Author Topic: HTC Test Center (Read 6937 times)

M3ta7h3ad · **Reply #15 on:** November 24, 2012, 12:46:02 PM

HTC Test Center

Reply #15 on: November 24, 2012, 12:46:02 PM

Quote from: Clock'd 0Ne on November 24, 2012, 10:34:41 AM

The real problem is that they pay vastly over the odds for IT equipment and IT support staff who don't know their arse from their elbow. The people supplying them provide rubbish systems at excessive prices because they can get away with it.

Think you just insulted soopah there mate

Two of my friends are school it admins, ad rock is right, paid peanuts and worse yet they have a sh*t job where the computers are leased and any changes must be authorised and undertaken by their own technicians.

My mates are basically password reset monkeys.

Clock'd 0Ne · **Reply #16 on:** November 24, 2012, 13:26:32 PM

Re: HTC Test Center

Reply #16 on: November 24, 2012, 13:26:32 PM

Obviously I'm not talking about people like Nath, I meant the sort of contractors they get in to 'advise' on what expensive upgrades are needed from their company. IT staff in educational institutions themselves are underpaid for sure but most are useless to be fair.

IME its the admins that generally sit on the arses all day playing games for fairly decent money as they have nothing to do, but if your mates are not being paid well enough they've not landed cushty really and should think about walking!

I remember my old IT admin used to call me in to see the latest games running on his beefy server all the time, I don't remember ever seeing him doing any real work.

Last Edit: November 24, 2012, 13:29:01 PM by Clock'd 0Ne #187;

knighty · **Reply #17 on:** November 24, 2012, 13:48:30 PM

Re: HTC Test Center

Reply #17 on: November 24, 2012, 13:48:30 PM

Quote from: Clock'd 0Ne on November 24, 2012, 13:26:32 PM

I remember my old IT admin used to call me in to see the latest games running on his beefy server all the time, I don't remember ever seeing him doing any real work.

oh nige.... poor poor nige, molested by your old IT teacher

soopahfly · **Reply #18 on:** November 24, 2012, 16:37:56 PM

Re: HTC Test Center

Reply #18 on: November 24, 2012, 16:37:56 PM

Quote from: M3ta7h3ad on November 23, 2012, 12:54:45 PM

Quote from: Serious on November 23, 2012, 10:56:58 AM
I still use XP but by choice. I also have Windows 7 on a pc.

I suspect some schools are still using Windows 3.11 but paying their teachers a load of money.

Unfortunately the best tech doesn't always get priority, exam results do.

Er you are clearly someone not experienced with budgets. It is highly doubtful that staff pay comes out of the same budget as equipment costs.

And btw, my old school still makes use of BBC Micros because they have all of the necessary external equipment and software for them, and it works flawlessly.

It may run off of 5 1/4" floppies but a series of light gates and a timer is the same thing if its running in DOS or windows 8.

LOGO is LOGO, etc...

Pah, One school has the Windows versions of Logo, Grannys Garden and Podd

soopahfly · **Reply #19 on:** November 24, 2012, 16:43:39 PM

Re: HTC Test Center

Reply #19 on: November 24, 2012, 16:43:39 PM

Quote from: M3ta7h3ad on November 24, 2012, 12:46:02 PM

Quote from: Clock'd 0Ne on November 24, 2012, 10:34:41 AM
The real problem is that they pay vastly over the odds for IT equipment and IT support staff who don't know their arse from their elbow. The people supplying them provide rubbish systems at excessive prices because they can get away with it.

Think you just insulted soopah there mate Two of my friends are school it admins, ad rock is right, paid peanuts and worse yet they have a sh*t job where the computers are leased and any changes must be authorised and undertaken by their own technicians.

My mates are basically password reset monkeys.

LOL

The only bits I don't have complete access over on the school network is from the switch back to the router. That's looked after by the LEA. Everything else, Servers, desktops, AP's, IWB's are mine, bitches.

zpyder · **Reply #20 on:** November 24, 2012, 19:13:55 PM

Re: Re: HTC Test Center

Reply #20 on: November 24, 2012, 19:13:55 PM

Quote from: M3ta7h3ad on November 24, 2012, 12:44:42 PM

You can't exactly blame 100% of that on the IT department.

They will have likely been told that the leases or support contracts for the computers across the campus are being renewed and as such everything is getting upgraded.

Having some bespoke piece of software on really used in a specific field of science, f**k up and require re-licencing, etc... Well that's par for the course.

Now if it was MS Office that was screwing up or equally another "core" application available as part of the base build on your machines then fair enough, but your issue is just a typical issue you'll run into with projects in the millions, or billions of pounds.

well yes it is par for the course, but we can blame it on IT services as they were told at the start, leave the labs the f**k alone. I can understand it from the point of view that they need to make sure everything works on the updated network, but when we don't actually want or need the computers in the lab to be networked, they've gone and cost us a load of money that would have been better spent elsewhere, and haven't actually improved the system in the slightest.

When it comes to IT at uni, the technicians are hopeless beyond fixing general user profile issues. We're constantly trying to get administration rights for our instrument computers so we can actually apply updates. A few months ago we bought some software, got it installed and then needed to get it updated to talk to the instrument in question. The IT response was that the software hadn't been tested on their system and so they un installed the program till they tested it. We're still waiting and instead resorted to installing it on a laptop.

not to mention that about 1/3 of the new windows 7 machines have a bug in the bios resulting in the machines dying after a few weeks. It's a case of the it administration being rubbish, unreachable, and preventing the IT services from doing their job properly. pretty sure most of the technicians would do a better job if the people at the top let them

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

Serious · **Reply #21 on:** November 25, 2012, 13:08:07 PM

Re: HTC Test Center

Reply #21 on: November 25, 2012, 13:08:07 PM

Quote from: zpyder on November 24, 2012, 12:39:00 PM

Quote from: Clock'd 0Ne on November 24, 2012, 10:34:41 AM
The real problem is that they pay vastly over the odds for IT equipment and IT support staff who don't know their arse from their elbow. The people supplying them provide rubbish systems at excessive prices because they can get away with it.

So true. This summer the uni has upgraded all the computers to windows 7. In June or July IT services upgraded the computer running one of our analytical instruments...deleting the instrument software in the process. They only just got round to installing the software again a few weeks ago after the Science school had to REPURCHASE the software out of our own budget, only to discover that during the installation they had proceeded to delete the instruments chemical reference library. We're hoping in the next few weeks it'll be back up and running. Something that should have taken a day to do has taken months, and cost the school several thousand pounds when we already have a tight budget this year. It's the kind of thing that IT services should fork the bill for as we didn't want the computer updated in the first place, as already mentioned most instruments run on specific OS's just fine and don't need the latest hardware of software to run.

And of course you had back ups of all this important data, didn't you?

Bung a backup in and roll the system back, job done. Then kick the IT mongs ass out of the place.

M3ta7h3ad · **Reply #22 on:** November 25, 2012, 18:35:41 PM

HTC Test Center

Reply #22 on: November 25, 2012, 18:35:41 PM

Quote from: zpyder on November 24, 2012, 19:13:55 PM

Quote from: M3ta7h3ad on November 24, 2012, 12:44:42 PM

You can't exactly blame 100% of that on the IT department.

They will have likely been told that the leases or support contracts for the computers across the campus are being renewed and as such everything is getting upgraded.

Having some bespoke piece of software on really used in a specific field of science, f**k up and require re-licencing, etc... Well that's par for the course.

Now if it was MS Office that was screwing up or equally another "core" application available as part of the base build on your machines then fair enough, but your issue is just a typical issue you'll run into with projects in the millions, or billions of pounds.

well yes it is par for the course, but we can blame it on IT services as they were told at the start, leave the labs the f**k alone. I can understand it from the point of view that they need to make sure everything works on the updated network, but when we don't actually want or need the computers in the lab to be networked, they've gone and cost us a load of money that would have been better spent elsewhere, and haven't actually improved the system in the slightest.

When it comes to IT at uni, the technicians are hopeless beyond fixing general user profile issues. We're constantly trying to get administration rights for our instrument computers so we can actually apply updates. A few months ago we bought some software, got it installed and then needed to get it updated to talk to the instrument in question. The IT response was that the software hadn't been tested on their system and so they un installed the program till they tested it. We're still waiting and instead resorted to installing it on a laptop.

not to mention that about 1/3 of the new windows 7 machines have a bug in the bios resulting in the machines dying after a few weeks. It's a case of the it administration being rubbish, unreachable, and preventing the IT services from doing their job properly. pretty sure most of the technicians would do a better job if the people at the top let them

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

So from the IT guys point of view.

You want a bunch of unpatched, unmaintained and non-monitored machines running. No thanks, I think we'd like control over our assets. As for releasing untested software onto the base build, again no thanks you have no idea how it interferes with other core components.

In your first post you complain an install wiped your data, now with your most recent one you're complaining that they won't install an untested application. The irony should be slapping you across the face.

Clock'd 0Ne · **Reply #23 on:** November 25, 2012, 18:42:08 PM

Re: HTC Test Center

Reply #23 on: November 25, 2012, 18:42:08 PM

Let's be honest, it's not rocket science. You can debate un-maintained/un-monitored until you're blue in the face, but it's not hard to check or ask about software running on the machine before deciding to simply wipe everything for an upgrade. It's not the job of end users, that's what IT support is for in the first place. Lazy c**ts.

Dave · **Reply #24 on:** November 25, 2012, 18:48:23 PM

Re: HTC Test Center

Reply #24 on: November 25, 2012, 18:48:23 PM

Quote from: soopahfly on November 24, 2012, 16:37:56 PM

Pah, One school has the Windows versions of Logo, Grannys Garden and Podd

whoever wrote that game needs to be shot

M3ta7h3ad · **Reply #25 on:** November 25, 2012, 20:05:44 PM

HTC Test Center

Reply #25 on: November 25, 2012, 20:05:44 PM

Quote from: Clock'd 0Ne on November 25, 2012, 18:42:08 PM

Let's be honest, it's not rocket science. You can debate un-maintained/un-monitored until you're blue in the face, but it's not hard to check or ask about software running on the machine before deciding to simply wipe everything for an upgrade. It's not the job of end users, that's what IT support is for in the first place. Lazy c**ts.

As an IT support bod they shouldn't need to ask.

They should know. If users have installed bespoke apps on a workstation, that's not their fault, the aup and syops should forbid that anyway IMO, users should never have admin on a non-home machine.

"It's not hard to ask" I don't know the context of this upgrade but what if it was university wide? They need to ask 100's of departments what software they have installed on each of their computers? And who do they ask? The users they see using it on a Monday afternoon? Or the users of a different class on a Friday? Perhaps the department head? The department receptionist? All of the teaching staff? The research students? Teaching assistants?

Maybe, just maybe they look at their config management database and see that all the workstations in lab 1A are listed as standard class workstations and deploy that config, as opposed to the machines in lab 2B which are showing as scientific equipment workstations with licenced installs of acme blipblob v1.72 which have a pre-req of dx9, a non standard gpu and are used to operate the electron flibblestick.

Not lazy, just common sense.

Users will never understand, but the pain admins go through is so they have a smoother time. Perhaps in zpyders case they really are a bunch of Neanderthals, but I can't tell just from his posts as they all seem like the typical user moans that you get with most roll outs. 99% will have gone without a hitch but 1% will require more effort.

Clock'd 0Ne · **Reply #26 on:** November 25, 2012, 22:30:22 PM

Re: HTC Test Center

Reply #26 on: November 25, 2012, 22:30:22 PM

Obviously it's unfair of me to tar everyone with the same brush, I'm just going off my own experience of how these things tend to play out; it's not just admins after all, a lot of people lack common sense as you pointed it out to be, quite rightly.

From what zpyder says though, they were explicity told about this software and it seems little was done to prepare adequately or even attempt to fix the mess afterwards. Surely they should have backups in case it all goes pear shaped anyway?

M3ta7h3ad · **Reply #27 on:** November 26, 2012, 05:08:31 AM

HTC Test Center

Reply #27 on: November 26, 2012, 05:08:31 AM

Quote from: Clock'd 0Ne on November 25, 2012, 22:30:22 PM

Obviously it's unfair of me to tar everyone with the same brush, I'm just going off my own experience of how these things tend to play out; it's not just admins after all, a lot of people lack common sense as you pointed it out to be, quite rightly. From what zpyder says though, they were explicity told about this software and it seems little was done to prepare adequately or even attempt to fix the mess afterwards. Surely they should have backups in case it all goes pear shaped anyway?

Yep they should but its a bit difficult to backup if the machine is not hooked up to the network and the guys who use it are attempting to self administrate it.

Serious · **Reply #28 on:** November 26, 2012, 10:50:07 AM

Re: HTC Test Center

Reply #28 on: November 26, 2012, 10:50:07 AM

In the end, when told to leave the f**k alone, that's what they should do.

On the other hand people with zpyder's knowledge should be telling the scientist that they need to back up their computers regularly and store the backups in a safe place. A simple fire or a theft could do as much damage.

zpyder · **Reply #29 on:** November 26, 2012, 15:02:11 PM

Re: HTC Test Center

Reply #29 on: November 26, 2012, 15:02:11 PM

More context:

- Roll out is university wide (Going from XP machines to W7)
- Process had been in prep for about 12 months before the roll out, with IT asking each School/dept about assets, bespoke software etc
- Even had W7 test machines so we could ensure important software worked before the roll out
- First thing we said was "leave the labs in building X alone" with full justification (no networking, software running that cannot be updated etc)
- They were clearly told that most machines in the labs were running specific software that cost ££££ for those instruments. We don't need or want network access as we don't want students using facebook etc whilst in the labs
- Roll out ended up being 4 months behind due to all the issues they faced - this was fine, we'd rather a system arrive late that worked, than one that didn't work arrive on time
- Come roll out, they wipe the computers anyway.

We back up our data all the time, but when the software to run the data is removed and IT won't reinstall it, that backup becomes worthless. The IT services here essentially came along, removed the old XP machines, replaced with W7, and then scratched their heads as to why things didn't work, if they even bothered to check. All we can guess is that they had already binned the old computers by the time it got fed up the chain that we actually needed them for the instruments, and now the people at the top would rather a crap load of money be spent on new software to cover their mistake. Said people at the top being away on holiday for a few months during the whole W7 roll out, great management there...

I totally understand the need for IT to keep a tight lid on things on a general university scale, but when you have an instrumentation lab that does not need to be connected to the network, and as such doesn't cause a headache in that regards, why not let the laboratory technicians sort things out themselves. The people who actually know what the software does, how it does it, and why?

I should add that a lot of the instruments/software are pretty old (15+ years) - They run fine on the hardware and software, as such updating to W7 isn't/wasn't an option. The computers sole use is to run a single piece of software, they aren't shared machines etc.

News:

Author Topic: HTC Test Center (Read 6937 times)