Author Topic: Hypothetic Europe  (Read 1395 times)

  • Offline Sam

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Hypothetic Europe
on: March 24, 2008, 01:20:42 AM
Im a big supporter of a federal Europe, which I know many of you are not.
However if you were given the task of being asked to draw up how the system of Government would work for a new United States of Europe how would you do it.

Hypothetic Europe
Reply #1 on: March 24, 2008, 01:33:29 AM
Take all decisions about the future of europe away from the politicians.

Majority have vested interests with business links that generally leads to a great deal for the old boys network but a crap deal for the average joe.

Just look at government contracts, handed out to the same companies time and time again, even though they either fail or time/budget over run massively.

Europe as a whole will never work, there is too drastic a difference between certain areas, with UK, Scandanavia, Central Europe, Eastern Europe and now bordering on Middle East/Asia.

There is as much chance of a unified europe as much as there is a unified planet.

I would love to see it happen, would make for a more stable structure and a nice unified front to the larger super powers, but it just is not feasible.

  • Offline Sam

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Hypothetic Europe
Reply #2 on: March 24, 2008, 01:44:49 AM
Theres actually more divide in the US than there is in Europe. Its amazing the different attitudes in Texas to PA.
I suppose tho they have a common love of being American whereas we dont think of ourselves as European.

  • Offline Serious

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Re:Hypothetic Europe
Reply #3 on: March 24, 2008, 02:00:05 AM
Unfortunately I agree with the Irish farmer in the joke, I certainly wouldnt start here. There is no way you are going to get people to agree on a USE.

Simplification of the present system may help though, and getting governments to be realistic on things would also help, especially those like the French. Note Im not getting at the French population here, theyre good enough, but their politicians?  :puke:

  • Offline Sam

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Hypothetic Europe
Reply #4 on: March 24, 2008, 02:18:38 AM
I didnt intend this as a debate on if its viable. Lets assume it is. Lets assume everyone is committed to the idea of a USE. Then simply, how do we formulate the govenment.

Its a similar question to something I am doing in American History at the moment in the post revolutionary war.

  • Offline zpyder

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Re:Hypothetic Europe
Reply #5 on: March 24, 2008, 09:49:41 AM
It would need to be more forceful and predictable than it is at the moment. So in effect things like planning applications, where you apply to local authority, they accept or reject, and you appeal to them and maybe go up to judicial review, need to be the kind of thing in the USE. Yeah there are european courts, but theyre pretty inaccessible to joe public except in landmark cases.

The problem with creating a USE is the wide variety of local/geographic features found in some states and not the others. Things like the Water Framework Directive apply more to coastal states than landlocked ones etc. So whatever policy is drawn up needs to retain some flexibility whilst being firm enough to bind the states together.

And a dual currency perhaps. Totally unpractical but its maybe a better way of getting countries like ours that dont want to adopt the euro, to use it more. This would just be taking the responsibility to exchange euros for local currency away from visitors and giving it to the shops and businesses.

Those are a few things maybe, I should have more having had 3 years of law which detailed quite a bit on the EU front, but its early and law wasnt exactly my cup of tea...

Hypothetic Europe
Reply #6 on: March 24, 2008, 10:54:19 AM
Quote from: Sam
Im a big supporter of a federal Europe, which I know many of you are not.
However if you were given the task of being asked to draw up how the system of Government would work for a new United States of Europe how would you do it.


European goverment is more corrupt than ours.

i dont want some spik, wop, kraut making laws for a country they dont understand.

  • Offline Sam

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Re:Hypothetic Europe
Reply #7 on: March 24, 2008, 22:05:56 PM
Quote from: zpyder
It would need to be more forceful and predictable than it is at the moment. So in effect things like planning applications, where you apply to local authority, they accept or reject, and you appeal to them and maybe go up to judicial review, need to be the kind of thing in the USE. Yeah there are european courts, but theyre pretty inaccessible to joe public except in landmark cases.

The problem with creating a USE is the wide variety of local/geographic features found in some states and not the others. Things like the Water Framework Directive apply more to coastal states than landlocked ones etc. So whatever policy is drawn up needs to retain some flexibility whilst being firm enough to bind the states together.

And a dual currency perhaps. Totally unpractical but its maybe a better way of getting countries like ours that dont want to adopt the euro, to use it more. This would just be taking the responsibility to exchange euros for local currency away from visitors and giving it to the shops and businesses.

Those are a few things maybe, I should have more having had 3 years of law which detailed quite a bit on the EU front, but its early and law wasnt exactly my cup of tea...


Whos to say those things need to be run at the Federal level. Like here the states have a massive degree of autonomy.

  • Offline Serious

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Re:Hypothetic Europe
Reply #8 on: March 24, 2008, 22:31:40 PM
The whole point is the EU was intended and started as an economic enterprise, it included lots of little things that, perhaps with hindsight, are better off being handled in their contry of origin. The issue now is that changing it to a political one is going to take a massive shift in direction. Local governments would have to give up a huge wodge of their law writing power to a centralised government and, hopefully, at the same time reclaim a load of lower stuff. The whole direction of the EU would need to change from laws on bananas and financing farming to handling Europewide law. There is also the issue of realigning the governments, so far most have been remarkably efficient at ignoring any law coming out of the EU.

Then again, perhaps the first move should be to stop the EU moving back and forwards every month between Brussels and Strasbourg. Its a complete waste of time and otherwise purely a posing pouch issue brought up by the French. Or perhaps they should move to every country for a week and go completely around all participating nations?

There is also the issue that the American Federal government has *limited* ability to push irrelevant issues onto the states, in some ways their autonomy is higher than that of the UK now.

Want a not too bent banana? :gag:

  • Offline Mark

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Re:Hypothetic Europe
Reply #9 on: March 25, 2008, 12:50:58 PM
It would work the same way as anywhere else

The richest would have the most say.


  • Offline Alien8

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Re:Hypothetic Europe
Reply #10 on: April 04, 2008, 01:46:21 AM
bit rough but builds a rough system


current independent legal and political systems remain the same in member states, but change prime minister or countrys equivalent to domestic policys only.

each country elect a named person (1 candidate per party + independents), elected directly by populace to a council serve 4 years

council member vote 1 per member in a forum, no vetos
end of first year council member vote to elect a leader, country cant have 2  leaderships in a row
leader rules for 48 months then 12 more as an advisor to aid transition to next leader (takes leaders term to 5 years, 4th year vote only valid if council vote tied 5th year cant vote on council)

leader no greater in power than council members except in times of war or when head of state required (G8 style councils)
council votes on all external affairs
council elects  secretarys of x for international policys
council elects  secretarys of x for federal policys.

establish courts for ultimate appeal etc formed of chief judge elected by Judicial peers 1 per member state, each case sat by 3 chief judges
defence controlled by member states unless in wartime, them head of member states defence form war office under direction of said elected council and secretarys

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