Tekforums
Chat => Photography => Topic started by: Bacon on June 07, 2010, 17:07:07 PM
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Total novice might be looking for his first camera, will be taking pics at car shows etc, have no clue what to look for in a camera
Help appreciated
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To know what to look for, first you need to know what you want?
Point and shoot ease of use, SLR, or something inbetween?
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Im sure Kunal would say that you need Canon 1D Mark IV - http://www.tekforum.co.uk/posts/list/16940.page ;)
But like Zpyer says, what do you want? My personal preference are Panasonic Lumix TZ for point and shoot and Canon SLR thats what I would suggest to my friends, but not adverse to other brands.
Also a budget would be useful? :)
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Have a look at Rockwells common sense about camera recommendations (http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/recommended-cameras.htm) and see if that helps.
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I was in your position a while ago, I wanted a DSLR to give me a bit more freedom and better low light and response speeds than a compact.
I ended up getting a second hand Nikon D70, which apart from the small LCD will do everything a beginner needs for not a lot of money.
When you see whats possible with the lowest end and cheapest of DSLRs you quickly realise its the user not the camera that makes the shot.
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Agree with sexytw, but does sometimes depend on what you are shooting to an extent, if you are just taking straight photos you are fairly safe, but if you are taking action shots a faster shutter speed and faster memory write is very useful (Used to have a 300D and that was slooow) But also if you are venturing in to SLRs be aware that its not just go out and buy one camera and one lens, be prepared to get you camera with a stock 18-55mm, then buying a zoom on top of that, then maybe a prime or a wide angle, fast memory cards, then you need a bag, then you want a tripod, maybe some filters, off camera flash.. .and by that point you have spent quite a lot of money :)... Then you want to get a new body :)
But there are some good deals out there, and if you are looking at SLRs Nikon or Canon seem to be the choice in most cases, dont go Sony, not because its rubbish, but there seem to be more 3rd party lenses available i.e. Tamron etc, and you can get good lenses at a better price.
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I think i should put a pause on this thread until im back at work cus this is going to get expensive fast :p
I found a list earlier of cameras for sale on Argos clearance, just considered getting something basic to start me off, here (http://photography.shop.ebay.co.uk/Digital-Cameras-/31388/i.html?_trkparms=65%253A12%257C66%253A2%257C39%253A1%257C72%253A2471&_catref=1&_dmpt=UK_CamerasPhoto_DigitalCameras_DigitalCameras_JN&_ipg=&_ssn=argos-clearancebargains&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_sop=15&_sc=1) is the link to the cameras.
As i said i dont even own a basic one, i would love to do action shots but i cant afford that atm is my guess.
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Have a look at Rockwells common sense about camera recommendations (http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/recommended-cameras.htm) and see if that helps.
Thanks
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Whats your current budget and are you looking at an SLR or a compact? As by that link you are looking for a compact?
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Whats your current budget and are you looking at an SLR or a compact? As by that link you are looking for a compact?
Compact and low ish budget around £60 i guess, i know its not a lot, but im really poor these days
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Agree with sexytw, but does sometimes depend on what you are shooting to an extent, if you are just taking straight photos you are fairly safe, but if you are taking action shots a faster shutter speed and faster memory write is very useful (Used to have a 300D and that was slooow) But also if you are venturing in to SLRs be aware that its not just go out and buy one camera and one lens, be prepared to get you camera with a stock 18-55mm, then buying a zoom on top of that, then maybe a prime or a wide angle, fast memory cards, then you need a bag, then you want a tripod, maybe some filters, off camera flash.. .and by that point you have spent quite a lot of money :)... Then you want to get a new body :)
But there are some good deals out there, and if you are looking at SLRs Nikon or Canon seem to be the choice in most cases, dont go Sony, not because its rubbish, but there seem to be more 3rd party lenses available i.e. Tamron etc, and you can get good lenses at a better price.
tripod is a tenner from tescos and the kit lens does most people for long time.
cheap dslr to get your feet in the game. then work out if you prefer the responsiveness of a dslr. you probly will. then from there, do you want to spend more on it? prob not, but if you do, its often better to flog yours on and start with a bigger better specd body and kit lens and then add to it as you go.
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Whats your current budget and are you looking at an SLR or a compact? As by that link you are looking for a compact?
Compact and low ish budget around £60 i guess, i know its not a lot, but im really poor these days
I would say something smallish, so you can carry it easily in your pocket then. Car shows are either very well lit or out in the open so light is unlikely to be an issue.
You might be able to buy something with an X3 optical zoom for around that price. That will produce adequate pics for most situations. It wont be that much use at airshows, racetracks or wildlife photography though.
Probably worth having a look in the local PC world at a NIKON Coolpix L22.
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http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0038W0IOK/ref=nosim/?tag=hotukdeals-21
Something like this maybe?
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Semi decided to go for Canon A480 or maybe slightly better spec/model for now, but i would love a DSLR so maybe ill wait.
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Semi decided to go for Canon A480 or maybe slightly better spec/model for now, but i would love a DSLR so maybe ill wait.
They are quite good the little Canons I used to have one, I then upgraded that to the Fujifilm FinePix S8000fd, which is a very good bridge Camera. Might be worth a look, not sure what the latest models are now, might be worth a look if you dont want to go straight to SLR (The lenses are not changeable, but has good zoom and macro) although more than your budget, much less than an SLR?
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I still have my old Fuji Finepix S7000 camera kicking around. Theyre pretty old now/discontinued, but its in good condition, if youre interested I think I would sell it for £75 +P&P, which includes a soft camera bag, adapter ring, UV filter and polarising filter. Hopefully others can say whether that is a good price or not.
Camera wise, it has an excellent macro, good zoom, couldnt fault it really. Took some good pics with it, but pretty quickly moved on to a proper SLR.
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I still have my old Fuji Finepix S7000 camera kicking around. Theyre pretty old now/discontinued, but its in good condition, if youre interested I think I would sell it for £75 +P&P, which includes a soft camera bag, adapter ring, UV filter and polarising filter. Hopefully others can say whether that is a good price or not.
Camera wise, it has an excellent macro, good zoom, couldnt fault it really. Took some good pics with it, but pretty quickly moved on to a proper SLR.
I was going to look for something with warranty off the bat for peace of mind, but thanks anyway
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Best camera for that price point? (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sony-Alpha-DSLR-A200-10-2-Megapixel-Digital-Camera-lens-/220657469948?pt=UK_CamerasPhoto_DigitalCameras_DigitalCameras_JN)
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0801/08010701sonydslra200.asp
Any cheap lenses available for it? I read it uses the old Minolta mount on it as its based on a Minolta camera owing to them pulling out and handing the assets over to Sony.
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Not sure on prices for second hand bodies, but just be aware it is a lot easier to get 3rd party lenses for Canon / Nikon kit, and mostly for less money.
Any money you save now, youll probably lose in the long run, Ive had a play with a Sony Alpha and just didnt like how it functioned, Im sure it takes good pictures, just wasnt impressed with the interface.
But looks like quite a good price not sure what that compares to from Canon/Nikon?
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With the exception of the anti-shake, maybe comparable to the canon 1000D or 450D?
Its worth watching a half dozen lenses on ebay of similar focal lengths that would be compatible with the A200 and the comparable canon (or nikon) ones to get an idea of price.
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With the exception of the anti-shake, maybe comparable to the canon 1000D or 450D?
Its worth watching a half dozen lenses on ebay of similar focal lengths that would be compatible with the A200 and the comparable canon (or nikon) ones to get an idea of price.
Yeh its just knowing which cameras are comparable, it was hard enough i found that that got a good review then cross referenced that and other cameras on ebay to see which ones sold for a reasonable amount. :P
Im guessing thats one of the best/chepeast SLR Cameras? Whats the cheapest good quality SLR camera?
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What was your budget again? £165 for a DSLR + Lens?
My understanding of it all is that for that money youd likely get better results with a hybrid...that or you have been extremely lucky on fleabay and somehow got a camera that slipped through everyone elses net.
My understanding when I was deliberating on upgrading to the 40D on the "best" canon slrs for different price brackets were possibly:
450D - Entry level, few years old and been replaced by a few other cameras (500, 550D) Im excluding the 1000D as I got the impression thats kind of in its own price bracket BELOW the xxxDs and as such is the kind of camera you may be better off with a hybrid on. Might be able to pick a kit up for a little under £300
40D - mid level, again old and replaced (by the 50D, which will soon be replaced). As mentioned elsewhere here, the 50D upgrade to the sensor may have added more MP (and more ££) but apparently also decreased image quality. As a result the 40D is cheap due to its age but is a good higher end camera. I Paid £400 for the body, which I think was reasonable. I guess if you waited and looked around and were lucky you might find one for £350+lens, but youd have to be very lucky as well as asking yourself why it was so cheap.
7D - upper level, expensive, but versatile without being silly expensive. -£1000+
1D - The nads. Also costs the earth. Wont say anything else as I know nothing else on the camera as unless I win the lottery I doubt Ill ever even get to hold one, let alone use one.
Honourable mention might be the 400D, the "one before" the 450D. The biggest difference between the two being the 400 being the last to not have live view. As a result Id imagine these are going a lot cheaper due to people wanting to get something WITH live view. For instance I sold my 400D+kit lens for £225, I know I could have got £250 for it, possibly £275 with a few other bits, but again if youre lucky You may find one for £200-£250, and then youre on the Canon ladder and your lenses if you get more will work with any future upgrades etc.
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I guess it depends what you want it for? - does seem like a very good price for an entry level DSLR.
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I was going to buy a Canon A480 it was still on my list of "stuff to buy" this year, and would only set me back about £50.
Mainly to start off with just still shots, taking pictures of items for ebay, gumtree, and peoples cars to sell on/offline, but i would like to go further and as i do more car shows etc, take some pictures at those which could include moving shots.
On top of this, ive seen some places in the van in the last couple of weeks, sunsets/landscapes and such and thought to myself i wish i had a camera to capture that image as some of them have been truly breathtaking and now im covering North Devon and the East Coast to Bournemouth ill have plenty of opportunities. Ive also been watching the Photography forum and could see this becoming another hobby. :)
As said above i was going to go for the Canon presuming it would do for what i need except for moving shots, so what im now considering is an SLR but it would be better with a lowest budget as possible as i do have other stuff on my list to buy this year :P
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you will get a canon 300d or 350d for less than £200 - prob £100-£150 if your lucky
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Completely disregarding what I said above...the other thing is that everyone says that the lens is more important than the glass. So youd be ok with the cheapest slr body you can find, so long as you have an alright lens. Of course, these cost money, but if you did find it becoming a hobby you can keep the lenses and trade up the body.
But factor in that for sports youll want a telephoto lens = £200 for a decent one minimum I think, 50mm lens for ebay shots and the likes = £80, and the lenses themselves are more than you want to spend. Unless it is a hobby where the act of taking the pictures and the memory of the moment is more important than the sharpness and quality of the picture, in which case £40 for a wide lens and £50 for a telephoto lens, they wont be great but youll be able to take pictures with them :D
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300D
http://www.lcegroup.co.uk/SHdetails.asp?Item=24451
350D
http://www.lcegroup.co.uk/SHdetails.asp?Item=23740
The 2 above are only rated 3 star though, i guess its out of 5 stars, gives me an idea of what they sell for in retail though.
So im guessing 18-55mm lens is what you refer to as a 50mm lens for general shots?
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300d ends in 13hrs
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CANON-EOS-300D-/330462920450?pt=UK_CamerasPhoto_DigitalCameras_DigitalCameras_JN
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300d ends in 13hrs
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CANON-EOS-300D-/330462920450?pt=UK_CamerasPhoto_DigitalCameras_DigitalCameras_JN
I saw that one but the lens is scratched and it needs a new battery, should i be wary?
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So im guessing 18-55mm lens is what you refer to as a 50mm lens for general shots?
No, 50mm is 50mm, 18-55mm is 18-55mm. Though I admit I am probably wrong in suggesting a 50mm as a starter, youd probably be better off with the 18-55mm as its more versatile, but not as sharp as a 50mm. I just got a 50mm and think its great, the only thing being that the "zoom" is with your feet.
Bare in mind that as the 18-55mm kit lenses have a bad rep and are quite often obtained as a kit, they are extremely common on ebay so you CAN pick up a pristine 18-55 for < £50, the ones Ive seen have gone for £25-£35 lately. you might find it cheaper to get a body+duff lens, and sell the duff lens on, and get a better one, than to get one with a ok lens?
I hadnt mentioned the 350D due to its age, but it certainly was/is a very popular camera.
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I had a 350D for a long time, was an awesome camera, still is really if you dont mind the lower MP count
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So im guessing 18-55mm lens is what you refer to as a 50mm lens for general shots?
No, 50mm is 50mm, 18-55mm is 18-55mm. Though I admit I am probably wrong in suggesting a 50mm as a starter, youd probably be better off with the 18-55mm as its more versatile, but not as sharp as a 50mm. I just got a 50mm and think its great, the only thing being that the "zoom" is with your feet.
Bare in mind that as the 18-55mm kit lenses have a bad rep and are quite often obtained as a kit, they are extremely common on ebay so you CAN pick up a pristine 18-55 for < £50, the ones Ive seen have gone for £25-£35 lately. you might find it cheaper to get a body+duff lens, and sell the duff lens on, and get a better one, than to get one with a ok lens?
I hadnt mentioned the 350D due to its age, but it certainly was/is a very popular camera.
I understand, it might sell for a lower price because the lens is damaged but the lenses are cheap enough to warrant a lower bid. I was reading earlier the links i posted above, one of those cameras comes with an 18-55mm USM lens which is apparently the type i should be looking for. (Ring ultrasonic (USM) drive.)
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300d ends in 13hrs
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CANON-EOS-300D-/330462920450?pt=UK_CamerasPhoto_DigitalCameras_DigitalCameras_JN
I saw that one but the lens is scratched and it needs a new battery, should i be wary?
the 300d are going to be a few years old now.. batteries are less than £5 - I think I got a pair on ebay for about that.
if your in no rush, then just find the one thats right for you...
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I think what i need now is to put a list together of potential cameras i could buy and wait til one comes up, so a little more feedback would be great, i.e. good cameras £100-200.
Canon 300D
Canon 350D
Canon 400D
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Aye. Id add a 400D to that list in case you get lucky.
Bits of Lingo to watch out for in case youre a noob like me when it comes to all the jargon (hopefully in understandable laymans terms):
IS = image stabilisation
USM = faster focusing basically
"L" = Canons premium lenses, premium quality with a premium price
Aperture/"F" = Not sure entirely what the correct definition is, all I know is that the lower the number, the "faster" the lens can be (lower number is more open = more light on the sensor = fast shots etc, but less depth of field) The lenses with lower F values tend to be more expensive
Depth of field/DoF = how much of the image is in focus when you focus on a certain point, ala macro shots etc.
Focal range/ "18-55mm" etc = the zoom and viewing angle. Lower numbers are wider angle. Higher numbers are bigger zoom. 50mm is kind of the sweet spot, Ive invested in a 17-85mm zoom lens as a general lens, but also now have a 50mm for when I want to mess around with photographing objects etc, and a cheap 70-300mm for if I am needing to zoom in on things.
"prime" = a fixed lens, like the 50mm. These tend to be slightly better quality as they dont have to compromise over a range of focal distances
EF and EF-S = the lens mount type. The digital EOS cameras you are likely to get all will take both EF and EF-S. EF-S is made specially for the smaller sized cameras like the 350D etc, and only work on those cameras, whilst EF are compatible with the more expensive cameras.
Thats all I can think of at the moment in terms of things that at some point or other Ive seen people mention and thought "WTF does that mean". We all have to learn sometime haha.
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Now all the information in the thread needs to be sorted out into a buyers guide to be stickied at the top of the forum :)
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I think at entry level all the major manufacturers are about even so prob just go with whatever fits your budget - plenty of lenses out there whether you go canon, nikon, sony or pentax etc..
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I know theres a lot of talk of getting a low end older model SLR, but might be worth looking at a decent point and shoot.
For the budget stated (125-175) you can get an excellent point and shoot with a good lens, lots of manual functions and HD video recording.
Whilst I adore my Canon DSLRs, Im always amazed at the bang for buck/performance of the Panasonic Lumix TZ series.
You can get a TZ5 (10mpx, leica lens, 10x optical zoom, 720p recording) for 100 quid second hand. A brand new TZ6 is 150 or a TZ7 for 179 delivered on Amazon (very good deal imho).
The other half has a TZ5 (as does the flatmate) - really cant fault it.
For what youd like to do (eBay, Gumtree, out with mates/family, car shows, some landscape/scenary) itll be perfect.
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Im sure Kunal would say that you need Canon 1D Mark IV - http://www.tekforum.co.uk/posts/list/16940.page ;)
But like Zpyer says, what do you want? My personal preference are Panasonic Lumix TZ for point and shoot and Canon SLR thats what I would suggest to my friends, but not adverse to other brands.
Also a budget would be useful? :)
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