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Chat => Entertainment & Technology => Topic started by: Rob on September 03, 2006, 20:15:41 PM

Title: Critique this spec
Post by: Rob on September 03, 2006, 20:15:41 PM
Coolermaster Centurion 5 - Silver/Black - No PSU    -    Ã,£39.95
Tagan 480W ATX 2.0 21 dBA Silent SLI ATX/BTX PSU - Retail    -    Ã,£59.63
Asus P5B i965P PCI-E (Socket 775) DDR2 Motherboard    -    Ã,£101.66
Intel Core 2 DUO E6400 2.13GHz Conroe 2Mb Cache LGA775 (1066 Mhz) - Retail    -    Ã,£162.15
Corsair Twin2X 1GB DDR2 (2x512MB) XMS2 5400C4    -    Ã,£67.43
Club 3D nVidia GeForce 7300GT 256MB DDR2 DVI/TV Out (PCI-E) - Retail    -    Ã,£56.40
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 SATAII NCQ 3Gb/s 320GB 16MB Cache OEM    -    Ã,£70.97
Pioneer DVR-111D 16x DVD Ã,±R/Ã,±RW/RAM Dual Layer Black - OEM    -    Ã,£24.09
3.5 inch Floppy Drive - Black    -    Ã,£4.95
19 TFT Monitor - Silver/Black 8ms w/ DVI (3 Years Onsite Warranty)    -    Ã,£124.95
Logitech Cordless Internet Pro Desktop Black - OEM    -    Ã,£24.68

   P&P   Ã,£16.90
   Total   Ã,£753.75


This is a spec Im making for a friend who is about to start university. He wants it to last as long as possible (at least 3-4 years) so it needs to be a fairly decent spec. It will be for general use and also video editing.

Ideally hed like to bring the price down a bit but doesnt want to compromise on reliability.

Motherboard, PSU and case are the parts Im least sure of.

The processor could also be downgraded to the E6300 but the E6400 is only about Ã,£25 more - Im not sure what the most cost effective option is.
Title: Re:Critique this spec
Post by: Ceathreamhnan on September 03, 2006, 20:34:32 PM
Id say you dont need the fancy Tagan for a general use pc - get one of the Antec cases with included Antec psu, like the Sonata one, has 450w psu, about Ã,£60 iirc. Its probably better made than the cheaper steel Coolermasters - you have to pay a lot more for the really nice all alloy ones.

Try and have a look at the visual quality of your cheap 19" TFT before buying - in my experience the bottom dollar TFTs can be quite nasty.
Title: Critique this spec
Post by: Tongy on September 03, 2006, 20:41:32 PM
If he wants to do video editing and have it last a while, perhaps a faster VGA card and more ram might be a good idea but tha tis not bad, not bad at all.

Cheers
Tongy
Title: Re:Critique this spec
Post by: Serious on September 03, 2006, 23:40:27 PM
I would definitely push the ram to 2GB as that would be more suitable for Vista if you buy that at any time in the future.
Title: Critique this spec
Post by: redneck on September 03, 2006, 23:49:06 PM
* vista, youll need the ram for video editing.

premiere is a hog.
Title: Re:Critique this spec
Post by: Rob on September 04, 2006, 00:14:31 AM
Quote from: CeathreamhnanId say you dont need the fancy Tagan for a general use pc - get one of the Antec cases with included Antec psu, like the Sonata one, has 450w psu, about Ã,£60 iirc. Its probably better made than the cheaper steel Coolermasters - you have to pay a lot more for the really nice all alloy ones.
What do you think to the NSK4400? Its a reasonable case - Ive used it for two other PCs. My only worry is the PSU. Ive heard that Antec PSUs are alright but I just hope its not a case of "you get what you pay for" :P

QuoteTry and have a look at the visual quality of your cheap 19" TFT before buying - in my experience the bottom dollar TFTs can be quite nasty.
Asked him about this and shown him my bargain basement TFT and he says its fine and hes not bothered.


Seems the consensus is more RAM. Okay, 2GB then.

RE: Tongys suggestion about a faster VGA card; any second opinions?


Cheers for all the help :)
Title: Re:Critique this spec
Post by: Ceathreamhnan on September 04, 2006, 00:25:48 AM
Well, I mention the Sonata one because Ive used one recently. An Antec psu is what Id choose if I didnt want to spend bigger bucks; even their cheaper ones appear to me to be respectably well made.
Your TFT might be alright - buy him one of the same then ;) If I had only Ã,£130 to spend Id get a well reviewed branded 17" TFT rather than a cheap 19" one.

I was under the impression that video editing required cpu cycles rather than 3D acceleration.
Title: Re:Critique this spec
Post by: Serious on September 04, 2006, 10:36:33 AM
Quote from: Rob
Quote from: CeathreamhnanId say you dont need the fancy Tagan for a general use pc - get one of the Antec cases with included Antec psu, like the Sonata one, has 450w psu, about Ã,£60 iirc. Its probably better made than the cheaper steel Coolermasters - you have to pay a lot more for the really nice all alloy ones.
What do you think to the NSK4400? Its a reasonable case - Ive used it for two other PCs. My only worry is the PSU. Ive heard that Antec PSUs are alright but I just hope its not a case of "you get what you pay for" :P

Mines been going since new on a cheapo Q-tec550 watt supply without any problems. Usually the cheap ones work just as well as the costly ones. /putsonflameproofsuit  /toucheswood
Title: Re:Critique this spec
Post by: Clock'd 0Ne on September 04, 2006, 16:53:54 PM
Its more luck of the draw, Serious, but Ive grown out of the stage of spending minimal amounts on such a critical component as the PSU. A bad PSU can take out more of a sting on your wallet if it goes mammaries up. A more expensive PSU will be both reliable and will improve system stability. Poor rails can cause all kinds of hidden problems.
Title: Re:Critique this spec
Post by: Rob on September 04, 2006, 17:52:17 PM
These are the readings from SiSoftware Sandra Lite on a PC using the NSK4400s Antec PSU and a DFI NF4 Infinity motherboard. The PC was idle at the time.

Voltage Sensor(s)
CPU Voltage : 1.38V
Aux Voltage : 1.52V
+3.3V Voltage : 3.20V
+5V Voltage : 4.92V
+12V Voltage : 11.42V
-12V Voltage : 0.06V
-5V Voltage : -0.83V
Standby Voltage : 4.95V
Battery Voltage : 3.04V

Full spec:
Antec NSK4400
DFI NF4 Infinity (Skt 939)
Athlon 64 3500+
2x512MB PC3200 RAM
Club3D 7300GT 256MB PCI-E
Seagate 320GB SATAII HDD
DVDROM, floppy

How good/bad are these? Are they likely to cause any problems?
Title: Re:Critique this spec
Post by: Serious on September 04, 2006, 19:02:57 PM
positive voltages are okay, nothing to write home about tho. Negative ones are totally way off but I dont know anything much that uses them.

mine pretty bog standard AMD 2500+ Barton system

CPU +1.60
aux +2.59
+3.3 +3.33
+5  +5
+12 +11.92
-12 -11.79
-5 -5
standby +4.97
batt +3.54

Quote from: Clockd 0NeIts more luck of the draw, Serious, but Ive grown out of the stage of spending minimal amounts on such a critical component as the PSU. A bad PSU can take out more of a sting on your wallet if it goes mammaries up. A more expensive PSU will be both reliable and will improve system stability. Poor rails can cause all kinds of hidden problems.

Yeah, I know, my brothers took out virtually his whole system unit, but just because something is cheap doesnt mean it will be unreliable, I am aware some of them have been but expensive ones can go too. providing its reliable then there is no problem, what is the problem is finding out which are reliable and which arent, you cant always depend on cost giving reliability as sometimes cheap ones are better than expensive. How do you know the firm which you just spent Ã,£90 on their psu didnt get it nocked up in a shed and paid Ã,£5 for it?

I wouldnt have bought it for a mission critical computer though, I would have paid the price for that ;)
Title: Critique this spec
Post by: Norphy on September 04, 2006, 21:26:36 PM
I think Hexus put it rather well when they called a QTec PSU a "joke power supply"
Title: Re:Critique this spec
Post by: Clock'd 0Ne on September 04, 2006, 22:13:33 PM
Quote from: Seriousyou cant always depend on cost giving reliability as sometimes cheap ones are better than expensive. How do you know the firm which you just spent Ã,£90 on their psu didnt get it nocked up in a shed and paid Ã,£5 for it?

True, but as with anything, price is a good guidance to go from if you arnt taking the time to research properly.
Title: Re:Critique this spec
Post by: Serious on September 04, 2006, 22:43:53 PM
Quote from: NorphyI think Hexus put it rather well when they called a QTec PSU a "joke power supply"

Others have described them as totally adequate, which site do you believe? Hexus gets at a 650 watt psu cause it blows at 1,100 watts, what the hell did they expect?

Quote from: Clockd 0Ne
Quote from: Seriousyou cant always depend on cost giving reliability as sometimes cheap ones are better than expensive. How do you know the firm which you just spent Ã,£90 on their psu didnt get it nocked up in a shed and paid Ã,£5 for it?

True, but as with anything, price is a good guidance to go from if you arnt taking the time to research properly.

I was lucky, worst voltage on mine is <2% out while the negative voltage on Robs Antec is totally screwed.
Title: Re:Critique this spec
Post by: dawlton on September 04, 2006, 23:27:42 PM
sorry to hijack, but how can you tell when you need a new psu or when your current one is struggling??

is there any way to work out how much power your computer is running at?
Title: Re:Critique this spec
Post by: Rob on September 04, 2006, 23:41:50 PM
Right, thanks for the help people. Unless you have any last minute additions, this is what Ive decided on:

Coolermaster Centurion 5 - Silver/Black - No PSU    -    Ã,£39.95
Asus P5B i965P PCI-E (Socket 775) DDR2 Motherboard    -    Ã,£101.66
Intel Core 2 DUO E6400 2.13GHz Conroe 2Mb Cache LGA775 (1066 Mhz) - Retail    -    Ã,£162.15
Corsair Twin2X 2GB DDR2 (2x1024MB) XMS2 5400C4    -    Ã,£145.94
Club 3D nVidia GeForce 7300GT 256MB DDR2 DVI/TV Out (PCI-E) - Retail    -    Ã,£56.40
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 SATAII NCQ 3Gb/s 320GB 16MB Cache OEM    -    Ã,£70.97
Pioneer DVR-111D 16x DVD Ã,±R/Ã,±RW/RAM Dual Layer Black - OEM    -    Ã,£24.09
3.5 inch Floppy Drive - Black    -    Ã,£4.95
19 TFT Monitor - Silver/Black 8ms w/ DVI (3 Years Onsite Warranty)    -    Ã,£124.95
Logitech Cordless Internet Pro Desktop Black - OEM    -    Ã,£24.68
      
   Tekheads P&P   Ã,£15.53
   Tekheads Total   Ã,£771.27
      
380W Enermax Coolergiant AX Series EG385AX-VHB(G)(SFMA) ATX PSU, 12V Version 1.3, aPFC   - Ã,£22.20
   
Scan P&P   Ã,£7.03
   Scan Total   Ã,£29.23

   
Total   Ã,£800.50


Unfortunately the cost of the 1GB RAM which was originally Ã,£67.43 skyrocketed to Ã,£106.75 literally overnight. Still, it made the decision to go with 2GB, which *only* jumped up from ~Ã,£125 to Ã,£146, a bit easier.

I decided to compromise on the PSU and go with a Ã,£30 Enermax rather than the Ã,£60 Tagan. My one experience of an Enermax PSU has been very positive and they seem to have good reviews so Im happy with that.
Title: Re:Critique this spec
Post by: Clock'd 0Ne on September 04, 2006, 23:46:11 PM
Enermax make great PSUs, you should have no trouble with that.
Title: Re:Critique this spec
Post by: Serious on September 04, 2006, 23:56:37 PM
Quote from: dawltonsorry to hijack, but how can you tell when you need a new psu or when your current one is struggling??

is there any way to work out how much power your computer is running at?

Its a bit complicated, to do it properly you need to take each output in turn and calculate how much of that voltage your compy needs from the specifications. doing it with just the overall wattage isnt enough as you might have a 650 watt PSU which has a 30 watt +12 volt supply when your compy is drawing 300 watts but 40 of those are at +12 volts. In that case even though it would look like the supply has enough juice it hasnt.

Even doing it all is just a rule of thumb, the components probably wont need the peak power at the same time and its always best to have some headroom too.
Title: Re:Critique this spec
Post by: Rob on September 05, 2006, 00:00:21 AM
Quote from: dawltonsorry to hijack, but how can you tell when you need a new psu or when your current one is struggling??

is there any way to work out how much power your computer is running at?
Found this guide about choosing a power supply earlier by accident that describes what Serious just said in more detail. It was published December 2002 so its a bit outdated but the method still applies.
Title: Re:Critique this spec
Post by: dawlton on September 05, 2006, 22:12:58 PM
thanks for the info guys, its helped clear up afew things that i didnt know about psu load.

cheers.
Title: Re:Critique this spec
Post by: Pooface on September 15, 2006, 09:56:23 AM
First rule of Video editing = 2x hard drives.