I've had intermittent trouble with starting the car over the last year or so. She'll generally start just fine cold but warm starts are 'never guaranteed'!
Yesterday was the worst; it felt like the starter motor was jammed solid. Dials were going a bit crazy too and the radio security/code doohickey locked me out. Called recovery and... guess what happened as soon as he turned up... :disappointed: :roll:
Is it a 'fading' battery or a seizing motor - or a bit of both? Car is 10 years old, bless her. :)
radio security code and crazy dials are usually a sign of a dying battery. They are cheapest and I'm sure you could manage that yourself give it ago.
Most service garages will offer a 'free battery test' might be worth a visit, or if you have a multimeter test it yourself.
it sound be a bad connection somewhere if it wouldn't start and then was fine later on.... if it's a bad battery it normally just gets worse
what was it like in the cold ? the cold really cuts down the output and storage capacity of your battery
Quote from: DEViANCE on April 23, 2011, 14:53:13 PM
radio security code and crazy dials are usually a sign of a dying battery. They are cheapest and I'm sure you could manage that yourself give it ago.
It's a megane - you have to take half the engine out to get at the battery! :gag:
QuoteMost service garages will offer a 'free battery test' might be worth a visit, or if you have a multimeter test it yourself.
Will do that. Once the UK's finished pissing about with Bank holidays...
Quote from: knighty on April 23, 2011, 15:18:36 PM
it sound be a bad connection somewhere if it wouldn't start and then was fine later on.... if it's a bad battery it normally just gets worse
what was it like in the cold ? the cold really cuts down the output and storage capacity of your battery
Fine in the cold and cold starts are ok too. It's usually when I've travelled somewhere and on return to the car it struggles. I then leave it 10-30 mins and it starts fine. Error not reproducible...
Further reading suggests it could be a dirty/worn Top Dead Centre Sensor (TDC) ... anyone heard of this? ???
my Fabia is a similar age and has trouble starting warm. Cold it fires first time every time even in the depths of winter, but woe betide anyone who tries to start it with the engine near normal operating temperature.
My starter motor always turns though, just the engine doesn't fire. Could yours be an imobiliser problem? my old 306 used to intermittantly decide to imobilise itself for 10 minutes then be fine again.
Edit: when mine plays up it's often the case that the first attempt seems to reset something and the second or third time it'll just start as if to say "what's all the fuss about? I start perfectly!". I've taken to not expecting it to start the first time I turn the key when it's warm, I just let it turn over a couple of times then stop and try again, the second try usually does it even though from experience it would have carried on turning over indefinitely if I'd kept on with the first try.
That was another theory I've read about. Some managed to get it started after locking and unlocking the car again via remote. Doesn't seem to work on mine though.
The starter motor begins to kick-in and there seems to be enough welly from the battery but it just doesn't manage to turn over, hence the TDC theory.
I can accept the expense of running a 10 year old car but not knowing what's wrong does my head in! :panic:
One thing I'm trying now - and I have no rationale for doing so - is to kick the revs high then kill the engine when turning it off. No idea if that'll affect anything...
What's the car? My Beemer doesn't like starting from warm sometimes, it's lifter pump related.
Quote from: Eagle on April 29, 2011, 22:34:55 PM
That was another theory I've read about. Some managed to get it started after locking and unlocking the car again via remote. Doesn't seem to work on mine though.
The starter motor begins to kick-in and there seems to be enough welly from the battery but it just doesn't manage to turn over, hence the TDC theory.
I can accept the expense of running a 10 year old car but not knowing what's wrong does my head in! :panic:
One thing I'm trying now - and I have no rationale for doing so - is to kick the revs high then kill the engine when turning it off. No idea if that'll affect anything...
Seems to be a lot of talk about the TDC/Crankshaft sensor around the net, you could try unplugging/cleaning reconnecting, and check the wire to make sure its not damaged in anyway.
QuoteI can say that cleaning the TDC sensor is like magic: Took me longer to get the tools out than to fix. The result is amazing, starts first go hot or cold, and I'm sure it runs better.
The advice is spot on, and easy to follow, so thanks to all of you for helping me to solve a problem I would have struggled over.
(http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/3762/ctsl.jpg)
image found on another forum
Cheers, gonna hunt that sucker down tomorrow and clean her right up.
@Clock'd - it's a 2001 Megane Classic (Priviledge+ I might add! ;))
Well, cleaned TDCs and still no joy. :(
In a bit of a rage by now, I kept the ignition key on permanent start and cranked for dear life. The starter motor turned slowly, slowly, slowly, faster, faster, faster and then eventually kicked-in after about ten seconds. Can't be good for it but that tells me it's not the battery.
Turned it off. Started just fine. Turned it off again, started just fine.
It'll be 'stuck' once again later.
Gah.. :disappointed:
Next time if starter stick give the starter a good tap with a hammer and see if it starts, if so when you need new brushes.
Hmm. Thanks but if that's the case, why would it start fine 'sometimes'?
I've had the battery checked and it's fine.
Next to check is the immobiliser but if it's the immobiliser then cranking it for ten seconds and it starting would indicate it's not that...
Quote from: Eagle on April 30, 2011, 11:12:48 AM
Hmm. Thanks but if that's the case, why would it start fine 'sometimes'?
Worn brushes works sometimes and somtimes not, if they are worn and you tap starter they will make better contact.
Sounds sensor related to me.
QuoteWorn brushes works sometimes and somtimes not, if they are worn and you tap starter they will make better contact.
Ok, will try that next.
QuoteSounds sensor related to me.
Temp sensor? Clutch pedal sensor? Immob sensor?
Lol - the more I read online, the more things are becoming possible. I now have the 'options' of:
Coolant temperature sensor fault.
Clutch pedal sensor fault.
Key fob battery fault.
Dirty key. (yeah right...)
Immobiliser fault.
Earthing strap corroded.
Duff Solenoid.
Bloody nigtmare.
I'd stick it in the garage but this is an
intermittent fault - and you know that they
never manifest when at the garage! :yarr:
Quote from: Eagle on April 30, 2011, 12:50:24 PM
QuoteWorn brushes works sometimes and somtimes not, if they are worn and you tap starter they will make better contact.
Ok, will try that next.
QuoteSounds sensor related to me.
Temp sensor? Clutch pedal sensor? Immob sensor?
Lol - the more I read online, the more things are becoming possible. I now have the 'options' of:
Coolant temperature sensor fault.
Clutch pedal sensor fault.
Key fob battery fault.
Dirty key. (yeah right...)
Immobiliser fault.
Earthing strap corroded.
Duff Solenoid.
Bloody nigtmare.
I'd stick it in the garage but this is an intermittent fault - and you know that they never manifest when at the garage! :yarr:
Another fault i read that you can add if you like is dirty ECU connections.
Next time don't buy Renault :P
Quote from: Eagle on April 30, 2011, 12:50:24 PM
QuoteWorn brushes works sometimes and somtimes not, if they are worn and you tap starter they will make better contact.
Ok, will try that next.
QuoteSounds sensor related to me.
Temp sensor? Clutch pedal sensor? Immob sensor?
Lol - the more I read online, the more things are becoming possible. I now have the 'options' of:
Coolant temperature sensor fault.
Clutch pedal sensor fault.
Key fob battery fault.
Dirty key. (yeah right...)
Immobiliser fault.
Earthing strap corroded.
Duff Solenoid.
Bloody nigtmare.
I'd stick it in the garage but this is an intermittent fault - and you know that they never manifest when at the garage! :yarr:
None of the above, smart-arse :)
Try Cam position sensor or crank position sensor.
Instead of guessing, why not spend a bit of cash and get it plugged up to a computer. That'll see what faults are being thrown back by the ECU.
Unless it's a mechanical fault.
I mentioned earlier that I'd tried the TDC sensor.
Cleaning it won't work, it's a hall effect sensor.
Hmm, cleaning seems to have worked for many a folk. I suppose it's a cheap option to buy and try but I'd be surprised if it works.
Now have the TDC sensor and waiting for the engine to cool a little before I fit it. Interested to know how a magnet can fail?
I also bought a fuel filter as the blerk at GSF suggested it could also be that. I'm now getting more and more cold start failures so possibly fuel draining away from the engine? She runs and idles just fine when started.
Is turning the ignition for 10 seconds+ going to cause any long-term damage? Any clues as to why it eventual kicks-in and starts when doing this?
:-\
[edit] Sensor now fitted and waiting six hours+ to see if she'll start....
:worried:
Magnet is on the moving part. That's a sensor, so the magnet hasn't failed.
Fuel filter problems usually manifest by the car cutting out 100 yards down the road once you've started it, and not catching again for ages when you try and start it again.
My Delica did that, although it was a fuel pump problem.
Get some mole grips on the fuel pipe when you change the filter, unleaded burns like a bitch.
Edit.
Yes, cranking can burn out the coil.
is it any better if you sit with the ignition on for 60 sec before you try to start it ?
Quote from: soopahfly on May 01, 2011, 14:36:08 PM
Magnet is on the moving part. That's a sensor, so the magnet hasn't failed.
Ok, thanks. :)
QuoteMy Delica did that, although it was a fuel pump problem.
My
next worry!
QuoteGet some mole grips on the fuel pipe when you change the filter, unleaded burns like a bitch.
Good tip - I would have just ripped it off! Sounds like it isn't the problem but now I have the part, might as well...
QuoteYes, cranking can burn out the coil.
Alas, it's my only option at the mo'. Either that or walk.
Cheers. :)
Quote from: knighty on May 01, 2011, 14:37:43 PM
is it any better if you sit with the ignition on for 60 sec before you try to start it ?
Is that not a diesel thing - warming the coils etc?
...I'm praying it's the TDC, I really am... :worried:
I doubt it will be the fuel pump. My Delica was 16 years old, with 90k on the clock.
Changes in fuel between when it was made and when I was using it had caused the rubber to perish.
If the sensor is a common failure, then chances are it's that.
Even if it isn't you've probably dodged a bullet.
Cheers.
What I'm thinking though is; could the car still start (which it eventually does with cranking) with a dead TDC sensor?
It's probably only starting with cranking once when the sensor remembers what it's there for.
Quote from: Eagle on May 01, 2011, 13:57:03 PMAny clues as to why it eventual kicks-in and starts when doing this?
Duff solenoid could do that (or "stuck" solenoid)
Maybe but that doesn't explain why it only sticks sometimes. :) I would have thought it's either fecked or not. :)
My Astra was a bugger for it tbh.
Well, wasn't the sensor - and the non-starting's getting worse. Off to the car doctor tomorrow. Way beyond me.
Thanks for the helpz.
Turned out to be......
...
......
.....
....
The damn battery. I got QF to test it last week and they said it was fine. W@nkers. :disappointed:
The voltage was actually ok but the Amps had tanked-out to just 17 (instead of 500!). :o
Oh well, sorted now. :cheers:
:D :thumbup:
Nice, easy and cheap fix then :D
Well, cheap-ish. Just thankful because it could have been worse. ;)