Author Topic: Entropy  (Read 739 times)

  • Offline Pete

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Entropy
on: August 19, 2009, 23:04:32 PM
Can someone explain this to me. Ive read the idiots guide on wiki and Im still clueless.
I know sh*ts bad right now with all that starving bullsh*t and the dust storms and we are running out of french fries and burrito coverings.

Entropy
Reply #1 on: August 19, 2009, 23:27:38 PM
Quote from: random webside
Entropy describes the tendency for systems to go from a state of higher organization to a state of lowest organization on a molecular level. In your day-to-day life, you intuitively understand how entropy works whenever you pour sugar in your coffee or melt an ice cube in a glass. Entropy can affect the space into which a substance spreads, its phase change from solid to liquid to gas, or its position. In physics, entropy is a mathematical measurement of a change from greater to lesser potential energy, related to the second law of thermodynamics.

Entropy comes from a Greek word meaning, "transformation." This definition gives us insight into why things seemingly transform for no reason. Systems can only maintain organization on a molecular level as long as energy is added. For example, water will boil only as long as you hold a pan over flames. Youre adding heat, a form of kinetic energy, to speed up the molecules in the water. If the heat source is removed, we all can guess that the water will gradually cool to about room temperature. This is due to entropy, because the water molecules tend to use up their accumulated potential energy, release heat, and end up with a lower potential energy.

Temperature isnt the only transformation involved in entropy. The changes always involve moving from disequilibrium to equilibrium, consistent with moving to decreasing order. For instance, molecules always spread out to uniformly fill a container. When we drip food coloring in a clear glass of water, even if we dont stir it, that united concentration of a drop will gradually spread out until every part of the water has the same density of color.

Another type of entropy that has to do with visible motion (as opposed to the invisible motion of heat) involves gravity. Unless we put energy into a system, like an arm and a ball, by holding up an object, it falls toward the ground. An elevated position has higher potential energy. It gets converted into kinetic energy of motion as the object falls. The object always ends up with the position of lowest possible potential energy, such as resting against the floor.

In more technical terms, entropy is a specific value that measures how much energy is released in a system when it settles into the lowest potential energy. Entropy assesses the amount of disorder, understood as a change in heat, from an earlier point to a later point in time. This must happen in a "closed" system, where no energy leaks in or out. Theoretically, that can be measured, but practically it is very difficult to create an absolutely closed scenario. In the food coloring example given above, some of the food coloring solution might be evaporating, a separate process from the uniform distribution of a solute.


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  • Offline Clock'd 0Ne

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Re:Entropy
Reply #2 on: August 20, 2009, 00:38:37 AM
Entropy, how can I explain it? Ill take it frame by frame it,
to have you all jumping, shouting saying it.
Lets just say that its a measure of disorder,
in a system that is closed, like with a border.
Its sorta, like a, well a measurement of randomness,
proposed in 1850 by a German, but wait I digress.
"What the f**k is entropy?", I here the people still exclaiming,
it seems I gotta start the explaining.

You ever drop an egg and on the floor you see it break?
You go and get a mop so you can clean up your mistake.
But did you ever stop to ponder why we know its true,
if you drop a broken egg you will not get an egg thats new.

Thats entropy or E-N-T-R-O to the P to the Y,
the reason why the sun will one day all burn out and die.
Order from disorder is a scientific rarity,
allow me to explain it with a little bit more clarity.
Did I say rarity? I meant impossibility,
at least in a closed system there will always be more entropy.
Thats entropy and I hope that youre all down with it,
if you are heres your membership.

Chorus
You down with entropy?
Yeah, you know me! (x3)
Whos down with entropy?
Every last homey!

Verse 2
Defining entropy as disorders not complete,
cause disorder as a definition doesnt cover heat.
So my first definition I would now like to withdraw,
and offer one that fits thermodynamics second law.
First we need to understand that entropy is energy,
energy that cant be used to state it more specifically.
In a closed system entropy always goes up,
thats the second law, now you know whats up.

You cant win, you cant break even, you cant leave the game,
cause entropy will take it all though it seems a shame.
The second law, as we now know, is quite clear to state,
that entropy must increase and not dissipate.

Creationists always try to use the second law,
to disprove evolution, but their theory has a flaw.
The second law is quite precise about where it applies,
only in a closed system must the entropy count rise.
The earths not a closed system its powered by the sun,
so f**k the damn creationists, Doomsday get my gun!
That, in a nutshell, is what entropys about,
youre now down with a discount.

  • Offline Serious

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Re:Entropy
Reply #3 on: August 20, 2009, 01:42:37 AM
Entropy is simply the tenancy for stuff, specifically energy, to find the lowest possible level.

Example: pour some water into a tank and it doesnt just pile up in the middle but flows out to give a level surface. Once it has a flat surface you wouldnt expect it to normally gather back together either. Entropy does this for energy, it spreads out from hot spots and gradually they cool down.

Eventually in a system everything will be at the same energy level, this is the lowest entropy point. As we dont know the maximum available space in the universe its impossible to predict the point where entropy levels out like this, or if it ever will.

You cant normally get the reverse happening, energy gathering in one place but it can happen locally due to quantum fluctuations and black holes. These arent permanent, black holes leak energy too in the form of quantum particles appearing at their boundary (the antimatter particle falls in due to having less energy while the matter one escapes). Effectively you need more energy dropping into the black hole than is evaporating from it or it will eventually vanish.


Bit two: Because of the above you can never break even on efficiency, there is always some loss from what you put in in the form of heat or other radiation. This is why perpetual motion devices are pretty much guaranteed to be more Houdini than Einstein. Think of it as a universal built in energy tax.

Re:Entropy
Reply #4 on: August 20, 2009, 16:42:55 PM

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