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Chat => Photography => Topic started by: zpyder on July 07, 2013, 23:18:19 PM

Title: Critique thread?
Post by: zpyder on July 07, 2013, 23:18:19 PM
How about a thread (this one?) where we can post images and get some constructive critcism going. I know we do that on some photos in other threads, but generally comments are along the lines of "nice shot" etc. If at least something is "put out there" to get torn to shreds, there's no chance of hurt feelings. I'm happy to start the ball rolling with the below shot:

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7417/9232431985_91f6e1ca6f_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9232431985/)
Oakers Doline (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9232431985/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr

I think I missed an opportunity here. Yesterday I revisited a site I surveyed in 2010. I've gone back each year since. Didn't get to the site till 6-6.30pm so the light wasn't quite "golden hour" but it was close. I used a neutral density filter, but the thing I regret with this shot, is the horizon. *THE* feature is that pond in the lower left, surrounded by sphagnum. I was that focused on getting nicely exposed sky, that I've ended up with a shot that is 1/3 empty blue nothing. I think I'd have been better off recomposing so that the tops of the trees were about halfway up the available sky perhaps? Having said that, there wasn't much of interest in the foreground.

I think the ideal would have been to swap to my 10-20mm lens, and get closer, with the skyline as mentioned above, but this way I'd have more of the interesting pond/sphagnum in the shot, rather than in the distance?
Title: Re: Critique thread?
Post by: Russell on July 07, 2013, 23:38:19 PM
Good idea, where its great to hear when people like a shot its sometimes better to hear why people dont like a shot something that doesnt happen on flickr really.  Last time I postes criticism of a shot I think they deleted me as a contact, probably just a coincidence though but thanks mrt!

I'm on my phone so its a bit awkward to see the photo and type so I'll comment on it tommorrow.

Title: Re: Critique thread?
Post by: Mongoose on July 08, 2013, 12:05:28 PM
an excellent idea, and congrats on being the brave one to kick it off! Looking at other people's shots critically is actually a great way to learn about what makes a good photo. It sounds silly but you actually end up learning about what YOU like in a shot, and that helps your own photography. Everyone wins.

I can see why you wanted to photograph this scene, I've got plenty of shots of similarly beautiful places in real life which turned into photos which I was disapointed with.

For me, this shot lacks an obvious subject, my eye roves around looking at everything and nothing and doesn't really settle on anything.

I think you are right, swapping to the wide angle and getting in closer to the pond might well have resulted in a more interesting composition.
Title: Re: Critique thread?
Post by: M3ta7h3ad on July 08, 2013, 12:11:40 PM
Forgive my uneducated eyes, but that's just a boggy field. :/ what pond? :)
Title: Re: Critique thread?
Post by: Mongoose on July 08, 2013, 12:59:43 PM
Forgive my uneducated eyes, but that's just a boggy field. :/ what pond? :)

this illustrates my problem with the current composition perfectly :)

(left of centre, behind the reeds)
Title: Re: Critique thread?
Post by: bear on July 08, 2013, 13:34:06 PM
Good idea, well I could also go with more sky to get the puddle closer (a speck of cloud would be good) or getting more of both, crop to get it more pleasing and have the possibility to test out a good crop position.
Title: Re: Critique thread?
Post by: Russell on July 08, 2013, 20:39:58 PM
Having seen it on a big screen you've managed to get the exposure nicely balanced with the ND Grads but it lacks any real foreground interest and you've got the horizon right in the middle of the shot, because there isn't any clouds in the sky to make it interesting there's no point including it. 

I'd have said you'd have been better sticking the 10-20 on and getting right up close to a patch of long grass on the left of the pond (not the patch in the middle looks to be some on the left hand edge of the pond) then shooting portrait you'd get the grass as the foreground interest, the pond itself would be the middle ground leading you on to the trees in the background and just a small bit of sky so as not to chop the top of the trees off.  The only thing after that is taking it an two or three hours later when the sun is setting, might give it a nice orangey colour.

Course there's no chance I'd actually do that myself if I was there!
Title: Re: Critique thread?
Post by: zpyder on July 09, 2013, 07:50:07 AM
Thanks guys. You're all pretty much seeing the things I see that are wrong.

Sadly the option of getting wider and closer would have been tricky, even where I was standing, if you jumped, the ground wobbled/bounced (We were standing on a mat of sphagnum). As you get closer to the doline, the sphagnum depth and density gets less and less, increasing the chance of falling through and into the water which is several metres deep. A few years ago, when I was there on my own surveying the site, I was stupid enough to get right up to the edge of the doline and look in, but not any more!

Also, moving to the left would have been difficult, as the site is marred by a large overhead power line with pylons, which I think would then have been visible.

Hopefully in a few weeks time when I am redundant at work, I will be able to devote more time to photography, and actually get up in the wee hours to get some good sunrises! Will be able to practice positioning my horizons then!
Title: Re: Critique thread?
Post by: Clock'd 0Ne on July 09, 2013, 09:55:59 AM
Maybe you need a small stepladder?
Title: Re: Critique thread?
Post by: Mongoose on July 09, 2013, 10:18:25 AM
increasing the chance of falling through and into the water which is several metres deep.

:o no shot is worth that! it's fine as it is! :o
Title: Re: Critique thread?
Post by: zpyder on July 09, 2013, 12:51:51 PM
Maybe you need a small stepladder?

Or a UAV :D
Title: Re: Critique thread?
Post by: Russell on July 09, 2013, 13:45:44 PM
increasing the chance of falling through and into the water which is several metres deep.

:o no shot is worth that! it's fine as it is! :o

Yeah I'd go with that, can't imagine trying to get out of something like that as being very easy, if possible at all.
Title: Re: Critique thread?
Post by: M3ta7h3ad on July 10, 2013, 06:15:36 AM
Maybe you need a small stepladder?

Or a UAV :D

New toys. Quadcopter camera mount. :)

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

Title: Re: Critique thread?
Post by: jammin on July 10, 2013, 12:00:08 PM
I'll play:

(http://www.pulseadvancedmedia.co.uk/temp/beach.jpg)
Title: Re: Critique thread?
Post by: zpyder on July 11, 2013, 09:07:55 AM
With the nice wispy clouds, I wonder if the composition would have been better if you panned up a bit, so the base of the image would be just below the waterline/rocks/algae? To me the sand is less interesting / visually pleasing than the sky, otherwise I like the exposure.

I'm also wondering what it would have been like if you zoomed in a bit so that the composition consisted of the hills in the middle left, with their reflection in the water, and that small rock outcropping in the middle of the picture - I guess if you imagine roughly cropping it so you just had the top left "quarter" of the image or so. I think this might work, as I guess you intended on the rocks in the middle of the image to be the focal point, but I only just noticed them when thinking about cropping it down/zooming, they're maybe a bit "drowned out" by their surroundings?

Where is this place? it's cool.
Title: Re: Critique thread?
Post by: jammin on July 11, 2013, 10:08:27 AM
With the nice wispy clouds, I wonder if the composition would have been better if you panned up a bit, so the base of the image would be just below the waterline/rocks/algae? To me the sand is less interesting / visually pleasing than the sky, otherwise I like the exposure.

Good point, although the intention was for the sharp rock to be at the very centre of the image and for your eye to be drawn to it. It could have worked in the bottom third though  :thumbup:

I'm also wondering what it would have been like if you zoomed in a bit so that the composition consisted of the hills in the middle left, with their reflection in the water, and that small rock outcropping in the middle of the picture - I guess if you imagine roughly cropping it so you just had the top left "quarter" of the image or so. I think this might work, as I guess you intended on the rocks in the middle of the image to be the focal point, but I only just noticed them when thinking about cropping it down/zooming, they're maybe a bit "drowned out" by their surroundings?

Unfortunately, it wasn't possible to zoom with a 24mm prime. However, I did take a portrait shot too:

(http://www.pulseadvancedmedia.co.uk/temp/beach3.jpg)

Where is this place? it's cool.

Broad Haven, south Pembrokeshire.
Title: Re: Critique thread?
Post by: zpyder on July 11, 2013, 13:02:08 PM
I'd say the portrait works much better, maybe either because you've lost some of the less interesting foreground sand, or by clipping the sides you get drawn to the central feature much quicker?

I'll be going along the Pembrokeshire footpath for a bit in a few weeks, awesome :D
Title: Re: Critique thread?
Post by: Eggtastico on July 11, 2013, 14:28:23 PM
same problem in both photos.
NO TITS
Title: Re: Critique thread?
Post by: jammin on July 11, 2013, 17:09:26 PM
same problem in both photos.
NO TITS

Excellent point   :D
Title: Re: Critique thread?
Post by: Russell on July 11, 2013, 20:17:36 PM
Apart from Eggs point which tbh is where so many photos are lacking I think Zypder got it right, the sand in the bottom right of the image doesn't actually add anything and means the foreground isn't that strong.  If you actually cover the bottom 1/3rd with your hand the image actually looks a bit stronger imo.  What you need to do is decide what your trying to shoot, the sky and the hills or the water and the hills, especially at 24mm, with a wide angle you'd get most of it in but you've tried to compromise and ended up with the horizon in the middle of the frame.

I tend to use my wide angle for everything these days so don't know how I'd really approach this for myself at 24mm, maybe go portrait and see about using the edge of the beach where it curves at the right of the image as a lead in line.

The portrait version is better but I still think it looks a bit better covering without those rocks.
Title: Re: Critique thread?
Post by: zpyder on July 28, 2013, 16:10:58 PM
Slight twist on the theme. Venus flytraps growing in the wild in the New Forest! After first hearing of the plants existence 4 years ago, I finally found out the coordinates of them earlier in the week. Popped out yesterday morning to have a look. Rather than a specific photo, how about using the ones below to paint a better picture of the layout and the subject, and then you can say what you would have done, if you had to produce a single image?

So, there are about 3 crowns of plants on a single mossy tummock in a boggy area:
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2849/9384626842_4beabd05d8.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9384626842/)
Venus flytrap (Dionaea muscipula) mound (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9384626842/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr

Two of the plants are quite close, whilst the 3rd plant is on the other side of the tussock:
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2813/9384819082_888e71b63c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9384819082/)
Venus flytraps (Dionaea muscipula) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9384819082/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr

They're quite healthy though, which I was surprised at:
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2875/9382007549_f515b09fb4.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9382007549/)
Venus flytrap (Dionaea muscipula) crown 2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9382007549/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr

If I were to take ONE photo, this is the one I would take:
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5530/9384807346_07d7905a55.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9384807346/)
Venus flytrap (Dionaea muscipula) landscape 2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9384807346/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr

However, I did do a slight different angle, not sure about it. I think for the image below to work, I should have used a ND Grad filter or something. The plants lose some of their dominance in the frame I think too.
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3674/9384522064_4432debf86.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9384522064/)
Venus flytrap (Dionaea muscipula) landscape 1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9384522064/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr

For those last two pictures, I chose that angle and those plants as I felt two plants was better than one, also, the grass was less in the way on that side, so it all felt "right". I chose to put a bit of the surroundings in the shot to put the fact these plants are growing in the new forest into context, rather than just focusing on the plants themselves.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Critique thread?
Post by: Russell on July 30, 2013, 22:27:54 PM
I quite like the 3rd one down actually except for the stem coming up into the camera thats out of focus the entire plant is in focus.  One thing with all of them is that you could have removed some of the grass stems from the shots, they're a bit distracting but I imagine you didn't want to disturb them too much.

I'm not sure how I'd go about doing the same sort of shot, maybe try putting my 10-20 on and go portrait to see if I could get the plants in the shot at bottom and the hills/trees in the background, hard to say if that'd actually work without trying it though.  If that didn't work out I'd probably go macro and try and get one of them sets of jaws, its an unusal suject in these sorts of surroudings, I was going to see about buying myself one this year to try and get a macro shot something like this but I never got round to it

(https://farm7.staticflickr.com/6021/6002402959_26d0309f09_q.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/russellcram/6002402959/)
Sensitive Plant Flower (http://www.flickr.com/photos/russellcram/6002402959/) by russellcram (http://www.flickr.com/people/russellcram/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Critique thread?
Post by: Mongoose on August 22, 2013, 13:20:51 PM
Russell that flower shot is amazing, I feel like I could reach into my screen and pick it! I always get the focus point slightly off in this type of shot, probably because I'm too lazy/impatient to set up properly with a tripod and so on, but you've nailed it.
Title: Re: Critique thread?
Post by: Russell on August 22, 2013, 21:25:58 PM
Russell that flower shot is amazing, I feel like I could reach into my screen and pick it! I always get the focus point slightly off in this type of shot, probably because I'm too lazy/impatient to set up properly with a tripod and so on, but you've nailed it.

Thanks Mongoose, in some ways its still my best macro shot yet.  Focus is always a problem with macro especially as I normally find I'm below 100th/s on my 105mm so it ends up with a little motion blur which is why I used a flash on that shot, helped me with get a shutter speed of 200th and more DoF too, both of which will help with getting the focus right so if I were you'd I'd give it a try, it doesn't work everytime but it certainly helps.  If putting a flash on a tripod takes too long look at a flash/LED macro ring, that should help nicely and isn't difficult to setup, think Zypder has or at least was talking about getting one a while ago.
Title: Re: Critique thread?
Post by: zpyder on August 22, 2013, 21:38:52 PM
Yeah, I managed to get a good deal on the MP-E 65mm macro lens and a ring flash. cost about 50% what they retail at :D

I've seen some interesting non-ringflash set up with specialist bounce/diffuser cards mounted to the flash. In theory having the flash offset, instead of lens mounted, will give better lighting, though the ring flash allows you to modify the output on the left or right side.

The thing I need to get to grips with is using the flash to increase shutter speed without darkening the background, if such a thing were possible.
Title: Re: Critique thread?
Post by: Russell on August 22, 2013, 21:46:17 PM
Yeah, I managed to get a good deal on the MP-E 65mm macro lens and a ring flash. cost about 50% what they retail at :D

I've seen some interesting non-ringflash set up with specialist bounce/diffuser cards mounted to the flash. In theory having the flash offset, instead of lens mounted, will give better lighting, though the ring flash allows you to modify the output on the left or right side.

The thing I need to get to grips with is using the flash to increase shutter speed without darkening the background, if such a thing were possible.

Hmm only way I can think of doing that is lowering the shutter speed but then that might cause problems with motion blur depending on how far down you go with your 65mm guess you don't want to go too far below 1/80th hmm not sure without having one to hand to try!

You do seem some wonderful (and weird!) creations with cardboard for bouncing flash around, can't say too much though I've got a pringles can snoot!
Title: Re: Critique thread?
Post by: zpyder on August 22, 2013, 23:17:23 PM
I guess you could always use some powerful constant light sources to backlight or just increase the general light available for the composition. Good for still life, not so easy for bugs :D
Title: Re: Critique thread?
Post by: Mongoose on August 23, 2013, 08:45:37 AM
what's the high ISO performance like on your 7D? crank the ISO a couple of stops and you'll need less light for the background, although of course you'll start to get noisy beyond a certain point.

Thanks for the tips Russell, I really must give this a go, I've got a decent flash (though not a ring flash) with a diffuser and a Tamron 90mm macro lens, so I should be able to achieve something.
Title: Re: Critique thread?
Post by: zpyder on August 23, 2013, 19:45:30 PM
I find the noise on the 7D to be pretty bad to be honest. ISO 100-200 is ok. Anything higher and the noise is noticeable. I'm curious if/when the 7D MKii is announced how the noise will be on that.
Title: Re: Critique thread?
Post by: zpyder on August 23, 2013, 19:59:44 PM
Ring flash:

(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5339/9578649702_74e229fa71.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9578649702/)
Common purple and gold Moth (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9578649702/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr

The wings were deceptive, they looked pretty flat when I took the shot, but obviously f11 wasn't enough to get them all in focus with the angle they apparently were at. This was in the shade at 7pm or so I think, so I'd have never got the background exposed anyway.

Ring flash again I think, almost got the background exposed enough:
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3782/9575879047_708e1997b1.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9575879047/)
Rhododendron leafhoppers mating (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9575879047/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Critique thread?
Post by: Russell on August 29, 2013, 13:54:03 PM
Ring flash:

(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5339/9578649702_74e229fa71.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9578649702/)
Common purple and gold Moth (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9578649702/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr

The wings were deceptive, they looked pretty flat when I took the shot, but obviously f11 wasn't enough to get them all in focus with the angle they apparently were at. This was in the shade at 7pm or so I think, so I'd have never got the background exposed anyway.

Ring flash again I think, almost got the background exposed enough:
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3782/9575879047_708e1997b1.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9575879047/)
Rhododendron leafhoppers mating (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9575879047/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr

You don't notice the out of focus part of the wing too much really as your drawn to the head, I quite like it with a black background too, but I think it might look better with the out of of focus bit of twig/branch/leaf/tree/bazooka thats hanging down on the left of the image wasn't there but I think it'd be fairly easy to PS out.

The leafhoppers are good you've got just the right amount of leaf in focus with them and there's enough in the background so its not just black but you get an idea of the rest of the plant being there.
Title: Re: Critique thread?
Post by: zpyder on August 29, 2013, 18:36:26 PM
Thanks for the suggestion on the moth. Looking at it, if I remove the OOF twig on the left it'll look much better. Will sort that out later and post the results!
Title: Re: Critique thread?
Post by: zpyder on August 29, 2013, 22:28:14 PM
Ring flash:

(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5339/9578649702_74e229fa71.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9578649702/)
Common purple and gold Moth (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9578649702/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr

The wings were deceptive, they looked pretty flat when I took the shot, but obviously f11 wasn't enough to get them all in focus with the angle they apparently were at. This was in the shade at 7pm or so I think, so I'd have never got the background exposed anyway.

You don't notice the out of focus part of the wing too much really as your drawn to the head, I quite like it with a black background too, but I think it might look better with the out of of focus bit of twig/branch/leaf/tree/bazooka thats hanging down on the left of the image wasn't there but I think it'd be fairly easy to PS out.


Much better I think!
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5532/9622595495_b747d0198f.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9622595495/)
Moth MkII (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9622595495/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Critique thread?
Post by: Russell on September 02, 2013, 22:08:33 PM
Aye now that's a lot better.