Author Topic: Life after COVID-19  (Read 3585 times)

  • Offline Bacon

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Re: Life after COVID-19
Reply #90 on: September 18, 2020, 16:18:20 PM
94% of Covid deaths in the US died of underlying health conditions, admitted by the CDC after Trump put pressure on them to relinquish their data.

Make up your own picture of what is and isnt going on in this world currently.
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Re: Life after COVID-19
Reply #91 on: September 18, 2020, 19:16:37 PM
Don't know if this has been posted or not, but this is pretty good to drill down the data by country and apply filters and stuff..

Main thing it's missing is the ability to normalise the data against population to give a more equal view..

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

*Obviously it's only as good as the data input to it

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Re: Life after COVID-19
Reply #92 on: October 02, 2020, 17:12:29 PM
94% of Covid deaths in the US died of underlying health conditions, admitted by the CDC after Trump put pressure on them to relinquish their data.

Make up your own picture of what is and isnt going on in this world currently.

Really it depends on the spin you put on it, 94% of covid deaths were old people. Old people tend to have issues like compromised immune systems.

Trump is trying to pretend the situation in the USA is better than it really is, 213,000 deaths is not good for him in his election year.

Seems he and Melania have both tested positive. Exactly how this will affect the election debates or final result is unknown. Chances are though he will survive.

Not that the UK is much better with over 42,000 deaths and climbing. Tory government has no idea of even it's own rules are.

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Re: Life after COVID-19
Reply #93 on: October 02, 2020, 17:17:59 PM
Don't know if this has been posted or not, but this is pretty good to drill down the data by country and apply filters and stuff..

Main thing it's missing is the ability to normalise the data against population to give a more equal view..

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

*Obviously it's only as good as the data input to it

Another one that displays the data in a simpler form. Note that the UK claim, as well of many other countries only includes tested cases, so tens of thousands of covid deaths will never have been recorded.

The infected rate is even more guess than data, and probably way out.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Re: Life after COVID-19
Reply #94 on: October 13, 2020, 10:47:39 AM
I quite like lockdowns, I'm an antisocial sod these days so I don't go to pubs etc.
I don't like people.  Years of working customer facing jobs will do that to you. 
I even like the social distancing.  Places I need to visit aren't as busy and I can't believe I used to let people breathe on me.

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Re: Life after COVID-19
Reply #95 on: October 14, 2020, 21:27:03 PM
In some areas hospitals are nearly full and the overflow ones have been told to get ready.

The reason they were not used much earlier in the year seems to have been the government managed to keep most elderly people who might have benefited from treatment in one in their communal care homes, which rapidly increased deaths there that could be hidden.

Boris seems to be putting off action, which could result in a much higher death toll than it could be. The Tories are again going for economy over people's lives.

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Re: Life after COVID-19
Reply #96 on: October 15, 2020, 08:58:39 AM
The Tories are again going for economy over people's lives.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't; the people losing their jobs, livelihoods, shops or potentially homes as well as their health probably hold a different opinion. This is a no-win situation for Bojo the rhesus monkey, there's no point pretending that another party would have managed the situation any better.

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Re: Life after COVID-19
Reply #97 on: October 16, 2020, 03:47:48 AM
The Tories are again going for economy over people's lives.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't; the people losing their jobs, livelihoods, shops or potentially homes as well as their health probably hold a different opinion. This is a no-win situation for Bojo the rhesus monkey, there's no point pretending that another party would have managed the situation any better.
Why I have never voted.


- No Party in the last 50 years as delivered over half of the policies and promises they set out in elections
- While a first year of delivering on some of the promises occur, over time tax goes back up, money you earn or benifits you may get goes down.

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Re: Life after COVID-19
Reply #98 on: October 21, 2020, 21:37:14 PM
The Tories are again going for economy over people's lives.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't; the people losing their jobs, livelihoods, shops or potentially homes as well as their health probably hold a different opinion. This is a no-win situation for Bojo the rhesus monkey, there's no point pretending that another party would have managed the situation any better.
That would depend on when the change happened in time.

Had 'another party' taken over at the last election there would have been minimal time. The one thing you can be sure of would be that Brexit would have been postponed until another referendum could be run. That would have pushed things back to June/July at the earliest. We would still be in the EU and able to use their resources fully. There would be no vast lorry parks being constructed. The money spent on Brexit could have been instantly ploughed into the NHS. People sick in OAP homes would have been moved into the special emergency hospitals that were barely used. Had the government simply reacted two weeks earlier rather than dithering the death toll might have been halved (not my prediction).

Take it back further to when Mrs Dopey May lost her majority. Had that election gone to 'another party' then they would have started investing in the NHS. Could have changed the tax burden to economic growth rather than 'austerity'. The NHS this year would have been better placed to deal with the influx of patients. They would have listened to the experts, paid competent companies to supply equipment rather than the fraud and scam schemes that the Tories pushed money into.

HELL the government might have actually been competent.

So yes, another government would have meant we were much better off now. You're welcome.

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Re: Life after COVID-19
Reply #99 on: October 22, 2020, 09:18:23 AM
That would depend on when the change happened in time.

Had 'another party' taken over at the last election there would have been minimal time. The one thing you can be sure of would be that Brexit would have been postponed until another referendum could be run.

...

Take it back further to when Mrs Dopey May lost her majority. Had that election gone to 'another party' then they would have started investing in the NHS...

Absolute speculation, neither of those things are certainties at all and especially in the case of another referendum; you can't just keep re-doing referendums every time you don't like the outcome, this is why they are not legally binding and have been the tool of fascists and demagogues.
Last Edit: October 22, 2020, 09:21:57 AM by Clock'd 0Ne #187;

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Re: Life after COVID-19
Reply #100 on: October 22, 2020, 20:50:22 PM
That would depend on when the change happened in time.

Had 'another party' taken over at the last election there would have been minimal time. The one thing you can be sure of would be that Brexit would have been postponed until another referendum could be run.

...

Take it back further to when Mrs Dopey May lost her majority. Had that election gone to 'another party' then they would have started investing in the NHS...

Absolute speculation, neither of those things are certainties at all and especially in the case of another referendum; you can't just keep re-doing referendums every time you don't like the outcome, this is why they are not legally binding and have been the tool of fascists and demagogues.
The Labour party manifesto when May got her election included improvements to the NHS. Labour has always put more money into healthcare, Tories have always tried to cut it to give their rich backers tax cuts.

When Blair got into office the national debt was about £500 billion. At the start of the financial crisis, triggered by US banks and investments, it was still about the same £500 billion. During the banking crisis UK borrowing doubled, meaning when Labour left office the country owed just over 1 trillion, but the economy was on the way up again. Had the Tories just continued Brown's plan GDP growth would have overtaken borrowing. Germany and France did go for growth, meaning they paid back the debt. UK went austerity, GDP growth stalled meaning that the £1 trillion debt is now over £2 trillion. That is not speculation that is economic fact.

As for the referendum. The UK courts agreed that it was fraudulent and undemocratic. The only reason that the courts didn't render it null and void was because the government was not bound by the result so could do whatever it liked, providing there was a vote for it in parliament. Luckily for those who really wanted to leave the Tories were against staying and so was Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn. The referendum was worthless, used as an excuse. Day before the result, a deal would be easy and better than remaining inside. The day after they changed that to leave with no deal.

Then I'm not saying we should have had referendums until we got one I liked the result of, that is irrelevant. The important bit would have been the government pushing the issue back as far as needed and ignoring it until the covid issue was over. That would have enabled them to spend far more time dealing with the crisis that couldn't be delayed.

Even if Jeremy Corbyn had won he still wanted us to leave the EU and he would have done his best to achieve that.

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Re: Life after COVID-19
Reply #101 on: October 23, 2020, 08:14:39 AM
I'm pretty certain we had a deadline to adhere to with regards to the EU, it wouldn't simply be a case of pushing it back unless the EU also agreed to this.

The link between growing national debt is tenuous too, I don't follow that growing debt means they would have invested in the NHS given the two are at odds, regardless of what hollow promises are written in manifestos.

Don't get me wrong, I think the Tory cabinet is as equal a shower of sh*t as the Labour cabinet, I'm certainly not defending the current state of play. But to assume Labour would have automatically fared better or stuck to promises is a bit naive, given the crippling deficiencies in higher brain function all ministers seem to have currently. God help us all.

We see the same cycle decade-in decade-out, swinging between the two parties and leading to equal misery. Its like football fans staunchly defending their favourite team when they absolutely suck balls and not being capable of showing respect to the other teams. If anything it's all a murky mirror of the US at present.

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Re: Life after COVID-19
Reply #102 on: October 24, 2020, 14:14:17 PM
I'm pretty certain we had a deadline to adhere to with regards to the EU, it wouldn't simply be a case of pushing it back unless the EU also agreed to this.

The link between growing national debt is tenuous too, I don't follow that growing debt means they would have invested in the NHS given the two are at odds, regardless of what hollow promises are written in manifestos.

Don't get me wrong, I think the Tory cabinet is as equal a shower of sh*t as the Labour cabinet, I'm certainly not defending the current state of play. But to assume Labour would have automatically fared better or stuck to promises is a bit naive, given the crippling deficiencies in higher brain function all ministers seem to have currently. God help us all.

We see the same cycle decade-in decade-out, swinging between the two parties and leading to equal misery. Its like football fans staunchly defending their favourite team when they absolutely suck balls and not being capable of showing respect to the other teams. If anything it's all a murky mirror of the US at present.

The EU would have inevitably agreed, only France might have balked a bit but it would have gone through if there was the potential of another referendum.

Tories have always resisted putting any money into the NHS. Check up on who actually increased spending the most (Labour). Latest lie is that there are 7810 more doctors. They changed the way staff are recorded so now students are included as doctors.

I would agree that all parties tend to suck, it's just that the Tories suck most, Liberals second, Labour least.

Again not what I disagreed with originally. You said nobody could have done any better. I could have equally said nobody could have done worse. Reality is nobody else had the chance and both are factually incorrect. The New Zealand PM did far better, South Korea did far better, so someone could have done better in the UK.

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Re: Life after COVID-19
Reply #103 on: October 24, 2020, 16:32:05 PM
If we're being strict on what I said, it was "no point pretending that another party would have managed the situation any better" - which I still stand by - as you can't compare the three countries of apples, oranges and plums (we're the bunch of plums). With hindsight its easy to see how this has progressed, we've fared about as well as anywhere in Europe though I do think the current measures are stupid and ineffectual. Unless you think labour would have thrown us into a strict 2 month lockdown on day one, closed all airports, etc the outcome would be about the same I reckon. We'll never know though!

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Re: Life after COVID-19
Reply #104 on: October 25, 2020, 12:18:11 PM
You have to consider what the government did against what the medical profession advised them to do and what the opposition would have done.

The government did not follow advice, they tried to skimp and save the economy. Unfortunately they failed to save people and they failed to save the economy. That is fact, not my idle estimation.

 "no point pretending that another party would have managed the situation any better" is false. It sounds like a Telegraph headline. I am not pretending, I know that the alternative would have managed the situation better.  The Scottish government certainly did as far as they were allowed.

At the very least they would have gotten a lot more PPE in quicker and not paid millions to scam companies owned by their rich friends.

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