Author Topic: Working perpetual motion machine?  (Read 4985 times)

  • Offline neXus

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Re:Working perpetual motion machine?
Reply #45 on: July 06, 2007, 12:24:46 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6272752.stm

Well not a  perpetual motion machine and only produces a small amount of power but it still takes the world and what it is and magnetics and some people in here out right saying it is not doable a bit wrong

Working perpetual motion machine?
Reply #46 on: July 06, 2007, 12:26:32 PM
but thats the same as saying a nuclear reactor is a perpetual motion machine.


like comparing apples to tables.

  • Offline Mardoni

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Working perpetual motion machine?
Reply #47 on: July 06, 2007, 12:34:18 PM
And apparently it doesnt work in a non-lab environment...

http://www.steorn.com/news/releases/?id=1001

Theyve pulled the public demo "until further notice" due to unexpected heat/enviromental influences causing the system to fail.

Shame really as I was quite excited to see it :(

  • Offline neXus

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Working perpetual motion machine?
Reply #48 on: July 06, 2007, 12:51:36 PM
Quote from: Nimrod
And apparently it doesnt work in a non-lab environment...

http://www.steorn.com/news/releases/?id=1001

Theyve pulled the public demo "until further notice" due to unexpected heat/enviromental influences causing the system to fail.

Shame really as I was quite excited to see it :(


Indeed, till they show it working or not working in public I will hold out but I doubt it

Re:Working perpetual motion machine?
Reply #49 on: July 06, 2007, 14:50:48 PM
Quote from: neXus
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6272752.stm

Well not a  perpetual motion machine and only produces a small amount of power but it still takes the world and what it is and magnetics and some people in here out right saying it is not doable a bit wrong


Saw that article this morning, those have been in the pipeline for ages and its good to see stuff like that getting an airing.  I gave a presentation on them 3 years ago, good to see them maturing (or not, as the case may be)...

Opens up the way for some pretty serious advances in ubiquitous computing, couple them with ultra-low power wifi transcievers and youve got a great platform for building stability sensing, stock taking, production line process control, environmental measurements...  the possibilities really are endless.  Assuming you have an A/C duct or similar to glue them to of course ;)

  • Offline Edd

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Working perpetual motion machine?
Reply #50 on: July 06, 2007, 14:50:56 PM
quel suprise

Re:Working perpetual motion machine?
Reply #51 on: July 06, 2007, 14:53:05 PM
Aye.  I remember last time this did the rounds a lot of people (myself included) figured the whole thing for a publicity stunt.  Lets face it, who ever heard of Steorn before?

  • Offline Edd

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Working perpetual motion machine?
Reply #52 on: July 06, 2007, 14:56:24 PM
sorry fc9k i just wanted to annoy nexus by saying the "perpetual bullsh*t machine" was a flop

  • Offline neXus

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Re:Working perpetual motion machine?
Reply #53 on: July 06, 2007, 15:00:03 PM
Quote from: funkychicken9000
Quote from: neXus
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6272752.stm

Well not a  perpetual motion machine and only produces a small amount of power but it still takes the world and what it is and magnetics and some people in here out right saying it is not doable a bit wrong


Saw that article this morning, those have been in the pipeline for ages and its good to see stuff like that getting an airing.  I gave a presentation on them 3 years ago, good to see them maturing (or not, as the case may be)...

Opens up the way for some pretty serious advances in ubiquitous computing, couple them with ultra-low power wifi transcievers and youve got a great platform for building stability sensing, stock taking, production line process control, environmental measurements...  the possibilities really are endless.  Assuming you have an A/C duct or similar to glue them to of course ;)


Is it possible to get much more power from this sort of thing or is it rally the future of mobile devices like mobile phones etc?

Working perpetual motion machine?
Reply #54 on: July 06, 2007, 15:02:05 PM
its more a generator. theyve had vibration generators in seiko watches for ages. they are just calling it a perpetual motion machine because it generates a glint of false hope.

for it to work the same in a heart the mechanical heart would have to be tres efficient.

Re:Working perpetual motion machine?
Reply #55 on: July 06, 2007, 15:21:30 PM
I think youre missing the point a bit (assuming youre talking about the scavenging generator rather than the Steorn bollocks), the scavenging generator wasnt ever touted as a PMM.  Also Im pretty sure its not going to become the basis of a pacemaker power system for the time being, although I could be wrong there.  Id say it will start off more in the biosensor area, where you dont need hefty voltage conversion.

Seiko kinetic watches are a different kettle of fish, more than likely they use rotating weights to turn axial generators and charge a capacitor.  Thats simple, as you can rely on the weight to spin pretty well when a person is swinging their arms to walk.  The same approach would be very difficult to use with low-amplitude vibration, and thats why this more than likely has an element of mems-style silicon cantilevers and clever magnet placement etc.

As for how much power it can scavenge, it all depends on the efficiency of the conversion mechanism, the strength of the magnets, permittivities and permeabilities, etc.  Also it will also heavily hinge on the vibration of the system its attatched to; more than likely it will be mechanically optimised for certain vibrational modes and frequencies, so something thats nice and predictable in that respect would yield good results.

At the same time, vibrations mean noise so A/C companies have a vested interest in reducing them of course ;)

Working perpetual motion machine?
Reply #56 on: July 06, 2007, 16:03:52 PM
ill take six.

  • Offline SteveF

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Re:Working perpetual motion machine?
Reply #57 on: July 11, 2007, 18:10:16 PM
Quote from: Serious
Whos talking about laws changing? Im talking about theories. Mind the universe certainly does have to take into account everything the great God SteveF has to say, that is obviously unbreakable law. Sorry to piss on your nice ideal but the universe doesn’t care who you are, or what your theories or laws are.


Quote from: Serious
Issue is SteveF claims that the laws never change, I would counter that and say they have just never been observed to change so far. Who is right? In a way it isnt a case of right or wrong, its who covers themselvess with Teflon. The probability is we are both are right, but if they are observed differences that turn up in a couple of billion years then I would be still right and SteveF would be proven wrong. Are they the same in a singularity? How about at the beginning of time? :shrug:

My attitude here has always been to talk in generalities that can be interpreted in as wide a number of ways as possible and toast anyone who makes an assumption as to what is meant.

Steve tries to talk pure science fact, I talk cardplay. Usually I win cause I cover my butt more and cant be pinned down when I get it wrong :twisted:

I certainly wouldnt be able to stand up to him in his specific subject, but on general physics I have an even chance.

Quote from: FaT LeoN
Plays - E=Mc Hawkings - Entropy[1].mp3


/plays **** the creationists.mp3  :mrgreen:

Meh - if you want to take the thread personal go for it.  I guess Ill just have to blunder around and note that all my posts have 5 star ratings and all yours seem to have 1 star ratings.  If someone explaining the other side means you take it to a personal attack then I retract my comment about you seeming a bright lad at the start of this diatribe.

I tried to explain something.  If youre happy with your model and it works for you then run with it.  Im sure itll serve you well and mine will work for me. :)

If Im honest I think you cant fault me for saying 100% what I believe.  Im not skirting around the issues. Im not being vague and Im even giving you the opportunity to prove me wrong and telling you what would be required to do so.  By saying clearly stating what I (and to be frank every scientist) believes to be true is about as fair as I can make this.

Im giving specific examples and the unknown cases, Im even saying that if you (or anyone else in the world) can find even one example in the universe that disproves anything Ive said then Ill eat my words.  Im not hiding behind vague things like what ifs or simply (as you are) saying I just think youre incorrect without explaining why.  If you can show any fault in what Ive said then please let me know.  At that point Im with you 100%, willing to learn and will be writing a book on it.

The point is, you cant.


  • Offline Serious

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Re:Working perpetual motion machine?
Reply #59 on: July 11, 2007, 19:36:11 PM
Quote from: SteveF

If Im honest I think you cant fault me for saying 100% what I believe.  Im not skirting around the issues. Im not being vague and Im even giving you the opportunity to prove me wrong and telling you what would be required to do so.  By saying clearly stating what I (and to be frank every scientist) believes to be true is about as fair as I can make this.


It wasnt what you said, someone else read my post and assumed I had said something I hadnt. Then you followed on without thinking if they were right or wrong. There have been dozens of threads on here where someone says something in the first post and a few posts later they are either misinterpreted or another poster ignores what they have said completely. OTOH you cant exactly diss me for covering my butt.

Quote

Im giving specific examples and the unknown cases, Im even saying that if you (or anyone else in the world) can find even one example in the universe that disproves anything Ive said then Ill eat my words.  Im not hiding behind vague things like what ifs or simply (as you are) saying I just think youre incorrect without explaining why.  If you can show any fault in what Ive said then please let me know.


Pretty much what I have said. There have been many instances of scientists who have produced stuff that looks good but has been proven to be made up out of whole cloth. You cant depend on others to be as upright and honest as you are. Most theories are now in the same dustbin that the world is flat occupies, they cant all be right, there are far too many of them.

Quote

At that point Im with you 100%, willing to learn and will be writing a book on it.

The point is, you cant.


Im actually pretty well up on the theories, I need to be for the SF books I write, and they are based on facts. Latest ive had a look at is string-net liquid, most are damn confusing or counter intuitive at least in part. Things happen that I at least wouldnt expect. One scientist indicated a theory to me and said it "wasnt anywhere near mad enough" and Im pretty sure he wasnt kidding me either. The issue now isnt so much what happens, which is where the laws are, but how and why.

One of the biggest items that was brushed under the carpet by science is how the Big Bang works, there are a few possibilities, removing gravity is one of them, but in most cases you dont have a Bang at all, not as originally described, and if you dont have a get around you end up with a perpetual singularity.

BTW I never look at the ratings, the only people who bother most of the time are trolls  :mrgreen:

/waits for single star :P

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