quite simply under a "free" country the owner of an establishment should have the right to choose if they want to be a no-smoking venue or not.

There are a few no smoking bars round here, 3 IIRC and only one of them gets ever remotely busy.  If people felt so strongly about non-smoking bars then why didnt they open more up?

Ill keep going to a few of the pubs ive been using for years, but the 2 that have no option to allow smoking wont get my custom.  Nor will they get much in the way of other smokers custom as they wont cater for our requirements.   Those pubs with no option but to be completely non-smoking may survive quite well in some cases, but the little local pubs that are prevailent in my area will struggle.  The main clientel are people chilling out after a day at work, mainly working class and nearly all smokers.  If they cant smoke at their regular place they will move elsewhere.  This law wasnt thought out very well at all.  There should be an option for premises to apply for exception, unfortunatly there isnt in the case of bars.  Plus im mildy annoyed in that if i follow the letter of the law ill nolonger be allowed to smoke at home.  This is because both me and a mate do work from my house.  As such it is classed as a "place of work".  

So is the smell of second hand smoke

I think the main reason that "non-smoking" bars havent kicked off here are because theres too much competition with current bars, people know the bars they like so they stick to them. They will mostly all admit that things could improve if was a non-smoking bar, but they wont deliberately go out of their way to what could well be a crap bar to find out about one.

max - why did you start smoking?

you say you could quit any time?

why dont you then - are you really that stupid or are you simply too arrogant to realise that you may have an addiction.

You dont have to be an adict to smoke, my mum gave up with no adverse reaction at all. For a few its just a drug to help mellow the day.

In my case I cant get adicted at all, it just does nothing for me except give me sinusitis and a raging headache, which is why I have tended to avoid going into pubs. Perhaps when the ban gets going I will go to them more.

Quote from: M3ta7h3ad

So is the smell of second hand smoke

I think the main reason that "non-smoking" bars havent kicked off here are because theres too much competition with current bars, people know the bars they like so they stick to them. They will mostly all admit that things could improve if was a non-smoking bar, but they wont deliberately go out of their way to what could well be a crap bar to find out about one.

of the bars round here the only bar that is doing well for itself is a former bar anyway.  Bit of a "Place to be seen" type of bar.  He other two struggle for custom.  I wouldnt go in any of them anyway, they are dress  up places where jeans and boots are a definate no-no.

So you agree then See.. "non-smoking bar" isnt enough of an attraction for most people to change their favourite watering holes, however most of those people would say that if their favourite watering hole was non-smoking itd be great!

As for the "dressy up" stuff.. pah bollocks, yuppie wine bars. I prefer old pubs with barmaids that have bulging muscles in their right arm from hand pulling pints of real ale

Quote from: Beaker

quite simply under a "free" country the owner of an establishment should have the right to choose if they want to be a no-smoking venue or not.

There are a few no smoking bars round here, 3 IIRC and only one of them gets ever remotely busy.  If people felt so strongly about non-smoking bars then why didnt they open more up?

Ill keep going to a few of the pubs ive been using for years, but the 2 that have no option to allow smoking wont get my custom.

So if theres a blanket ban on smoking are you going to stop smoking in bars or are you just going to avoid all of them?

Im goginto use the bars that have comfey smoking areas outside, with awnings and heaters.    The nearest pub to my house wont be used at all anymore, i wont be able to have a cig in there.  I wander in some nights for a beer on my way home, i wont anymore.  Nor will most of the other guys who grab a pint and a cig on the way home.  

Nor can you ingest enough Nicotine to kill you in the space of a few hours.

Actually you can, a single packet can easily contain enough to kill someone, but the chances are you will feel far too ill to take any more before you get close to the level that will kill you. Nicotine is a very nasty substance.

Quote from: Beaker

not really, you dont get people ringing into work sick and saying they are ill if they smoke too much the night before.  Nor can you ingest enough Nicotine to kill you in the space of a few hours.  You are safe to drive after a cig, and you are unlikely to lash out and beat the hell out of someone if you smoke too much.

yes but it isnt going to give you lung cancer or kill you (unless you are a binge drinker) & it isnt affecting others around you either (again unless you are a binge drinker or a chav)

Alcohol _will_ kill you far more easily than cigs, plus im sure we have all seen mates get so plastered they needed taking home, or got took home by coppers or similar.  "Binge drinking" is also amusing me atm, what is a binge drinker?  according to the offical sources it is someone who has more than 6 points in an evening.  Ill normally have about that plus whisky and be perectly fine.  Last night for example i had 5 bottle of Brown with whisky chasers.  When i left the club my mates thought i was driving because my car was in the car park and i was "sober"!

Actually you can, a single packet can easily contain enough to kill someone, but the chances are you will feel far too ill to take any more before you get close to the level that will kill you. Nicotine is a very nasty substance.

most folks i know who smoke can easily chew through a full pack on a night drinking and not even feel quesy from it.  

Quote from: Beaker

Alcohol _will_ kill you far more easily than cigs,

so will driving too fast - it doesnt mean they are directly comparible in that respect

smoking causes lung cancer & harms others around you

alcohol - in moderation - is harmless

yes bar staff should be more responsible when serving drunk people but that is really a seperate topic - the fact is that having a pint of larger in the pub doesnt harm anyone else around you - having a fag does & also makes peoples clothes smell.

*sigh*

Im going to be forced to go outside and have a cig yes?  well into a covered area that will be provided for smokers.  

Having apint of lager doesnt harm anyone around you no, but then again nobody has _conclusively_ proved it doesnt either.  Similarly nobody has _conclusively_ proved that passive smoking is bad for you either.  Studies have shown that it "may" be a contributing factor.

If we stopped doing all the things people say are bad for us, and others around us then we would live in mud-brick huts, walk everywhere and grow our own food, in an ecologically friendly way without using chemicals.  Plus we wouldnt exactly smell nice either due to the fact fires to create the charcoal in soap would be deemed to be poisoning the atmosphere with Carbon emissions.  

Ill keep smoking thanks, ill do it where im allowed.  Ill also ignore or insult the non-smokers who come into the smoking area and complain.  If im not smoking in their space then they cant make me not smoke in mine.