Author Topic: The end of Petrol cars has started  (Read 894 times)

Re: The end of Petrol cars has started
Reply #30 on: February 18, 2021, 17:22:04 PM
Is it though?  It all seems very short sighted, and I dare say the date will get pushed and pushed.  I don't disagree that burning dinosaurs has to come to an end, but in a lot of cases, the technology just isn't there yet.
Cars, sure.  Latest EV's will do the same range as your average petrol car on a tank.  I'm sure on an average trip that needs you to get out and fill up another tank for one leg of the journey, you'd be welcoming a stop off to stretch your legs.  Top off the car while you empty yourself and get something to eat.  Not much of a problem.  Expensive though for what they are.
Vans, meh, not really there yet.  Range isn't very good compared to what they are needing to do. and will rely on a range extender.  Taking up load space.
Busses, nope, not a chance, same as trucks. 
I can see merit in batteries being in the trailer for trucks, and have a smaller one in the cab.  Swap trailer at the destination for a fresh battery.  A lot are plugged in anyway for extra refridgerated storage.

One thing that's causing us some issue at the moment is a potential camper van purchase.  The wife isn't happy with diesel and the option for petrol is incredibly limited.
She's keen on Electric, but what she wants doesn't exist.  The range on new vans is poor vs a diesel van, half the places you may want to go will be away from charging points (can't use site hook up as they are usually limited to 10amp, and you need to run your van off it too)

There doesn't seem to be much progression from what I can see.


We have electric busses starting to replace other busses by the end of the year here in Sydney with a complete role out by 2030 across greater Sydney as the plan. COVID is noted to be delaying all this but busses over here at least will happen soon.

Are your busses the same as the ones in Canada, where they have electrification cables in the city, so when they get to main built up areas they can put the connection up and travel like trams?

I could see something working in the UK though, as our bus drivers only drive for about an hour before they stop for a break.  If they set off in the morning with a full battery, and when they stop at a terminus they can plug in to top up.
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Re: The end of Petrol cars has started
Reply #31 on: February 19, 2021, 04:15:06 AM
Is it though?  It all seems very short sighted, and I dare say the date will get pushed and pushed.  I don't disagree that burning dinosaurs has to come to an end, but in a lot of cases, the technology just isn't there yet.
Cars, sure.  Latest EV's will do the same range as your average petrol car on a tank.  I'm sure on an average trip that needs you to get out and fill up another tank for one leg of the journey, you'd be welcoming a stop off to stretch your legs.  Top off the car while you empty yourself and get something to eat.  Not much of a problem.  Expensive though for what they are.
Vans, meh, not really there yet.  Range isn't very good compared to what they are needing to do. and will rely on a range extender.  Taking up load space.
Busses, nope, not a chance, same as trucks. 
I can see merit in batteries being in the trailer for trucks, and have a smaller one in the cab.  Swap trailer at the destination for a fresh battery.  A lot are plugged in anyway for extra refridgerated storage.

One thing that's causing us some issue at the moment is a potential camper van purchase.  The wife isn't happy with diesel and the option for petrol is incredibly limited.
She's keen on Electric, but what she wants doesn't exist.  The range on new vans is poor vs a diesel van, half the places you may want to go will be away from charging points (can't use site hook up as they are usually limited to 10amp, and you need to run your van off it too)

There doesn't seem to be much progression from what I can see.


We have electric busses starting to replace other busses by the end of the year here in Sydney with a complete role out by 2030 across greater Sydney as the plan. COVID is noted to be delaying all this but busses over here at least will happen soon.

Are your busses the same as the ones in Canada, where they have electrification cables in the city, so when they get to main built up areas they can put the connection up and travel like trams?

I could see something working in the UK though, as our bus drivers only drive for about an hour before they stop for a break.  If they set off in the morning with a full battery, and when they stop at a terminus they can plug in to top up.


Nope,
They have happened here and were a disaster.
We have new trams in Sydney and more routes coming with Trams planned and NSW has an outline to start replacing all City Busses as I said with originally 2025 but now saying 2030
You can see one article on some of them here:
https://www.busnews.com.au/industry-news/2012/australias-largest-order-of-e-buses-placed-to-date

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Re: The end of Petrol cars has started
Reply #32 on: February 19, 2021, 04:16:02 AM
My Brother In-Law works for Mercedes high up in NZ and they been told internally that there will be a likely official outline and announcement but that they will be all Electrical sooner than later.
Last Edit: February 21, 2021, 23:24:19 PM by neXus #187;

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Re: The end of Petrol cars has started
Reply #33 on: February 22, 2021, 17:14:00 PM
Seems there is a new breed of cheaper electric cars for under £20,000. China has a 60mph city wagon for well under $6K, although could well end up being proven a death trap if tested for EU/American markets. France has a 30MPH oddity for about E6,000, although it looks horrid to me. Ranges seem to be between 70-120 kilometres, enough for most daily commuting but not long distance stuff.

They are also trying to get a new process up and running to purify lithium to increase efficiency from 30% to 90%.

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Re: The end of Petrol cars has started
Reply #34 on: February 22, 2021, 17:43:12 PM
China has a 60mph city wagon for well under $6K, although could well end up being proven a death trap if tested for EU/American markets.

Seems a bit unfair, what's that based on? Most of the higher NCAP ratings now are about driver aids for mongs that shouldn't be on the road - like lane assist - not actual safety features.

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Re: The end of Petrol cars has started
Reply #35 on: February 23, 2021, 03:12:11 AM
China has a 60mph city wagon for well under $6K, although could well end up being proven a death trap if tested for EU/American markets.

Seems a bit unfair, what's that based on? Most of the higher NCAP ratings now are about driver aids for mongs that shouldn't be on the road - like lane assist - not actual safety features.
True


The other big take away though is that Companies and Governments (less so) are finally going electric and setting goals and green energy is really making ground. With that though....


- Battery tech is still lagging behind so it really needs big investment so more people going down the root for electric cars and everything else hopefully this gets the boost it needs


- Many of the Old rich are in Fossil Fuels. Australia's government ultimately is run by old school media (Murdoch Money) and Coal. These pay the Government pockets basically hence the whole google news facebook news. It is not about what is right or not, it is purely old media vs new.


- That leads to these old school rich and just how out of touch they are. Against all the new in part because it harms their business but they have not and many refused to adapt to changing times and quashing small start ups and so on for years has only got so far and now they are stuck loosing money as everyone else moves around them and they can only lean into the government politicians they fill the pockets with.
Another good example is Texas. Republican ran through and through since pretty much the birth of America. Built their own power grid to avoid lots of stuff, maximise profit and so on. Warned 10 years ago with the last bad winter, ignored it and messed up on multiple levels as a result. Using the media and politicians though making the big push to blame a Green deal that is not even in place for the state and green energy to be at fault. Of course it wasn't and it was all the fossil fuel power stations and other failings all of their own making. My point being though using their politicians  and old school media to fight their failings rather than actually evolving and moving with the times.


- A lot of the old shcool mega rich though are falling further down the rich lists and of course getting older and older and will not be around for that long. I think there are plenty of bumps in the road but I think there is enough to have hope for the future. I think the US election was a lot to do with the old America and people VS everyone who finally want to move on. America can not stick to it's old ways, it costs too much (well not for the rich) and is just outdated that hurts them.

Re: The end of Petrol cars has started
Reply #36 on: February 24, 2021, 12:53:18 PM
Seems there is a new breed of cheaper electric cars for under £20,000. China has a 60mph city wagon for well under $6K, although could well end up being proven a death trap if tested for EU/American markets. France has a 30MPH oddity for about E6,000, although it looks horrid to me. Ranges seem to be between 70-120 kilometres, enough for most daily commuting but not long distance stuff.

They are also trying to get a new process up and running to purify lithium to increase efficiency from 30% to 90%.

Can't be that dismissive of Chinese car manufacturers, look at who they are.
Maxus (LDV), MG, Rover, Geely, Volvo, London Taxi International, Great Wall etc.  All have joint ventures with the more traditional manufacturers the world over.
Granted, I think there is a lot of copying of homework when you look at some of the cars, but that's not that dissimilar to how a lot of other companies started out.
The fact that China is actively encouraging alternative fuel use speaks volumes.

Most likely the reason these cars are so much cheaper is that the labour is considerably cheaper than here in the west and tariffs are likely lower.
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Re: The end of Petrol cars has started
Reply #37 on: February 24, 2021, 23:49:40 PM
Seems there is a new breed of cheaper electric cars for under £20,000. China has a 60mph city wagon for well under $6K, although could well end up being proven a death trap if tested for EU/American markets. France has a 30MPH oddity for about E6,000, although it looks horrid to me. Ranges seem to be between 70-120 kilometres, enough for most daily commuting but not long distance stuff.

They are also trying to get a new process up and running to purify lithium to increase efficiency from 30% to 90%.

Can't be that dismissive of Chinese car manufacturers, look at who they are.
Maxus (LDV), MG, Rover, Geely, Volvo, London Taxi International, Great Wall etc.  All have joint ventures with the more traditional manufacturers the world over.
Granted, I think there is a lot of copying of homework when you look at some of the cars, but that's not that dissimilar to how a lot of other companies started out.
The fact that China is actively encouraging alternative fuel use speaks volumes.

Most likely the reason these cars are so much cheaper is that the labour is considerably cheaper than here in the west and tariffs are likely lower.


- Some of the reasons why companies are actually pulling out of China is that they have to give the Chinese government all the plans for the product. These then just instantly get used to make copies.
- I am glad China is talking more green, they still have lots of resources but things like the Smog regardless of what it is doing to people and cities when it hits the world news it makes them look bad and in a lot of ways that government cares more about image than anything else. (I know in other cases they also kind of do not care, but China is a weird place in this regard)

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Re: The end of Petrol cars has started
Reply #38 on: March 03, 2021, 10:16:10 AM
China has a 60mph city wagon for well under $6K, although could well end up being proven a death trap if tested for EU/American markets.

Seems a bit unfair, what's that based on? Most of the higher NCAP ratings now are about driver aids for mongs that shouldn't be on the road - like lane assist - not actual safety features.

It actually doesn't look too bad although only apparently being sold in China. They apparently teamed up with General Motors. This could be a game changer in cities if allowed into UK/EU/America.

I agree there are plenty of mongs on the roads, but then you have plenty of mongs in the UK Tory party in government.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ytqr8T05OU

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Re: The end of Petrol cars has started
Reply #39 on: March 03, 2021, 10:27:39 AM
Seems there is a new breed of cheaper electric cars for under £20,000. China has a 60mph city wagon for well under $6K, although could well end up being proven a death trap if tested for EU/American markets. France has a 30MPH oddity for about E6,000, although it looks horrid to me. Ranges seem to be between 70-120 kilometres, enough for most daily commuting but not long distance stuff.

They are also trying to get a new process up and running to purify lithium to increase efficiency from 30% to 90%.

Can't be that dismissive of Chinese car manufacturers, look at who they are.
Maxus (LDV), MG, Rover, Geely, Volvo, London Taxi International, Great Wall etc.  All have joint ventures with the more traditional manufacturers the world over.
Granted, I think there is a lot of copying of homework when you look at some of the cars, but that's not that dissimilar to how a lot of other companies started out.
The fact that China is actively encouraging alternative fuel use speaks volumes.

Most likely the reason these cars are so much cheaper is that the labour is considerably cheaper than here in the west and tariffs are likely lower.


- Some of the reasons why companies are actually pulling out of China is that they have to give the Chinese government all the plans for the product. These then just instantly get used to make copies.
- I am glad China is talking more green, they still have lots of resources but things like the Smog regardless of what it is doing to people and cities when it hits the world news it makes them look bad and in a lot of ways that government cares more about image than anything else. (I know in other cases they also kind of do not care, but China is a weird place in this regard)

There are obvious cost cutting issues to get it that low, such as no airbags and no rear seats or no storage. Doesn't mean it couldn't be put in other markets but might need some work and a price increase. Then you have UK/EU taxes and tariffs.

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Re: The end of Petrol cars has started
Reply #40 on: March 04, 2021, 01:49:39 AM
They have to also pass the safety tests and England's are some of the most strict.

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