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Chat => General Discussion => Topic started by: neXus on April 07, 2020, 01:43:32 AM

Title: Life after COVID-19
Post by: neXus on April 07, 2020, 01:43:32 AM
COVID-19 is not going to go away but at some point it will be like the Flu. People will die from it each year but we will have vaccines in place, younger generations will naturally be more immune and the world will go to some form of normality.


But what will that normality be? What things do you guys think will stay the same and what will change permanently?
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Binary Shadow on April 07, 2020, 07:08:26 AM
personally I hope WFH is proven and remains more common, reducing travel will help co2 emissions
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Clock'd 0Ne on April 07, 2020, 08:14:13 AM
100% as above on WFH. It needs to be recognised as a normality and not an exception, thankfully tech is forward thinking on this and so its starting to get a lot of traction. My position was advertised as 100% remote (the odd trip to the office was accepted for big events, meeting the team and being inducted, etc) but we have a new starter joining next month who will not even get to meet anyone in the office and will need their Macbook posting out to them; I'll be inducting them remotely. Strange new world.

Not sure of the likelihood of this being a recurring event like the more common strains of flu, so far this has been categorised as more like SARS/MERS which are infrequent. I hope so anyway.

Hopefully with the sheer volume of ongoing parallel research now happening, this will become a time when we work out ingenious ways of putting some of these viruses to bed properly without the same level of effort needed each time (the same way they are starting to figure out how treatments that can attack any cancers). On that note: https://www.city-journal.org/coronavirus-vaccine

Right now though, I can only see the culture of fear and surveillance getting stronger, while the economy continues to tank. Pay off your mortgages ASAP folks.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Serious on April 08, 2020, 10:34:03 AM
The speed of spread of covid-19 certainly shows up the vulnerabilities of our society over the last 50 years. Fast and cheap air travel has proven to be a vulnerability and the UK amongst others have shown that a lazy government can make the issue far worse by not closing the borders and checking all travelers.

The lack of a decisive lockdown in the UK points towards the lack of control of the government, or the dislike of government control, and this is also the case in the USA where known covid-19 deaths are almost at the level of Spain. The fact that this coincides with the B***** issue is very bad news for UK companies. Neither issue is going to go away quickly.

How long it will be in the background is still unknown, it might just vanish again in a few months or it might become a constant issue. What is obvious is that the governments need to be more aware of the issues and ready to act much quicker than they have done.  That might mean rethinking the idea of travel for business and holidaying. Fictional writing, TV and films have all had instances of a severe pandemic being carried around the world killing billions. I would hope that the governments accept the message of this lesser pandemic, but then the governments have always tended to be slow at learning lessons from history.

China locked down very quickly which restricted their recorded deaths although the number may be massaged by the government. South Korea instigated a policy of mass testing which seems to have worked well enough.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Serious on April 08, 2020, 10:53:59 AM
... so far this has been categorised as more like SARS/MERS which are infrequent. I hope so anyway...

SARS (severe acute respiratory syndrome) and MERS (Middle East respiratory syndrome) are both coronaviruses and related to covid19. SARS effectively vanished after being isolated and few cases of MERS have been reported recently. The latter is endemic in Egyptian tomb bats so it will pop up every so often. Both seem to be more dangerous to the individual but less likely to spread person to person.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: neXus on April 09, 2020, 01:13:36 AM
100% as above on WFH. It needs to be recognised as a normality and not an exception, thankfully tech is forward thinking on this and so its starting to get a lot of traction. My position was advertised as 100% remote (the odd trip to the office was accepted for big events, meeting the team and being inducted, etc) but we have a new starter joining next month who will not even get to meet anyone in the office and will need their Macbook posting out to them; I'll be inducting them remotely. Strange new world.

Not sure of the likelihood of this being a recurring event like the more common strains of flu, so far this has been categorised as more like SARS/MERS which are infrequent. I hope so anyway.

Hopefully with the sheer volume of ongoing parallel research now happening, this will become a time when we work out ingenious ways of putting some of these viruses to bed properly without the same level of effort needed each time (the same way they are starting to figure out how treatments that can attack any cancers). On that note: https://www.city-journal.org/coronavirus-vaccine (https://www.city-journal.org/coronavirus-vaccine)

Right now though, I can only see the culture of fear and surveillance getting stronger, while the economy continues to tank. Pay off your mortgages ASAP folks.


My Boss hates WFH even though every time I have with my setup being better then the office and less disruptions I do way more - He always forces it into his head that I do not to justify it not being a good idea. It is not so easy for me there though being the lead developer and leading the team, teaching juniors and helping them etc.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Clock'd 0Ne on April 09, 2020, 08:21:17 AM
Our team lead is in Aus and we talk to him once a day in the morning if he's around, it just needs a bit of planning. Onboarding people is the biggest challenge but that can be tackled with screen sharing and video conferencing. It will never be quite as good as being in the same room but I'd say its 70% there, good enough provided your onboarding process is decent. If it isn't decent, you should improve it!
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Serious on April 09, 2020, 08:45:29 AM
Nothing stopping you having a constant private internet voice connection, work sharing, and bulletin board. Heck every gamer group now has access to discord.

Plenty of other work sharing packages out there and in reality being able to get people together without the often long journey into an office is a boon for everyone.

Edit missed a comma.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Clock'd 0Ne on April 09, 2020, 08:52:54 AM
Most corporates use Slack & Zoom/MS Teams now, I don't think Discord would wash well with corporate IT.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Serious on April 09, 2020, 09:40:02 AM
I woulds agree with that, I used Discord as an example, but there is Discord for Business and some small companies do seem to use it. Skype for Business is also available.

Then if this report is right we are now in an entirely different ball park.

https://nypost.com/2020/04/07/51-recovered-coronavirus-patients-test-positive-again-in-south-korea/
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: neXus on April 14, 2020, 01:58:16 AM
Most corporates use Slack & Zoom/MS Teams now, I don't think Discord would wash well with corporate IT.


We switched to teams at our company because it is on office 365 so comes with that and is all linked with the other stuff but JESUS does it hog memory and memory leak like crazy. Over the course of just a few hours the amount of memory it uses is insane.
Slack is HTML5 and JS application based for the most part just as spotify is for example and uses way less. We half considering moving back to Slack because of this. It seems it has been an issue for some time with a lot of reports for months on the MS forums and they simply done nothing to address it.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Clock'd 0Ne on April 14, 2020, 07:11:16 AM
It always amazes me how M$ can take an existing proven platform (Skype) and manage to make it even worse. At least they haven't done that with GitHub so far.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Rivkid on May 02, 2020, 09:36:18 AM
So BT are moving from 800 odd sites to 30 over the next few years, with the message being you're going to have to sit in on of the 30 sites (and not just any of them, the specific few that align to your area of the business...) and be expected onsite 9-5, 5 days a week. Properly old school. Then mid way through that plan the entire business has had to go and WFH almost overnight due to COVID19, and its working fine - but the message is still that the workplace plan will continue. It's going to mean so much talent lost, very likely myself included. Stupid when WFH works so well.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Clock'd 0Ne on May 03, 2020, 08:08:28 AM
What a backwards, mental attitude.  ::) Sorry to hear that man
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: M3ta7h3ad on May 03, 2020, 08:18:12 AM
The speed of spread of covid-19 certainly shows up the vulnerabilities of our society over the last 50 years. Fast and cheap air travel has proven to be a vulnerability and the UK amongst others have shown that a lazy government can make the issue far worse by not closing the borders and checking all travelers.

The lack of a decisive lockdown in the UK points towards the lack of control of the government, or the dislike of government control, and this is also the case in the USA where known covid-19 deaths are almost at the level of Spain.

China locked down very quickly which restricted their recorded deaths although the number may be massaged by the government. South Korea instigated a policy of mass testing which seems to have worked well enough.

I have to disagree. I think the UK government at all times has followed scientific guidance, they've been willing to adapt their approach as required and they have been transparent in doing so. You suggest it was late for the UK to act, but the UK was late in contracting the virus, we were at a completely different stage in the battle, the government was performing contact tracing and quarantine prior to the lockdown (the clue was in the "Containment" name of the phase), and at the time there was limited evidence of asymptomatic transmission.

The moment it became apparent asymptomatic transmission could occur, we moved to Delay, performing contact tracing on limited communities e.g. care homes and set about a gradual reduction in the amounts of social interaction.

"Herd immunity" you may scoff... but that is still the ONLY plan on the table for the entire world. In the East where they performed actions like welding shut doors on apartment blocks to contain the infected (the government did provide food and water to them though for the duration) and implemented road blocks around cities, they are now fighting against resurgences of the virus and it only takes one missed contact trace, or one bypass of a lockdown (Italy is a prime example of this - they did not lock down the entire country at once) for it all to go wrong and they'll be fighting a second or third wave.

In the West, every single country has adopted the view that in the absence of a vaccine they need to infect a majority of their population, whilst not overwhelming their health services.

The government got a lot of heat for not closing the schools down a week earlier than they did especially as they brought in social distancing measures for the rest of the UK population but it made complete sense. Schools are controlled outlets of the disease, limited numbers, they are the least adversely affected population according to all reports and Schools provide the key role of daycare for essential workers. They were in effect the sluice gates to the dam of social distancing.

When a dam is about to burst, you don't shut everything and let it come over the top flooding the valleys below. You keep the water draining in the hopes that although it is an increased flow, less death and loss of property occurs. This was no different.

All the government needed was for people to follow the advice and clear out of pubs and public areas, shield older populations and stay home, letting the kids who are less likely to die from this disease, act as spreaders to people who are of child bearing age. The majority of which will be nearer their 30's than their 60s again a lower mortality rate.

Shield the older generations and bobs you're uncle, we'll have most of the people infected, hopefully with milder symptoms and sufficient NHS capacity to assist those who have more severe symptoms, quickly and without risking the health of the older generations.

Immunity in relation to SARS and MERS is measured in years, for many other viruses it is decades. The mere fact that your body has recovered without assistance from external anti-virals is sufficient to assume at least for the short term, your body will now effectively fight off an exposure to a moderate viral load. That isn't to say you can't get it again, that is to say your body has some resistance to it, which is all immunity is.

Ultimately the aim is still to simply ride it out. It always has been and every single western government is following suit. The only places where they've done "lockdowns" in more controlled states are now seeing incidents of resurgence within small areas, it only takes one missed contact trace to cause a huge second spike once again.

The world's plan right now is to keep infection rates from spiralling but not to eliminate them, until such point that most of us have been infected and are showing some level of resistance to the virus. At which point, Covid-19 won't be able to establish sufficient footholds within the global population to cause further pandemics or public health crises.

There have been failings by the UK government, but on actions and timelines, I think our Government has done the one thing ALL governments should do and that is listen to their scientific advice and crucially... (which the US is not great at right now), BE ACCEPTING OF CHANGE. It is okay to reassess a situation and change stance, which is something the UK Press seems to consider as a negative?! which is absolutely bloody mental.

"So you got it wrong then?"
"The data changed, we reviewed it, we changed our approach"
"So we took the wrong approach first then?"
"No... we took the right approach then, and we're taking the right approach now. Situations change"

It's almost like the UK press would prefer our government be on rails.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: M3ta7h3ad on May 03, 2020, 08:27:28 AM
Most corporates use Slack & Zoom/MS Teams now, I don't think Discord would wash well with corporate IT.


We switched to teams at our company because it is on office 365 so comes with that and is all linked with the other stuff but JESUS does it hog memory and memory leak like crazy. Over the course of just a few hours the amount of memory it uses is insane.
Slack is HTML5 and JS application based for the most part just as spotify is for example and uses way less. We half considering moving back to Slack because of this. It seems it has been an issue for some time with a lot of reports for months on the MS forums and they simply done nothing to address it.

So we've switched to Teams here and as someone who had their teams status set to "If you need me, hit me up on mattermost*, the superior communication option" I now rate teams massively.

The memory hogging is a big issue, don't get me wrong mine was using up 3.5GB Ram during a conference call using the linux electron client, but in functionality it's been game changing. We just held a 45 person all day virtual conference using the platform and it worked great!. I can now also access it on other devices, including my work phone, My ubuntu work laptop and my Corp Windows VM.

*mattermost = basically SLACK for your own kit.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Serious on May 04, 2020, 21:03:47 PM
The speed of spread of covid-19 certainly shows up the vulnerabilities of our society over the last 50 years. Fast and cheap air travel has proven to be a vulnerability and the UK amongst others have shown that a lazy government can make the issue far worse by not closing the borders and checking all travelers.

The lack of a decisive lockdown in the UK points towards the lack of control of the government, or the dislike of government control, and this is also the case in the USA where known covid-19 deaths are almost at the level of Spain.

China locked down very quickly which restricted their recorded deaths although the number may be massaged by the government. South Korea instigated a policy of mass testing which seems to have worked well enough.

I have to disagree. I think the UK government at all times has followed scientific guidance, they've been willing to adapt their approach as required and they have been transparent in doing so. You suggest it was late for the UK to act, but the UK was late in contracting the virus, we were at a completely different stage in the battle, the government was performing contact tracing and quarantine prior to the lockdown (the clue was in the "Containment" name of the phase), and at the time there was limited evidence of asymptomatic transmission.

If you think that the medical advisors were followed then you are completely wrong. The Tory cabinet ignored medical advice and avoided starting SAGE meetings, or avoided attending them for a long time. Since then Cummings has been dictating the medical advice and changing it. In many cases the Tories simply ignored advice to lock down. The fact that someone can be infected with covid-19 without showing symptoms is irrelevant, the government were not checking people coming in from China, or anywhere else at all, that was long after other countries started doing so. This is about saving money, not lives, and always has been for Boris and the Tories.

Herd immunity is not even proven as yet, and in theory may still be impossible. There are many people who have had the disease and later tested positive again. Even if we manage to get a vaccine sorted it may not be effective for very long.

Their recent supposed testing success of over 100,000 tests in one day has proven to be a lie, they sent out over half a million kits on that day and those may still be out there. Really they managed a bit over 70,000 tests.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Serious on May 04, 2020, 22:33:05 PM
Interesting reading if you think that the Tories are telling the truth. Reality is they are banging their own drum while trumpeting false news boasts and idiots are believing them. Press are just publishing it verbatim.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/03/publics-trust-in-science-at-risk-warns-former-no-10-adviser
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: M3ta7h3ad on May 04, 2020, 23:08:43 PM
The speed of spread of covid-19 certainly shows up the vulnerabilities of our society over the last 50 years. Fast and cheap air travel has proven to be a vulnerability and the UK amongst others have shown that a lazy government can make the issue far worse by not closing the borders and checking all travelers.

The lack of a decisive lockdown in the UK points towards the lack of control of the government, or the dislike of government control, and this is also the case in the USA where known covid-19 deaths are almost at the level of Spain.

China locked down very quickly which restricted their recorded deaths although the number may be massaged by the government. South Korea instigated a policy of mass testing which seems to have worked well enough.

I have to disagree. I think the UK government at all times has followed scientific guidance, they've been willing to adapt their approach as required and they have been transparent in doing so. You suggest it was late for the UK to act, but the UK was late in contracting the virus, we were at a completely different stage in the battle, the government was performing contact tracing and quarantine prior to the lockdown (the clue was in the "Containment" name of the phase), and at the time there was limited evidence of asymptomatic transmission.

If you think that the medical advisors were followed then you are completely wrong. The Tory cabinet ignored medical advice and avoided starting SAGE meetings, or avoided attending them for a long time. Since then Cummings has been dictating the medical advice and changing it. In many cases the Tories simply ignored advice to lock down. The fact that someone can be infected with covid-19 without showing symptoms is irrelevant, the government were not checking people coming in from China, or anywhere else at all, that was long after other countries started doing so. This is about saving money, not lives, and always has been for Boris and the Tories.

Herd immunity is not even proven as yet, and in theory may still be impossible. There are many people who have had the disease and later tested positive again. Even if we manage to get a vaccine sorted it may not be effective for very long.

Their recent supposed testing success of over 100,000 tests in one day has proven to be a lie, they sent out over half a million kits on that day and those may still be out there. Really they managed a bit over 70,000 tests.

First, in every briefing they have been involved in, The Chief Scientific Advisor, the Chief Medical Officer, Head of the NHS, Deputy CSA, Deputy CMO and the NHS Head of Nursing have always demonstrably been in agreement by the statements made by the ministers. There is absolutely no doubt that the government did indeed follow the scientific advice on this matter throughout. The alternative, is a cover-up spanning the entirity of the civil service, which sounds a little too hollywood for my tastes. This is real life, not a paperback.

I do not doubt there have been failings, notably spanking money on 17 million defective tests from China, and the PPE nonsense but in actual timelines and strategy I don't find fault there at all.

Herd Immunity is a proven strategy when dealing with disease, we've been using it for centuries. The only thing up in the air with that strategy is if Covid-19 immunity post recovery is sufficiently long term enough to act as that buffer. Sadly though, its the only trick we (the entire world) have until a vaccine (if one can be produced) is created and we can stimulate our bodies to produce said antibodies without needing to suffer the symptoms of Covid-19. Same mechanism at the end of the day, either through natural recovery or through a vaccine.

100,000 tests a day is just bull anyway. What difference would it make even at 100,000 tests per day to test the entire population of the UK would take 600+ days to test. As much as "testing is key", even at 100,000 tests per day (which is insane for our country which does not have a huge testing industry either) would take 600+ days to do the lot of us. assuming no double tests. it really is not a feasible option. A city yes, a region perhaps, an entire country... no just no. its a fools gambit.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Clock'd 0Ne on May 05, 2020, 08:13:35 AM
Testing is key if you catch it early, track and monitor. We did none of those things. Everything else is political willy waving.

Also, we should have realised in January sh*t was going down, instead of blindly believing China as they quarantine the whole of Wuhan but say "hey guys, its all good, international travel is fine! No worries". The intelligence agencies knew, but no one was willing to take the necessary action.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Serious on May 05, 2020, 17:32:28 PM
The speed of spread of covid-19 certainly shows up the vulnerabilities of our society over the last 50 years. Fast and cheap air travel has proven to be a vulnerability and the UK amongst others have shown that a lazy government can make the issue far worse by not closing the borders and checking all travelers.

The lack of a decisive lockdown in the UK points towards the lack of control of the government, or the dislike of government control, and this is also the case in the USA where known covid-19 deaths are almost at the level of Spain.

China locked down very quickly which restricted their recorded deaths although the number may be massaged by the government. South Korea instigated a policy of mass testing which seems to have worked well enough.

I have to disagree. I think the UK government at all times has followed scientific guidance, they've been willing to adapt their approach as required and they have been transparent in doing so. You suggest it was late for the UK to act, but the UK was late in contracting the virus, we were at a completely different stage in the battle, the government was performing contact tracing and quarantine prior to the lockdown (the clue was in the "Containment" name of the phase), and at the time there was limited evidence of asymptomatic transmission.

If you think that the medical advisors were followed then you are completely wrong. The Tory cabinet ignored medical advice and avoided starting SAGE meetings, or avoided attending them for a long time. Since then Cummings has been dictating the medical advice and changing it. In many cases the Tories simply ignored advice to lock down. The fact that someone can be infected with covid-19 without showing symptoms is irrelevant, the government were not checking people coming in from China, or anywhere else at all, that was long after other countries started doing so. This is about saving money, not lives, and always has been for Boris and the Tories.

Herd immunity is not even proven as yet, and in theory may still be impossible. There are many people who have had the disease and later tested positive again. Even if we manage to get a vaccine sorted it may not be effective for very long.

Their recent supposed testing success of over 100,000 tests in one day has proven to be a lie, they sent out over half a million kits on that day and those may still be out there. Really they managed a bit over 70,000 tests.

First, in every briefing they have been involved in, The Chief Scientific Advisor, the Chief Medical Officer, Head of the NHS, Deputy CSA, Deputy CMO and the NHS Head of Nursing have always demonstrably been in agreement by the statements made by the ministers. There is absolutely no doubt that the government did indeed follow the scientific advice on this matter throughout. The alternative, is a cover-up spanning the entirity of the civil service, which sounds a little too hollywood for my tastes. This is real life, not a paperback.

I do not doubt there have been failings, notably spanking money on 17 million defective tests from China, and the PPE nonsense but in actual timelines and strategy I don't find fault there at all.

Herd Immunity is a proven strategy when dealing with disease, we've been using it for centuries. The only thing up in the air with that strategy is if Covid-19 immunity post recovery is sufficiently long term enough to act as that buffer. Sadly though, its the only trick we (the entire world) have until a vaccine (if one can be produced) is created and we can stimulate our bodies to produce said antibodies without needing to suffer the symptoms of Covid-19. Same mechanism at the end of the day, either through natural recovery or through a vaccine.

100,000 tests a day is just bull anyway. What difference would it make even at 100,000 tests per day to test the entire population of the UK would take 600+ days to test. As much as "testing is key", even at 100,000 tests per day (which is insane for our country which does not have a huge testing industry either) would take 600+ days to do the lot of us. assuming no double tests. it really is not a feasible option. A city yes, a region perhaps, an entire country... no just no. its a fools gambit.

Selected by the TORIES to back what they say. Jeez. Nobody else with any knowledge of what is happening backs them up. UK death toll 29,427 - highest anywhere but the USA.

They have failed completely because they did not follow internationally agreed procedures. But yeah, we know why you are called M3ta7h3ad.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: neXus on May 06, 2020, 01:16:08 AM
The medical office giving the government advise on the lock down has had to step down because he was having a lady friend constantly coming over.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Clock'd 0Ne on May 06, 2020, 07:24:59 AM
In North Korea these hypocrites would be shot. We're far too lenient here.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: neXus on May 06, 2020, 07:44:58 AM
In North Korea these hypocrites would be shot. We're far too lenient here.


There are stories of mass burning of people alive. Even if that is over the top it wont be too far from the truth.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Clock'd 0Ne on May 06, 2020, 08:37:10 AM
I mean I'm being a bit facetious, that's a bit far. Maybe just a kneecapping or something.

Realistically though, its not surprising people aren't taking it seriously when you see not just that (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52553229) but irresponsible health ministers visiting beaches (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-52194407) or CMO's visiting holiday homes (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-52177171).
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: matt5cott on May 06, 2020, 09:49:16 AM
PJW is a bit marmite, though I did find this has some good gallows humour in it.

Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Serious on May 13, 2020, 23:16:25 PM
American death toll is now above 85,000 with predictions it will go above150,000 within a few months.

Boris Johnson clearly lies to parliament over chance of people in care homes contracting corvid-19. it also seems that 10,000 people died in care homes for no reason at all in April alone. That means there are a lot more than that which just have not been reported as covid-19 related.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-pm-accused-of-misleading-commons-on-care-homes-and-urged-to-return-to-correct-himself-11987655
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: addictweb on May 15, 2020, 03:46:13 AM
Pay off your mortgages ASAP folks.

What makes you say this? We're heading into a deep recession, central bank rates would typically stay low while there is weak or negative economic growth.

I'd advise paying as little as possible off the mortgage, its the cheapest you'll ever get money, and diverting it all into shares.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Clock'd 0Ne on May 15, 2020, 09:21:05 AM
Carrying any kind of debt into a recession is a bad idea. Not only is overpaying on a mortgage financially sound any time but it also means if you do encounter trouble down the road you have some flexibility in lowering those payments.

Anyone that doesn't understand shares and the market would especially be ill-advised to start investing now. Investing is what you do when you have spare capital or are willing to endure higher risk for the potential returns. I know the buzz now is everything has tanked, buy buy buy but the reality is not so straightforward.

If I was going to invest (which I'm not) I would only be looking at stable companies most likely to not be affected by the current climate or economic downturn with high dividend yields. I expect most people wouldn't know where to begin on that front. Happy to hear your thoughts on that though!

Someone also might want to consider pumping into a pension if they are earning over the high-rate tax band (i.e the people most likely to have spare capital).

If you really haven't got a clue about any of this stuff talk to an IFA and don't listen to clowns like me on the internet. :lol:
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Serious on May 16, 2020, 21:09:06 PM
I have some bridges and a palace in London to sell....  :w00t: :ptu: :w00t: :ptu: :nana:
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: neXus on May 18, 2020, 01:48:37 AM
Testing is key if you catch it early, track and monitor. We did none of those things. Everything else is political willy waving.

Also, we should have realised in January sh*t was going down, instead of blindly believing China as they quarantine the whole of Wuhan but say "hey guys, its all good, international travel is fine! No worries". The intelligence agencies knew, but no one was willing to take the necessary action.


Trump, as he always does... Changing tactics again because the "Testing is beautiful, best in world" was not working for him. Wants his mates getting their $$$ again so testing does not matter any more. Not important.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: addictweb on May 18, 2020, 04:14:11 AM
Carrying any kind of debt into a recession is a bad idea. Not only is overpaying on a mortgage financially sound any time but it also means if you do encounter trouble down the road you have some flexibility in lowering those payments.

Anyone that doesn't understand shares and the market would especially be ill-advised to start investing now. Investing is what you do when you have spare capital or are willing to endure higher risk for the potential returns. I know the buzz now is everything has tanked, buy buy buy but the reality is not so straightforward.

If I was going to invest (which I'm not) I would only be looking at stable companies most likely to not be affected by the current climate or economic downturn with high dividend yields. I expect most people wouldn't know where to begin on that front. Happy to hear your thoughts on that though!

Someone also might want to consider pumping into a pension if they are earning over the high-rate tax band (i.e the people most likely to have spare capital).

If you really haven't got a clue about any of this stuff talk to an IFA and don't listen to clowns like me on the internet. :lol:

Fair, all makes sense. I guess it depends on how much risk you can take without putting yourself at risk.

Mortgage is a lot priority for me as I its cheap money and unlikely to go up anytime soon. Buying one of the major indexes is likely to give you far more than 1.5-2% mortgage is costing you over the medium term (but could cost you a lot if you need to pull it out to pay your mortgage).





Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Clock'd 0Ne on May 18, 2020, 07:23:38 AM
If you have just mortgaged/remortgaged at one of the stunning new low interest rates, then yes you could stand to earn more in the right savings or investments pool for sure. There's still a few places offering decent 5% regular savers, which you could pump money into instead of mortgage overpayment. I'm also factoring in that further down the line I will need/want to move up the ladder and get a bigger/better home, so overpaying makes most sense for me in this regardless of anything else.

If anything, a smart move is to try and do a bit of everything and diversify where your money is held to maximise your returns. I know that's typical for stocks but makes sense more broadly too. In my case, I have some going into my pension for retirement and to reduce my hit in the high rate tax band, some going into regular savings at high interest and obviously a fair wedge overpaying on the mortgage too.

Don't forget also that the power of compound interest becomes staggering over time. When I feel I have enough 'spare' I'll start looking at the stock market again.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: neXus on May 19, 2020, 01:39:02 AM
It is different for every country but we all know when things are back to normal at some point the governments want to get their money back in some way.


- Cashing in on loans from other countries will fall on deaf ears because they will not have the money either.
- Big companies and corporations will worm their way out of having to pay anything as they always do.


It will be us who they fall back on. You just finally got a job after loosing it over this crisis, you been doing well despite it... What ever position you are on there will be tax increases and other things at some point coming down the line. They may say they will not do it even.. But everyone has to know that WE will be the ones paying for these unprecedented times at some point.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Serious on May 19, 2020, 03:23:21 AM
for those who are put out of work and have to claim benefits it is probably better to  pay off as much of your mortgage as you can if you have more than the maximum limit on savings. This is the reason I originally put in half the money with my brother and bought the house outright.

For others with a mortgage the very low interest rates means it might be worth just keeping going with payments, even on the lowest level.

Again consult an independent financial advisor as many people's situation is different.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: addictweb on May 19, 2020, 09:05:29 AM
On the covid situation, Im watching from Singapore. UK has around 3000 new confirmed cases a day and deaths in the hundreds, and is not widespread testing so the real value will be well above this. There is no tracing going on. Hospital staff cant get tested (my mum and her colleagues are non frontline in a hospital and all had a suspected case, could not and still cannot get tested). Loosening restrictions now looks like an admission of defeat and leaving it to those who are at risk to isolate themselves to survive.

The UK media rehotoric has been way more positive about the uk situation than any of the global media, and the UK is happily pointing fingers are others poor management whilst not accepting how awful 35,000 deaths is.

In Singapore we currently have <5 'community' (meaning cases from people not already quarantined) per day an no deaths but will be maintaining a similar lockdown to the UK one for longer.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Clock'd 0Ne on May 19, 2020, 09:17:55 AM
There was a brief window where it looked like they were going to do a good job after implementing the lockdown. I think they've now realised that they can't afford to carry on the way the economy is and want people back to work, despite the fact that nothing has really changed. Of course, if they had locked down sooner and harder, we wouldn't even have had the large initial number of cases here in the first place.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: matt5cott on May 19, 2020, 13:55:27 PM
I find myself agreeing with that PJW bloke. :tinhat:

Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Serious on May 19, 2020, 15:52:53 PM
Seems the Tory government is trying to hide it's failures and incompetence by lying everywhere, including on twitter. Surprisingly even against papers that normally support the Conservative party.

Looks like Cummings is trying a huge disinformation project and it's not entirely successful.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: neXus on May 20, 2020, 04:57:04 AM
Few things...


1. No one is really covering New York any more and it is hard to find out if things are worse, the same or better. It almost seems like the US Government are trying to stem this.


2. Australia is under stage 1 of opening lockdown which involves up to 10 people in groups outside and in restaurants. When on the park it has been nice to see families with kids with their grandparents walking around. Grandparents seem very happy after not seeing grand kids for some time. Been nice to see this sort of thing.


3. My wife got re-employed and been very busy working from home for her company again. Because of the government funding provided to a company for wages being a fixed value for all she actually is earning more than before.


4. Day care's dropped to under half of the kids so the AU gov set in place to pay half the cost of a child for the day care but they had to offer the parents it as free. This is to get them to get some money back through increasing numbers and to encourage parents to bring them back. Not only do we have our eldest kid back in but he is going an extra day as well every week for free.


We have more income together and we are not having to pay for child care at the moment so while some people have lost jobs etc we are in that bracket that people will hate us for where we are better off. I do not feel good about it and its just that knock on effect of things being handed out being fixed based and not mean tested in any way (which would be impossible).
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Clock'd 0Ne on May 20, 2020, 07:56:32 AM
Enjoy it while it lasts I say!
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: neXus on May 21, 2020, 03:07:02 AM
Enjoy it while it lasts I say!
For sure.
We are lucky and I am in an indispensable role and actually been busier at work.
Very humbled by that luck when others are struggling.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Serious on May 21, 2020, 10:05:22 AM
How do you hide over 10,000 covid-19 deaths? You change the law.

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/the-great-covid-cover-up-how-the-johnson-administration-made-it-easier-to-hide-coronavirus-deaths/21/05/

In other news the EU told the UK negotiators Brexit means Brexit. Seems they had no idea that if the UK left with no deal the EU can legally screw us into the floor.

Worse Trump is trying to break the WTO, meaning there would be no WTO rules exit, we would simply drop out with no protection at all.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Serious on June 04, 2020, 14:50:02 PM
Seems that the UK government is having more blunders than the press can report. That includes Britain reporting more covid-19 deaths than the entire EU on a single day.

Two of the government SAGE scientists walked out rather than appear on a press conference where they could not openly answer any question from the press. Then a lot of SAGE decisions seem to be from Cummings and his plants when the committee should be entirely medical.

The new legal rules from government are also strange, seems that if you live separately from your partner you cannot legally meet for sex, but you can hire a prostitute as she would be "working". You could also have an orgy in your garden, providing other rules do not apply. Then you cannot take your family for a holiday in the Lake District, but a Spanish person legally can. This is bonkers, and all down to government incompetence.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/the-uk-reported-more-covid-19-deaths-yesterday-than-the-whole-of-the-eu-combined/ar-BB1515fm
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: neXus on June 05, 2020, 02:33:33 AM
Simply bad organisation from the top and more often than not lack of decisions being made.
That is one of the MANY reasons why Trump is sooo bad. He does not actually care about anything other than his continued..


- His public image (or what he thinks he sees of himself)
- Numbers he thinks are important in tables and graphs (simplified) he receives
- "Law and order" in the controlled manner he has
- How much money he and his mates are making
- Anything dark he has done stays hidden


Pretty much has run his whole term like this and hell with anything else.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: neXus on June 05, 2020, 02:34:27 AM
Happy note.
New Zealand only has 1 case total over there and New South Wales here has had zero new cases nearly all week with 1 reported death turning out not to be from COVID-19.
Gyms are opening up on the 13th and I am very happy about that!
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: knighty on June 05, 2020, 14:23:22 PM
Seems that the UK government is having more blunders than the press can report. That includes Britain reporting more covid-19 deaths than the entire EU on a single day.

aren't we measuring/counting them differently to everyone else?
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: addictweb on June 08, 2020, 09:54:35 AM
In Case you havent found it yet, this seems to be the ultimate site for Coronavirus number monitoring:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

And, yes, UK does not look good on any metric.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Clock'd 0Ne on June 08, 2020, 10:43:20 AM
I fully expect Round Two now we've opened up the floodgates again. Still not diving out the house car keys in hand to desperately hit up B&Q/Maccy Ds/Lidl specials aisle/seafront/historic castles/protesting/eye tests/wank in the woods and so forth.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Serious on June 09, 2020, 12:00:23 PM
Seems that the UK government is having more blunders than the press can report. That includes Britain reporting more covid-19 deaths than the entire EU on a single day.

aren't we measuring/counting them differently to everyone else?

We are not including people who have not been tested and died outside of hospital but there is a way of finding out how many deaths are being hidden. Death rates are normally quite stable, so you just take previous years to give an average range and the difference is the covid-19 deaths. Which is why in April you had roughly the normal death toll, the known covid-19 death toll and nearly 10,000 other deaths. Even the Daily Fail claims that the Covid-19 death total is at least 10,000 under reported.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: matt5cott on June 09, 2020, 14:42:44 PM
I said on here I'd bet it would be much worse than the flu, or such. I've changed my opinion and don't see that as the case, I'm sure it exists and I'm sure people are indeed dying, but the whole thing is remarkably sketchy to me, things are just not adding up.

I know someone who died from it, parents neighbour, 94, in a care home, already critically ill and basically waiting to die, recorded as corona  :-\

Where's this mega VE day spike?
The beaches spike?
The US memorial day spike?
The further beaches spike?
London, the infested rat hole which constantly had the media showing people breaking "lockdown" Having days with zero cases? lol OK then.


How can we be due a "second spike" When confirmed cases go back to November/December? Did the virus have Christmas off and not count until governments started taking numbers?

A virus can't be controlled effectively, there won't be a vaccine any time soon, and with the death rate one certainly doesn't need to be rushed through, countries that have zero cases, "great" what about all the asymptomatic ones, what about all the other countries on the planet waiting to "re-infect" You can't put the genie back in the bottle!

Still it's all coming to a head now, if by next week hospitals are not chocka block with infected people due to protests, then I'd imagine even more people will be questioning why they can't even spend time indoors with their parents and loved ones.

This will be blamed for the coming recession and economic ruin as it's a god tier scapegoat, not decades of financial malpractice, lax laws, bailing out the lender instead of the creditor in 2008, etc, nope, all the 'rona.

edit - the "new normal" mantra can f*** right off as well.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Clock'd 0Ne on June 09, 2020, 18:31:26 PM
I am in many ways totally inclined to agree with you, I only know a handful of people that have had it, and the most serious being an old school friend on Facebook had both parents ill and one of them died. It is all very suspicious, but as I'm now a family man I'm not taking any chances just on the chance it isn't as serious as has been made out. I know the risks are low but It's not materially affected me much in any case adhering to lockdown so I might as well grin and bear it until it becomes more apparent what is really going on and not this sketchiness...

On all the other points about it being a perfect scapegoat for the coming turmoil, f**king spot on :thumbdown:
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: neXus on June 10, 2020, 03:46:51 AM
New Zealand is all but going back to normal this week as they have Zero people even infected now. Small country but also that can be a bad thing as if you let it go loose the whole country can get infected with a total population of 4-5 people. They went full lockdown for over a month and that has paid off.


Australia has done a confusing strategy and silly but in many ways has also worked with like 8 new cases nationwide and continues to open up. I think only 8 new cases in the whole country in the last week and none in the state of NSW. Gyms open on Saturday (with conditions).


Then you look at America with 18+ NEW Cases still and Trump is trying to open up as if it was 0. Insane.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Clock'd 0Ne on June 10, 2020, 09:58:37 AM
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: addictweb on June 10, 2020, 10:17:36 AM
Singapore (where I am) has shown how low the death rate can be with adequate medical care, 40,000 confirmed cases and 25 deaths (0.06% / 1 in 1600). All the deaths having had other conditions, most have been elderly. That is likely to be a realistic figure as testing is widespread and pro-active, not just of these with suspected coronavirus.

The issue comes if adequate healthcare is not available then the death rate is much much higher. That was the point of the lockdowns, to ensure that the rate of infection was low enough that the minority of the population how need critical care are able to get it.

The UK have the worst infection rate and highest death rate in the world, the failings you mention are absolutely having an impact but the number of people involved are a tiny portion of the population which is being blown out of proportion by the media. And most will be fine because the infection rate has already been lowered because of the lockdowns.

There are plenty of examples across the world of one large gathering causing infection of hundreds. The first cases in South Korea from a religion gathering and the recent resurgence from a single infected person visiting a nightclub spring to mind. 
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: addictweb on June 10, 2020, 10:20:19 AM
1700 new cases in the UK yesterday and 286 deaths. Remember most will be being identified 2 weeks after infection + testing lag so these are before many of the recent lifting in restrictions.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Serious on June 11, 2020, 01:00:13 AM
How can we be due a "second spike" When confirmed cases go back to November/December? Did the virus have Christmas off and not count until governments started taking numbers?

The only place to have covid-19 infections before Christmas was China, it took a few weeks to get settled in and spread out of the country. It didn't take off in the UK until April. Then, if you are not identifying the cause of death or testing people it is very easy to miss a growth of infections. It has been estimated that so far about 20% of the UK population has been infected, so considering that 80% not as yet you would need to treble the present death toll to get that 60% herd immunity level. In fact you actually need a higher level than that for adequate immunity, if it really works.

Seems the schools are not opening until after the summer holidays now
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Clock'd 0Ne on June 11, 2020, 08:04:45 AM
Plenty of reports of people both here and in the US being very ill with flu-like symptoms before/during Christmas, Serious. My whole family was ill over Christmas and we ended up taking my son to A&E on Christmas Day as he was so bad. Some of the traits were suspiciously like COVID-19, so we may even have had it already. :dunno:

He's due to start nursery in September too, in some ways I'm hoping we do have a second wave and things are 'back to normal' by then.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: matt5cott on June 11, 2020, 10:00:46 AM
The only place to have covid-19 infections before Christmas was China, it took a few weeks to get settled in and spread out of the country.

This is supposed to be an indiscriminate highly virulent virus, not a lazy student who can't be arsed to get off the sofa :lol:

Plenty of reports of people both here and in the US being very ill with flu-like symptoms before/during Christmas, Serious. My whole family was ill over Christmas and we ended up taking my son to A&E on Christmas Day as he was so bad. Some of the traits were suspiciously like COVID-19, so we may even have had it already. :dunno:

He's due to start nursery in September too, in some ways I'm hoping we do have a second wave and things are 'back to normal' by then.

Plausibly what else would have the potency to do that to your family?
I've read a lot of people saying similar on twitter, but I obviously take that with a pinch of salt! But some is even before the whole virus was "outed" by the media, no doubt a report will be done in 10 years time looking back that admits this was the case :lol:
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Serious on June 12, 2020, 15:26:20 PM
Plenty of reports of people both here and in the US being very ill with flu-like symptoms before/during Christmas, Serious. My whole family was ill over Christmas and we ended up taking my son to A&E on Christmas Day as he was so bad. Some of the traits were suspiciously like COVID-19, so we may even have had it already. :dunno:

He's due to start nursery in September too, in some ways I'm hoping we do have a second wave and things are 'back to normal' by then.

As I said, if you are not testing for covid-19 then you won't easily be able to tell the difference. There are plenty of viruses that produce "flu like symptoms" and many are far more dangerous for young children. I have constant flu like symptoms from fibromyalgia, the difference being nobody else can catch that from me. What we do know is deaths did not take off until April in the UK, if it had been here before then there would have been earlier ones.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: matt5cott on June 18, 2020, 13:44:39 PM
Still it's all coming to a head now, if by next week hospitals are not chocka block with infected people due to protests, then I'd imagine even more people will be questioning why they can't even spend time indoors with their parents and loved ones.

Me waiting for this "spike"

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2F7sBOXL9APVDjy%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1&nofb=1)

Another added to the OH NO IT'LL CAUSE A SPIKE hysteria list.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Clock'd 0Ne on June 25, 2020, 08:11:34 AM
So the US has gone on record as having the highest numbers recorded in one day, 38,000 cases.

Data from our own gov site suggest its tailing off here (pretty graphs): https://coronavirus-staging.data.gov.uk/

So what do we think is going on here? Is it mis-information? Is it circumstancial, such as we are a tiny island and it burnt through the population and the US is vast and spread so numbers will grow over a longer period? Is it all a pack of lies? :tinhat:

My birthday is on the 3rd and the UK 'reopens' on the 4th, but I have no plans to rush out and celebrate with daft personal space extensions, plastic screens and excessive hand sanitisation being enforced. I will stay in, drink and BBQ most likely.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: knighty on June 25, 2020, 10:31:06 AM
I can see a second spike/surge as everyone goes daft and throws caution to the wind

only difference relaxing rules is going to make to me is improve my dating life, lock-down has been a real killer  :-o
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Serious on June 25, 2020, 21:35:14 PM
So the US has gone on record as having the highest numbers recorded in one day, 38,000 cases.

Data from our own gov site suggest its tailing off here (pretty graphs): https://coronavirus-staging.data.gov.uk/

So what do we think is going on here? Is it mis-information? Is it circumstancial, such as we are a tiny island and it burnt through the population and the US is vast and spread so numbers will grow over a longer period? Is it all a pack of lies? :tinhat:

My birthday is on the 3rd and the UK 'reopens' on the 4th, but I have no plans to rush out and celebrate with daft personal space extensions, plastic screens and excessive hand sanitisation being enforced. I will stay in, drink and BBQ most likely.

The UK is going through a huge amount of disinformation and the government specifically trying to stop testing without appearing to do so. The Labour party put in an amendment to make it law that NHS staff should have been tested regularly, the Tories voted against it. The Tories even put in a vote that they are doing really well on coronavirus, one they could never lose. If you don't test then you don't identify coronavirus patients and don't have to include them in the figures.

Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Serious on July 02, 2020, 17:15:01 PM
Seems that the government is not even giving councils access to the data they need to assess the situation.

So either the Tory government is suppressing it or they have stopped gathering data as much as possible. The latter would be because if they don't have it they don't have to give it out when asked.

This is very much like Trump suggesting they should reduce testing in USA, as if there was some obscure form of Schrodinger's cat involved. Less testing means less infections when the reality is you just don't know about them.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Rivkid on July 03, 2020, 18:54:07 PM
I can see a second spike/surge as everyone goes daft and throws caution to the wind

only difference relaxing rules is going to make to me is improve my dating life, lock-down has been a real killer  :-o

Has it reduced your unintentional suicide attempts? :)
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Mark on July 13, 2020, 00:45:22 AM
I've worked from home for 14 years now. Glad the rest of the world is finally starting to catch up!
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: neXus on July 13, 2020, 03:16:56 AM
There is jus a massive amount of things no one is talking about and avoiding in some cases in many countries and globally that is just crazy to think about.


Small: AU tax
It is tax time and me and my wife, like many have bought things regarding working from home and will be claiming tax back on that stuff. That will be another big hit for the government and they not shown any indication if they aware this will happen and it may bite them in the ass hard.


India:
India appears to be in a massive mess. Lack of medical, testing and just the attitude over there...
If you had actual numbers the infections and deaths for India would be right up there and there seems to way this country will ever be sorted any time soon. When vaccinations are available this country is not going to be one that is able to get these out to the population properly so they will be in serious trouble for YEARS maybe.


This leads to travel restrictions:
Places that are bad and remain bad, like India will just be locked out of the rest of the world so this will have real impact for years to come on manfacturing, resources and so on. Many companies were moving out of China because of other issues to places like India and will have to rethink that again.


Business and services:
Again with India - All the call centres and support services running out there will be greatly effected and likely to be so for a minimum of 2 years. Companies will have to look to move out of there and setup elsewhere which will have a further impact on India's economy.
I think 3 years down the line you may see India just savaged by COVID-19.




Vaccination time:
How this will role out and who will end up paying for it but no government has really covered this. In may countries it looks like the people themselves will have to pay and it may not be cheap yet it could be the only real way to keep the virus controlled...
With that there will be lots of people who will refuse to have it, the crazy anti vaccination idiots - What do you do with them, do you force them or.. ?
As I mentioned as well, the countries that cant afford it as a whole will be years years if at all before treatment roles out so the whole world may have to just black list those countries for years!




All this and more, it is crazy still that the governments like UK and US just trying to get normality so soon - nuts.




I have to talk about Leicester as well here. My home town.
Leicester as you may or may not know is under extra levels of lockdown and there has been in coverage of this here in Sydney. We have heard how basically people there have not been following the guide lines very well compared to the rest of the country.
My mum spent time catching up with her sister in Leicester on Friday, she was telling her of an incident that a good example of things happening daily there. Two large groups of Indian's had a Cricket match on a park despite it being banned. 4 police turned up to try and break it up and they refused. They had to get vans of police but it took over 2 hours and they just kept playing and all but finished their game before Police finally moved them on and did not make any arrests etc. It seems legally the police are very limited despite lockdown laws existing.


She told my mum there is a lot of Indian's protesting, cases on local news of Indians who got arrested going around spitting on people and business remaining open or just people trying to leave the city despite the limitations.
Do not get some people and feel ashamed a lot of fellow Leicesterarians are just ignoring the current climate.



Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Clock'd 0Ne on July 13, 2020, 07:07:56 AM
Leicester is perhaps worse, I don't know, but you see the same behaviour everywhere.

We took our boy down to the beach for the first time ever yesterday to let him go up to the sea and play with the pebbles (there's no sandy beaches near us). This was at 9am when we thought it would be quiet, relatively early before the sun is out in full, yet it was still busy along the main seafront where the shops are; no-body was distancing whether it was families with young kids, the elderly, disabled people being pushed along in their chairs, people sat in groups outside cafes without even a metre between them. If it had been quiet we would have stopped to get some chips but after walking down the quiet end of the beach where there was only a few surfers and a couple of dog walkers about, we headed straight home.

Even out in the local woods where we've been going for walks its been busy though for the most part but people avoid you when they see you trying to distance and cross to the other side of the path, etc. But even there in the playzones and sand pits they have set up near the car park you see dozens of kids all playing around each other, their families not seemingly bothered by the proximity.

If there is not a second wave I will be shocked and starting to agree wholly with Matt.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: matt5cott on July 13, 2020, 10:20:08 AM
Leicester being "locked down" was a joke, totally unenforceable and just pushed more people into the surrounding cities, the exact opposite of what you want to happen :gag: :lol: I was out for a pint in a neighbouring city the Monday after the pubs opened and there's just no way people were going to ask "ARE YOU FROM LEICESTER" I mean unless you walked in with a Leicester football shirt on the bar staff wouldn't bat an eyelid and you'd get served  :dunno:

I see the metric has now moved to "cases" being reported, not hospitalisations or deaths, "cases" IMO this is because the numbers of hospitalisations/deaths are "low"

If there is not a second wave I will be shocked and starting to agree wholly with Matt.

I guess the good news is we only have to wait until this weekend to see the impact of pubs opening back up (14 days) And let's not kid ourselves, there was no "social distancing" so given it's been 9 days TODAY, emergency wards should be filling up rapidly from now onwards.
I went to 4 pubs yesterday, believe me from what I've seen it's mostly lip service to the rules,  if the doom and gloom mongers are right (and they may be)  We should see hospitalisations and deaths mega spike at the absolute latest before August 1st.


crazy anti vaccination idiots

This kind of rhetoric is really not helpful and seems to be a tool the media are using to pile in legitimate concerns into the conspiracy theory nutjob pigeon hole. 

Surely you can see the difference between those objecting to multi decade proven vaccines like MMR, usual childhood vaccines etc, to those objecting to a coronavirus vaccine to which the points of objection seem pretty fair to me, the lack of clinical trials and safe/proper testing, and the arguable lack of necessity with such a high survival rate.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Clock'd 0Ne on July 13, 2020, 10:41:36 AM
Surely you can see the difference between those objecting to multi decade proven vaccines like MMR, usual childhood vaccines etc, to those objecting to a coronavirus vaccine to which the points of objection seem pretty fair to me, the lack of clinical trials and safe/proper testing, and the arguable lack of necessity with such a high survival rate.

This is a big distinction and most people seem to share these same concerns. I would not be rushing to be a guinea pig for any new vaccine given mistakes have been made in the past after all, I would sooner wait and see how it all plays out.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: neXus on July 14, 2020, 00:56:22 AM
Surely you can see the difference between those objecting to multi decade proven vaccines like MMR, usual childhood vaccines etc, to those objecting to a coronavirus vaccine to which the points of objection seem pretty fair to me, the lack of clinical trials and safe/proper testing, and the arguable lack of necessity with such a high survival rate.


I only see its the same group of people for both. Regardless if it is safe or not, what I see is all of them talking that it is not real and a form of control and the virus is not real and so on - too much of a large number of idiots. My point was, as they do here in Australia countries should cut benefits, not allow them to do x and y for as long as they do not get the jab.


Your right in regard to the rush though, Until its deemed "safe" I will not be rushing to get it but I think countries like here in Australia will not be issuing it until they feel that anyway.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: knighty on July 14, 2020, 11:11:22 AM
and the arguable lack of necessity with such a high survival rate.

there's about 70million people in the UK

if 1% of us die that's 700,000 dead

and I think measuring how many people die is a bit of misnomer... it's ignoring all the people who almost die, or who are/were seriously ill in hospital etc.

Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Serious on July 14, 2020, 19:26:32 PM
As I have said elsewhere plenty of countries haven't got the resources to test, those like the UK and USA don't want to test because then they don't have to admit the full extent of the issue. The Spanish flu at the end of WW1 went on for three years.

There are also those who don't die but never fully recover and end up with potentially life long health problems that need regular drugs and treatment.

Seems the government are hoping to get everyone to wear masks in shops, and the police to enforce it. Police say it's going to be impossible to enforce and shop staff have no real idea about wearing masks too. Visited a local Morrisons for the second time since the lock down, a staff member claimed they would not have to wear masks and it would be up to the company to decide.

Anyone still think putting Boris and the clowns in charge is still a good idea?
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: neXus on July 15, 2020, 00:42:06 AM
and the arguable lack of necessity with such a high survival rate.

there's about 70million people in the UK

if 1% of us die that's 700,000 dead

and I think measuring how many people die is a bit of misnomer... it's ignoring all the people who almost die, or who are/were seriously ill in hospital etc.
Agreed on this point. I have seen people totally fine now but talking about how they could not taste and had an bad cough to being in hospital coughing up blood and nearly dying. I think there has been a lot of this and people recovering.

Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: neXus on July 15, 2020, 03:27:43 AM

Seems the government are hoping to get everyone to wear masks in shops, and the police to enforce it. Police say it's going to be impossible to enforce and shop staff have no real idea about wearing masks too. Visited a local Morrisons for the second time since the lock down, a staff member claimed they would not have to wear masks and it would be up to the company to decide.



Like I said, In Leicester the police there can not do anything with the Lockdown.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Clock'd 0Ne on July 15, 2020, 06:26:41 AM
The time for this new mask policy was three months ago. Now we look even more stupid and you can bet it will be unenforceable (aka leave it down to shop policy to refuse to serve and let the staff deal with angry and aggressive customers).

I'm enjoying staying in more and more :lol:
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: neXus on July 16, 2020, 05:37:38 AM
In the US though...




Scary
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Serious on July 20, 2020, 12:23:50 PM
Which is why America has an official death toll of 143,289  Britain's official death toll of 45,300 is proportionately even worse and a lot of covid deaths have been hidden by simply not counting people who were not tested.

The UK government has ordered 190 million doses of vaccine from three different companies. The issue here is we still don't know how effective the vaccines will be or if they offer long term protection. So far no vaccine for coronaviruses has been successfully developed.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: matt5cott on July 21, 2020, 09:16:07 AM
and the arguable lack of necessity with such a high survival rate.

and I think measuring how many people die is a bit of misnomer... it's ignoring all the people who almost die, or who are/were seriously ill in hospital etc.

Agreed as the figures are sh*t, "Do not resuscitate" Orders seemed to have been sent out to homes, as well as the latest about the figures being stopped due to any detection of "covid" at any point, ie you could be positive in May, then get hit by a bus last week, "DIED DUE TO COVID"  :lol: :lol: :lol: :roll:



Anyway,

Pubs and theme parks have been open for well over 2 weeks now and yet again no doom spike, I've been to both first hand and there's no "social distancing" I've seen no masks in a pub, at Alton towers mask wearing was massively in the minority, the only time it was adhered to was when a ride was about to start, if everyone didn't have a mask on then no ride for you, as you can imagine once the ride started it was a case of it being pulled down off your face slightly for most.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Clock'd 0Ne on July 21, 2020, 11:33:26 AM
There's no social distancing anywhere, its gone completely out the window and its pretty much a massive joke to think masks will be enforced in any meaningful way.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/18572452.pubs-england-close-customers-test-positive-covid-19/

It's very hard to say wtf is going on any more, I looked and couldn't see any reporting on numbers or potential for a spike since lockdown opened. It's getting a bit surreal.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Clock'd 0Ne on July 28, 2020, 06:06:49 AM
Regardless of your current view of the pandemic, I think this is a fair assessment of where we are at:

Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: matt5cott on July 29, 2020, 17:01:16 PM
lol good fear porn from Mr Pie "YER YOU KNOW WOTS WERSE DAN A MARSK, VENTILATOR TOOB MAYTE" Social shame is an intriguing weapon in getting this enforced.


I do wonder how long for? Someone I work with said "well it's fine to wear one forever, I'm protecting other people" His mask was literally a home made rag :dunno: It'll be interesting if it goes the way of "social distancing" IE as time goes on more and more people bin it off regardless of if they're "told to" Or not.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Clock'd 0Ne on July 29, 2020, 17:31:01 PM
It's definitely over the top! But I can't help but feel that complaining about wearing a mask when its so low effort isn't really helping matters, if there is a spike we could be back to square one seeing lockdowns again like Victoria in Aus, Spain, etc :dunno:
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: neXus on July 30, 2020, 02:52:51 AM
It's definitely over the top! But I can't help but feel that complaining about wearing a mask when its so low effort isn't really helping matters, if there is a spike we could be back to square one seeing lockdowns again like Victoria in Aus, Spain, etc :dunno:
It is mandatory in the state of Victoria to wear masks. Police are struggling as there is this increasing amount of people with "Its against human rights" bullcrap but the police are starting to arrest them now. State borders are shut but people have been trying to get through still but finally also being arrested.


Victoria here is out of control. Everything though boils down to mistakes and idiots.


- Victoria refused to have the national guard monitor hotels for people in quarantine. They used security guards or hotel security and there were several mistakes and people escaping.
- Victoria people are just out of control from my friend in Melbourne, specifically Melbourne - Parties, bars and night clubs totally ignoring all the regulations etc in place.


For NSW there has been blips as you would expect but the big spike:
- 2 women got in from Victoria
- 1 of the above women went to a thai restaurant who was packing the place out and not doing the distancing and limits as they should. She infected people including staff.
- Said staff went to one of the other branches and infected staff and people there
- Then you got the spiral from those cases.
- The SAME 2 women then managed to get a flight to Brisbane and are the cause of infections there. Allowed to fly out and made false claims on the COVID flight documents to get in too.


Basically NSW and Brisbane spike is from 2 IDIOTS!
Victoria is a wash with errors and people just not even doing basics.


US is a mess but it just shows that everyone has to do their bit otherwise it can very easily go out of control again.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Serious on August 12, 2020, 21:30:49 PM
UK has been confirmed as being in recession, the worst of the G7 nations This is despite the Tory government trying to avoid shutting the country down and having the worst death toll in Europe.



https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/aug/12/uk-economy-covid-19-plunges-into-deepest-slump-in-history
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Binary Shadow on August 13, 2020, 07:46:05 AM
having the worst death toll in Europe.
thats about to change!
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Serious on August 23, 2020, 05:33:35 AM
having the worst death toll in Europe.
thats about to change!

Official death toll is 41,423, which ignores thousands of deaths above the seasonally adjusted average. Still highest in Europe.

Then all the government seems interested in doing is lining their own pockets and giving huge amounts of government money in fraudulent deals to their friends.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: neXus on September 18, 2020, 04:10:35 AM
Checking to see how you all are doing.


UK looking to go further and further into lockdown again and EU got worse after opening up (unsurprisingly)
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Clock'd 0Ne on September 18, 2020, 11:33:10 AM
I've stopped worrying now my son is at nursery, there's little we can do to change things at this point and no one cares about mask wearing/distancing, etc.

We're still wearing the masks as obligated but can't help but think lockdown #2 or a lockdown lite variant might be around the corner.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Bacon on September 18, 2020, 16:18:20 PM
94% of Covid deaths in the US died of underlying health conditions, admitted by the CDC after Trump put pressure on them to relinquish their data.

Make up your own picture of what is and isnt going on in this world currently.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: XEntity on September 18, 2020, 19:16:37 PM
Don't know if this has been posted or not, but this is pretty good to drill down the data by country and apply filters and stuff..

Main thing it's missing is the ability to normalise the data against population to give a more equal view..

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html (https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html)

*Obviously it's only as good as the data input to it
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Serious on October 02, 2020, 17:12:29 PM
94% of Covid deaths in the US died of underlying health conditions, admitted by the CDC after Trump put pressure on them to relinquish their data.

Make up your own picture of what is and isnt going on in this world currently.

Really it depends on the spin you put on it, 94% of covid deaths were old people. Old people tend to have issues like compromised immune systems.

Trump is trying to pretend the situation in the USA is better than it really is, 213,000 deaths is not good for him in his election year.

Seems he and Melania have both tested positive. Exactly how this will affect the election debates or final result is unknown. Chances are though he will survive.

Not that the UK is much better with over 42,000 deaths and climbing. Tory government has no idea of even it's own rules are.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Serious on October 02, 2020, 17:17:59 PM
Don't know if this has been posted or not, but this is pretty good to drill down the data by country and apply filters and stuff..

Main thing it's missing is the ability to normalise the data against population to give a more equal view..

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html (https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html)

*Obviously it's only as good as the data input to it

Another one that displays the data in a simpler form. Note that the UK claim, as well of many other countries only includes tested cases, so tens of thousands of covid deaths will never have been recorded.

The infected rate is even more guess than data, and probably way out.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: soopahfly on October 13, 2020, 10:47:39 AM
I quite like lockdowns, I'm an antisocial sod these days so I don't go to pubs etc.
I don't like people.  Years of working customer facing jobs will do that to you. 
I even like the social distancing.  Places I need to visit aren't as busy and I can't believe I used to let people breathe on me.

Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Serious on October 14, 2020, 21:27:03 PM
In some areas hospitals are nearly full and the overflow ones have been told to get ready.

The reason they were not used much earlier in the year seems to have been the government managed to keep most elderly people who might have benefited from treatment in one in their communal care homes, which rapidly increased deaths there that could be hidden.

Boris seems to be putting off action, which could result in a much higher death toll than it could be. The Tories are again going for economy over people's lives.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Clock'd 0Ne on October 15, 2020, 08:58:39 AM
The Tories are again going for economy over people's lives.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't; the people losing their jobs, livelihoods, shops or potentially homes as well as their health probably hold a different opinion. This is a no-win situation for Bojo the rhesus monkey, there's no point pretending that another party would have managed the situation any better.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: neXus on October 16, 2020, 03:47:48 AM
The Tories are again going for economy over people's lives.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't; the people losing their jobs, livelihoods, shops or potentially homes as well as their health probably hold a different opinion. This is a no-win situation for Bojo the rhesus monkey, there's no point pretending that another party would have managed the situation any better.
Why I have never voted.


- No Party in the last 50 years as delivered over half of the policies and promises they set out in elections
- While a first year of delivering on some of the promises occur, over time tax goes back up, money you earn or benifits you may get goes down.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Serious on October 21, 2020, 21:37:14 PM
The Tories are again going for economy over people's lives.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't; the people losing their jobs, livelihoods, shops or potentially homes as well as their health probably hold a different opinion. This is a no-win situation for Bojo the rhesus monkey, there's no point pretending that another party would have managed the situation any better.
That would depend on when the change happened in time.

Had 'another party' taken over at the last election there would have been minimal time. The one thing you can be sure of would be that Brexit would have been postponed until another referendum could be run. That would have pushed things back to June/July at the earliest. We would still be in the EU and able to use their resources fully. There would be no vast lorry parks being constructed. The money spent on Brexit could have been instantly ploughed into the NHS. People sick in OAP homes would have been moved into the special emergency hospitals that were barely used. Had the government simply reacted two weeks earlier rather than dithering the death toll might have been halved (not my prediction).

Take it back further to when Mrs Dopey May lost her majority. Had that election gone to 'another party' then they would have started investing in the NHS. Could have changed the tax burden to economic growth rather than 'austerity'. The NHS this year would have been better placed to deal with the influx of patients. They would have listened to the experts, paid competent companies to supply equipment rather than the fraud and scam schemes that the Tories pushed money into.

HELL the government might have actually been competent.

So yes, another government would have meant we were much better off now. You're welcome.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Clock'd 0Ne on October 22, 2020, 09:18:23 AM
That would depend on when the change happened in time.

Had 'another party' taken over at the last election there would have been minimal time. The one thing you can be sure of would be that Brexit would have been postponed until another referendum could be run.

...

Take it back further to when Mrs Dopey May lost her majority. Had that election gone to 'another party' then they would have started investing in the NHS...

Absolute speculation, neither of those things are certainties at all and especially in the case of another referendum; you can't just keep re-doing referendums every time you don't like the outcome, this is why they are not legally binding and have been the tool of fascists and demagogues.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Serious on October 22, 2020, 20:50:22 PM
That would depend on when the change happened in time.

Had 'another party' taken over at the last election there would have been minimal time. The one thing you can be sure of would be that Brexit would have been postponed until another referendum could be run.

...

Take it back further to when Mrs Dopey May lost her majority. Had that election gone to 'another party' then they would have started investing in the NHS...

Absolute speculation, neither of those things are certainties at all and especially in the case of another referendum; you can't just keep re-doing referendums every time you don't like the outcome, this is why they are not legally binding and have been the tool of fascists and demagogues.
The Labour party manifesto when May got her election included improvements to the NHS. Labour has always put more money into healthcare, Tories have always tried to cut it to give their rich backers tax cuts.

When Blair got into office the national debt was about £500 billion. At the start of the financial crisis, triggered by US banks and investments, it was still about the same £500 billion. During the banking crisis UK borrowing doubled, meaning when Labour left office the country owed just over 1 trillion, but the economy was on the way up again. Had the Tories just continued Brown's plan GDP growth would have overtaken borrowing. Germany and France did go for growth, meaning they paid back the debt. UK went austerity, GDP growth stalled meaning that the £1 trillion debt is now over £2 trillion. That is not speculation that is economic fact.

As for the referendum. The UK courts agreed that it was fraudulent and undemocratic. The only reason that the courts didn't render it null and void was because the government was not bound by the result so could do whatever it liked, providing there was a vote for it in parliament. Luckily for those who really wanted to leave the Tories were against staying and so was Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn. The referendum was worthless, used as an excuse. Day before the result, a deal would be easy and better than remaining inside. The day after they changed that to leave with no deal.

Then I'm not saying we should have had referendums until we got one I liked the result of, that is irrelevant. The important bit would have been the government pushing the issue back as far as needed and ignoring it until the covid issue was over. That would have enabled them to spend far more time dealing with the crisis that couldn't be delayed.

Even if Jeremy Corbyn had won he still wanted us to leave the EU and he would have done his best to achieve that.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Clock'd 0Ne on October 23, 2020, 08:14:39 AM
I'm pretty certain we had a deadline to adhere to with regards to the EU, it wouldn't simply be a case of pushing it back unless the EU also agreed to this.

The link between growing national debt is tenuous too, I don't follow that growing debt means they would have invested in the NHS given the two are at odds, regardless of what hollow promises are written in manifestos.

Don't get me wrong, I think the Tory cabinet is as equal a shower of sh*t as the Labour cabinet, I'm certainly not defending the current state of play. But to assume Labour would have automatically fared better or stuck to promises is a bit naive, given the crippling deficiencies in higher brain function all ministers seem to have currently. God help us all.

We see the same cycle decade-in decade-out, swinging between the two parties and leading to equal misery. Its like football fans staunchly defending their favourite team when they absolutely suck balls and not being capable of showing respect to the other teams. If anything it's all a murky mirror of the US at present.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Serious on October 24, 2020, 14:14:17 PM
I'm pretty certain we had a deadline to adhere to with regards to the EU, it wouldn't simply be a case of pushing it back unless the EU also agreed to this.

The link between growing national debt is tenuous too, I don't follow that growing debt means they would have invested in the NHS given the two are at odds, regardless of what hollow promises are written in manifestos.

Don't get me wrong, I think the Tory cabinet is as equal a shower of sh*t as the Labour cabinet, I'm certainly not defending the current state of play. But to assume Labour would have automatically fared better or stuck to promises is a bit naive, given the crippling deficiencies in higher brain function all ministers seem to have currently. God help us all.

We see the same cycle decade-in decade-out, swinging between the two parties and leading to equal misery. Its like football fans staunchly defending their favourite team when they absolutely suck balls and not being capable of showing respect to the other teams. If anything it's all a murky mirror of the US at present.

The EU would have inevitably agreed, only France might have balked a bit but it would have gone through if there was the potential of another referendum.

Tories have always resisted putting any money into the NHS. Check up on who actually increased spending the most (Labour). Latest lie is that there are 7810 more doctors. They changed the way staff are recorded so now students are included as doctors.

I would agree that all parties tend to suck, it's just that the Tories suck most, Liberals second, Labour least.

Again not what I disagreed with originally. You said nobody could have done any better. I could have equally said nobody could have done worse. Reality is nobody else had the chance and both are factually incorrect. The New Zealand PM did far better, South Korea did far better, so someone could have done better in the UK.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Clock'd 0Ne on October 24, 2020, 16:32:05 PM
If we're being strict on what I said, it was "no point pretending that another party would have managed the situation any better" - which I still stand by - as you can't compare the three countries of apples, oranges and plums (we're the bunch of plums). With hindsight its easy to see how this has progressed, we've fared about as well as anywhere in Europe though I do think the current measures are stupid and ineffectual. Unless you think labour would have thrown us into a strict 2 month lockdown on day one, closed all airports, etc the outcome would be about the same I reckon. We'll never know though!
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Serious on October 25, 2020, 12:18:11 PM
You have to consider what the government did against what the medical profession advised them to do and what the opposition would have done.

The government did not follow advice, they tried to skimp and save the economy. Unfortunately they failed to save people and they failed to save the economy. That is fact, not my idle estimation.

 "no point pretending that another party would have managed the situation any better" is false. It sounds like a Telegraph headline. I am not pretending, I know that the alternative would have managed the situation better.  The Scottish government certainly did as far as they were allowed.

At the very least they would have gotten a lot more PPE in quicker and not paid millions to scam companies owned by their rich friends.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Serious on October 30, 2020, 02:41:15 AM
It's now starting to look like the government may have no choice but full lock down again.

Worse than that the ongoing testing shows that a large number of people lose their antibodies within three months. that means that early antivirus options might not be as effective as hoped, people could still catch it but suffer less severe symptoms.

That would also mean that herd immunity is a pipe dream without a vaccine that is cheap and effective for at least a few months. There are other ways the body can identify infections but we don't know how much difference those will make. The good part is that hospital staff have learned what treatments work better and when to use them.

Had the government gone all out for herd immunity earlier this year like they wanted it would have cost about 400,000 deaths and we would still have the virus.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/12/immunity-to-covid-19-could-be-lost-in-months-uk-study-suggests
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Serious on October 30, 2020, 15:50:19 PM
Seems the government made a blunder with eat out to help out scheme, not only did it not have a long lasting economic effect it was costly and greatly helped covid-19 to spread.

Present government policy is keep restaurants and pubs that serve meals open, meaning an ideal transmission vector for the virus. Link but many news channels carry the same.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-eat-out-to-help-out-accelerated-second-wave-of-covid-19-study-says-12118285
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Serious on October 31, 2020, 20:26:45 PM
Four week lockdown.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54763956
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: neXus on November 02, 2020, 00:52:36 AM
Four week lockdown.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54763956 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54763956)


Sunday had zero new cases in all of Australia. Summer hitting and hoping things will continue to open up between states. A lot of politics have got involved with how different states handling things and who and who they do not let in though :(
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Serious on November 22, 2020, 13:59:35 PM
Christmas will not be normal despite lockdown ending next month, Sunak warns

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/christmas-not-normal-despite-lockdown-101525695.html
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Clock'd 0Ne on November 22, 2020, 14:02:37 PM
No one cares, the rules will all be ignored. We went to the woods yesterday and it was the busiest I've even seen it, like a shopping centre. No distancing, kids in the sandpit/playground areas that's supposed to be closed off, a queue of about 30 people 1m apart waiting to buy coffee from a van. No one even bothers to move away from crossing paths any more.  :dunno:
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: neXus on November 23, 2020, 01:24:48 AM
I was actually surprised yesterday as we Saw Santa. Social distanced queue setup but one of the old shops in the mall but he had no masks or anything, just the "Elves". Probably got testing stuff but again it is down to how well Australia has handled COVID-19 compared to the UK I guess. Not been perfect but one of the better countries.


I got a pay rise last week still, so doing OK.


The Vaccine stuff will be the next thing. Not just distribution but about people getting it. All the anti vaxor's are already kicking off about it. It will be hard to force people to have it but I think you should suffer heavy restrictions if you do.
Australia will already not accept people into the country without proof of vaccination. I think most countries should do that and if you have states - that too. Limit peoples travel.
I think if countries can go further they should.


- I do not think you will be allowed government benefits
- I do not think you should be allowed to go work
And so on. The longer you go without it the worse the restrictions get.


Here in Australia if you do not immunise your kids you have restrictions on benefits etc and they increase. When you are over 30 you have to get health insurance and if you do not they take it out of your pay and that increases over time as well.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Serious on November 24, 2020, 15:41:40 PM
Coronavirus infections in south east England still rising? I wonder why? <with sarcasm>

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-11-23/covid-19-rates-falling-in-most-but-not-all-local-areas-of-england
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: matt5cott on November 24, 2020, 23:21:50 PM
It will be hard to force people to have it but I think you should suffer heavy restrictions if you do.
Australia will already not accept people into the country without proof of vaccination. I think most countries should do that and if you have states - that too. Limit peoples travel.
I think if countries can go further they should.


- I do not think you will be allowed government benefits
- I do not think you should be allowed to go work
And so on. The longer you go without it the worse the restrictions get.

(https://media.makeameme.org/created/HansAre-we-the.jpg)
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: matt5cott on November 24, 2020, 23:37:29 PM
Coronavirus infections in south east England still rising? I wonder why? <with sarcasm>

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-11-23/covid-19-rates-falling-in-most-but-not-all-local-areas-of-england

On that page,

CTRL + F

"deaths"

No results,           so that'll be just an article stoking fear based on positive tests then (which incidentally do not automatically equate to cases)

It's not about a virus anymore, there is a virus I'm sure, but this is all being used as a trojan horse to ramrod a load of world economic forum policies and slogans like "build back better" and "great reset" Klaus Schwab the WEF version of Dr Evil says this himself, before someone comes in and asks me where my tinfoil hat is  :lol:
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Cornholio on November 25, 2020, 00:29:09 AM
Throwing in my two penneth, as someone who works on a covid ward, I really do wish the public would stop ignoring the rules and adhere to lockdown, handwashing and so on. We are seeing more covid cases in my hospital, and I shouldn't have to tell you that I'm still emotionally drained from the first wave, seeing patients die alone in hospital from the virus has been a nightmare experience. Also after having covid-19 myself I can tell you that it is a nasty illness. I had shortness of breath, crippling fatigue and muscle aches and pains, loss of appetite, struggled to sleep, headaches, lost my sense of taste and smell and genuinely wanted to die because I felt so ill. Even now, 7 months after getting it, I still have bad days with fatigue and my sense of smell is still 50/50. It's no joke. Be safe everyone, at least until the vaccine is released.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: neXus on November 25, 2020, 00:58:10 AM
It will be hard to force people to have it but I think you should suffer heavy restrictions if you do.
Australia will already not accept people into the country without proof of vaccination. I think most countries should do that and if you have states - that too. Limit peoples travel.
I think if countries can go further they should.


- I do not think you will be allowed government benefits
- I do not think you should be allowed to go work
And so on. The longer you go without it the worse the restrictions get.

(https://media.makeameme.org/created/HansAre-we-the.jpg)


I know but because of things like Trumpism you have to do things like this. Quantus will not let you fly with them without proof of vaccination and I think other airlines will follow if governments do not do the additional electronic updates on passports.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: neXus on November 25, 2020, 00:59:55 AM
Throwing in my two penneth, as someone who works on a covid ward, I really do wish the public would stop ignoring the rules and adhere to lockdown, handwashing and so on. We are seeing more covid cases in my hospital, and I shouldn't have to tell you that I'm still emotionally drained from the first wave, seeing patients die alone in hospital from the virus has been a nightmare experience. Also after having covid-19 myself I can tell you that it is a nasty illness. I had shortness of breath, crippling fatigue and muscle aches and pains, loss of appetite, struggled to sleep, headaches, lost my sense of taste and smell and genuinely wanted to die because I felt so ill. Even now, 7 months after getting it, I still have bad days with fatigue and my sense of smell is still 50/50. It's no joke. Be safe everyone, at least until the vaccine is released.
And to think many Americans are treating it with even less care and thought - Scary!
Hope you recover fully soon Cornholio!
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Cornholio on November 25, 2020, 07:40:55 AM
Thanks, every day is a day closer to feeling 100%. Just worried about what the virus has done to me in the long term...
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Clock'd 0Ne on November 25, 2020, 09:53:19 AM
Thanks, every day is a day closer to feeling 100%. Just worried about what the virus has done to me in the long term...

Hopefully you are one of the lucky ones that will have no long term afflictions.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Serious on November 25, 2020, 14:30:53 PM
Coronavirus infections in south east England still rising? I wonder why? <with sarcasm>

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-11-23/covid-19-rates-falling-in-most-but-not-all-local-areas-of-england

On that page,

CTRL + F

"deaths"

No results,           so that'll be just an article stoking fear based on positive tests then (which incidentally do not automatically equate to cases)

It's not about a virus anymore, there is a virus I'm sure, but this is all being used as a trojan horse to ramrod a load of world economic forum policies and slogans like "build back better" and "great reset" Klaus Schwab the WEF version of Dr Evil says this himself, before someone comes in and asks me where my tinfoil hat is  :lol:

Yep, put on your tin hat. World Economic Forum has nothing to do with this. Their mission is stated as "committed to improving the state of the world by engaging business, political, academic, and other leaders of society to shape global, regional, and industry agendas". Basically increase profit for the rich, same as Trump and the Republicans in the USA, Boris and Tories in the UK.

Meanwhile Rishi Sunak announces a pay freeze for government employees, effectively a cut in pay due to inflation. Oh and despite denying it more austerity.

Tests now indicate far more correctly the number of infections, although still with a tendency to be too low. Reality is we are only going to get an end to this with a worldwide vaccination program.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: matt5cott on November 25, 2020, 15:27:46 PM
this is all being used as a trojan horse to ramrod a load of world economic forum policies and slogans like "build back better" and "great reset" Klaus Schwab the WEF version of Dr Evil says this himself, before someone comes in and asks me where my tinfoil hat is  :lol:
Yep, put on your tin hat. World Economic Forum has nothing to do with this. Their mission is stated as "committed to improving the state of the world by engaging business, political, academic, and other leaders of society to shape global, regional, and industry agendas".

So you put the WEF into a search engine, and read the synopsis  :lol:
 ::)

(https://t4x3y5r8.stackpathcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/joe-biden-campaign-slogan-build-back-better-united-nations-new-world-order-agenda-933x445.jpg)

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/07/to-build-back-better-we-must-reinvent-capitalism-heres-how (https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/07/to-build-back-better-we-must-reinvent-capitalism-heres-how)

I don't expect you to watch all the below, but the title is

#WorldEconomicForum #TheGreatReset
COVID-19: The Great Reset



World leaders are parroting this, along with wearing Agenda 2030 badges, with this coloured ring logo (https://yt3.ggpht.com/a-/AAuE7mDzok_OPgks9uxARUMAtsSBb7_ln3uzywqMUA=s900-mo-c-c0xffffffff-rj-k-no)
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Cornholio on November 25, 2020, 17:04:21 PM
Thanks, every day is a day closer to feeling 100%. Just worried about what the virus has done to me in the long term...

Hopefully you are one of the lucky ones that will have no long term afflictions.

I really hope so!
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Clock'd 0Ne on November 25, 2020, 17:13:14 PM
As I know you to be a sound, rational fellow Matt, I feel we can have some good discussion about this all here that can't really be had on Soshul Media. Try and bear with me, this might start rambling  :lol:

There's a lot of layers to this, from the pretty far out ideas of Bill Gates masterminding a vaccine for some sort of global control - not sure how that works or why he would give a sh*t, I haven't bothered to even look at that rabbit hole - to the great reset/agenda 2030 stuff, all with varying degrees of credibility attached.

I don't really believe 99% of it other than perhaps some of the economic goals to secure more wealth inequality, as I think its easy escapism for most FB Karens and Kens to assume govt wants an Orwellian future where they can read your thoughts, force you to be micro-chipped before you can ever leave the house again, etc via the sweet globally-masterminded delivery of a virus. That is before you even consider that it would need the entire world to be in on it, including China. That's a lot more fun to rant about and easier to justify contempt and disobedience for than the simple idea of a global pandemic making them miserable since they should avoid spreading it so they don't endanger loved ones, have their liberties curbed, have to wear masks, etc.

There is the argument that COVID-19 has presented a convenient opportunity to start implementing measures towards Schwab's goal, but again this does rely heavily on global co-operation that frankly I don't believe exists beyond a handful of countries that might scratch each others backs. It also needs people in power that can be puppeted accordingly. Many countries are already going back to normal again.

Given all of the above, and given the exposure that this idea is all receiving and massive media attention, why is the whole thing so publicised? Why wouldn't this agenda be as secret as the contents of Area 51; surely no-one should have a clue about it and it should come across as proper lunatic, Illuminati conspiracy stuff? I don't get where Gates fits into any this either and why he's up there with Schwab as one of the prime evils, despite the fact people hate him for M$ and vilify him even though he's the most recognised philanthropist on the planet.

You've obviously spent more time attempting to understand all this so I'd really like to hear your views on how much of it you think is plausible and how much is nonsense.

To me right now, it just seems like our govt has bumbled through a situation that could have played out drastically different (much like McDonald Trump's handling in the US). I feel like normality is perhaps realistically coming in 2022 in tangible terms, even if the economy is f**ked. I also think Bojo and the cabinet of clowns are too inept to follow some master plan even if it was laid out for them.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Serious on November 26, 2020, 00:42:25 AM
Matt, "It's on the web so it has to be true!"

I've had all of this already from US conspiracy theorists out to make some money from themselves. Their immediate assumption is that if it isn't politically hard right then it's got to be commie sh*t.

So precisely what is your point here? You really want to get less money and pay more tax while UK government ministers commit fraud while give huge amounts to friends and family?

If we continue on that then Brexit is going to be a key theme. It's the Tory way to get out of giving the general public a fair deal.

Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: matt5cott on November 26, 2020, 11:07:35 AM
As I know you to be a sound, rational fellow Matt, I feel we can have some good discussion about this all here that can't really be had on Soshul Media. Try and bear with me, this might start rambling  :lol:

There's a lot of layers to this, from the pretty far out ideas of Bill Gates masterminding a vaccine for some sort of global control - not sure how that works or why he would give a sh*t, I haven't bothered to even look at that rabbit hole - to the great reset/agenda 2030 stuff, all with varying degrees of credibility attached.

I don't really believe 99% of it other than perhaps some of the economic goals to secure more wealth inequality, as I think its easy escapism for most FB Karens and Kens to assume govt wants an Orwellian future where they can read your thoughts, force you to be micro-chipped before you can ever leave the house again, etc via the sweet globally-masterminded delivery of a virus. That is before you even consider that it would need the entire world to be in on it, including China. That's a lot more fun to rant about and easier to justify contempt and disobedience for than the simple idea of a global pandemic making them miserable since they should avoid spreading it so they don't endanger loved ones, have their liberties curbed, have to wear masks, etc.

There is the argument that COVID-19 has presented a convenient opportunity to start implementing measures towards Schwab's goal, but again this does rely heavily on global co-operation that frankly I don't believe exists beyond a handful of countries that might scratch each others backs. It also needs people in power that can be puppeted accordingly. Many countries are already going back to normal again.

Given all of the above, and given the exposure that this idea is all receiving and massive media attention, why is the whole thing so publicised? Why wouldn't this agenda be as secret as the contents of Area 51; surely no-one should have a clue about it and it should come across as proper lunatic, Illuminati conspiracy stuff? I don't get where Gates fits into any this either and why he's up there with Schwab as one of the prime evils, despite the fact people hate him for M$ and vilify him even though he's the most recognised philanthropist on the planet.

You've obviously spent more time attempting to understand all this so I'd really like to hear your views on how much of it you think is plausible and how much is nonsense.

To me right now, it just seems like our govt has bumbled through a situation that could have played out drastically different (much like McDonald Trump's handling in the US). I feel like normality is perhaps realistically coming in 2022 in tangible terms, even if the economy is f**ked. I also think Bojo and the cabinet of clowns are too inept to follow some master plan even if it was laid out for them.


To start with here's a brief overview with some interesting WEF tweets for reference https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2020/11/20/the-great-reset-is-not-a-conspiracy-theory/ (hopefully we're all mature enough to look past the site it's published on and give it a fair read)


I don't think micro-chipped thought reading ultra techno facism is coming in the short term, but whilst people laugh and easily dismiss concepts like this as tin foil hat ramblings what they're not aware of is the fact that Schwab has literally written about these concepts in his book the fourth industrial revolution https://www.weforum.org/focus/fourth-industrial-revolution a breakdown of some of the wacky sh*t in the book is here https://winteroak.org.uk/2020/10/05/klaus-schwab-and-his-great-fascist-reset/ as an example if you search "29" on that page you'll see where the thought reading comes from.

On the subject of the fourth industrial revolution, here's Matt Hancock, you know him, practically fellating him in an introduction for a speech a few years back recorded on the gov website, https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-4th-industrial-revolution


I won't spend ages replying as ultimately people will believe what they want, if everyone wants to dismiss it out of hand fair enough, that's up to them  :) But to be brief, I do think "Covid" has given wealthy elites an opportunity to launch a global co-ordinated mutually beneficial effort for all those with the real wealth, I'm not talking about daily puppet show government politics of "BOJO DID THIS" or "BREXIT" but the layers that sit firmly above, will it all be a success? I don't know. Is it in the best interests of the ordinary person? No.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Clock'd 0Ne on November 26, 2020, 11:23:15 AM
Cheers for that. I can definitely see elements of this being played out. One of the things I can't possibly see happening is the whole abolition of private property scenario as it would cause absolute chaos and probably bloodbath riots somewhere like America, unless global society literally broke down into a free-for-all following some kind of nuclear war. Something I do notice about all this is that there's a lot of speculation but never much in the way of offering suggestions on how people can fight back and resist against any of these things.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: neXus on November 26, 2020, 23:25:54 PM
I just wanted to add on this:
It does not seem that the really rich have been effected much by anything (as always). Where a lot of businesses have shut down and properly left vacant, something I have seen around here in Sydney that someone is picking up all the property. While some have taken over by other small/medium businesses there are a lot Sold but just being held for "Something".
I can see a lot of rich property folk snapping up property at low prices during COVID-19 and when things start returning to normal making a killing on them as things pick up.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Clock'd 0Ne on November 27, 2020, 07:33:01 AM
The rich/investors always make a killing in times like this. I'd imagine shareholders of Pfizer are laughing.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: soopahfly on November 27, 2020, 09:35:22 AM
Some of you have far too much time on your hands.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: DEViANCE on November 27, 2020, 19:18:28 PM
Some of you have far too much time on your hands.

If you havent got too much time on your hands you're doing covid wrong.

Work, eat, sleep, repeat  :-\

like a good little worker ant.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Mark on November 27, 2020, 23:51:05 PM
I am just coming out of recovery from covid. Can't say that it was fun (more than one point I was convinced I was a gonner) but I'm out the other side now and breathing more easily. Stay safe people!

Hello everyone by the way, I really must try and post more often again.
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Clock'd 0Ne on November 28, 2020, 06:27:58 AM
Glad to see you back Mark, hope you have a swift full recovery  :ptu:
Title: Re: Life after COVID-19
Post by: Serious on November 28, 2020, 17:36:39 PM
Matt, the real cheats here are the rich Republican right and associated loons. They want to shove as much wealth to themselves as possible and will use whatever tactics needed to do that.

Which includes putting up lies on Breibart, they have been doing this for years, decades. Backing Trump put $billions into the hands of the rich, who also got huge tax cuts.

So it's not tin hat stuff, it's intentional lying by Republicans to deceive the American public. Same as claiming that anything that isn't hard right Republicanism is commie.