Author Topic: Intelligent design  (Read 4040 times)

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  • Offline Goblin

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Intelligent design
Reply #15 on: October 12, 2009, 12:11:18 PM
Quote from: Chris H
You threw me off by describing yourself as an anti-theist, I assumed you were simply against all forms of theism no matter how accepting and peace loving they may be.

Well, I think that people are better off not believing in fairy stories so I enjoy debating the issue with people and trying to get them to think rationally, but I would never deny anyone the right to believe whatever they want in their own heads.

I am anti-theist in the same way that I am anti-flatearther, its a silly belief system so I will argue with those who do believe it.

I am also anti-theist in terms of organised religion (so perhaps anti-church would be better) because I think they are a dangerous force in the world, preying (ha) on the weak willed and vulnerable.

Quote from: Mongoose
I dont want to live in a country where a person cannot wave a banner above their head and declare that the world was produced from out of the nose of the great green arckleseizure if they want to. They have the right to say it, I have the right to ignore them.

If youre talking about people blowing stuff up, forcing others to marry against their will, etc then Im with you every step of the way, but you have to be very careful what you claim.

Absolutely, people can claim whatever they want. However, when churches get to dictate that its illegal for Tescos to open on a Sunday morning, that their religious doctrine *by law* must be presented to my daughter in a taxpayer funded school assembly, that evolution must be tempered by "intelligent design" (not in this country, yet), when the leader of a major world religion tells those most vulnerable that condoms *cause* AIDS, when the forerunner for the new European Presidency claims atheists and terrorists are the same side of a coin, along with myriad other despicable acts, then there needs to be a serious shift in the level of influence they have.
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  • Offline bear

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Intelligent design
Reply #16 on: October 12, 2009, 12:11:25 PM
Really, religion is hard to define, one is r = that which binds together.

Also one could say that advertising is a religion, not the product pushed
but the surroundings i.e. the nice houses people live in etc.   ads often pushes values and ways of living by saying this is how people live.
Well hard to explain but someone might understand what i am saying :)

  • Offline shofty

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Intelligent design
Reply #17 on: October 12, 2009, 13:26:15 PM
Quote from: Chris H

I also find it rather amusing that you were bitching about people being homophobic and prejudiced in another thread (something I agree with you on) and then actively celebrate the fact that you are intolerant of religion.


gayers dont suicide bomb.


  • Offline Quixoticish

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Intelligent design
Reply #18 on: October 12, 2009, 13:48:08 PM
Quote from: bytejunkie
Quote from: Chris H

I also find it rather amusing that you were bitching about people being homophobic and prejudiced in another thread (something I agree with you on) and then actively celebrate the fact that you are intolerant of religion.


gayers dont suicide bomb.



Stop being a dick.

  • Offline Serious

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Intelligent design
Reply #19 on: October 12, 2009, 14:06:01 PM
Quote from: Goblin
Quote from: Chris H
You threw me off by describing yourself as an anti-theist, I assumed you were simply against all forms of theism no matter how accepting and peace loving they may be.


Well, I think that people are better off not believing in fairy stories so I enjoy debating the issue with people and trying to get them to think rationally.


In that case forget science and physics, its unbelievable and irrational.

  • Offline bear

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Reply #20 on: October 12, 2009, 14:10:15 PM
Quote from: Serious

In that case forget science and physics, its unbelievable and irrational.


LoL

  • Offline shofty

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Intelligent design
Reply #21 on: October 12, 2009, 14:11:30 PM
Quote from: Chris H
Quote from: bytejunkie
Quote from: Chris H

I also find it rather amusing that you were bitching about people being homophobic and prejudiced in another thread (something I agree with you on) and then actively celebrate the fact that you are intolerant of religion.


gayers dont suicide bomb.



Stop being a dick.


how am i?

im not homophobic, but i do love to ask anyone muslim who will try and defend jihads how they can justify it? most of them point to extremism being evil.

in short, my beliefs are that homosexuality like religion is not for me. however, homosexuals arent out to kill innocents.

id like to point you back to a view which is that most wars originate around religion or religious viewpoints. troubles in NI? middle east wars? etc etc.

therefore homosexuals are a lot less dangerous than religious zealots.

so im a dick. fair point mate.

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  • Offline Goblin

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Intelligent design
Reply #22 on: October 12, 2009, 14:48:15 PM
Quote from: Serious
Quote from: Goblin
Quote from: Chris H
You threw me off by describing yourself as an anti-theist, I assumed you were simply against all forms of theism no matter how accepting and peace loving they may be.


Well, I think that people are better off not believing in fairy stories so I enjoy debating the issue with people and trying to get them to think rationally.


In that case forget science and physics, its unbelievable and irrational.


Wut?
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  • Offline bear

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Intelligent design
Reply #23 on: October 12, 2009, 14:50:52 PM
I think serious is referring to OReilly

  • Offline Edd

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Reply #24 on: October 12, 2009, 16:49:33 PM
Quote from: Goblin
I am intolerant of religion



Told you

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  • Offline Goblin

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Reply #25 on: October 12, 2009, 17:18:48 PM
Quote from: Edd
Quote from: Goblin
I am intolerant of religion



Told you


Religion isnt a person.
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  • Offline Pete

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Re:Intelligent design
Reply #26 on: October 12, 2009, 18:03:18 PM
You could argue that organised religion is evil and has never done any good to anyone, or you could consider it as one of the more significant contributors to the culture, morals, ideals, society, education etc. of mankind through much of our history. But I won’t digress into a Google-assisted overview of the evolution of society here or go into how actually religion does lots of good things nowadays (edit; as well as bad, of course).
 
Antitheism (or whatever you want to call the define-it-as-you-go way of thinking) is a load of bollocks; I’d be embarrassed to find myself spouting ‘intellectual’ crap like that when the only result is to piss people off and make yourself sound like a 17yr who’s just found the grown-up section of the library. I’m firmly in God’s corner here because I can’t stand the high-and-mightiness of atheists (whatever) who go beyond simply not believing in God (which is fine) and start looking down upon those with differing beliefs or ways of life, considering them inferior and/or lacking in common sense.

Go, God, go!

Can anyone really lump themselves in with people who make sweeping statements such as “well that [religious person] [did something bad] therefore all x billion [religious persons] are [negative descriptive]” and expect people to warm to their way of thinking? Atheists (whatever) are supposed to be the easy-going, logical-minded ones, right?

Also, afaik there is no analogue to big bang theory (as far as being widely accepted in the scientific community goes) when it comes to the origin of life on Earth. Let’s be clear. Evolution as a process involving natural selection and adaptation to changing environments is fact. Goovolution as a process involving a puddle of goo evolving into life via RNA and DNA is theory, one of dozens of scientific and mythical ideas that attempt to explain the origin of life.

Believe in God or don’t. Either is fine. You have faith or you don’t, no problem, but any opinion that flatly states that God does not exist is poorly researched to say the least - attempting to publicly deny something which by definition is undeniable is rather futile, isnt it?
I know sh*ts bad right now with all that starving bullsh*t and the dust storms and we are running out of french fries and burrito coverings.

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  • Offline Goblin

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Re:Intelligent design
Reply #27 on: October 12, 2009, 18:21:04 PM
Quote from: Pete
You could argue that organised religion is evil and has never done any good to anyone, or you could consider it as one of the more significant contributors to the culture, morals, ideals, society, education etc. of mankind through much of our history. But I won’t digress into a Google-assisted overview of the evolution of society here or go into how actually religion does lots of good things nowadays.
Culture - indisputably
Morals - 100%, absolutely not (depending on your definition or morals)
Ideals - ditto
Society - arguably
Education - couple of hundred years ago, yes.
Good things now - no. People do good things.


Quote from: Pete
Antitheism (or whatever you want to call the define-it-as-you-go way of thinking) is a load of bollocks; I’d be embarrassed to find myself spouting ‘intellectual’ crap like that when the only result is to piss people off and make yourself sound like a 17yr who’s just found the grown-up section of the library. I’m firmly in God’s corner here because I can’t stand the high-and-mightiness of atheists (whatever) who go beyond simply not believing in God (which is fine) and start looking down upon those with differing beliefs or ways of life, considering them inferior and/or lacking in common sense.
When their religious beliefs result in the retardation of society (and I dont mean mentally) then I absolutely will look down on it. When you deny evidence because of a badly translated, selectively edited book then you dont deserve respect.

Quote from: Pete
Can anyone really lump themselves in with people who make sweeping statements such as “well that [religious person] [did something bad] therefore all x billion [religious persons] are [negative descriptive]” and expect people to warm to their way of thinking? Atheists (whatever) are supposed to be the easy-going, logical-minded ones, right?

I judge people on the basis of their own actions. If you quietly go to church and mind your own business, work away. If you petition schools to teach "intelligent design" as a viable scientific alternative to evolution then youre a blight upon society. Same if you tell uninformed people living in a country with the highest rate of AIDS in the world that condoms *cause* AIDS, then you are no better than a murderer.

Quote from: Pete
Also, afaik there is no analogue to big bang theory (as far as being widely accepted in the scientific community goes) when it comes to the origin of life on Earth. Let’s be clear. Evolution as a process involving natural selection and adaptation to changing environments is fact. Goovolution as a process involving a puddle of goo evolving into life via RNA and DNA is theory, one of dozens of scientific and mythical ideas that attempt to explain the origin of life.
There are a few theories on abiogenesis, none of which are conclusive. Yet. They werent dreamed up in the pub over a beer, there is clear scientific process and research behind them. To say "you cant explain X, therefore god is as likely an explanation" is the most basic logical mistake you can make.


Quote from: Pete
Believe in God or don’t. Either is fine. You have faith or you don’t, no problem, but any opinion that flatly states that God does not exist is poorly researched to say the least - attempting to deny something which by definition is undeniable is rather futile, isnt it?
No-one states flat out that god doesnt exist because, by definition, it is impossible to disprove the existence of *anything*, including leprechauns, invisible flying pink unicorns and the flying spaghetti monster. However, saying that the non-existence of something that has *zero* evidence for existing is the default position that one should take. I dont believe in gods in the same way I dont believe in fairies.
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  • Offline Pete

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Re:Intelligent design
Reply #28 on: October 12, 2009, 18:39:17 PM
lol
I know sh*ts bad right now with all that starving bullsh*t and the dust storms and we are running out of french fries and burrito coverings.

  • Offline bear

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Intelligent design
Reply #29 on: October 12, 2009, 18:48:27 PM
Ill go with the Aborignes (earlier to belived to be a 40000 year old culture now believed to be at least 60000 year old).

Earth was created in "dreamtime"  

Aboriginals believe in two forms of time; two parallel streams of activity. One is the daily objective activity, the other is an infinite spiritual cycle called the "dreamtime", more real than reality itself. Whatever happens in the dreamtime establishes the values, symbols, and laws of Aboriginal society. It was believed that some people of unusual spiritual powers had contact with the dreamtime.




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