Author Topic: Ye gods, chaos lords, quantum mechanics.....  (Read 371 times)

  • Offline Serious

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Ye gods, chaos lords, quantum mechanics.....
on: October 21, 2020, 22:02:40 PM
I gave a friend a copy of one of my books to read. Apparently they liked it but their preference is fantasy rather than sci-fi. So, ostensibly for her but really because I'm incredibly bored and am having difficulty getting engaged in anything else at the moment I pulled out one of my book stubs. Something that I had started, got a couple of thousand words into but then abandoned.

Idea, produce a ***SIMPLE*** blat, blat spell based story, with the option of some modern and future tech left open. That was easy, colony ship arrives at planet after decades of traveling through space, sets up colony of millions of people. Leaves, or in this case cannot get back because the colony world, and it's sun, has vanished into a bubble, a pocket universe split off from our present one.

That allowed everything I wanted, limited access to modern and future technology up to the point the bubble happened. Modern production screwed as it's been destroyed by earthquakes, volcanoes, floods, asteroids, other disasters. They can make steel, and use trees for wood but gunpowder production is extremely limited and medieval weaponry has become the normal.

Due to the magic requirement I introduced an underlying structure, this is where the gods and chaos lords exist, essentially they are the different aspects of the same thing. Some of them want to pull the bubble down further, others want to push it up again and the vast majority are just looking on in interest. So great, I had a workable system. Then Quantum stuck it's UNWELCOME nose in the door and said hi. That meant the number of gods/chaos lords was indeterminate, and at the worst end plausibly infinite, or at least that great it didn't matter.

Then the chaos realm, to give it a name, changed, it had a sort of 'door' to the bubble for things, like magic, to go through. Of course once you have one door it's like opening an infinitely long tube of crisps from a well known maker, once you pop, you can't stop... There has to be a indeterminate and potentially unlimited number of doors, to an indeterminate and potentially unlimited number of universes/bubbles.

I'm now in "hiding" having not opened the word processor I'm using in several hours. What was "easy" several days ago had turned into a physics and ethical nightmare. Instead of climate change deniers I have dragon existence deniers. The ethics of enchanting a weapon (was simple, now goddam horrid).

Excuse me while I go get a drink (alcoholic)...

  • Offline neXus

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Re: Ye gods, chaos lords, quantum mechanics.....
Reply #1 on: October 22, 2020, 02:10:42 AM
Interesting!


Some food for thought for you that may or may not use....


- Magic in the past or in stories is often considered "Magic" but it is simply more advanced technology that people do not understand. Back in the 80's a lot of electronics companies even used that phrase "As if by magic" often in adverts.


-  A lot of stories have faith and belief very much linked to gods existence and their power. That Black and white game was all about getting follows either by them loving you or scared of you but either case worshiping you to give you more power. All the greek god stories are that they lost power as a result of people worshipping them less.

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Re: Ye gods, chaos lords, quantum mechanics.....
Reply #2 on: October 22, 2020, 09:14:43 AM
I await the day I see one of your works come up on the Amazon Kindle freebies/First Reads  :)

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Re: Ye gods, chaos lords, quantum mechanics.....
Reply #3 on: October 22, 2020, 19:44:47 PM
There are gods and chaos lords in it, effectively the same thing separated by how they act. The gods gain power by harvesting it from the depths of chaos, but belief from humans can increase that. Then a lot of things in this novel depend on belief. Then the chaos lords are just as likely to gift their believers with physical mutations that usually aid them in some way. Some humans were gifted with chlorophyll in their skin, enabling them to hide better, and stronger muscles. That gets plausible orcs in with just minor changes.

As they came on a spaceship their knowledge of how technology works is still decent, even if they are having issues developing it due to war.

I try to create characters with a decently fleshed  out personality, what they will do willingly, what they might do if forced and what they would never do. I love turning conventional story ideas on their heads, and seeing what happens.

One of the main characters is a very old vampire, although due to the effects of magic she actually looks about thirty. Vampires in this story have rather different attitudes to most so forget Dracula. Their powers are manipulation of the mind, but they use it very selectively. People actually like the vampires as members of society and respect them, so much so they are willing to donate blood. That means the vampires don't have to bite, kill or infect anyone to survive - a symbiosis that means everyone benefits. Her official job is librarian, although the term covers a lot more than keeping books. Being librarian also means that she is the town teacher. Normally that would be a recipe for lots of dead children with bite marks on their necks, however, having been around so long she's taught people, their parents, grandparents, great grandparents so nobody has any concern with her teaching their children. They know that if anything happened she would try to protect the children, with her life if necessary.

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Re: Ye gods, chaos lords, quantum mechanics.....
Reply #4 on: October 22, 2020, 20:00:13 PM
I await the day I see one of your works come up on the Amazon Kindle freebies/First Reads  :)

That would be only if you can stand up to the humor. Snippet Tiny is a 'penciled in temporary name' because I haven't yet got one I like. It is also night so very little light to see by.

Walk, keep walking, it wasn’t like she was betraying him. Perhaps give him one last chance? “You know I’ve got a dragon claw knife?”

He laughed, “dragons don’t exist. They are things dumb people believe in. Others just go along with that idea.”

Kassia reached a big, fat, old oak tree by the drainage canal and leaned against the water side. She tried to sound just a bit as if his statement had been a revelation to her. “So dragons really don’t exist?”

“No, they can’t exist, just far too big, and the wings? Never be able to get one off the ground. Pure self..”

There was noise,the wind increased and then a huge gust blew Sariel right off the side of the canal into the water. Luckily the total depth of the canal was only two metres, and the water level a bit lower than that. He managed to stand up with the water barely reaching the top of his shoulders. Quickly wading back to the side he pulled himself out with some effort.

He wiped the remaining water from his face and threw some pond weed off his armour then looked at Kassia. “Stop laughing! What the hell was that?”
Kassia shrugged, “I’ve no idea. As you have so graciously told me about them it couldn’t have been a dragon. They don’t exist, do they?”

Tiny’s huge snout came out of the darkness. It seemed to barely touch his chest but he still flew backwards into the water again. “Nope, greater dragons definitely don’t exist, none of them.”

This time Kassia helped him out of the water. ”Why do you keep jumping into the canal?”

“But it’s that…” he managed before Tiny’s face approached him, her mouth split slightly and the tongue came out of the gap hitting him in the face. What followed was possibly the largest raspberry in the history of humanity. Sariel, barely standing on the edge of the canal fell back in.

Kassia pulled him half out the canal, “that what? There’s nothing here.”

Sariel coughed, “that dragon!”

“BUT DRAGONS OBVIOUSLY DON’T EXIST!” Tiny boomed. “Err, one second, gotta turn the page.”

“OK, I admit it, dragons obviously do exist. I now have undeniable evidence of it!”

Tiny turned away, as Kassia helped him onto his feet again. “Dragons exist.” he repeated between gasping.

“And don’t you forget it!” The tip of Tiny’s tail flicked, another loud splash followed. “Thug life! I really need some shades.”

This time Sariel didn’t even bother trying to get to the bank, he simply stood in the middle of the water and demanded, “how much of a grudge do dragons keep?”

“Dragons don’t keep grudges,” Kassia offered, ”at least not for that long. It’s just that she’s got a book. One hundred and one ways to punt a dragon denier into a canal. She wants to try all of them. Now can you come here so I can get you out again? We’re only up to, number five? Oh, Chaos Lords! Your face is a real picture.”

  • Offline neXus

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Re: Ye gods, chaos lords, quantum mechanics.....
Reply #5 on: October 23, 2020, 05:47:31 AM
There are gods and chaos lords in it, effectively the same thing separated by how they act. The gods gain power by harvesting it from the depths of chaos, but belief from humans can increase that. Then a lot of things in this novel depend on belief. Then the chaos lords are just as likely to gift their believers with physical mutations that usually aid them in some way. Some humans were gifted with chlorophyll in their skin, enabling them to hide better, and stronger muscles. That gets plausible orcs in with just minor changes.

As they came on a spaceship their knowledge of how technology works is still decent, even if they are having issues developing it due to war.

I try to create characters with a decently fleshed  out personality, what they will do willingly, what they might do if forced and what they would never do. I love turning conventional story ideas on their heads, and seeing what happens.

One of the main characters is a very old vampire, although due to the effects of magic she actually looks about thirty. Vampires in this story have rather different attitudes to most so forget Dracula. Their powers are manipulation of the mind, but they use it very selectively. People actually like the vampires as members of society and respect them, so much so they are willing to donate blood. That means the vampires don't have to bite, kill or infect anyone to survive - a symbiosis that means everyone benefits. Her official job is librarian, although the term covers a lot more than keeping books. Being librarian also means that she is the town teacher. Normally that would be a recipe for lots of dead children with bite marks on their necks, however, having been around so long she's taught people, their parents, grandparents, great grandparents so nobody has any concern with her teaching their children. They know that if anything happened she would try to protect the children, with her life if necessary.


I randomly thought of Highlander 2 - What the F was that plot about.
If you remember it kind of made out that immortals were Aliens and it was all just bizzare.

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Re: Ye gods, chaos lords, quantum mechanics.....
Reply #6 on: October 23, 2020, 09:23:11 AM

I randomly thought of Highlander 2 - What the F was that plot about.
If you remember it kind of made out that immortals were Aliens and it was all just bizzare.

Which is why I always try to leave openings, even if I finish up and answer as many questions as I can. My first book started with what I wanted the ending result to be. I then wrote to get there in a fairly convincing manner. That being 2001-2 I produced a story around a racially motivated geneticist. OK, tens of millions of people died horribly, billions were rendered infertile, but overall it was believable (more so with Trump and Boris, I hadn't really believed that my plot to corrupt the US presidential race could ever work).

The original Highlander film was actually closed at the end, there was no room for another film, which actually made it better. That meant that any follow on would have to break a lot of things, which is what happened. Admittedly it's not the only film like that, each of the Aliens series has done the same.

Another huge problem is getting the writers and directors of follow on films to produce something that relates to the original in other than title name and perhaps setting. Which seems to be where Game of Thrones went wrong at the end. For the early books they had the physical books to work from, which made the series great. Then during the last two the whole thing went pear shaped. The directors eventually seemed to realize how crap they were and shut the final series short. Had they done the right thing there would have been one season taking out the Night King and a second dealing with the Lannisters. Daenerys Targaryen supposedly going mad and destroying King's landing just didn't link with her concern about people just one season earlier.

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Re: Ye gods, chaos lords, quantum mechanics.....
Reply #7 on: October 26, 2020, 03:33:29 AM
I hate the Netflix movies with regards to this.
Netflix have been making some great things but they leave the endings in a strange place, never really finished, wrapped up but not, this strange limbo. Extraction had it's ending changed to be "Was he dead?" for that reason (not for what they said I think).


But it means.. "We could make another movie" and "We could turn this into a tv show" and it seems a mandate for movies.


The TV shows they produce they have changed the way they end after Sense8. They kind of lead to a season 2 but they also end now. A bit different to the movies but they finish in a way they could just not make another.


It kind of spoils it a bit these endings and its just super weird.

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Re: Ye gods, chaos lords, quantum mechanics.....
Reply #8 on: October 27, 2020, 10:05:40 AM
I tend to agree, some movies are a bit too blatant about leaving the end open, just in case. Problem being that this often just distracts from the film.

There have been literally dozens of Dracula movies, the vast majority ending with the Count dead again. Friday the 13th and similar films have the same issue.

Usually this type of series ends up quickly going down hill as they have used up most of the potential ideas in the initial film. Alien being a particularly notable occurrence as some have been entirely adequate but none of them really managed to meet the horror movie standard of the original. If Rebecca "Newt" Jorden had of survived onto the prison world it may have been more interesting as you not only have the aliens to contend with but what crimes the prisoners had committed comes into effect. Who does Ripley trust with her? Even if they were all safe just the potential would be enough.

Then writing for apparently young characters is extremely interesting, even if they are hundreds or thousands of years old and tip the scales at 113Kg (250lb), think American football player on steroids. Then there are only so many ways of blatting the obligatory pedo into oblivion.

For me though. even worse is writers producing scripts that have massive holes due to them not knowing what they are writing about, or what they want to put in is totally against 'canon' or realism but they just don't care.

Yes, Looking at Star Wars. Lots of other films and series. There are now people who critique sword fights and weapons in films.

I wonder if there could be a worse remake of the first one than with Jar Jar Binks replacing Luke Skywalker? Ideal 'horror' movie?

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Re: Ye gods, chaos lords, quantum mechanics.....
Reply #9 on: October 27, 2020, 22:55:39 PM
I think the biggest move as a writer for a book, movie or what ever is knowing when it is done. Even if it is crazy popular if you built to an end and it ended - Leave it be no matter what.

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Re: Ye gods, chaos lords, quantum mechanics.....
Reply #10 on: October 29, 2020, 15:56:26 PM
A lot of self contained movies do have that problem, but others, like Superman, James Bond and others have the potential to go on to many films. It has to be on an individual basis.

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Re: Ye gods, chaos lords, quantum mechanics.....
Reply #11 on: October 30, 2020, 00:08:00 AM
A lot of self contained movies do have that problem, but others, like Superman, James Bond and others have the potential to go on to many films. It has to be on an individual basis.
Those have a core character, back story. With that the character is there and you can create a variety of story lines, actors etc and it does not matter. You can create small arcs and it does not matter. This is actually rare in modern times - How many iconic strong characters like this exist int his day an age? Not many. Some close stuff like John Wick but that really can not go beyond a 4th movie for example and is very much Keano's character as well.

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Re: Ye gods, chaos lords, quantum mechanics.....
Reply #12 on: October 30, 2020, 02:23:12 AM
A lot of self contained movies do have that problem, but others, like Superman, James Bond and others have the potential to go on to many films. It has to be on an individual basis.
Those have a core character, back story. With that the character is there and you can create a variety of story lines, actors etc and it does not matter. You can create small arcs and it does not matter. This is actually rare in modern times - How many iconic strong characters like this exist int his day an age? Not many. Some close stuff like John Wick but that really can not go beyond a 4th movie for example and is very much Keano's character as well.
I think the problem is more that they run out of good script ideas. 1920s and 30s the majority of pictures were girl meets boy and fall in love, cowboy movies, or criminals. Scripts were repeated with little change.

Modern audiences tend to be far more spoilt. There are a lot more differing options to watch and it almost has to be perfect. Big budgets and incredible special effects do not count for much any more. To be honest big budgets might actually be the biggest problem as they mean it's easy to make a loss. Writers and directors stick to what they know has paid off in the past.

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