Tekforums
Chat => Photography => Topic started by: zpyder on April 14, 2012, 19:04:02 PM
-
Out of boredom and curiosity I've built a frame to attach a waterproof camera to, along with dive torch and bait. My test run was Mudeford Quay today, which is only about 3-5m deep. It worked quite well given how murky the water is!
Not a valid youtube URLFirst attempt - Nice and clear except for some seaweed!
http://youtu.be/5-hpxYgJW88?hd=1
Not a valid youtube URLMoved along the quay a bit to where it was deeper and more murky, but got a number of crabs on camera
http://youtu.be/M11Uka_D7ng?hd=1
Not a valid youtube URL
Secondary camera, got a good view of the side of the quay, and caught a crab off guard half way through!
http://youtu.be/0fwc5xGY9S4?hd=1
-
Cool, it's nice down Mudeford.
-
This is awesome. I wish I made more time to start and finish projects I'd thought of.
You must have been pleased when you saw it come up the first time with a load of crabs attached.
What are your plans for it?
-
Yeah it was pretty cool, though I was also worried about the seaweed. Annoyingly YouTube has "improved" the videos to reduce shake and improve brightness, pretty much making them look toxic neon yellow and doing weird things with the shake. Hopefully it'll revert back in a bit!
My plan is to maybe try Pool Quay at some point. I thought the Alternative camera worked quite well too. It'd be good to develop it so that there's an element of control, so you could make sure it it facing the pontoons etc. This would be useful for doing quick surveys of the marine life in marinas.
I also want to replace the camera with something that can do more than 20 minutes of video at a time. Maybe a Pentax. Once the videos are sorted I'm going to contact the different manufacturers in the slim hope they might want to provide one of their cameras for a comparison, and as a promotional thing to show what they can do.
Failing that, I might see about applying for some grants. The cost of these cameras is peanuts really, unless I want a decent camera + waterproof housing. There's a lot of applications, if I got a Pentax you can do a timelapse thing, so I could set it to take a picture every x seconds for several hours and then leave it. This would be useful for seeing how long it takes the wildlife to return to a site post-disturbance, as a lot of ecology is to do with trapping animals to see what is in the area.Obviously the results could be biased if you set a trap for 3 hours and it takes 5 hours for some things to come back to where the humans were setting up the trap...
-
Nice work on this! If you had the money I'd say check out the http://gopro.com/camera-accessories/replacement-hd-housing/ (http://gopro.com/camera-accessories/replacement-hd-housing/) with a Hero 2, the quality on these is fantastic, depends if you like the wide angle footage it takes or not though
-
It's an option, I'm going to be approaching different companies regarding sampling/reviewing kit, don't know if any will, but worth a punt. Failing that I might see about some scientific research grants, but generally they exclude the purchase of equipment. The go pro would be great for deeper water stuff, and wouldn't surprise me if they're what will be used on a similar project at Boscombe Surf Reef this year.
-
Cool idea, amazing how many crabs you manage to get in a short space of time will be interesting to see what you manage to get over a few trips.
-
The annoying thing was the amount of time I had because of the camera limit on video. Quite often in the videos I took not much happened for the first 5 mins, then 5-8 minutes quite a few turn up. A couple of times I left it for 10-12 minutes and right as I lifted it out of the water you could see maybe 10-15 crabs turning up. Would be good to leave it for 20+minutes!
-
Could try a contour roam for cheaper hd and more mounting options (lens rotates a full 360). They're brilliant vids.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk
-
Would be good, but needs more than 1m of waterproofness. The GoPro HD looks good though with the depth thing.
I'm going to email all the different companies and local camera shops and see if anyone wants to sponsor/supply equipment to test, either for free or discount. Worth a shot haha.
-
There is a waterproof case available for it that takes it to 60mtrs.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk
-
I'm going to email all the different companies and local camera shops and see if anyone wants to sponsor/supply equipment to test, either for free or discount. Worth a shot haha.
Anything for free gear to 'test'!
-
Unsurprisingly I've not heard back from the companies I've contacted...so I'm wondering if you guys have any suggestions on other places to contact? I was pondering the camera magazines as they might be interested in an artical on a novel use of the tough cameras potentially.
So far on the contact list is:
Pentax
Jessops
Castle Cameras
I'm hoping just by the nature of the request it might take them longer to respond. Would have thought Jessops would as it went through their "educational" channel so at the very least I'd expect an email regarding educational discount or something...
I will probably contact GoPro and Contour too this evening.
-
might take a bit more effort and you'd maybe need to alter the housing (running a risk of it letting water in) - but why not look into run a cable to a laptop, getting that white frame out of view, maybe dropping the bait on a separate line and then attempting to capture some photos.
-
It'd be easy to not have the frame in view, but I kinda wanted it in the video as it gives a size reference (sort of). It was just the initial run anyway, to see if it'd work, which it does! Lots to have a play with.
I'd love to have a feed to a laptop, would be brilliant to somehow make a budget ROV!
-
Just get a HD USB webcam and a long lead and stick it in a sealed box?
-
Contour Plus (top end camera) has waterproof casings you can buy and bluetooth transmission of video to phones.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk 2
-
Just get a HD USB webcam and a long lead and stick it in a sealed box?
this is prob the easiest.
One of them microsoft life camera's - or a few & feed them in to CCTV capture device & software so you could have 4 camera's going.
Cant you get some sort of marine grant?
-
might be worth talking to SRS Microsystems in Watford re the sponsorship/discounted gear idea. Probably a long shot, but the boss (Chris) is a decent bloke so you'll probably at least get a reply even if it's in the negative. It's a proper independent camera store so if Chris likes you and your idea he doesn't have to ask anyone for permission, which is always handy.
-
RE: Bluetooth, wouldn't there be an issue with signal loss through water?
An RE: Usb cables, I thought there was a very limited length of cable you can get away with there too?
I've now got a PowerShot S100, and a housing is on its way. Hopefully this will be enough to get something done, and from there have a stronger case to get a grant for experimenting with USB stuff. I've sadly missed most grant deadlines for this year, lots of others stipulate it's not for the purchase of equipment (I guess lots of people try to get grants to buy expensive stuff for other things, whereas really the equipment is the property of the grant giving agency).
-
ohhhh, waterproof CCTv cameras are the normal...
if you use IP cameras you don't need anything fancy to connect them to (just plug into network port)
and you can get pretty awesome cameras which are a few mega pixels for not daft money...
I've got a mix of cameras at work... some £12 in places which arn't important.... and they're not far short of TV quality :-)
no idea how you'd seal the network connector going into the camera.... but it's not such a big deal... bit of epoxy etc.. ?
-
With a suitable waterproof clear plastic box and some waterproof tank sealant it shouldn't be a problem. Drill a hole through, pass in the cable, seal around it and put the camera in.
-
An RE: Usb cables, I thought there was a very limited length of cable you can get away with there too?
Yes there is, though you should be OK for 3 meters. Not sure you need a grant... if you're willing to take the risk then why not try customising the housing.
-
Will need more than 3 meters, it's often 3 meters till it actually gets to the water from the quayside!
-
I know people who have carried out runs on USB much much longer than 3m, probably closer to double that if that helps, maybe use a network camera, you could use one of those that you could move and stick it in a bell jar :).. Cat5 will be good for 100m
-
I would agree that cat 5 cable would be much preferable to USB if it needs a good distance. There are cameras that can use a network to transmit data and they often have low light options.
The issue is it would be more expensive.
-
Well, I'll see how I can get on with my current set up.
I agree the Cat5 network CCTV idea is the best bet. Maybe if I can get something half decent with the canon, I'll have something good enough to apply for a small grant next year with a Marine Natural History Society. They say that equipment isn't allowed, but I'm sure if I put a bid in on the premise of developing a budget system to video off of docks they'd be up for it as it'd mean on Society field trips it'd be an added element to look at. I'd imagine there'd be less than £500 in material, which is peanuts for most grants...
-
Just saw this on HotUkDeals, thought it could be a good option for you.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B005WY3TI4?&tag=hotukdeals-21
Spec Page:
http://gopro.com/cameras/hd-hero2-outdoor-edition/
170º Wide FOV (Including 1080p)
1 Waterproof Housing (197′ / 60m)
* Now supports time-lapse photo every 0.5 seconds. Requires Class 10 speed SD Card.
-
Perhaps we are looking in the wrong sort of direction? This seems to offer some possibility that a USB camera can be operated over cat 5 cable.
http://www.lindy.co.uk/usb-2-over-ip-server/42890.html
Might not be the ideal option but it is a starting point and cheap!
ASD-102 is new palm-sized USB server enables an external hard drive, flash drive, memory card reader, USB webcam, USB speaker, or USB Multi-Function Printer (MFP) to be shared over on a network.
http://www.cooldrives.com/usb20ovipdes.html
-
http://www.camsecure.co.uk/CamsecureUSBtoIP.html
But they need power, look for devices possible to power over the Cat5.
-
It's interesting stuff alright, though I suspect it'll end up like when I wanted to make a budget trail camera using a webcam and DVR. Once you have bought the camera, power source, recording media/hard drive, waterproofer (housing/bag etc) and required cabling, it ends up costing more than the already expensive commercial solutions!
I know that a set up that Portsmouth uses for deep water video is rented out at £100 per camera per day. So I know there is scope to do it cheaper, even if the unit costs £500...
-
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=power+supply+through+cat5&hl=en&client=ubuntu&hs=CkE&channel=fs&prmd=imvns&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1006&bih=561&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=9175505749968555550&sa=X&ei=v-yfT7mXN-eJ4gSOtsT3Ag&ved=0CHcQ8wIwAg
a bit more expensive but power and USB in the same setup
http://www.officedepot.com/a/products/336379/StarTechcom-2-Port-USB-20-Extender/?cm_mmc=Mercent-_-Google-_-Networking_and_Cables-_-336379-{copy:IQ_PE}&mr:trackingCode=E2738B34-9325-E111-BAE2-0019B9C043EB&mr:referralID=NA
-
Here's a bit of a jumbled update.
The S100 is pretty sweet. IQ isn't bad at all. I'm impressed with the fully auto mode and it's focus tracking abilities. The manual options are a bit clunky, shooting RAW is fairly slow.
Full HD footage hits the 4gb limit within about 15-18minutes. 720p lasts 22min or so. A bit annoying, but I think ultimately this was the better choice than a dedicated video camera as it'll get more use, the CHDK is in alpha at the moment, so in another month or so I should be able to add interval shooting and motion detection to the camera, which should be sweet. Also, work is looking into getting the Contour camera for a similar project that they've started to consult me on :D
Still waiting on the housing, which hopefully will arrive today. It's been a challenge getting one as my local shop sold out, and 3 different online shops that listed them as in stock actually had them on back order. Ended up getting a housing from Amazon.
As to the frame, I've got a sheet of Aluminium from the Tech school at Uni. I've drilled out 5.5mm diameter holes, and had to order some 1/4" 20 tpi bolts off of the internet as our metric 1/4" bolts are actually 25 threads per inch so don't fit camera threads.
I'm hoping to get some rope later this week, and test the housing in a water butt. Then this weekend will be deployment #2. I'll also try the camera with CrabCam MkI for some baited footage too.
-
This please:
http://www.rollette.com/rovrev2/index.html (http://www.rollette.com/rovrev2/index.html)
-
That's so cool.
I've also been looking at drones/helicopters for aerial stuff. Maybe this is just the start point for an ROV :D
-
Finally got down to Mudeford to test out the new camera and frame, but because of the sh*tty weather we've been having lately, and the low tide, it meant the water was the colour and consistency of tea that has been brewing for months.
I'd say it's getting there though. The next improvement is that I need to put some kind of spindle on the winch I made, to make the line reel in tightly. As it is the line goes all over the place on the handle causing one side of the frame to raise/lower faster than the other, making it quite jerky.
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5316/7183337398_61edeeb4b3_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/7183337398/)
cc2 c (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/7183337398/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr
I've also established that it's going to be very tricky to do some video->photo panorama editing. I'm better off looking into getting the CHDK and getting interval shooting to work so I can stitch a Pano that way.
-
The video clarity looks stunning above the water, really really good. Hopefully you'll get some steady waters soon to test the underwater performance.
-
I've managed to get the alpha CHDK running on the S100 and figured out how to use the intervalometer. I'm thinking around about 1 photo every 5 seconds, lowered slowly down should do. Possibly 3 seconds, to ensure that if one is no good there should be some overlap. Will also have to try with and without flash.
Yesterday I walked down to a local marina and got permission to go there later today and try it out. The water was still and looked maybe as clear as it did the first time I went to Mudeford. I'm hoping to try and get a lot of clear photos to do the species analysis, as well as use some bait to see what's lurking at the bottom of the marina. Stay tuned :D
One other problem is the camera gets quite hot when recording continuously, which is almost guaranteed to fog the housing up. It did this at mudeford after about an hour, though it was also in the sun slightly too long before the last film we did.
-
How much room have you got in the case, have you thought of getting some silica gel to combat the moisture?
-
I've got an old pack of silica gel in there, but I think it's spent/fully used up. There's a bit of space for a few packs. I think the best thing to do is close the case up in a cold air conditioned room, and then keep it out of sunlight as best you can.
The yacht club marina I was at today was much better than Mudeford, though it's raised several fundamental issues with my plan to develop this as a means of rapid species assessment.
Current issues:
#1
The winch/rope winding needs sorting so that both sides lower at the same rate. I guess the best way to do this is to put some spindle things on to force the line to wind in a small area.
#2
A wider angle of view is needed. This is a problem though as any further away and visibility is severely restricted. I'll need to look in to ways to improve visibility. This will probably require the right conditions and doing it at night. This is kind of a major issue as all marina's are going to have the same kind of conditions due to their sheltered nature.
#3
Better control of the camera would be good. Potentially CrabCam MkIII. Some kind of telescopic pole with an adjustable ball head design on the end would be good. Would make raising and lowering in shallow water quite easy, and also I could try and make it so I can get to the areas not directly to the side of the walkways.
#4
Image quality
I used the CHDK interval mode to get some shots, but these were 90% very iffy. Could be just a case of trial and error to get the right settings, but one issue is writing buffer. I'm going to look into using VirtualDub to extract single "good" frames from video and then see if hugin can stitch the images together. Some of the images though are pretty good, especially as they were on a timer, they look like I'd framed them deliberately.
All in all I'm kind of feeling that a big wall is coming up fast if I can't get more of an area covered and stitched together.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7076/7191021138_b63ef3e3a8_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/7191021138/)
CrabCam MkII Parkstone Bay (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/7191021138/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7224/7191023560_521e25da0e_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/7191023560/)
CrabCam MkII Parkstone Bay (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/7191023560/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5337/7191026552_5a0d272e37_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/7191026552/)
CrabCam MkII Parkstone Bay (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/7191026552/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8017/7191029734_38a06a9e0d_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/7191029734/)
CrabCam MkII Parkstone Bay (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/7191029734/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5151/7191030880_70e1126715_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/7191030880/)
CrabCam MkII Parkstone Bay (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/7191030880/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr
-
For the winch why dont you just tie the four corners together, bring them together in a single line and attach it to some heavy duty fishing line.
Use a fishing spool on a modified rod to lower and raise the contraption.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk 2
-
Lol. UK waters really are sh*te! ;D
Good work though. :)
-
For the winch why dont you just tie the four corners together, bring them together in a single line and attach it to some heavy duty fishing line.
Use a fishing spool on a modified rod to lower and raise the contraption.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk 2
MkI was like that. Reason for the 2 lines is to prevent it from spinning around due to water currents, and allow me to move it around in the water.
-
Ah, figured it had to be some reason you did it with two.
Okay so er... Are there dual fishing reels out there? It'd be perfect for your needs.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk 2
-
I'd assume the issue here is the line being used?
Just using a fishing line with the same setup may solve your problem and stop the snagging?
Maybe use a couple of reel holders to keep them in line, and if the issue is just getting a constant lower rate, then attach it to a variable speed electric drill?
Nice quality vids and pics from the setup though, shame it's not quite wide enough for you?
Have you looked to see of there is a 3rd party wide angle adapter that will bolt on to the lens, assuming there is room in the case?
-
I had the option to go for a 3rd party housing which was more expensive, but I couldn't figure out the benefits. Now I know, it has a screw thread on the lens port so that you can actually put special/wide angle lenses on. There's no space inside the housing to add a lens to the camera, and I don't think there are any addon options for the Canon housing I have.
There isn't really an issue with snagging with the lines I have. The jerkyness is down to me deliberately unspooling one line to "catch" up with the other line. Potentially I think that the blue line is more stretchy than the white, which is causing the blue side to lower quicker at depth. I'd thought about using diving line reels, but the issue then becomes winding 2 at the same time.
...actually, thinking about it, I guess I could use 1 reel, with some kind of system which separates and holds the 2 lines apart.
I'm currently getting frustrated over the videos and trying to stitch together frames to make a panoramic profile view of a pylon. VirtualDub is excellent for extracting the frames. I'm taking every 5th frame, and then deleting duplicates or blurry frames. it's giving me pretty good shots. The problem is with Hugin, which I'd hoped to use. It just keeps freeing and/or crashing when trying to align images. Photoshop seems to actually be able to do the job, mostly...
-
Here's what I've got photoshop to do in 20 mins, compared to a few hours in Hugin. I think it'll be interesting to see the finished result, where I've stopped is quite a clear zonation between green and red algae, later on it turns into sea squirts. Pretty cool.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7215/7199224400_a637fd3b6f_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/7199224400/)
Pylon Profile in progress (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/7199224400/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr
I really need to get Hugin working however, as if I am going to publish this as a methodology I'd rather do it using opensource freely available software rather than overpriced photographic software.
-
It's looking good mate, have you tried manual alignment mode in hugin? You'll have to match a few spots on each pic, takes a while, but you can get some really good results.
-
When I've used hugin in the past it required a healthy overlap of about a third.
it also took ages to render it.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk 2
-
I've tried manual control as hugin is less able to spot overlapping parts, but it seems this is what is making hugin crash (if I pick a group of images that it can detect control points for, it makes a panorama, it's just really rubbish). Overlap isn't a problem as I've kept a lot of frames in, the picture above is something like 60 photos!
I will need to sit down at the weekend and have a good look in to hugin to try and figure out what the problem is. Could be a 64bit issue...
-
Have you tried rotating your images before putting them in huginn?
Sounds noddy but make a panorama out of rotated images, rotate the panorama = a profile of your pylon.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk 2
-
Hmm, good point. Will give it a go tonight. I did notice that the one successful pano was all skewed up and took a lot of manipulation to get it to look even remotely like the above image.
-
Haven't read through the whole thread but it was mentioned about the GoPro Hero2 on the 1st Page. These are great and I've had plenty of guests using them on scuba trips HOWEVER you need to release the standard wide curved housing with a flat lens'd version.
GoPro said they were doing an official one back at the beginning of the year but didn't get round to it but the Eye of Mine housing have great reviews: http://www.eyeofmineactioncameras.com/category_s/1834.htm
-
Yeah, I think we're looking at the GoPros with a 3rd party flat housing for a proper project at uni now :D
-
I bloody love the Hero2, if I did a lot of filming I'd want one.
This might be worth a read there's a few pointers in there zpyder
http://www.panoguide.com/forums/qna/6870/ (http://www.panoguide.com/forums/qna/6870/)
-
I've just picked up a box with 3x GoPro HD Hero 2's, 3x Dive housings, 3x battery BacPacs, spare batteries, memory cards, and tripod attachments. I've been asked to test them out before their deployment on the surf reef :D
My main concern is if the housing floods while testing :-\
-
I've taken my Hero2 down to 100ft+ over 10times and used it on the boat/beach getting kicked around and still going strong. Thats the non-dive housing (as that's only just come out and I need to get one myself) but the standard waterproof and dive housing are rated to the same pressure.
I very much doubt you will have leakage at the depths your talking about as long as you maintain the o-ring and make sure no crap is in the seal when you close it up.
-
My concern is that we have the battery BacPacs. My understanding is that I'll need to replace the dive housings back cover with the BacPacs cover = more potential for flooding.
It's really just a paranoia that I'll break some stuff that's not mine, before it gets to be used for its intended purpose :D
-
Just a quick couple of pics:
The backs are one simple o-ring with the bracket (that just pops out) on the outside of the case. As you can see from bag full of random fronts/backs I swap mine around quite a lot (need different ones if running without a pak / battery / lcd) and the chance of flooding is no different than just opening it to get access to your camera :P
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/14672624/Pictures/hero1.jpg)
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/14672624/Pictures/hero2.jpg)
As you said its mainly paranoia... theres a great video on the GoPro site of a shark chewing on a Hero2 and it coming back fine (well the housing was ruined but no leaky!)
-
Hmm, that's reassuring. I find it odd how little information there is on the net. Would have thought descriptions would say "comes with interchangeable back covers for waterproof housings" etc. It may be obvious once you own one, but when doing the research for the initial purchase it's a bit confusing!
-
Yer you will see soon as you actually hold one they are damn simple devices (thats one of their perks). I really do need to get my hands on one of the dive housing, the standard waterproof ones it comes with causes some horrible blurring underwater due to the curved lens :(
-
hehe while browsing stuff on youtube about the dive housing I found this : 2.5months at sea and still fine! (http://youtu.be/4b6n1MwXCcs)
-
Pretty impressed with the GoPro. Watch it in HD tbh. Surprised how much was down there!
-
Yeah there's loads down there, surprised with quite how many fish, the crabs and shrimp am not too suprised at they get everywhere.
You nearly caught yourself a crab though!
-
I was surprised at how few crabs were around compared to previous trips. Either it was due to being near the end of the day and the crabs had already been well fed, or maybe with the wet weather we've had this summer there's been a lot of run off into the harbour resulting in more food for the crabs anyway so they weren't as interested.
I'll have to go down early one day and try it with the same bait from that first trip I think, just to see...
-
Well no shortage of crabs in Poole harbour. We sent a student out on a boat to test out the "industrial" crabcam frame we've had engineered for a test run. This is the first of about 6 or so videos that I'm in the process of sorting through. We only have 1 frame at current, but attached 3 cameras to it to give multiple angles. The video processing at the moment is pretty cool, a seagrass bed with Pollack swimming above, a territorial blenny, a wondering crab and lots of small fish (no idea what they are). My video editing skills are coming along (IE, not as bad as they were at the start, but still pretty terrible). The latest videos have slightly better cutting between cameras!