Pixelmator (if you dont want to spend millions on Photoshop) - GIMP?
Im with Sam here. A text editor and FTP software are hardly great examples (TextPad is awesome in Windows btw). There are Windows equivalents for SVN Im sure.You cant tell me Photoshop is any better on a Mac than a PC for instance.

GIMP is the most godawful piece of crap I have ever seen. Usability wise.
Actually, they *are* great examples. People dont put effort into them on Windows, yet I spend eight hours a day inside my text editor, so it had better be freaking awesome.

Examples of "different for the sake of it"?The examples I used such as the cursor interface, the fonts, filesystem, etc. Theres no need for a lot of these things to be different (or at least to lack support for inter-platform compatibility). Microsoft manage it pretty well. Main Drive > Library > Fonts. Majority are in TTF format. Just because you dont know where something is does not make it hard. You could also have used the included Font Book app to find the ones you wanted.
That wasnt the main problem, it wasnt too hard to discover where the font library was. The main problem was getting it off the Mac - the font being Zapfino if youre interested - onto a PC and in a working format (converted to TTF), hence spending an hour reading guides. Then I had to use Yousendit to transfer the file as I couldnt simply copy it over the network.

What do you mean the cursor interface?
Fonts are fonts, nothing to do with Mac. I have Zapfino as a TTF, so I dont know what your issue was, nor why you couldnt transfer it across the network. That sounds like a user blaming the Mac because they dont know how to do something.
Whats wrong with the filesystem? Pretty standard UNIX derived layout.

My Magic Mouse and MBP trackpad have zero buttons, yet I can still left click, right click, middle click, scroll in any direction, use 2, 3 and 4 finger gestures, move back and forward in Finder and browsers, rotate images. Macs support as many buttons as your mouse has.
Well obviously its moved on now, but they could easily make those real buttons, so why not?

Because my parents get confused when theres more than one button.

Id rather have the time. I cant be arsed messing around with hardware these days.
Mesh, Dell, Alienware, etc? Speccing your own machine doesnt necessarily mean doing your own build. You can also lose the crap you dont want and save a bit of money over the Apple specs I would think?

I was specifically referring to upgrading, I cant be bothered anymore. Luckily with a Mac I dont need to because, even if I didnt buy a new machine every year, they dont feel dog slow four or five years later.

As for Mesh & Dell, their hardware is crap. And doesnt come with OSX.

Windows in a VM does the same. You, however, cannot test the same browsers as a Mac uses as they do have rendering differences to their Windows versions.
True enough, but then why would I want to spend the time configuring a virtual machine with Windows to render sites in the worlds most used browser, when I can cater to the 5% of Mac Safari users rendering issues with good CSS knowledge and browsershots.org? Seems like a step backwards in your time saving there

Maybe I just care a little more?

Yeah I dont really want to get drawn into writing essays as matts said. Youve answered most of the points now anyway.

Youve completely missed the mark on comparing software though - the idea was to compare like for like, not say Mac has x, y and z apps that are amazing, because Im sure if we sat down and thought about it every person here could come up with an amazing piece of freeware, shareware or paid for Windows app that does the job they want. The point I was making was, in a like for like comparison of two of the same app on different platforms, theres no difference really. Its not like the old days where DTP professionals would go on about needing a Mac as the software wasnt available for Windows.

As for the font issue, since Im clearly not a bit thick and know how to open a fonts folder and find a font regardless of OS, lets assume that Zapfino wasnt in TTF and had to be converted. What I dont understand is why I couldnt connect over network either, but I do dinstinctly remember trying, failing and then deciding it was somehow quicker to use Yousendit than fanny around on the Mac anymore.

So really, the thing that annoys me here with Macs is that people harp on about how easy and intuitive they are to use, but how many experienced windows/linux users point out theyve tried to use on and got nowhere with it? I dont consider something intuitive if it has to be explained to me the way you and Liam both say "you just dont know what youre doing". Yes thats exactly the point. It should be easy enough that if I dont know I can figure it out.

I think Windows has taken a backstep there too though so this isnt just Mac slating. Windows 7 is far less intuitive in many ways, I really hate a lot of the interface changes theyve made since XP, especially to Networking which was once a few set of easy to use panels and is now a series of questions, cryptic menus and hidden areas. Progression from DOS, to Win 3.1, to 95, etc was very easy as far as I remember. If you didnt know where something was the same basic rules always applied and it was easy to look for an find how to do something. Ive never had that experience using Mac OS back at that time.

But if I were new to using computers Id be scratching my head either way I think.

Wondered how long before it would descend into to something like this.

When I was at college, one of my photography lessons was spent with my lecturer teaching us all how to use an apple computer, you wouldnt need to spend a 2 hour lesson learning how to use microsoft would you?

You have obviously never taught an IT Clait course to someone who has never used windows then.

Just because you and mostly everyone else have used windows computers (mostly due to their mass popularity) forever doesnt mean they are easy to use. It only shows that people know how to use windows because it was all they use.

You would need far more than a 2 hour lesson to teach someone how to use Linux, have been in a few of those lessons (luckily I had some knowledge before the course).

The problem with the majority of the people on these boards are that they are either IT professionals or enthusiasts. This gives them a different jaded view of computers. To the average joe it is amazing how good a mac can be for their ease of use, the only problem being that if they go elsewhere they will more than likely come across a windows machine and not have a clue what to do.

The biggest plus for non-comp savvy people with macs are the apple stores. They are stocked with staff that are very knowedgeable about macs and are willing to help even the most idiotic mac user (and there are plenty). Nowhere in the PC market is there an equivalent full service and help (dont even think of mentioning PC World or I will just laugh at you).

Quote from: Beanissocoollike

When I was at college, one of my photography lessons was spent with my lecturer teaching us all how to use an apple computer, you wouldnt need to spend a 2 hour lesson learning how to use microsoft would you?

You have obviously never taught an IT Clait course to someone who has never used windows then.

Just because you and mostly everyone else have used windows computers (mostly due to their mass popularity) forever doesnt mean they are easy to use. It only shows that people know how to use windows because it was all they use.

You would need far more than a 2 hour lesson to teach someone how to use Linux, have been in a few of those lessons (luckily I had some knowledge before the course).

The problem with the majority of the people on these boards are that they are either IT professionals or enthusiasts. This gives them a different jaded view of computers. To the average joe it is amazing how good a mac can be for their ease of use, the only problem being that if they go elsewhere they will more than likely come across a windows machine and not have a clue what to do.

The biggest plus for non-comp savvy people with macs are the apple stores. They are stocked with staff that are very knowedgeable about macs and are willing to help even the most idiotic mac user (and there are plenty). Nowhere in the PC market is there an equivalent full service and help (dont even think of mentioning PC World or I will just laugh at you).

I could understand having to teach people how to use computers and whatnot in an IT based class, but in a photography class? It was my understanding that involved taking photographs, I would have thought if a lesson should be on anything technical it is either how to use a slr/dslr or the chemical process of developing film, not how to use the stupid mouse to right click and what exactly the use of the dashboard is other than to get in the way and annoy you.

I live near a novatech store, theyre pretty good at helping computer wise, but then when I have Nigel, I dont really need some bored half asleep uni student telling me everything theyve been trained to say to every customer that comes in.

I just dont like apple stuff, and I can tell you like them from the way you keep defending them, but isnt a bit unfair to force your opinion on everyone else, then taking theirs and trying to find faults with everything they say?

Shocking how this thread has turned out.

/Blames Sam for starting the PC/Mac war

And Niges last post was spot on!