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Chat => General Discussion => Topic started by: Serious on October 02, 2017, 19:34:52 PM

Title: Teresa May, forget Strong and Stable
Post by: Serious on October 02, 2017, 19:34:52 PM
Weak and feeble seems to be the new catchphrase. Seems she can't even say Boris Johnson is sackable. She avoids pretty much every question.

Her ministers are mouthing off all over the place, this isn't stable government, she has little or no control over them.

Which means either she's already lost it and they're looking for someone else to replace her, or, they are just keeping her hanging there as a scape goat in case it all goes wrong.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-41459686/theresa-may-cabinet-is-united-in-mission-of-this-government

Anyone think there is a credible replacement?

And some election analysis by the Tories...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41461057
Title: Re: Teresa May, forget Strong and Stable
Post by: Clock'd 0Ne on October 03, 2017, 06:53:28 AM
None of them are credible, but we created this sh*tshow ourselves so cheers everyone, ride it out :cheers:
Title: Re: Teresa May, forget Strong and Stable
Post by: Eggtastico on October 03, 2017, 07:26:20 AM
I dont think any part have an electable leader. Certainly not comrade corbyn.
May cant sack Boris because it would be downfall of her own political career as well. It would split the party.
That wont happen as the party should do everything possible to keep the mad dictator out of no 10.

It was always said she would only do the job until after we've left the EU & if she carries on fudging that up - I doubt if she'll be there by the next budget next year.
Especially with the soft-soft brexit approach - as other members who want to challenge a leadership race can go opposite for a harder approach to brexit.
Title: Re: Teresa May, forget Strong and Stable
Post by: matt5cott on October 03, 2017, 07:26:42 AM
Until exceptional people representative of the population are able to rise up and get a voice, which given the rancid state of the system is unlikely to be in the next couple of decades, politics, along with advertisements, "the news" and much more modern toss, are a distraction to stop you bettering yourself.
Title: Re: Teresa May, forget Strong and Stable
Post by: Eggtastico on October 03, 2017, 07:28:19 AM
Until exceptional people representative of the population are able to rise up and get a voice, which given the rancid state of the system is unlikely to be in the next couple of decades, politics, along with advertisements, "the news" and much more modern toss, are a distraction to stop you bettering yourself.

They dont exist. Politics is a career choice now. Its not full of life-experienced people who actually want to make the country a better place. Its about a job with a gravy train of wealth & they will do anything to cling onto their constituency.
How many politicians have held down a real 9-5 job, etc. & not projected somewhere into a white collar position.
Title: Re: Teresa May, forget Strong and Stable
Post by: Serious on October 03, 2017, 16:57:49 PM
That wont happen as the party should do everything possible to keep the mad dictator out of no 10.

Which one?I accept Corbyn isn't electable, but you have David Davis, Boris Johnson, Liam Fox, Gove, Jeremy Hunt - all of which are completely bonkers in their own way.

It was always said she would only do the job until after we've left the EU & if she carries on fudging that up - I doubt if she'll be there by the next budget next year.
Especially with the soft-soft brexit approach - as other members who want to challenge a leadership race can go opposite for a harder approach to brexit.

There is one little issue with that, the stuff Vote Leave put out is all garbage, lies, fake news. The Tories are sitting on over 50 reports that they wouldn't dare share with anyone, and it isn't because they put a rosy glow on Brexit. The one that was leaked predicted massive job losses in the NHS. DEFRA were asked for details of a food report on prices covering the 5 years after Brexit by Unite, they refused. The Tories are trying to treat everyone as mushrooms, hope you like the horse sh*t.

http://www.unitetheunion.org/news/government-suppressing-brexit-food-price-report/

That is why they are baulking at the prospect, they know how bad Brexit is going to be, forget the present 'Austerity'. This will destroy the Conservative party and possibly damage our economic future for the foreseeable future. Presently they have 12 months to finish the negotiations as the EU will require at least 6 months to ratify it. They are stuck, they need a trade deal with the EU but it would look very much like the status quo. That is why they are trying for an extension of 2 years.

Oh and that supposed 'special relationship' with the US? It's rather less special than a can of baked beans. Not so long ago the US slapped a 220% tariff on our steel exports to them, the WTO said it wasn't fair but otherwise didn't lift a finger. UK government went to the EU, who threatened tariffs on US products from swing states like Florida oranges. US backed down instantly. Trump is already hitting Canada with tariffs, and there is a trade agreement between them. Guess what would happen if we were out of the EU now. The deal Trump has in mind won't be fair or good for Britain, far from it.
Title: Re: Teresa May, forget Strong and Stable
Post by: Eggtastico on October 04, 2017, 10:21:54 AM
how many people do you think voted leave based on what they read?
There is a lot of resentment up, down & across the country towards EU people coming here.
Vast amount of people only vote on what they can see in & around them.
I live in a Labour stronghold. Anything from Tories tend to go in the bin - they even vote against tories for every opportunity. Why didnt Corbyn back one side or the other? As labour voters prob. would have backed them.
So thats a second type of voter.
Then you got the old people. The ones who voted in mass numbers. Why did they vote to leave in so many numbers? They are the ones who voted first time around to take us into the EU. The ones who have experienced all the changes.

As for a deal.... vote leave was to leave the EU & the single market. Not to be half in & half out. EU playing hardball because they got a very very weak hand. Team France & Poland are the ones pushing & pushing, because they have the most to loose. Who is going to pickup the UK tab when we leave? France. Who is currently the biggest benefactor of EU money? Poland. As for USA - they are an anomoly, they dont really need to trade with the rest of the world. They have enough of their own resources in food & fuel - so they are going to whack tarriffs on anything that threaten an industry which would lead to unemployment. Since you brought Steel up - look at the industry here. We need a Steel Tariff here.
Title: Re: Teresa May, forget Strong and Stable
Post by: Serious on October 04, 2017, 15:50:51 PM
People aren't anywhere near as isolated as you apparently think. They watched on the TV, or heard on radio or read in a newspaper or on social media. That usually included the side of a bus with the promise of £350 million back, which included the £100 million rebate we didn't pay and all the other money we get back. Tories and UKIP promised a quick and easy negotiation of a trade deal, after more than 6 months turns out it's extremely slow and horribly complex. We have about 750 other trade deals to renegotiate too, as well as sorting out huge amounts of legislation.

I agree a lot people feel resentment, people who didn't understand everything and were lied to by Conservatives and UKIP. EU workers don't just fill jobs, they create new additional ones and pour money into our economy. The maximum jobs limit is a myth and we don't have enough people to fill the jobs if the EU people all go home - you fancy gathering spuds for 6 hours a day as well as doing your present job? Germany and all the other EU countries enacted legislation to reduce the flow of workers from the ten new entrant countries, UK has never bothered, perhaps we should try using the tools we have rather than just throwing everything away?

Corbyn wants out so he can nationalise everything - not going to happen. The Tories want out so they can sell off the NHS and UKIP are mostly racists. Both Tories and UKIP are stuck with the idea of empire, and the UK could be powerful again - if only we could be separate from the EU. You can't be entirely separate, ECJ will still apply to all trade and EU law is presently being copied into UK law en-block. ECHR will still apply too, this is the court that says you can't deport terrorists/criminals, not the ECJ.

As for old people, ask them if they want to go back to before the NHS, and have to pay for doctor's appointments, hospital visit and everything else that's covered, in cash. The referendum gave the options leave or stay, not hard Brexit or soft Brexit. A huge number of people believed that leave would mean a deal for access to the single market, because that is what was promised. If it can't be delivered there should be another referendum, abandon Brexit or Hard Brexit, and see what the results would really be.
Title: Re: Teresa May, forget Strong and Stable
Post by: matt5cott on October 04, 2017, 15:58:36 PM
there should be another referendum

No really, there shouldn't.
Title: Re: Teresa May, forget Strong and Stable
Post by: Serious on October 04, 2017, 16:03:42 PM
there should be another referendum

No really, there shouldn't.

Absolutely no reason. In that case abandon Brexit. If you think that it's going to be 'good for Britain' then you have no idea. Tories are attempting to negotiate a 2 year extension for a reason.
Title: Re: Teresa May, forget Strong and Stable
Post by: Eggtastico on October 04, 2017, 16:45:01 PM
People aren't anywhere near as isolated as you apparently think. They watched on the TV, or heard on radio or read in a newspaper or on social media. That usually included the side of a bus with the promise of £350 million back, which included the £100 million rebate we didn't pay and all the other money we get back. Tories and UKIP promised a quick and easy negotiation of a trade deal, after more than 6 months turns out it's extremely slow and horribly complex. We have about 750 other trade deals to renegotiate too, as well as sorting out huge amounts of legislation.

I agree a lot people feel resentment, people who didn't understand everything and were lied to by Conservatives and UKIP. EU workers don't just fill jobs, they create new additional ones and pour money into our economy. The maximum jobs limit is a myth and we don't have enough people to fill the jobs if the EU people all go home - you fancy gathering spuds for 6 hours a day as well as doing your present job? Germany and all the other EU countries enacted legislation to reduce the flow of workers from the ten new entrant countries, UK has never bothered, perhaps we should try using the tools we have rather than just throwing everything away?

Corbyn wants out so he can nationalise everything - not going to happen. The Tories want out so they can sell off the NHS and UKIP are mostly racists. Both Tories and UKIP are stuck with the idea of empire, and the UK could be powerful again - if only we could be separate from the EU. You can't be entirely separate, ECJ will still apply to all trade and EU law is presently being copied into UK law en-block. ECHR will still apply too, this is the court that says you can't deport terrorists/criminals, not the ECJ.

As for old people, ask them if they want to go back to before the NHS, and have to pay for doctor's appointments, hospital visit and everything else that's covered, in cash. The referendum gave the options leave or stay, not hard Brexit or soft Brexit. A huge number of people believed that leave would mean a deal for access to the single market, because that is what was promised. If it can't be delivered there should be another referendum, abandon Brexit or Hard Brexit, and see what the results would really be.
Who believed what was on the bus? Actually... who believes any politician about  anything!
The bus said we send £350m a week to the EU.
Lets fund the NHS instead.
Where did it say it was all going to the NHS instead? That would not be possible as NHS are devolved in Scotland, NI & Wales - so how do they share that out?

That was assumptions.
Our net spend is about £70m a week. So that includes the rebate & the other money we get back. As for a trade deal - the vote was to leave the EU & EEC - Trade deal only came afterwards when it was mentioned about softening brexit. Voting to leave you knew there was no trade deal on the able & you would be out of the EEC & Single Market - So not sure how you can say that it was promised, when clearly stated a vote was to leave the single market. If a deal cant be delivered, then the country gets exactly what it was told its voting for. Leaving the EU & Single Market.


You say people was lied to - no they was not. A large part of voters was those who had already decided to vote leave due to the resentments. Another load because it was seen as a vote against tories.
That is exactly what happened in my part of the country. Labour stronghold for 100 years.
You can go back to the Vote to take us into the EEC - wasnt that also one big lie? We did not get to vote to move from the EEC to the EU. We didnt because the pro EU government knew they would lose a vote.


The biggest problem about the EU was the expansion of the 8-10 countries. Poland benefit by over £5 billion a year. Every expansion country get back more than they put in - so again, you can see why people think they get a raw deal of being a member of the EU. I have been to quite a few Eastern European countries & they are about 25-30 years behind is in infrastructure. It will be a long time before they are at a level that we enjoy today.


Again your mentioning NHS - its devolved. So tories could never sell off the NHS outside of England... Not unless they gain power in Hollyrood & Cardiff Bay!


Though the NHS is broken & needs streamlining. There is to much waste. Especially on prescriptions being handed out that are costing £5-£10 to the NHS for pills that can be bought over the counter cheaper!


The referendum gave the option to leave or stay. Not on condition or a promise of any EU trade deal or single market access. We've voted. We're leaving. To do a U-turn now would be bad for Britain. The EU would bully us at every opportunity.


I look forward to leaving & I look forward to France picking up our Tab.


Title: Re: Teresa May, forget Strong and Stable
Post by: Serious on October 05, 2017, 05:11:24 AM

Who believed what was on the bus? Actually... who believes any politician about  anything!
The bus said we send £350m a week to the EU.
Lets fund the NHS instead.
Where did it say it was all going to the NHS instead? That would not be possible as NHS are devolved in Scotland, NI & Wales - so how do they share that out?

Reality is our net spending on the EU is £192 million a week, and a lot of that is for help getting countries like Poland up and running properly after generations of economic neglect. Even then some of that is sent back. If we want a deal with the EU then we have to accept certain things. The ECJ being involved in trade is one of them. Reasonable freedom of movement is another. Legislation exists to control movement, Tony Blair didn't put it into effect here and neither did any other government since.

Watched Teresa May's keynote speech, I won't say it was bad, a lot of the Tories did though, and the newspapers. Unfortunately they didn't put it up.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-41507073

Boris has been busy too. Second one is fairly funny. Johnson being warned by the British ambassador and acting as a 5 year old.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41490174

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-41453375/boris-johnson-reciting-kipling-in-myanmar-temple-not-appropriate
Title: Re: Teresa May, forget Strong and Stable
Post by: Eggtastico on October 05, 2017, 07:56:08 AM
Reality is our net spending on the EU is £192 million a week, and a lot of that is for help getting countries like Poland up and running properly after generations of economic neglect. Even then some of that is sent back. If we want a deal with the EU then we have to accept certain things. The ECJ being involved in trade is one of them. Reasonable freedom of movement is another. Legislation exists to control movement, Tony Blair didn't put it into effect here and neither did any other government since.

Plus all the extra money Poland get from our benefit system. Its a well known to come over. signup. then go back home.  We dont owe 2nd world countries anything. How many factories & jobs have been lost because production has been moved from the UK for financial reasons?
Again, the talking about a deal. Nothing about a deal was mentioned when we was told we was having a referendum. We should leave. leave with nothing. Which is what was voted on & for. If the vote was to leave the EU, but to stay in the single market, keep migration allowable & all the other benefits of being in the EU - then what is the point of it all?

 We dont need to play fair. We will be much better once our government can state aid industries again.
Title: Re: Teresa May, forget Strong and Stable
Post by: matt5cott on October 05, 2017, 08:52:58 AM
there should be another referendum

No really, there shouldn't.

Absolutely no reason. In that case abandon Brexit. If you think that it's going to be 'good for Britain' then you have no idea. Tories are attempting to negotiate a 2 year extension for a reason.

I don't like either party, but there was a vote, it's done, finished, the people have spoken.

That said, I doubt the UK will ever leave anyway, look at Ireland/Greece, they had lots of votes too, -edit see eggs below- the "wrong answer"...

"Brexit" as I touched upon earlier is just a big distraction to keep the mass populace narrative in check, it's very well controlled and anyone who votes leave is masterfully put into an "idiot" box, the below is a good read up on Greece and of course the elephant in the room that is never really covered on TV (which thankfully nobody under 30 really watches) banks, and fraud,

https://renegadeinc.com/why-greece-took-the-fall-for-a-european-banking-crisis/
Title: Re: Teresa May, forget Strong and Stable
Post by: Eggtastico on October 05, 2017, 17:12:46 PM
there should be another referendum

No really, there shouldn't.

Absolutely no reason. In that case abandon Brexit. If you think that it's going to be 'good for Britain' then you have no idea. Tories are attempting to negotiate a 2 year extension for a reason.

I don't like either party, but there was a vote, it's done, finished, the people have spoken.

That said, I doubt the UK will ever leave anyway, look at Ireland/Greece, they had lots of votes too because they wanted to leave, which was the "wrong answer"...

"Brexit" as I touched upon earlier is just a big distraction to keep the mass populace narrative in check, it's very well controlled and anyone who votes leave is masterfully put into an "idiot" box, the below is a good read up on Greece and of course the elephant in the room that is never really covered on TV (which thankfully nobody under 30 really watches) banks, and fraud,

https://renegadeinc.com/why-greece-took-the-fall-for-a-european-banking-crisis/

The votes in Ireland was for the EU constitution. They voted twice no to it. So did France. So did the dutch. We did not get to vote, as it was reworded into what is now known as the Treaty of Lisbon & signed by Gordon Brown.
Title: Re: Teresa May, forget Strong and Stable
Post by: matt5cott on October 05, 2017, 20:06:03 PM
Cheers Egg  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Teresa May, forget Strong and Stable
Post by: Eggtastico on October 06, 2017, 08:13:03 AM
problem we have now is there is no 3rd party.
UKIP are done now we leaving the EU
Lib Dems are a laughing stock. Democratic - yet they want a 2nd vote.
Title: Re: Teresa May, forget Strong and Stable
Post by: Serious on October 06, 2017, 12:14:10 PM
The Greek issue is a lot more complicated than you would think. A combination of borrowing, tax evasion, corruption and 'creative accounting'. Worse some EU countries are doing very nicely out of it, with reduced interest payments more than offsetting the loans. Reality is Greece should never have been allowed to join the Euro. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_government-debt_crisis

As to it being over, with the vote. If a government official says, well you voted for Brexit, your new tax level is double, and your pension is cancelled, well you voted for it! Would you just be grateful or have an unholy row? The referendum was the start, not the finish. We still don't know what is going to happen. Things change, something that looks really good one day might, a couple of years later, turn out to be a can of worms you don't want to open. Problem is they didn't install any emergency brake. Lord Kerr on why he wrote Article 50, "In Britain there was, among Eurosceptics, the theory that one was tied to one’s oar with no escape and rowing to the unknown destination of ever-closer union. That Eurosceptic theory was always nonsense because you don’t need a secession article to secede. If you stop paying your subscription, stop attending the meetings, people would notice that you’d left.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/article-50-design-dictators-not-uk-eu-european-lisbon-treaty-author-lord-kerr-a7655891.html
http://uk.businessinsider.com/britain-does-not-need-to-trigger-article-50-to-leave-the-eu-2016-11

Which brings me back to what Egg said earlier about who believes politicians, seems a lot of people did. The very resentment came from propaganda spread by politicians and news agencies. This didn't just start when Cameron announced the referendum, it's been simmering away inside the Tory and Labour parties for decades. His hope was that a remain vote would shut the Brexiteers up and glue his party together again, that was never going to work. It's just nobody was stupid enough to bet the future of our country on a referendum because of outdated ideals going back to colonial Britain.

As Egg said a large part of the vote was because of resentment towards the Conservatives, not the EU. The EU are going to try to make as much of it as they can, regardless of us staying in or leaving. Cameron, rather than jumping off the side of HMS Great Britain, should have gone back to the EU and said, "look, this is the situation, what are you do to make it easier for me to have another one?"

Sovereignty, democracy and power, are things I have heard banded out far too often, you don't get any, I don't get any. All the power stays at the top unless they agree to dribble a little down, and it will never reach you. Mostly those at the top suck it up and it stays there, same with money.
Title: Re: Teresa May, forget Strong and Stable
Post by: matt5cott on October 06, 2017, 12:41:30 PM
Sovereignty, democracy and power, are things I have heard banded out far too often, you don't get any, I don't get any. All the power stays at the top unless they agree to dribble a little down, and it will never reach you. Mostly those at the top suck it up and it stays there, same with money.

Well said, trickle down anything, especially economics, is tripe.
Title: Re: Teresa May, forget Strong and Stable
Post by: Eggtastico on October 06, 2017, 16:51:37 PM
The Greek issue is a lot more complicated than you would think. A combination of borrowing, tax evasion, corruption and 'creative accounting'.
Portugal Italy Ireland & Spain are/was not far behind greece.
The Piggs countries.

As for corruption & creative accounting... People need to visit Eastern Europe.
Anything East of Germany & Italy should not have been allowed to join the EU in the numbers they did. It should have been staggered or a 2nd EU formed for them where certain things are not shared.
It flooded the market with cheap labour and has been a burden to the richer countries with a free healthcare system & to the Balkan States a luxerious welfare system.
Can Blame Blair for not putting measures in place, or you can blame the EU for rapid expansion.
Title: Re: Teresa May, forget Strong and Stable
Post by: Serious on October 07, 2017, 23:19:28 PM
Reality is our net spending on the EU is £192 million a week, and a lot of that is for help getting countries like Poland up and running properly after generations of economic neglect. Even then some of that is sent back. If we want a deal with the EU then we have to accept certain things. The ECJ being involved in trade is one of them. Reasonable freedom of movement is another. Legislation exists to control movement, Tony Blair didn't put it into effect here and neither did any other government since.

Plus all the extra money Poland get from our benefit system. Its a well known to come over. signup. then go back home.  We dont owe 2nd world countries anything. How many factories & jobs have been lost because production has been moved from the UK for financial reasons?
Again, the talking about a deal. Nothing about a deal was mentioned when we was told we was having a referendum. We should leave. leave with nothing. Which is what was voted on & for. If the vote was to leave the EU, but to stay in the single market, keep migration allowable & all the other benefits of being in the EU - then what is the point of it all?

 We dont need to play fair. We will be much better once our government can state aid industries again.

Fairly simple fix, make it so that only dependants in the UK count towards benefits. I think this was being sought just before Brexit.

The Greek issue is a lot more complicated than you would think. A combination of borrowing, tax evasion, corruption and 'creative accounting'.
Portugal Italy Ireland & Spain are/was not far behind greece.
The Piggs countries.

As for corruption & creative accounting... People need to visit Eastern Europe.
Anything East of Germany & Italy should not have been allowed to join the EU in the numbers they did. It should have been staggered or a 2nd EU formed for them where certain things are not shared.
It flooded the market with cheap labour and has been a burden to the richer countries with a free healthcare system & to the Balkan States a luxerious welfare system.
Can Blame Blair for not putting measures in place, or you can blame the EU for rapid expansion.

Nice idea, the EU thought of it before you. There is legislation allowing the EU countries to limit entry from Poland and the 9 other countries. Tory Blair didn't put it into action for the UK, neither did Brown or any of the Tories that followed. It could have been used at any time. Don't think that the rest of the EU doesn't have problems, the #open borders' idea is proving to be a real issue and liable for renegotiation at some point. UK has sea between us and the rest of Europe.

Legally refugees should register in the first country they enter when exiting their own. if anyone arrives and tries to claim refugee status here we can legally deport them instantly as they didn't register as they should have. I am sure we can build nice camps for them to wait in while they decide not to stay. Note that a lot of supposed 'refugees are actually economic migrants, who don't count and can be expelled back to where they came from.

Oh and a lot of this comes from the British support of USA action in Afghanistan, Iraq and elsewhere.
Title: Re: Teresa May, forget Strong and Stable
Post by: Serious on October 07, 2017, 23:48:12 PM
Lets see if this link to facebook works...

https://www.facebook.com/scientistsforeu/videos/1163941073707900/

As you probably have ni idea who this is Dr Mike Galsworthy, Senior Research Associate in the Department of Applied Health Research (DAHR)
Title: Re: Teresa May, forget Strong and Stable
Post by: Eggtastico on October 08, 2017, 08:28:12 AM


Fairly simple fix, make it so that only dependants in the UK count towards benefits. I think this was being sought just before Brexit.
Under EU law they was not allowed. That is what part of the Cameron tried to renegotiate.


Nice idea, the EU thought of it before you. There is legislation allowing the EU countries to limit entry from Poland and the 9 other countries. Tory Blair didn't put it into action for the UK, neither did Brown or any of the Tories that followed. It could have been used at any time. Don't think that the rest of the EU doesn't have problems, the #open borders' idea is proving to be a real issue and liable for renegotiation at some point. UK has sea between us and the rest of Europe.

Legally refugees should register in the first country they enter when exiting their own. if anyone arrives and tries to claim refugee status here we can legally deport them instantly as they didn't register as they should have. I am sure we can build nice camps for them to wait in while they decide not to stay. Note that a lot of supposed 'refugees are actually economic migrants, who don't count and can be expelled back to where they came from.

Oh and a lot of this comes from the British support of USA action in Afghanistan, Iraq and elsewhere.
Im not talking about limitations of movement. I said the number of countries should not be allowed. Its not just people movement, its the amount of money that is doled out for infastuture, subsidiaries, new buildings, etc. Just go look at the EU Motorway network to see how much road building has gone on to join up the EU.

As for regugees - EU dont see us as britain, france, germany, etc. - They see us as one nation & will disperse refugees to wherever they can put them or they want to go. It takes away the problem from the EU.
No problem with genuine refuegees - but its easy for someone to say they from anywhere that is not affected by war.
Title: Re: Teresa May, forget Strong and Stable
Post by: Serious on October 08, 2017, 09:39:06 AM
"Unlike France and Germany, which did not give migrants from the 10 countries which joined the EU in May 2004 full access to their labour market until 2011, the then-Labour government did not insist on any transitional controls."
"Under existing rules, citizens of other EU countries can be removed after six months if they have not found a job, have no realistic possibility of finding one, and require support from the welfare system."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41216679

We never put the rules we could use in place.  Cameron got a deal, just not quite the one he was after. Effectively the child benefits he wanted removed were instead linked to the country the child was living in, greatly reducing the expenditure but not eliminating it. As I said he could have went back after the referendum and asked for more.

The EU doesn't see us as one nation, It can't. The way the treaties are written they have to accept national sovereignty. There were plans before the referendum to make national sovereignty stronger. What the EU doesn't see is national borders, except a little with the UK. Some countries not in the EU have agreed to the freedom of movement to gain access to the market.

Edit: Just to point out when negotiating you should never just ask for what you want, you should always ask for at least twice what you want, plus some bits you know you aren't ever going to get, and then negotiate down.
Title: Re: Teresa May, forget Strong and Stable
Post by: Serious on October 08, 2017, 22:06:48 PM
Look what I found, just a few (about 688) myths created by British press and others aimed at the EU. I'm sure Egg will want to examine each one in detail...

http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/euromyths-a-z-index/
Title: Re: Teresa May, forget Strong and Stable
Post by: Serious on October 11, 2017, 15:23:51 PM
I did a little more research. Some facts....

It seems the government could have begun negotiating and finalised a deal BEFORE triggering Article 50.
The EU were really eager for Britain to trigger A 50 as soon as possible.
Michel Barnier- "I’m not hearing any whistling, just the clock ticking,"

It very much looks like A50 is a trap, and the UK government put it's collective heads straight in. EU doesn't need a deal, it needs the UK to suffer and make Brexit look a failure as an example to other countries that are thinking of leaving.