, including mortgages, car loans, and credit cards.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub_prime

Sub prime is the area that went rotten for the US, nothing to do with either Fannie May or Freddie Mac. If either the US or UK governments had wanted to shove interest rates up it would have been easy to do so.

[edit] New Scientist on what happened http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19926754.200 [/edit]

  • Offline Dave

  • Posts: 3,467
  • Hero Member
Re:$700BILLION is not enough
Reply #22 on: October 01, 2008, 00:58:13 AM
Quote from: Beaker
Quote from: Dave
Theyre not borrowing anything - theyre selling assets to the govt (securitized debt) which is currently illiquid.


So they are selling debts to the government, that are quite likely uncollectable?  e.g.  The banks are selling the sh*tty debts that they saddled themselves with in the 1st place.  hardly secure are they at this point?  Selling the government debts that are quite likely to default, or are already defaulted?  or are the government not allowing them to do that, and only taking over "good" debt?


Imagine there are some factories where you could get some good meat and bad meat - if you wanted to take a risk you could buy the bad meat if you didnt you could buy the good meat. Now imagine that the factories started selling sausages mostly comprised of good meat but also containing a bit of bad meat - they rated these as being as good as the good meat as there was only a little bit of bad meat in them. Now imagine certain batches of the bad meat got a little bit too bad - suddenly people dont want the sausages as much any more and are panicking that the people they used to trade sausages with might have more bad meat than they are letting on. Despite the fact that there is still a heck of a lot of good meat out there because its all a bit mixed up no one really wants to trade in sausages.

The govt wants to buy the debt - no it isnt all likely to be uncollectable, that would be silly - there is actually a pretty good chance that the US govt will make some money out of the deal simply because they can sit on it all till the markets recover - remember these securitized loans are assets and theyd be picking them up pretty cheaply. The main point is that none of the banks know how badly affected the other banks are so no one wants to lend any money to each other - basically, if nothing is done, this could get very serious as credit becomes less available and banks are more reluctant to do business with each other well all suffer. Allowing banks to sell off these assets to the govt will reduce a lot of the uncertainty.

  • Offline Serious

  • Posts: 14,467
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
Re:$700BILLION is not enough
Reply #23 on: October 02, 2008, 01:46:30 AM

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.