Lately Ive been flooded with people chucking there couple year old pcs at me saying that they are slow as sh*t.
I nearly always recomend a fresh install of windows, as after 2-3years of spyware/pron/p2p/games most OSs are beyond help.
Soo this month Ive done a Dell, Medion, Time, Tiny, Packard Bell and more probably and Ive decided these big companies dont have clue (PB and Dell are probably the best)
for example im sitting infront of a P4 3.06HT Medion at the moment with loudest coolermater HSF ive ever heard, I think Im going deaf! This isnt even a Gaming PC, its got 512ram and onboard gfx so why use such a stupid HSF.
Also it had about 6 partitions on an 80gig HDD WHY!!! and most the drivers are windows default.
why do people buy these when you can go to a decent independant and get more speed, more quality and more knowledge for less money.
/rant
How do you know who is a decent independent?
Unless you either deal with them a lot, or have friends or colleagues who have, how do you tell a good independent from a bunch of jokers making anything up.
I agree with you for the most part, but I recently purchased a high end dell machine, mostly as I didnt have time to build it myself and test etc (final year uni project so no time to waste). For the most part it has been a very good machine. I removed and disabled most of the crap though.
Blaming people for taking the easy option isnt really fair, not everyone is technically minded and just want a machine that works out of the box.
Because these days no-one can compete with the big companies on price?
your both right, plenty of inderpendant cowboys out there too.
price is getting abit easier from what i can see, highstreet pcs seem to have stayed around the same price for the last 12months, but hardware like memory and HDDs are much much cheaper.
Show me an independant that wont fill a box with second hand crap - unless its a cad machine or a game box its gonna be built to price.
By way of comparison:
Dell Inspiron 530
VISTA HP
17" TFT
E2180 CPU
1GB
320GB SATA
etc...
£319 inc shipping & 12month warranty.
Clone build from Ebuyer prices
VISTA HP OEM: £63
17" TFT: £90
E2180: £44
1GB: £13
320GB: £50
MSI board: £28
Case&PSU: £15
DVDRW: £18
Thats £321, then you gotta add £100 labour and bits like fans, kb&mouse, some more stuff, & then shipping from ebuyer. Then you gotta provide warranty support for 12months at a cost to you of £x/ph.
Tbh I have worked with some awesome small-timer CAD boxes, so they are out there :)
im not saying it isnt cheaper to buy a ready made system, just that all the ones Ive been sorting out recently have been pretty poor quality.
I used to fix a lot of peoples systems when I was at uni, and for the most part it was the dodgy software that came with the computer that was the problem, Dell branded Windows with random crap that was meant to do something it didnt, etc etc.
Take all that off and stick to standard software and they were fine.
Dell et al build these ssytem specs for the least compatibility worries and for reliability. The last thing they want is hardware coming back all the time. Its as WG points out, 99% of problems are caused by the software or user error.
Interesting you make a point that most of the drivers are the windows defaults - in big deployments you strive for this where possible.
Windows default drivers almost never, ever, cause problems. The so-called updated ones that dont have WHQL signatures tend to be the biggest cause of headaches.
There are, ofcourse, circumstances where youd want to change the drivers, graphics for example, but even then if it isnt a case of being able to drop the cat, sys & inf in the OEMPnPDrivers path then chances are its not been written by someone whos drivers you want on your pc!
The funny thing about drivers and vista atm is that half the drivers out there dont work, even the latest.
The audio drivers for vista are shocking, and as far as I can tell it is completely across the board.
Add to that the problems with SP1, where if you have a certain onboard soundcard you cant update to SP1. And there is no current date for when they can.
It is mad.
Tis about time the main logistics of drivers are handled in a uniform manner that doesnt require very specific 3rd party driver to allow the device to work. Imagine if you needed a specific driver every time you bought a new USB Flash Drive.
Tis the same (to a lesser extent) with XP64. I havent had much trouble getting drivers for things, but mine is a relatively old machine, Id hate trying to find drivers for cutting edge gear.
Also, as plenty of programs work on both 32 and 64bit, why is there an issue with the odd program saying it cant work?
I agree with Sweenster, there needs to be a standard, not only for drivers, but for everything.
Quote from: sdpShow me an independant that wont fill a box with second hand crap - unless its a cad machine or a game box its gonna be built to price.
By way of comparison:
Dell Inspiron 530
VISTA HP
17" TFT
E2180 CPU
1GB
320GB SATA
etc...
£319 inc shipping & 12month warranty.
Clone build from Ebuyer prices
VISTA HP OEM: £63
17" TFT: £90
E2180: £44
1GB: £13
320GB: £50
MSI board: £28
Case&PSU: £15
DVDRW: £18
Thats £321, then you gotta add £100 labour and bits like fans, kb&mouse, some more stuff, & then shipping from ebuyer. Then you gotta provide warranty support for 12months at a cost to you of £x/ph.
Tbh I have worked with some awesome small-timer CAD boxes, so they are out there :)
The issue with Dell stuff though is 12 months down the line. To this day they often dont put slots in for extra graphics, they fill the two memory banks with smaller DIMMS, they cram the boards into the cases so you cant add storage or anything at all. Thats the cheaper range. Many people take the option not to compete instead of churning out cheap boxen at bottom price, that are often filled with crap because they have to so they can get the price down. I know many people who have bought the cheap dell boxes, and they are often quite pissed off with me when they want an upgrade and i epxlain it cant be done, or if it can itll cost about twice what they are expecting.
Quote from: DEViANCELately Ive been flooded with people chucking there couple year old pcs at me saying that they are slow as sh*t.
I nearly always recomend a fresh install of windows, as after 2-3years of spyware/pron/p2p/games most OSs are beyond help.
Soo this month Ive done a Dell, Medion, Time, Tiny, Packard Bell and more probably and Ive decided these big companies dont have clue (PB and Dell are probably the best)
for example im sitting infront of a P4 3.06HT Medion at the moment with loudest coolermater HSF ive ever heard, I think Im going deaf! This isnt even a Gaming PC, its got 512ram and onboard gfx so why use such a stupid HSF.
Also it had about 6 partitions on an 80gig HDD WHY!!! and most the drivers are windows default.
why do people buy these when you can go to a decent independant and get more speed, more quality and more knowledge for less money.
/rant
A lot of Medions come from Aldi, Ive had one and they are supplied with the correct drivers. They arent bad machines providing they are looked after.
lol do they still do the heinous practice of hot glue gunning every sodding connector into place? Now that... is an arse.
Next PC i buy will be pre-built. You just cant compete with the price and I just cant be arsed to faff around with everything anymore. Dell & HP both offer good computers for stupid cheap prices, stick a better gfx card in there and do a clean install of windows and your all sorted :)
Quote from: Doomsstick a better gfx card in there and do a clean install of windows and your all sorted :)
THis is the "problem" with pre-built computers. once you personally crack the side open the warranty is worthless. Plus, if you want a decent gaming box you are still better off buying the bits and building it yourself. Laptops yeah, buy them pre-built because custom building them is a nightmare.
Im not so sure anymore, once upon a time (back when Time / Tiny were big) companies used to secuirty seal their computer and even glue in the components. These days you dont see such things
Quote from: DoomsIm not so sure anymore, once upon a time (back when Time / Tiny were big) companies used to secuirty seal their computer and even glue in the components. These days you dont see such things
Except on pretty much most of the decent brands. Most often they just drop warranty stickers over the AGP/PCI-e ports, or they inspect the screws before braking the machine apart if it goes wrong. Though ive seen a fair few HP, Acer, Dell and various other machines with the security seals on the back.
Quote from: DoomsIm not so sure anymore, once upon a time (back when Time / Tiny were big) companies used to secuirty seal their computer and even glue in the components. These days you dont see such things
Tiny is a prime example of that crap. Spent bloody ages trying to get a molex connector unhitched from a hard drive a few weeks back on my parents old PC.
This dell actually came with instructions for part replacement.
Even came with easy install slots and pre-positioned wires for hdds.
This is one of their high end systems, but the internals are beautiful, much better than i could be bothered to do with a new machine if I had built it myself.
They obviously realise people who buy high end machines are likely to do things inside... as apposed to someone with a low end machine, where it will most likely be dumped in a corner and never touch again unless it goes wrong
Quote from: BeakerQuote from: DoomsIm not so sure anymore, once upon a time (back when Time / Tiny were big) companies used to secuirty seal their computer and even glue in the components. These days you dont see such things
Except on pretty much most of the decent brands. Most often they just drop warranty stickers over the AGP/PCI-e ports, or they inspect the screws before braking the machine apart if it goes wrong. Though ive seen a fair few HP, Acer, Dell and various other machines with the security seals on the back.
I havent seen this recently, my parents HP box came with instructions for upgrading and thumb screws/clip in drive bays throughout. Very upgrade friendly machine. Its not a top of the line box either. The HP/Compaq on my desk at work is a classic Compaq clip together SFF machine, no warrenty stickers evident (at least not from the outside, I havent had the top off since its not mine).
got 2 acer desktops in front of me right nowa bout to have security seals unpealed.
At home I have a Medion from tesco - its ace but god I hope the components arent glued in.......