QuoteThe FIA has hit McLaren with an unprecedented $100 million fine and docked the team its constructors championship points for the current season after finding them guilty of spying on rivals Ferrari.
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12433_2726659,00.html
I think it is harsh tbh but then again with the amount of pressure to persue this Ferrari have done and the number of ferrari type people on the board it was bound to be harsh:/
Mclearen have warned they will release proof to prove a number of other of the teams have done similar or worse that they thought was the standard meddling of this sort but now if they can be punished this hard for doing it they are going to show what the other teams are up to and expect similar punishments.
Rightly so, If they show proof that others do it and the Board do nothing about it them it will show how Mclaren have been targeted becuase ferrari aint going to win anything this year And if the other teams do end up going up the same as them then some may not even survive and either way the sport is going to be in a mess.
And I think Mclaren should do it
$100m!! Fin eck!
Quote from: Kunal$100m!! Fin eck!
They thought it would be min 1mill and max 10 mill
And take note this is based on virtually NO evidence, FIA findings are not even out till tomorrow and probably show no proof of anything.
Todays decision seems to be based on some emails between the drivers that were unseen by team bosses till today.
It is all very bizzare and I think Mclarren once again have been moaned at by ferrari like in seasons past and the board full of red car folk and they finally had something of anything and not just car part bannings and fines to basically get mclaren. They been trying all sorts for years and even when 3-4 teams or more complain about ferrari parts they tend to be able to keep them
Ferrari own a lot of F1 tbh and tend to get their way in things and it is sad
QuoteFerrari own a lot of F1 tbh and tend to get their way in things and it is sad
aint that the truth and until that tw*t of a president max mosely steps down and stops being in ferraris back pocket itll continue to be like that.
it gauls me that ferrari think winning this way is in anyway acceptable, instantly i think back to last year with the sudden banning of mass dampers at the point where it looked like renault were going to run off and hide with both championships, and at monza where alonso was impeeded for in no way affecting massa in qualifying and got penalised grid places.
me thinks the coffers are running a little low at fia hq and this tidy sum will fill that gap. jackie stewart said on 5live earlier how hed like to know where the moneys going and i cant blame him, it aint no small amount.
and what about coughlan and, more importantly stepney, where are their punishments because lets face it theyre the whole point of this sorry affair.
i hope mclaren do come forward with any information they have on other teams and i hope to god someone, maybe stepney i dont care so long as it happens, gives up the bodies which apparently he knows of and drags the ferrari name and brand through the mud because that would be sweet justice.
QuoteI think it is harsh tbh but then again with the amount of pressure to persue this Ferrari have done and the number of ferrari type people on the board it was bound to be harsh:/
which is why cases like these and in the past will always be unfair, and unjust. they need totally independant people, you wouldnt get a guy on trial for murder and stick 1/2 of his family in the jury would you?
anyway, ive waffled and worked myself up now so ill stop, but i hope for their sake, and the credibility of F1 that theres some evidence tomorrow.
edit - sack that, im on a roll, im carrying on
what also beggers belief is how this isnt the first time heavily classified info has gone wandering out through the front gates of maranello, altho last time they werent fighting toyota, who lets face it were running a near perfect copy of a ferrari motor, for the championships at the time, so nothing came of it. Why?
This season has been littered with inconsistent judgements from the fia. in hungary mclaren were fined for holding up hamilton during qualifying....ferrari forgot to effing fill massas car with fuel?!!?! how big a hold up do you want by a team.........yet no punishment.
In light of everything that has just been said above. It still does not change the fact that an McLaren employee had in his possesion a good few hundred pages long of technical data on ferrari.
I dont like it any more than you do but they should have not had it in their possesion.
They were lucky. Ferrari pressure or no ferrari pressure if they had managed to prove that those documents were used in part of the 2007 cars development they would have been thrown out of the championship completely.
Quote from: Kunal$100m!! Fin eck!
A mere financial inconveniance for McLaren. If it was a couple of years ago when they were building there new factory it would have hurt. Its Just a baffling amount more than anything. Where is it going?
Awful descision. Makes my blood boil when I think about the blatent disregard for the rules (and the fia) shown by Ferrari many times over the years - yet the FIA still have their tongues firmly up Ferraris arses. Hope they enjoy this title because its the only way theyre looking likely to win anything at the minute.
Quote from: CypherIn light of everything that has just been said above. It still does not change the fact that an McLaren employee had in his possesion a good few hundred pages long of technical data on ferrari.
I dont like it any more than you do but they should have not had it in their possesion.
They were lucky. Ferrari pressure or no ferrari pressure if they had managed to prove that those documents were used in part of the 2007 cars development they would have been thrown out of the championship completely.
Quote from: Kunal$100m!! Fin eck!
A mere financial inconveniance for McLaren. If it was a couple of years ago when they were building there new factory it would have hurt. Its Just a baffling amount more than anything. Where is it going?
M8, I think you do no realise a few things
As for the document, this happens all the time and McLaren handed it over right away once they knew he had it and suspended him. Teams find out about other team stuff constantly and happens weekly. When a designer or engineer moves team they of course take what they know with them and you cant stop their home documentation then being used for the new teams - happens all the time and is nothing new and McLaren being punished like they have been has been nothing more then a witch hunt.
As for the money again you do not realise. $100mill fine and constructors lost for the year so the total to win money is gone, the money earned for the rest of the season in this regard will not be there. You may have sponsorship problems and becuase the team will not win anything that could have implications in this area
They turn over 500-600million dollors a season and will probably loose out on 200million this year or more roughly (this has all been said on the news by people like eddie jordon)
So basically they will loose out on double or more of that fine at the end of the year and has further implications for the team...
And again at the end of the day with NO proof that the team used the document in any shape or form. So one bad egg can cause this when its going on all over the place you should be able to see how stupid this has been since it was the McLaren bosses who told ferrari they had someone with the document.
The Ferrari guy was not bribed or paid to hand it over he just gave it to a m8 basically
I think there is a slight difference between a change of staff and bringing their knowledge and experiance from previous projects and a 700 page technical dosier sitting in one of your senior engineers homes.
You cant just turn a blind eye to it. Its very easy to be patriotic and not accept this.
Dont get me wrong. I think the punishment is over the top, not so much the points but the fine. It seems pointless. But I am just glad they are not interfering with the Driver championship, they were desperate not to.
Quote from: CypherI think there is a slight difference between a change of staff and bringing their knowledge and experiance from previous projects and a 700 page technical dosier sitting in one of your senior engineers homes.
You cant just turn a blind eye to it. Its very easy to be patriotic and not accept this.
Dont get me wrong. I think the punishment is over the top, not so much the points but the fine. It seems pointless. But I am just glad they are not interfering with the Driver championship, they were desperate not to.
You cant turn a blind eye, no, but such documents sit in all engineers homes in some form or another it is just here it was passed on rather then taken with.
And still the fact is Mclaren thought they were doing the right thing and told Ferrari and the FIA as soon as they found out he had it, No one would probably know if they did that and still there is no proof they used any of it.
So they got done for being honest, go figure, lol
Ive been waiting to hear the FIA comments on why they have done this. I wasnt going to argue with "there was no proof" until then.
ooh err :?
QuoteThe data McLaren received over the three-month period concerned the Ferrari cars brakes, weight distribution, aerodynamic balance and tyre inflation.
In a 16-page document, the FIA said e-mails showed that test driver De la Rosa and reigning world champion Alonso had been aware of the Ferrari data
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/6995240.stm
QuoteIn what is being viewed as the most damning section of the report, the FIA has published an e-mail exchange between De la Rosa and Alonso.
"All the information from Ferrari is very reliable," De la Rosa wrote to Alonso on 25 March in an exchange about the Ferraris weight distribution.
"It comes from Nigel Stepney, their former chief mechanic - I dont know what post he holds now.
"Hes the same person who told us in Australia that Kimi (Raikkonen) was stopping in lap 18. Hes very friendly with Mike Coughlan, our chief designer and he told him that."
What this does is blow open the general opinion that it was just 2 people involved.
http://www.fia.com/mediacentre/Press_Releases/FIA_Sport/2007/September/140907-01.html
Cheating scumbags.....
They should have banned Alonso from the championship if anything!
Quote from: CypherIve been waiting to hear the FIA comments on why they have done this. I wasnt going to argue with "there was no proof" until then.
ooh err :?
QuoteThe data McLaren received over the three-month period concerned the Ferrari cars brakes, weight distribution, aerodynamic balance and tyre inflation.
In a 16-page document, the FIA said e-mails showed that test driver De la Rosa and reigning world champion Alonso had been aware of the Ferrari data
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/6995240.stm
QuoteIn what is being viewed as the most damning section of the report, the FIA has published an e-mail exchange between De la Rosa and Alonso.
"All the information from Ferrari is very reliable," De la Rosa wrote to Alonso on 25 March in an exchange about the Ferraris weight distribution.
"It comes from Nigel Stepney, their former chief mechanic - I dont know what post he holds now.
"Hes the same person who told us in Australia that Kimi (Raikkonen) was stopping in lap 18. Hes very friendly with Mike Coughlan, our chief designer and he told him that."
What this does is blow open the general opinion that it was just 2 people involved.
http://www.fia.com/mediacentre/Press_Releases/FIA_Sport/2007/September/140907-01.html
Not really he was a bad egg using the info he had to drivers and not through the chain of command and the rest of the team and 2 of 3 drivers using it.
You can pick up such information overhearing in the paddock or seeing a document open as you walk past another engineer eating his lunch in on eof the many lunch areas if he was not being careful and such things go on every race weekend
The guy was a twat with what he knew and he knew it, still not proof the team used anything really bar listening to one of their workers on settings etc and soon as the actual team were aware of what he had they told the FIA and Ferrari
Some form of punishment should have been issues but it should have been a small team fine and punishment to the actual people involved but that would mean the world champion probably being banned from racing for the rest of the season etc and you can so easily see how its been a cola berated which hunt going on directed to Mclaren
Everyone knows Alonso aint happy there for example with his winging and moaning so a chance to put the knife in and have FIA immunity backing you up it all seems very dodgy.
More stuff will out of the coming weeks I am sure, Alonso is history with Mclarent for next season, that is dam obvious now, but Mclaren are going to take other teams with them and expect similar punishments..
Oooh, watching the TV now, seems the talk is that the money fine was wanted by FIA for some things they could not afford and bring down the development of Mclaren becuase they have to much. Would not put it past Max Mosley becuase he really is a ferrari fan boy and Really does hate Mclaren something fierce.
Calling one of the most respected folk in f1 a liar is really pushing it
Alonso wont leave McLaren. He has 3 year contractual deal to honour.
Why are still trying to fight a lost cause? The facts are there in front of you. They cheated. The drivers were no thrown out because they agreed to testify.
Who ever wins this year, if Mclaren, Alonso or Hamilton, will be forever branded a cheat. That is the sad fact of the matter.
Quote from: CypherAlonso wont leave McLaren. He has 3 year contractual deal to honour.
Why are still trying to fight a lost cause? The facts are there in front of you. They cheated. The drivers were no thrown out because they agreed to testify.
Who ever wins this year, if Mclaren, Alonso or Hamilton, will be forever branded a cheat. That is the sad fact of the matter.
May not be a question if he does leave, he will probably get the sack.
I am not fighting a lost cause by a long way and watching the qualifying and listening to all people all the way through It and just reiterating all what I have said from all corners bar of course ferrari and FIA I will stick by that and more will out from this and Indeed again I am justified in how everyone is saying that this sort of thing happens everywhere and it being a very big and dangerous president becuase if MC get it half or more of the other teams will be open for the same punishment or FIA with even more questions to answer for.
the fact that the phrase "Dennis was told if he were to retire now all McLarens problems would disappear" shows this whole thing was a whichhunt by max mosely.
The release the put out yesterday was nothing but vague at best, and using the words It seems alot doesnt exactly hammer home any specific points.
well be a f1 team that not only has the money but actually has is massivly in the black and very much stronger then any other f1 team and I think he just did not like it and your right, even though it really is something of nothing and nothing new just becuase that document was known to exist because Ron bloody told them over the many other similar documents that exist in the hush hush it was something to hurt Mclaren and Ron.
And you got to Feel for Ron Dennis, he looks really drained today on tv and then Max Mosley sticking more knives in him today as well, really hurt him