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Chat => Photography => Topic started by: zpyder on June 21, 2013, 22:05:54 PM

Title: MP-E 65mm
Post by: zpyder on June 21, 2013, 22:05:54 PM
Quite frankly, this lenses magnification is obscene.

The lack of any kind of focus is going to take some getting used to. The lens just has a twist barrel to zoom from 1:1 to 5:1. Along the zoom range the only way to focus is to move the whole camera. Also, at 5:1, it's ridiculous trying to find the subject in the viewfinder, it's not just very dark, but the area the viewfinder covers is about the size of a grain of rice, and has a DOF of around 0.2mm, at most!

But anyway, here are my first attempts. They are the result of a combination of experiments with both the lens and the MR-14EX ring flash I also bought at the same time! All hand held I should add!

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7301/9099780231_c75da8f3e4_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9099780231/)
Stowa flieger balance wheel pallet (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9099780231/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr

(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5480/9100341973_e11474864c_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9100341973/)
Stowa flieger Winding pinion and transmission wheel (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9100341973/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr

(http://l6.yimg.com/so/7402/9102855892_58e6e63b64_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9102855892/)
Ant carrying twig (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9102855892/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr

(http://l2.yimg.com/sk/3796/9102699468_4fe9526e91_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9102699468/)
Woodlouse (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9102699468/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr

(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2888/9100412735_a7215e9de2_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9100412735/)
Money spider underside (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9100412735/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr

(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2816/9103523030_a963b21aac_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9103523030/)
IMG_5009 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9103523030/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr

The thread is the fine cotton weave on my trousers. Caterpillar was about the width of a hair.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7440/9103552522_9aa52190b9_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9103552522/)
IMG_5004 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9103552522/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr

red mite
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5481/9101364923_e07c7314db_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9101364923/)
IMG_4993 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9101364923/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr

Aphid
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5498/9103623204_dd8ba9d84c_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9103623204/)
IMG_4992 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9103623204/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr

money spider
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2863/9103687372_08fe16d1d4_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9103687372/)
IMG_4973 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9103687372/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr

2mm long beetle
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2828/9101473371_fe5e5b93c4_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9101473371/)
IMG_4967 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9101473371/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr

Title: Re: MP-E 65mm
Post by: bytejunkie on June 21, 2013, 22:10:36 PM
wow. great stuff.
Title: Re: MP-E 65mm
Post by: Russell on June 21, 2013, 22:50:15 PM
Now that's a macro lens!  The magnification is incredible and it looks stupidly sharp too, in comparison to my sigma 105mm it really does show how much more magnification it gets but then the sigma only goes to 1:1 without the aid of some extension tubes.

But have you tried it with some extension tubes... lol

You've made me want to try doing some macro stuff over the weekend, I won't suggest a competition to see who can get a better shot I think you might have a slight advantage!
Title: Re: MP-E 65mm
Post by: zpyder on June 22, 2013, 00:13:30 AM
One thing I'm pleased with is that a lot of sites say that the lens really shows up dust and crud on your sensor, and I've yet to spot anything really, after 4 years!

Only thing I've noticed though is I've got quite a few stuck pixels :(

Will be trying a macro rail tomorrow on some of the more obliging critters in the garden I think!
Title: Re: MP-E 65mm
Post by: Clock'd 0Ne on June 22, 2013, 13:24:25 PM
That ant shot is fantastic, and the woodlouse coming head on. That's a terrific piece of kit!
Title: Re: MP-E 65mm
Post by: XEntity on June 22, 2013, 18:55:41 PM
Some really awesome stuff there!!
Title: Re: MP-E 65mm
Post by: zpyder on June 25, 2013, 08:51:47 AM
After a bit of playing around I'm slowly getting to grips with the lens. Not sure if it's progression of skills, modification of technique, or tweaking the processing, but I think the photos I took last night are much better than previous photos. The MP-E seems to be sharpest at f5.6 at 5x mag, which is good to know. Also I've modified helicon settings to the slowest, highest detail preserving stacking method, and that must have helped too.

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7291/9133677146_52f9cbe703_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9133677146/)
Strophosoma melanogramma (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9133677146/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3697/9131468015_507483e77b_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9131468015/)
Strophosoma melanogramma 5 #upclose (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9131468015/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3671/9131470535_b669695181_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9131470535/)
Otiorhynchus arcticus 1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9131470535/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr
Title: Re: MP-E 65mm
Post by: M3ta7h3ad on June 25, 2013, 21:46:33 PM
Mate this is insane magnification. You need to stand up a website with the other data associated with these critters and promote it amongst education folk.

Some of the detail on these photos are incredible.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

Title: Re: MP-E 65mm
Post by: zpyder on June 26, 2013, 23:02:21 PM
Chuffed with this one.Really does seem that the longer you sit in one spot, the more you see. Kind of increased the contrast a bit, but I think it shows off the speckledness of the nymph really well:
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5444/9147072356_fc40dbbe36_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9147072356/)
Speckled bush-cricket (Leptophyes punctatissima) Nymph (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9147072356/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr

More aphids, I guess they're popular with macro folk due to being so slow moving:
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5510/9145017329_9ef158b322_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9145017329/)
Aphids (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9145017329/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr

Not sure on this one. Think I missed a trick. These guys were on the underside of a honeysuckle leaf. Prime opportunity to actually focus stack them and get a really good shot of them all. Sadly by the time I'd gotten everything set up and half way through the stack, the adults were moving around too much for the stack to work properly. I also rushed it which meant the stack wasn't aligned as well as it could be. This photo is a fudge using photoshop, rather than a stacking software run. As such I can see a lot of minor mistakes that all add up :(
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7384/9147185630_0b985e3da5_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9147185630/)
Bugs (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9147185630/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr

And an obscene fly-eye close up:
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7300/9142960840_7e5d080649_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9142960840/)
Lucilia sericata (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9142960840/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr
Title: Re: MP-E 65mm
Post by: M3ta7h3ad on June 27, 2013, 00:50:25 AM
A honeysuckle leaf? Those tiny leaves? My god man, you appear to have attached an electron microscope to the end of your camera.

Blown away also wtf are those "bugs"?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

Title: Re: MP-E 65mm
Post by: zpyder on June 27, 2013, 07:35:38 AM
Honeysuckle isn't that tiny, leaf was about 1.5 inches long.

The bugs are baby shield bugs, yet to identify the species!

Sent from my GT-N8010 using Tapatalk HD
Title: Re: MP-E 65mm
Post by: bytejunkie on June 27, 2013, 08:28:34 AM
amazing. that cricket has a right cheeky grin on him. awesome work fella.
Title: Re: MP-E 65mm
Post by: XEntity on June 27, 2013, 10:29:31 AM
Next time can you take a shot of the setup?

The cricket shot for example, surely you've got a very small amount of time to take the photo before he hops off? So how on earth did you set everything up in time? I assume it's a single shot?

Really fantastic picture though!!
Title: Re: MP-E 65mm
Post by: zpyder on June 27, 2013, 11:27:10 AM
Thanks guys!

It was a single shot indeed!

Actually that cricket was much obliging and didn't shift much. It wasn't until I paused for a second and decided I could increase the aperture to f8 due to being only at about 2x mag, that it disappeared when I took my eyes off of it.

The reason I've got a few shots on different backgrounds was because it was fairly easy to "encourage" it to move in different directions. The biggest challenge was that you only had about 5-10 seconds each time to take the shot before it would turn around so it wasn't facing the camera!

As to the setup, it was "hand held", ring flash, I was experimenting with using a walking pole as a pseudo-monopod, so I'd have the body in my right hand, with my left hand holding the pole and supporting the lens. I'd then focus by rocking back and forth.

I've been meaning to get some set-up shots, as the stacking "studio" set-up is a bit of a beast, but annoyingly it doesn't look too professional on a dining room table...or a carpeted floor for that matter! I'll be doing some work on campus in a week or two though so will be able to get some proper sciencey backgrounds then.

Next time I'm doing the stuff in the back garden though i'll get the other half to take a few snaps. Or if I do tripod work I'll do it myself.
Title: Re: MP-E 65mm
Post by: XEntity on June 27, 2013, 12:48:47 PM
How on earth are you managing to focus that handheld? Are you taking several shots and picking the best or do you have a really steady hand?
Title: Re: MP-E 65mm
Post by: zpyder on June 27, 2013, 16:10:32 PM
Ring flash! I did take half a dozen shots though, and picked the best one, though thats the nature of working with nature I think.

If I'd have known how much of a difference a ring flash makes, I'd have bought one 2 years ago!

Camera settings = manual mode, 1/100s exposure and aperture of f6.3 (could have been 8 though). The fast(ish) exposure meant combined with the pseudo-monopod, it wasn't too hard to not get a shaky hand, and as I said, the nymph wasn't that mobile.

Still getting to grips with the ringflash settings though. In manual mode, you get options to basically power the flash from full power, 1/2, 1/4,1/8,1/16,1/32 and 1/64 power (or off). Not entirely sure how this works, as in manual mode if I leave the flash power settings unchanged (lets say both rings at 1/16) - and take a shot at 1/100th, if I take another shot at 1/200th the exposure is pretty much the same, making me wonder whether there is still some form of metering going on and as I increase shutter speed, flash power is increased but correspondingly reduced to make the same exposure?

If the above is true, not sure what difference there is between controlling the flash output by manual mode, or leaving it in e-ttl, adjusting flash compensation and the flash ratio between the two rings!?
Title: Re: MP-E 65mm
Post by: zpyder on June 30, 2013, 20:25:50 PM
Starting to try and get a bit creative with some of these specimens. Bit limited on what you can do with a small dead insect glued to a piece of card, but still, doesn't hurt to try!

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7416/9176064094_308fc52145.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9176064094/)
Nebria rufescens (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9176064094/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3696/9173951757_e2cd684565.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9173951757/)
Hylobius abietis 2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9173951757/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr

(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5452/9174167769_e2c385201a.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9174167769/)
Forficula auricularia 3 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9174167769/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr

Fly heads doesn't get old
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2839/9174286759_28bed6689f.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9174286759/)
Fly 3 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9174286759/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr

(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5336/9176699374_4ff6971a29.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9176699374/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9176699374/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr

(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5458/9177392522_7b3a83729f.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9177392522/)
Hypera plantaginis 2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9177392522/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3673/9174725887_fbf23f4a22.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9174725887/)
Sitona regensteinensis 3 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/9174725887/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr
Title: Re: MP-E 65mm
Post by: Russell on July 04, 2013, 13:25:40 PM
Ring flash! I did take half a dozen shots though, and picked the best one, though thats the nature of working with nature I think.

If I'd have known how much of a difference a ring flash makes, I'd have bought one 2 years ago!

Camera settings = manual mode, 1/100s exposure and aperture of f6.3 (could have been 8 though). The fast(ish) exposure meant combined with the pseudo-monopod, it wasn't too hard to not get a shaky hand, and as I said, the nymph wasn't that mobile.

Still getting to grips with the ringflash settings though. In manual mode, you get options to basically power the flash from full power, 1/2, 1/4,1/8,1/16,1/32 and 1/64 power (or off). Not entirely sure how this works, as in manual mode if I leave the flash power settings unchanged (lets say both rings at 1/16) - and take a shot at 1/100th, if I take another shot at 1/200th the exposure is pretty much the same, making me wonder whether there is still some form of metering going on and as I increase shutter speed, flash power is increased but correspondingly reduced to make the same exposure?

If the above is true, not sure what difference there is between controlling the flash output by manual mode, or leaving it in e-ttl, adjusting flash compensation and the flash ratio between the two rings!?


Don't know how much you know about using flashes in general so hopefully I'm not teaching you how to suck eggs here (and that the same logic applies to ring flashes as well as ordinary flash guns) but I watched a video on how to use flashes by Zack Arias about a year ago and he explains it quite well, but basically the shutter speed only controls the amount of ambient light that's in the shot ie use a fast shutter speed to produce a dark background and a slower shutter speed to get some detail in the background etc.  The affect the flash has is controlled by the apperture and the flash power settings which sounds like what your getting, you changed the shutter speed but not the apperture so the affect the flash has is the same.

The shots you've been producing with it are great and make me want a ring flash myself, or at least an LED one anyway.  I tried to do some macro shots of a flower on Monday night when I was out at a nature reserver looking for little owls but as it was just around sunset I couldn't get the light to give me a shutterspeed around 1/100th so most of the shots were blurred doh.
Title: Re: MP-E 65mm
Post by: Mongoose on July 08, 2013, 13:03:41 PM
Russell is right, a flash burst is typically over in ~1/10,000 sec, so shutter speed makes no difference. This is also the reason why focal plane shutters have a max sync speed above which you can't use flash without clever technical jiggery pokery.
Title: Re: MP-E 65mm
Post by: zpyder on July 09, 2013, 07:45:57 AM
That's what I thought/suspected, it was just odd to observe, as it wasn't quite what I was used to :D

Title: Re: MP-E 65mm
Post by: zpyder on January 15, 2014, 15:32:31 PM
Had a bit of a technique breakthrough over the last week, whilst unemployed.

Used some light tent fabric to make a small cube tube, helps diffuse the light on the specimens. A black cloth positioned out of the light behind the subject gives a nice uniform black background. I've got some 1mm gauge black aluminium wire which I'm using to pin the specimens in the cube, stuck into some modelling clay.

First of all I retrieved a bunch of fried insects from inside a light fitting:

Lightbulb (halogen) Heat seems to make the bluebottle go more purple:
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7446/11931661926_73d27da35e.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/11931661926/)
Bluebottle (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/11931661926/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr

Still working on what this is/was:
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3780/11930700335_161d4686a2.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/11930700335/)
Chrysalis 2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/11930700335/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7302/11931518536_cd93579b2c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/11931518536/)
Cranefly (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/11931518536/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr

And then I went through some of the girlfriends sediment samples from her PhD. Added challenge here is they've all been preserved in alcohol so they are either wet, or wet and squishy. Hard to suspend on black wire.

(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5514/11955172324_cce8c07b48.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/11955172324/)
BV 2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/11955172324/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3698/11955499586_aa92a82b8f.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/11955499586/)
Cockle 2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/11955499586/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr

This shell is about 5mm long. I think I could get scale bars in the photos if I use some tipex on some wire to give an indication of size, I can then add a digital scale in photoshop after:
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5518/11954992624_f5e6ccca9e.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/11954992624/)
Hydro 3 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/11954992624/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr

(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5494/11965391936_42740d0b58.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/11965391936/)
Coro 2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/11965391936/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr

(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5483/11964904654_d53bfcb1c7.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/11964904654/)
Prawn 2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/11964904654/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr

(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2859/11964362465_4d4061bbeb.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/11964362465/)
Ragworm 2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/11964362465/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr

This one is actually more like 10cm long. Again I need to get a scale bar in. Amazing what having mega DoF can do for screwing up sense of size and scale.
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5542/11965096896_34e4ba20a8.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/11965096896/)
Worm pipefish 2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/11965096896/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr
Title: Re: MP-E 65mm
Post by: Russell on February 20, 2014, 22:37:57 PM
They look really good with the pure black background, only managed that once with a macro/flash shot I did, but that was shot out of a window so the flash didn't have anything to bounce back of so it just went to nearly pure black.  Is it worth trying a pure white background using the same method?  Should cut down on a few shadows you get under the beasties, probably not the best for everything but might make some a bit more useful to people buying them for text books etc
Title: Re: MP-E 65mm
Post by: zpyder on February 21, 2014, 08:50:15 AM
Some of the shadows are actually my attempts at cloning/masking out the pins holding the specimens ;)

I've done some white background ones as well, it depends on the subject. I don't think a beige/off white object comes out that well on a white background. Darker things, like ants, or beetles work well though:
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7423/12651977693_2013ff2bde.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/12651977693/)
2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/12651977693/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr

 (https://v4s.yimg.com/sk/3682/12652202434_54573d772a.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/12652202434/)
8 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/12652202434/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr

(https://v4s.yimg.com/sk/3747/12636094404_380e8b5bef.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/12636094404/)
2014-02-19-11.29 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zpyder/12636094404/) by Chris_Moody (http://www.flickr.com/people/zpyder/), on Flickr