Author Topic: Apple sues Apple and Apple might win :o (Read 8774 times)

Beaker · **Reply #30 on:** March 30, 2006, 21:03:18 PM

Re:Apple sues Apple and Apple might win :o

Reply #30 on: March 30, 2006, 21:03:18 PM

Apple Records sued Apple Computer years ago, Apple computer agreed not to get involved in _any_ way with the music business, while apple records agreed they would not enter the computer business.

It actually got to court IIRC and Apple Computer agreed to the terms that APple Records put forward. Initially Apple record wanted them to stop using the brand completeley, but they agreed that as long as neither party entered the others business there was no further case to answer. IIRC Apple records got a chucnk of money as well at the same time.

Serious · **Reply #31 on:** March 30, 2006, 21:29:11 PM

Re:Apple sues Apple and Apple might win :o

Reply #31 on: March 30, 2006, 21:29:11 PM

Quote from: Dave

serious it isnt quite as simple as that

saying the deal was on music is vague rubbish & meaningless

apple corps dont sell music online so no every penny going to apple is not a penny lost by apple corps - dont be so naive it is a money grabbing opportunity that they think is worth persuing becuase then may have a chance of winning depending on the contract involved - it has got nothing to do with a loss of revenue on the part of apple corps.

No, there was a precise agreement, Apple computers broke it before and had to pay Ã‚Â£17 million ($30 million). now they have broken it again so they have to pay more money in damages.

It doesnt matter how Apple Corps sells their music its how the agreement was produced, there was no differentiation in format so selling it as a music file across the web is equally against the agreement. Apple Computers *know* they are in the wrong.

Quote from: Sweenster

Apple is a big and widely known trademark and the use of their logo on the itunes site is totally valid as it is part of their company. To say that is trying to cash in off a relatively small company in comparison, which i imagine alot fewer people know of its existance is farcical.

Its a case that Apple have agreed to not do something and then they went ahead and did it, its a moral issue and not about losses.

Dave · **Reply #32 on:** March 30, 2006, 23:06:40 PM

Re:Apple sues Apple and Apple might win :o

Reply #32 on: March 30, 2006, 23:06:40 PM

Quote from: Serious

No, there was a precise agreement, Apple computers broke it before and had to pay Ã‚Â£17 million ($30 million). now they have broken it again so they have to pay more money in damages.

It doesnt matter how Apple Corps sells their music its how the agreement was produced, there was no differentiation in format so selling it as a music file across the web is equally against the agreement. Apple Computers *know* they are in the wrong.

LOL - so weve gone from the agreement was about music to there was a precise agreement - ok then serious which bit of this agreement was broken then? what exactly did this precise agreement contain? - I doubt very much there is anything precise or clear cut about this case though what is fairly certina is that apple corps are money grabbing.

Serious · **Reply #33 on:** March 30, 2006, 23:59:04 PM

Re:Apple sues Apple and Apple might win :o

Reply #33 on: March 30, 2006, 23:59:04 PM

All companies are money grabbing, some more than others.

and if you want specifics look them up yourself, its easy enough to google.

Dave · **Reply #34 on:** March 31, 2006, 00:14:50 AM

Re:Apple sues Apple and Apple might win :o

Reply #34 on: March 31, 2006, 00:14:50 AM

Im asking you which specific bit of the agreement has actually been breached - you said:

Quote

No, there was a precise agreement, Apple computers broke it before and had to pay Ã‚Â£17 million ($30 million). now they have broken it again so they have to pay more money in damages.

Im asking you to quote the actual precise agreement that they have breeched with the iTunes service & explain exactly what they have done to breech it? - I dont think you can which is why I think your statement above is complete rubbish.

You cant say for sure that they have broken it as you dont actually know what the agreement contains.

My argument however is that apple corps is just money grabbing simply because they can & iTunes isnt affecting thier business at all.

Beaker · **Reply #35 on:** March 31, 2006, 08:31:34 AM

Re:Apple sues Apple and Apple might win :o

Reply #35 on: March 31, 2006, 08:31:34 AM

Quote from: Dave

You cant say for sure that they have broken it as you dont actually know what the agreement contains.

apart from the bit where Apple computer agreed many years back to not ship computers with advanced sound capability, and not become directly involved with the music business?

I think iTunes would class as directly involved with the music business, wouldnt you?

Christopher Monkey · **Reply #36 on:** March 31, 2006, 09:17:51 AM

Apple sues Apple and Apple might win :o

Reply #36 on: March 31, 2006, 09:17:51 AM

Yes, i would!

brummie · **Reply #37 on:** March 31, 2006, 10:57:15 AM

Re:Apple sues Apple and Apple might win :o

Reply #37 on: March 31, 2006, 10:57:15 AM

I bet Dave wont

Dave · **Reply #38 on:** March 31, 2006, 15:38:59 PM

Re:Apple sues Apple and Apple might win :o

Reply #38 on: March 31, 2006, 15:38:59 PM

I do wish people would stop getting brainwashed by the media and start thinking for themselves. Yes we all know there was an agreement, we all know it was to do with music. What we cant say for sure is whether it has been broken or not. My position is that apple corps is simply money grabbing whether the agreement has been broken or not yet we have a bunch of people who are convinced already that the agreement has been broken without even knowing what the agreement covered.

Quote from: brummie

Apple (computers) signed a deal years ago and now they have broken it.

Quote from: Mongoose

Apple Computer have violated the legally binding agreement with Apple Corps, hence they are guilty of an offence,numbers)

Quote from: Serious

No, there was a precise agreement, Apple computers broke it before and had to pay Ã‚Â£17 million ($30 million). now they have broken it again so they have to pay more money in damages.

So without posting vague rubbish, links to general stories or speculation can any of you actually state which part of the agreement was actually broken or are we going to just have more vague drivel along the lines of the agreement was about music and iTunes is to do with music so it must have been broken! We know the agreement was to do with the music business however agreements arent drawn up on scraps of paper saying "we agree to have nowt to do with music & stuff innit" what exactly did they agree to & how was it broken? Can one of you people actually explain this? (back it up please dont just post the same rubbish that has been posted already)

Dave · **Reply #39 on:** March 31, 2006, 16:14:53 PM

Re:Apple sues Apple and Apple might win :o

Reply #39 on: March 31, 2006, 16:14:53 PM

Quote from: Beaker

apart from the bit where Apple computer agreed many years back to not ship computers with advanced sound capability, and not become directly involved with the music business?

I think iTunes would class as directly involved with the music business, wouldnt you?

stop being so obtuse - you wont get a legal agreement saying we agree to not be directly involved in the music business

they will have agreed not to take part in specific activities - whether or not iTunes is covered by the agreement is for the court to decide because strangly enough electronic media wasnt widly distributed via the internet at the time of thier last agreement.

Beaker · **Reply #40 on:** March 31, 2006, 17:14:58 PM

Re:Apple sues Apple and Apple might win :o

Reply #40 on: March 31, 2006, 17:14:58 PM

Quote from: Dave

stop being so obtuse - you wont get a legal agreement saying we agree to not be directly involved in the music business
Quote

that was _exactly_ what they got. Apple Corp agreed not to pursue Apple Computer any further if they agreed to terms as laid down by Apple Corp. Apple agreed to the terms, and included in there was that Apple Comp would not get involved in Producing, Licencing or Distributing music without the express permission of Apple Corp.

Dave · **Reply #41 on:** March 31, 2006, 17:19:32 PM

Re:Apple sues Apple and Apple might win :o

Reply #41 on: March 31, 2006, 17:19:32 PM

Quote from: Beaker

that was _exactly_ what they got.

prove it then

Beaker · **Reply #42 on:** March 31, 2006, 19:12:10 PM

Re:Apple sues Apple and Apple might win :o

Reply #42 on: March 31, 2006, 19:12:10 PM

Quote from: Dave

Quote from: Beaker
that was _exactly_ what they got.

prove it then

we have this from the 2004 High Court Rulings tha appplies directly the the present case. http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/judgmentsfiles/j2468/apple-v-apple.htm

this referencing both the 1991 and current rulings
http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?newsid=8012

sometimes i like The Guardians Archiving Fetish
http://www.guardian.co.uk/thebeatles/story/0,11212,606522,00.html

various other sources, but Apple Corps reserved the right to music distribution. I remeber it at the time, i was keeping up to date with it because i was a long standing apple user.

edit: there is also the little issue of Trade Mark Law. If two companies use the same name or trademark, yet do not trade in the same field there is no issue, however if they do trade in the same field then the person using the trademark in that field the longest has prior claim, therefore the right to use it.

Examples of this are scattered around all over the place. For example I run a website called "prestone", it concerns itself with the local music scene around Preston (my home town). Here is a US Company called Prestone, they sell antfreeze and car accessories. Now as long as i dont enter their market im perfectly fine from a legal standpoint, and conversely as long as they dont enter mine they are fine from a legal standpoint. Its trademarks and patents law defining areas of business.

Sara · **Reply #43 on:** March 31, 2006, 19:47:18 PM

Re:Apple sues Apple and Apple might win :o

Reply #43 on: March 31, 2006, 19:47:18 PM

A nice short version on El Reg:

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/03/31/apple_vs_apple_day_two/

Dave · **Reply #44 on:** March 31, 2006, 20:13:45 PM

Re:Apple sues Apple and Apple might win :o

Reply #44 on: March 31, 2006, 20:13:45 PM

Quote from: Dave

So without posting vague rubbish, links to general stories or speculation can any of you actually state which part of the agreement was actually broken or are we going to just have more vague drivel along the lines of the agreement was about music and iTunes is to do with music so it must have been broken!

Is anyone going to actually state how they can say for sure that the agreement has been broken by apple computers or are we just going to get more links giving the outline of the case?

The end of the above link posted by sara pretty much sums up my understanding of the case - one side is arguing that they havent specifically breached the agreement the other side is arguing that the principle of the agreement has been breached. - Whether it has or not has yet to be decided in the high court.

for example apple computers is covered for

Quote

, data transmission services, broadcasting services, telecommunications services;

So will any of the people who are so certian that the agreement has been breached actually be able to back up their claim? or are you all just speculating? Im not saying it has or hasnt - what I am saying is that if you believe it has on the basis of a few media reports & the fact that the agreement was to do with music & iTunes is to do with music then you are pretty naive at best. They wouldnt go as far as a case in the high court if both sides didnt think they had a good chance of winning.

News:

Author Topic: Apple sues Apple and Apple might win :o (Read 8774 times)