Fellow forumites :wave:
My PC is starting to feel little sluggish and is getting on a bit, which I think is predominantly down to my large memory requirements, slow HDD and with the amount of stuff I have open throughout the day.
Current spec:
Core2Duo E8400 @ 3Ghz (not overclocking, had no end of issues getting this mobo running it stable as is)
8Gb DDR2 @ whatever (1066?)
XFX Radeon HD6870 1Gb Black Ed.
The graphics card I have no wish to upgrade as games are fine, I just want the system in general to feel very responsive and fast to load and do things in Photoshop. With this in mind, what would be the optimal cost effective upgrade in terms of mobo, CPU, memory and an SSD for the OS and apps to give me that boost?
Just to add I'm not fussed about loads of peripheral ports, etc on the mobo. I have no need for USB3/eSATA and stuff like that.
£100ish worth of SSD and a windows re-install and you should be flying. I cant see any reason why that spec wouldnt be nice and responsive.
It's DDR2 so is relatively slow and it's only 8Gb. It's snappy and fast on startup but really struggles when you have Photoshop, Illustrator, three browsers and various other bits running over the course of a day. I'm not the rebooting type either, I generally leave work and things open in the background which isn't a habit I'm keen to change tbh.
If I could fit more memory that would appease me, but the board won't take more and it seems I need to go to DDR3 to increase my memory capacity, hence needing a core bundle upgrade.
I'm on a core 2 duo 2Ghz laptop and only 3GB of ram, and often have lots of stuff open and I wouldn't call it slow at all, I do sometimes feel that my RAM does limit me, but my laptop can only go to 6GB and it's a bit picky about which ones you can use, but dont really have many problems of being unresponsive.
I'm on an SSD and that certainly helps...
Have you had a look at your running services and background services and also is your anti virus slowing things down lots? You can put some programs in the exceptions which may help?
SSD is my main suggestion, and keep stuff off of your desktop or other frequently used places as your virus scan might be scanning that. Have you disabled your pagefile as well, give it a go as it will limit your HD access, which is likely to be your bottleneck..
I use a Ramdisk instead of a pagefile (unless that gets full obviously) and I don't run an antivirus (only scheduled runs Monday 5am). I mean I have serious amounts of stuff open, an SSD would help but I don't really want to be shuffling around a pagefiles on it constantly and I'd rather fix the core problem which is 8Gb of ram isn't enough.
From what I can tell I need to spend about £250 minimum for it to be worth it, ideally I'd get an i5 2500K, cheapie motherboard and a chepaish 16Gb ram set
How much of your 8Gb are you using with the RAM disk, have you tried disabling that entirely, which will givev you more RAM?
And I'm sure it's a silly question but you are running in 64bit mode?
Also if you do go down the SSD route, you don't want to be running a page file, as it can slow things down doing so!
You guys can't really think 16Gb is excessive? I think 6Gb is a bare minimum these days tbh. I tried to balance the speed of the Ramdisk for temp stuff and photoshop scratch disk (which is only 2Gb) with actual virtual memory space, so I have 6gb free. I really do just need another 8Gb or so of memory. I'm got Photoshop with 5 small files open, Firefox, Chrome, MSN, Windows Live Mail and uTorrent running and I'm using 64% of my memory already, it doesn't take much to eat it really.
How do you not run 64-bit mode? :lol:
If you're sitting at 64% and your computer is slow, then memory isn't your issue :|
Find the bottleneck! :) if it's linux I'd recommend viewing vmstat and iostat to check for blocking calls to the filesystem or tracking mem usage over time.
Resource monitor in win7 is a pretty good tool that may be able to help.
It's sitting at 64% and not slow right now because I'm not pushing it - don't forget to factor in the 2Gb ramdisk. In fact... see below... What I'm saying is over the course of a days work it is like a stabbed rat fast as hell to begin with until it runs out of steam because I run out of memory. It is a visible, tangible and empirically observable result.
Do you all sit with one browser tab open and a game of Solitaire minimised? This isn't the Windows 95 days, I do appreciate you're all trying to help but come on guys give me some credit. Can't I please just have some hardware recommendations instead of being told the n00bie stuff? :lol:
(http://img806.imageshack.us/img806/7862/normaln.png)
If anyone genuinely thinks that is an unusual amount of stuff to have open then I think you must do very little on your PCs all day.
4GB DDR2 Ram - 3Ghz E5600...
Currently sitting at 92 Processes :\ 48% ram remaining not slow in the slightest.
I'd say that you have other issues rather than a lack of ram, but if you want to throw money at it, just buy some :|
A full upgrade is called for IMO the tech of your current rig is 4 years old not only is this your personal PC it is also your work machine and should be considered accordingly, it would be fair to say you need so many browsers open for testing purposes? ...so you need a fairly current system with a decent amount of Ram - don't forget this is a business expense so claim the VAT back and whatever upgrade is 20% cheaper straight away and so a bargain!
I would recommend a i5 2500k, 16gig of 1600 DDR3, 120gig SSD, 120 quid Z68 board, decent cooler and you should be sorted for a few years :)
Personally I think I misunderstood what you were asking, I thought you were looking for a cheap upgrade with max performance, not a full set of system components, in which case I'm out as I haven't built a system in years :)
However the Vertex 3 120gb SSD is very good! >500MB/s read/write and the initial issues they had have now gone.. Get the 120Gb version as the 60GB is slower (£104.99 inc. VAT @ Aria)
M3ta7h3ad, well I don't really see how and tbh I'm not going to get into a peeing contest over running processes and optimised OSes (although I would be interested to see a print screen of your task manager to compare), I'd rather just throw a bit of money at it and have a productive workhorse than squeeze every last kb out of the available RAM :)
Sorry XEntity I possibly wasn't clear from the first post, what I'm after is a cheap upgrade, but it needs to be core bundle at the minimum, mobo+cpu+ram purely to get more memory and a bit more CPU grunt - the SSD would be a big boost but I can factor that in after working out the cost of the main components.
Thank you Shaun, any recommendations on the Z68 board, I've been struggling to find reviews and the best recommended budget board seems to be the Gigabyte Z68XP-UD3-ISSD. Cooler wise I'm thinking Noctua? Is there anything looming on the horizon I should wait for, either in terms of better tech or tech that will push other prices down?
nige, I thought you already had an SSD ?
anyway.... go with that Shaun said... it's pretty much what I've got here and I've never had any slow down ever... I don't run as much as you... but I don't restart for weeks at a time :-)
there's nothing new coming that I know about...
I've got that 64Gb Crucial SSD, but it's full of games. I'm not too fussed about an SSD initially as load times aren't a big problem as much as shuffling stuff around in swap files, I'd rather pick one up later as prices and tech on those is getting keener all the time.
thinking about it.... maybe just a format and re-install would do it ?
clean up some of the junk etc.... always makes a big difference here..... your rig should be able to handle pretty much anything as it is ?
It's been fine all weekend because I rebooted to do some windows updates and haven't opened anything yet. I guarantee as soon as I've done a days work it will be slow again. Photoshop memory usage alone can run into gigabytes when you're working on five or six designs. More ram would ram would fix it right up; Bacon suggested a new mobo to me on MSN but a new socket 775 mobo is £70 anyway, plus I'd have to swap my 2x4Gb pairs for 2x8Gb anyway, it hardly seems worth it so I might as well upgrade.
but... if it used to be ok... and now it's slow.... then a format will probably fix it ?
it's surprising the difference a format/reinstall makes!
It's always been slow past a certain point, it's just bugging me even more lately as I've had more work than usual and consequently had so much open I really started to realise how unresponsive it can feel at times especially when watching a processing bar in Photoshop. A reinstall might make it a bit faster but isn't going to work miracles.
I have a computer with just 2gb ram, works perfectly well and no problems on what I run on it. My other 2 have 4gb each. The new one has 8, although that is overboard compared to what I need it to do.
Not the issue though.
Quick options: If it's just slowing down over time during the day shut the thing down during lunch and restart. Issue solved. If you are using memory as a ramdisk then reduce the amount that is specified for that task.
Pricier option: How much do you earn from doing this? If more than £10K a year then the amount you are going to spend is fairly negligible. Just upgrade to a new mobo, I7 2700K, 16gb ram, SSD boot disk and stop whining - problem solved.*
There is also the problem of resources and things like memory leaks, this can cause issues like the above and sometimes it makes no difference how much RAM you have it still ends up slow or even not working.
* don't forget to see if you can reclaim tax as this is a business expense ;)
Maaaaaaaaan, I just want to throw money at the problem, please stop giving me sensible solutions guys, it's not gonna fly :lol:
Pricier option is more like it Serious! Firefox used to be an absolute nightmare for memory leaks, the new Aurora is behaving itself though, it rarely even crashes on me now.
As it stands I'm thinking this board (http://www.scan.co.uk/products/gigabyte-ga-z68ap-d3-intel-z68-s-1155-ddr3-sata-iii-6gb-s-raid-sata-pcie-20-%28x16%29-vga-on-board-atx) recommended by Bacon, 2500K CPU and 16Gb of whatever - I might go for 2x8Gb sticks if its not much price difference to 4x4Gb sticks, then I could get 32Gb later for ultimate 'leave everything open, forever' working...
Quote from: Clock'd 0Ne on March 18, 2012, 02:48:44 AM
Pricier option is more like it Serious! Firefox used to be an absolute nightmare for memory leaks, the new Aurora is behaving itself though, it rarely even crashes on me now.
As it stands I'm thinking this board (http://www.scan.co.uk/products/gigabyte-ga-z68ap-d3-intel-z68-s-1155-ddr3-sata-iii-6gb-s-raid-sata-pcie-20-%28x16%29-vga-on-board-atx) recommended by Bacon, 2500K CPU and 16Gb of whatever - I might go for 2x8Gb sticks if its not much price difference to 4x4Gb sticks, then I could get 32Gb later for ultimate 'leave everything open, forever' working...
I can do it both ways, if it really doesn't need it then I'll suggest a cheaper option. In this case it is your business and livelihood, so you need good kit. You gotta bite the bullet and spend, spend, spend! :heehaw: :heehaw:
I would check on the extras the 2700K offers before you buy, it does have some benefits beyond the extra 100mhz.
Gigabyte GA-Z68AP-D3 is good and reliable, providing you want to use the 7.1 sound, then you only have 3 sockets on the back. That means either using the sound off the HDMI or a separate socket.. It also has usually redundant serial and parallel interfaces on the back.
OK, that's 3K plus vat for the advice ;) ;D
:lol:
I'm not bothered about onboard sound at all, I have an ESI Juli@ soundcard. It will be nice to have SATA 6Gbps finally, I can squeeze a bit more performance out of my SSD :)
So it looks like I'm looking at around £100 for the memory, £70 for the mobo and £160 for the 2500K CPU (looking at pricing dimishing returns kicks in quickly above this, so I won't splurge on a 2700K), plus a cooler... I guess I was expecting to get away with cheaper - and I could - but there's no point spending the money if it's not going to be a worthwhile upgrade I guess. This is for my livelihood after all. I will definitely be claiming the tax back as a business expense ;)
Given that these CPUs now have onboard graphics, does anyone know if its possible to get Windows to use the IGP for display but then to set games/other 3D apps to use my PCIe card? If so, would I need to have both cabled up to my Dell and switch display ports?
This seemed like too good a bargain to miss, so I've thrown a £30 gift voucher at it and ordered from Amazon a Crucial M4 128Gb (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004W2JKZI/ref=nosim/?tag=hotukdeals-21) for £89.99 delivered w/ discount :)
I'll get the other bits for a proper upgrade over the next month or so, as money provides.
Looks quite slow compared to the OCZ Vertex and others around that price?
nige, you selling your old stuff once you upgrade ?
I need to upgrade a machine at work ;)
Quote from: XEntity on March 20, 2012, 00:19:02 AM
Looks quite slow compared to the OCZ Vertex and others around that price?
The others seem quite a bit more money and as far as I've seen its only slower on writes, which don't matter so much? The firmware is more reliable than Sandforce anyway I think. If you can point out a better deal though I can cancel I think.
edit: Seems decent enough according to Bit-Tech!
QuoteSadly, I couldn't find a fancy picture that has all the in-depth specs like I could with the Vertex 3. Although the M4 isn't as fast as the Vertex 3, it has a much higher IOPS count for 4kb files. Just like the Vertex 3, the M4 was also awarded by Tom's Hardware as a 2011 recommended buy, as well as claimed to be the best 2.5" SSD on the market by SSD Review.
In fact its peeing all over it according to these benchmarks?
http://www.destructoid.com/review-ocz-vertex-3-vs-crucial-m4-solid-state-drive-213810.phtml (http://www.destructoid.com/review-ocz-vertex-3-vs-crucial-m4-solid-state-drive-213810.phtml) :dunno:
Yes knighty I should be although I already told the bloke that's been working on my car I might do him a deal on it as he was asking, but we'll see ;)
Cheap i5:
http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/2nd-generation-intel-core-i5-2320-3-00ghz-socket-lga1155-retail-for-129-98-delivered-1171682
Cheers, I might have been tempted by that if I hadn't just bunged on the SSD. Although it seems it might work in my favour to hold fire since Ivy Bridge chips are out soon and prices should drop further, might see the 2500K around that price soon if I'm lucky.
I'm considering a second I5 2500K and I'm also waiting to see what Ivy Bridge offers, retail availability should start in April.
TBH in a fit of total rationality I actually bought the motherboard that bacon suggested, it works great given the minor limitations I stated :ptu:. As put in my thread it has a 2500K CPU and 6870 graphics. I was going to buy the AMD one, honest :heehaw:
You know, if this continues, Bacon won't be able to get his head through the forum doors and you will have to enlarge them? :nana: :panic:
Quote from: Serious on March 21, 2012, 07:28:12 AM
I'm considering a second I5 2500K and I'm also waiting to see what Ivy Bridge offers, retail availability should start in April.
TBH in a fit of total rationality I actually bought the motherboard that bacon suggested, it works great given the minor limitations I stated :ptu:. As put in my thread it has a 2500K CPU and 6870 graphics. I was going to buy the AMD one, honest :heehaw:
You know, if this continues, Bacon won't be able to get his head through the forum doors and you will have to enlarge them? :nana: :panic:
Its a good motherboard, i just don't want to see people buying rubbish. :P Its what i would buy if i were to build a system now.
Quote from: Clock'd 0Ne on March 20, 2012, 03:01:49 AM
Quote from: XEntity on March 20, 2012, 00:19:02 AM
Looks quite slow compared to the OCZ Vertex and others around that price?
The others seem quite a bit more money and as far as I've seen its only slower on writes, which don't matter so much? The firmware is more reliable than Sandforce anyway I think. If you can point out a better deal though I can cancel I think.
edit: Seems decent enough according to Bit-Tech!
QuoteSadly, I couldn't find a fancy picture that has all the in-depth specs like I could with the Vertex 3. Although the M4 isn't as fast as the Vertex 3, it has a much higher IOPS count for 4kb files. Just like the Vertex 3, the M4 was also awarded by Tom's Hardware as a 2011 recommended buy, as well as claimed to be the best 2.5" SSD on the market by SSD Review.
In fact its peeing all over it according to these benchmarks?
http://www.destructoid.com/review-ocz-vertex-3-vs-crucial-m4-solid-state-drive-213810.phtml (http://www.destructoid.com/review-ocz-vertex-3-vs-crucial-m4-solid-state-drive-213810.phtml) :dunno:
Yes knighty I should be although I already told the bloke that's been working on my car I might do him a deal on it as he was asking, but we'll see ;)
My bad, I did have a look for the IOPs on the link you posted but they missed it off and I couldn't be buggered to look harder :)
i5's are going pretty cheap at the moment, I'm guessing this is because Ivybridge and the Z77 boards are coming out soon, so is it worth holding off another month or so to get the new tech?
Oooh this is interesting: http://vr-zone.com/articles/intel-cuts-desktop-ivy-bridge-cpu-pricing-ahead-of-launch/15557.html (http://vr-zone.com/articles/intel-cuts-desktop-ivy-bridge-cpu-pricing-ahead-of-launch/15557.html)
Right, I've decided Ivy Bridge is a waste of time (i.e not great value for my needs) and I'm going to get my components in the next couple of weeks hopefully:
(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/2355/nicethings.png)
Can someone reccommend a decent cooler that is not too bulky to complete the setup, I want something that will fit around the socket without affecting the 3/4 DIMM slots for when I eventually go up to 32Gb RAM.
Ahh, just realised that's a Retail CPU, I'll have to order elsewhere. In fact I'll get a 2500 or 2600, I didn't realise how poor value the 2550k was ::)
In a complete departure from my previous post I've gone for a monster Ivy Bridge setup :lol:
1 x Asus P8Z77-V PRO, Intel Z77, S1155
1 x LN 42833 - Intel Core i7 3770K S1155 Retail
2 x Corsair 16GB (2 x 8GB) LP Vengeance 1600MHz DDR3 240-pin DIMM CL10
1 x Noctua NH-C14 Top-Flow Flexible CPU
It was worth paying £6 more for the retail CPU for the extra 24 months warranty (and it wasn't on pre-order like the OEMs).
Benchmarks to come!
(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/17732136.jpg)
:thumbup:
Benchmarks!
(http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/6439/benchies.png)
Not bad considering I've not overclocked at all. I can't seem to get CPU temp up over 45C either :bow:
One thing puzzling me though is that I can't seem to get my IGP on the i7 detected, anyone know how to check/enable it in the ASUS UEFI? The overclocking options make no sense to me either, all this ratio per core business. What is the purpose of the economy/normal/extreme modes in the basic BIOS too, should I just leave it on normal? I thought things would be dead easy to setup in there but it all seems needlessly complicated now :dunno:
The 3770 as with other similar CPUs boosts it's own clock speed when a heavy load is put on the CPU. IIRC the clock is nominally 35*100 but can boost a good bit higher.
It is also reputed to run slightly hotter than the Sandybridge processors.
I also note you followed that Serious' idiotic suggestion to go for the 37xx series processor rather than the 25xx one ;)
I've clocked it up to Turbo boost of 40x (4Ghz) and made sure the BIOS doesn't do silly things with the core voltage like it was doing, still hard pressed to get the CPU hotter than 45-50C and it absolutely sh*ts all over anything I throw at it. If I could be bothered I reckon I'd easily get 4.4/maybe 4.5Ghz out of it, but its powerful enough as is so I'll keep her stable 8)
It was a good suggestion ;)
Ivy Bridge tends to do really well with temps until you hit a certain threshold and then the heat gets insane very quickly!
Still not as fast as my Sandybridge @ 5GHz tho looking at your benchmarks :P ...go on push it a bit higher! 7.03 to beat with SuperPI 32M :evil: you should be able to beat it at around 4.5 GHz :)
Yeah, I noticed the DIGI thing on the Asus UEFI was set to 140%! That's way too hot for IB, I scaled it down to 110% and now it only goes up to 1.2V max. I've noticed I get worse results from the multicore superpi than I do from standard, I think I could beat your 7 seconds with a push ;)
RAM is at default XMP settings too, so 800Mhz 10-10-10-27 (I forgot to add above nowehere is stocking the Corsair sticks I wanted so ended up with a Mushkin Enhanced Black Line set). I gather with Ivy Bridge ram speed doesn't make much difference though, the cache and code execution are so efficient.