Tekforums

On the web all today since Wall mart went blu ray and others this week going blu ray rumour is that in the next few weeks you could here Toshiba call it quits on the format which will mean its death

360 folk - expect a blu ray player to be got, lol

Shame, I liked the features and the region free ability of the format :( Oh and the cheapness of it

Toshiba will not announce the death of a format - if they do announce then theyd almost certainly just say theyre out of the commercial film market.  HD DVD will probably switch to a storage format if anything as its most likely leading to a 3x DVD format with the same transfer rate anyway on normal DVDs.

Where are you pulling this BluRay player for an XBox from.  All they seem to have said is the machine is capable of it - obviously, sos every PC from the last 4 years.  And they could do it.  Obviously - so can every PC from the last 4 years.  Eventually it will most likely come but they cant just pluck the system out of the air at a sensible price point.  Until I see their name in the BluRay developers group (which it isnt) or them saying theyre ramping up production of the drives (4-6 month lead time after they even start?) then its pure speculation.  Seriously, you cant just wish something was true and itll be on the market within a month or two.

For one thing - Sony is the controlling member of the format right now and they could simply not allow a license to Microsoft and then no player anytime soon.

Microsoft could well have a HD-DVD specific agreement running for a term up to years, in which case no player anytime soon.

They may not be able to source 3rd party drives at a sensible (sub $100) price point as they wont have a hardware decoder for it and need it in the drive.  In which case no player anytime soon.

etc etc.


edit: Its also possible that Sony and co never allow Microsoft a license and threaten legal action of patent infringement if they even have a third party try and make them a player.  While theyd never stick that out for any amount of time Microsoft could be charged an uncompetitive royalty payment or be blocked for months to boost PS3 and stand alone players.

I really wouldnt suprised if theres no BluRay player on XBox this year at least.

- Sony can not, not allow the licence as if it becomes the standard or main source of movie/media format for HD players and such will come to pc and so will the software under windows and others so they will have - insert lots of rights and legal stuff here I cant be bothered to get but knows exist in this regard -

- The player will primary be software ran as with the 360 one and be very similar to how the blu ray functions in the ps3

- You do not have to be on the developer list to produce a drive or media format and if it is the standard sign up can not be limited

- Is it not the case that the ps3 is the best player due to the software function of blu ray playback allowing it to be updated? and since that is the main aspect of the hd-dvd for the 360 it basically would be the same thing
- A certain chip company has a chip in the 360 and will produce graphics cards that have hardware decoders for blu ray for media devices and pc and so they have the chip made, they have a deal with MS and in the 360, whack chips in player and away you go....

May not be this year if hd-dvd tries to carry on but wont take 5 minutes to create if need be

I still bet you anything there will be a blu ray player of hd movies (and nothing else since that the licence sony cant not give out if it is the media format chosen) this year or next year
Besides movie industry will push it anyway and many of them use live as a source of hd and non hd tv and movie downloads as well... Basically any way you look at it if it is the hd movie format and hd-dvd pulls out and MS want a player for 360 they will get it.

http://kotaku.com/342485/microsoft-will-consider-going-blu+ray-if-consumers-demand
If consumers want it they cant see why not, if Group marketing manager Albert Penello says its up to the consumer and they would consider it there will not be anything to stop them due to some/all reasons above - They have shares, hands, relationships with movie companies and more

Hollywood Reporter (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/film/news/e3ib77125d96b22e860b14b889b10defb59?pn=1)

Quote"An announcement is coming soon," said one source close to the HD DVD camp. "It could be a matter of weeks."

Microsoft is the other big player in the HD DVD equation. Last fall when Paramount Home Entertainment announced it was dropping its dual-format strategy and would release titles only in HD DVD, giving that side a brief resurgence, a pitch to journalists for interviews came from a Microsoft email address.

Several phone calls to Kevin Collins, Microsofts normally accessible "HD DVD evangelist," were not returned. Nor were calls to Ken Graffeo, the Universal Studios Home Entertainment executive who doubles as co-president of the HD DVD North American Promotional Group.

Quote from: neXus- Sony can not, not allow the licence as if it becomes the standard or main source of movie/media format for HD players and such will come to pc and so will the software under windows and others so they will have - insert lots of rights and legal stuff here I cant be bothered to get but knows exist in this regard -

Since when?  The Bluray group own the patents on the technology they can deny it to whoever they please.  What are you basing this statement or assumption on?  Patents are defensible for many years unless someones changed the rules while Ive not been looking.  Many of the standards in the world are under patent...  All other people can do is license the technology and the owner has 100% right to allow or deny people using it.  Bluray is a closed standard and therefore closed to any company/individual/country they choose.

Quote- The player will primary be software ran as with the 360 one and be very similar to how the blu ray functions in the ps3

Sorry, this is the non existant player you mean?  I may be wrong but Im under the impression that the PS3 has hardware assisted decoding of the data streams.  The processor in the XBox is more than capable of doing it but if they cant license the method for decoding the stream (again up to Sony and co) then theyre not allowed to decode it.  They would not only be in breach of copyright but theyd also be circumventing encryption which is not only totally illegal but would open the floodgates to people pirating and unlocking all of Microsofts software copy protection.

Quote- You do not have to be on the developer list to produce a drive or media format and if it is the standard sign up can not be limited

Really?  Are you sure?  Can you tell this to the people in my office because its costing us thousands of pounds a year to get the specs.  Bluray is a limited media format - again, you cant just wish this not to be the case and people forget the R&D and the patents they hold because some film companies have agreed to use it.  Thats not how this industry works, never has been and never will be.  Just to see the current standardrequires membership of this group.  Without it you cannot see the format of a dluray disc to build a technology based on it.  Other companies could build the chips and sell them to Microsoft but they themselves could have their development licenses pulled.

Quote- Is it not the case that the ps3 is the best player due to the software function of blu ray playback allowing it to be updated? and since that is the main aspect of the hd-dvd for the 360 it basically would be the same thing

The PS3 is not the best player.  There are many hardware decoders with far superior processing, deinterlacing, frame rate conversion, dejagging, cadence detection, decombing, noise reduction, etc etc.  They achieve this by decoding software through hardware instead of a general processor.  The PS3 cores are closer to a DSP therefore pretty good at doing most of these functions but not as good as a dedicated piece of silicon.  Many of these players are updatable through discs, USB, network as well  but theyre not cheap.  The XBoxs processor is not the same as the cell and not as suited to decoding H264 streams etc so many of these functions would never go live.  So even if/when the XBox gets a BR drive it wont be as good at handling the streams as the PS3 is.

Quote- A certain chip company has a chip in the 360 and will produce graphics cards that have hardware decoders for blu ray for media devices and pc and so they have the chip made, they have a deal with MS and in the 360, whack chips in player and away you go....

lol @ certain chip company.  Which company with a BR decoding core is selling Microsoft a dedicated decoding core?  I can think of 4 main players in this market who arent.  And theres not that many companies on this planet who have a reasonable quality general purpose BR decoding core yet.  You cant just put a graphics card core in a dvd drive and have it work.  Youd then have a $500 drive.  What you need is the IP for the BR decoding core and then integrate it into a processor/DSP, create a dedicated, efficient, low overhead processor using that core.  Now a company whos already using a known core with a known architecture and memory subsystem could probably churn a design out in about a month.  Then theyd have to test it and do the silicon layout (2 months?)  Then ramp up production of the new masks (1 month?)  Then produce enough volume of the chips, package and ship them plus find the drives, enclosures, etc. (3 months?).  Its not as simple as you seem to think.  This is all based on the fact the chip manufacturer is allowed to use that core in this way.

QuoteMay not be this year if hd-dvd tries to carry on but wont take 5 minutes to create if need be

As someone who orks alongside people who do this stuff day in day out.  All I can say is this is not a 5 minute job.  The legal side of patents is immense.  The controlling group of BR are not playing nice, espeically with their main competitors.  The lead time of hardware from idea to product is months even if theres no legal stuff, all the chips and drives exist and the death of HDDVD was sprung on everyone.  Add in a patented tech like BR is and those months can go into a year easily.  If itd been BR which died the HD-DVD was open and could have had drives built in months, but this way round its not as simple.

QuoteI still bet you anything there will be a blu ray player of hd movies (and nothing else since that the licence sony cant not give out if it is the media format chosen) this year or next year

So youre willing to bet that within 2 years someone puts a drive on the XBox?  Well no I wont take that bet.  But in 2 years time the XBox will be near obsolete anyway and well be on next gen so its a fairly safe bet.  My point was youre talking like the XBox will have one in the next few months which is simply wishful thinking.  It may happen but theres no evidence it will and a lot saying it wont.  If Microsoft dont have a BR solution in the next 12 months then the whole things irrelevant as the set top players will be sib $100 anyway and Microsoft totally missed the boat.  They have a ~6 month window to do it before its pointless.  I dont think theyll make it so the XBox will be a games console and not a video player.


To avoid a huge quoting spam and reply thing youre so fond of Ill limit it to one question you can quote and reply to if you wish.  All of the above points come down to this ?misunderstanding? on your part.

What makes you think that Sony have to let Microsoft build a player just because some companies are standardizing on it?

IF Blu Ray comes the format, it will be as an external player on 360, nuf said :rofl:   :ptu:  :w00t:

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665305102

QuoteBlu-ray Disc or DVD Video movies. Works with Windows® Vista™ or Windows XP.

Wonder who owns xp and vista

Oh and the fact a Microsoft owned codec is in there:
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1641558,00.asp

Simply put there will no Sony stopping MS doing it, they cant, they wont, Blu ray wins - player on 360

I see you didnt even try and answer the last question.  Its simple enough isnt it?


Youre way out of your depth here and its being driven by your love of XBox360.  Youre almost becoming the Batch of the 360 on here.
* Bluray is the format.
* Microsoft dont have a player.
* Their main competitor has total control of who can license the cores to decode it and can punish any company who tries to sell them one.  For example stop letting them having the Bluray specs which means they cant update their players and they become useless.


You can just keep posting on all your forums saying XBox will get a player as a fact if you like but noone knows.  Im not being rude but Ill hear about it a damn sight sooner than you will when they do start trying to get a BR drive going.  Until that point you really need to stop just making things up on this topic.  Its how all these nonsense rumours of will MS/Apple/IBM announce XXX next month etc begin.  Stating it like its fact with no evidence whatsoever is just misleading and people start believing its true.

Quote from: neXusIF Blu Ray comes the format, it will be as an external player on 360, nuf said :rofl:   :ptu:  :w00t:

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665305102

QuoteBlu-ray Disc or DVD Video movies. Works with Windows® Vista™ or Windows XP.

Wonder who owns xp and vista

Oh and the fact a Microsoft owned codec is in there:
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1641558,00.asp

Simply put there will no Sony stopping MS doing it, they cant, they wont, Blu ray wins - player on 360

You do know a codec isnt the same as a hardware deocding core right?

This is because you cant patent software but you can patent hardware and IP cores.

Quote from: SteveF

Quote from: neXusIF Blu Ray comes the format, it will be as an external player on 360, nuf said :rofl:   :ptu:  :w00t:

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665305102

QuoteBlu-ray Disc or DVD Video movies. Works with Windows® Vista™ or Windows XP.

Wonder who owns xp and vista

Oh and the fact a Microsoft owned codec is in there:
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1641558,00.asp

Simply put there will no Sony stopping MS doing it, they cant, they wont, Blu ray wins - player on 360

You do know a codec isnt the same as a hardware deocding core right?

This is because you cant patent software but you can patent hardware and IP cores.

Yes, point is Sony and MS are not god and the devil and have many ties and associates and some directly associated with the blu ray player as well as film, media and software and it is NOT just Sony and MS in regard to a media format primary for FILM and as such like video tape and Sony making players for it as well as other things mentioned and the stakes and key roles the movie companies are and will play = Blu Ray player on 360 if MS choose to do it, If not create support let 3rd party folk do it - same result, player for 360.
GOING to happen if MS decide to  :ptu:  :ptu:

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/02/15/toshiba-surrender-blu-ray
This will be official in Days rather then weeks now it is leaking all over the web, that will be one down on the tick list for me, Role on MS announcement at some point then the player :P

The only real player shifting for blu ray is the PS3, sell the chips end up in a box on the 360, medium is sold, cash goes to Sony in part for every player and disc sold, Blu Ray player on 360 would sell a lot - lots of 360s out there hdmi as standard on new models....
All good, going to happen  :bounce:  :bounce:

Quote from: neXusYes, point is Sony and MS are not god and the devil and have many ties and associates and some directly associated with the blu ray player as well as film, media and software and it is NOT just Sony and MS in regard to a media format primary for FILM and as such like video tape and Sony making players for it as well as other things mentioned and the stakes and key roles the movie companies are and will play = Blu Ray player on 360 if MS choose to do it, If not create support let 3rd party folk do it - same result, player for 360.
GOING to happen if MS decide to  :ptu:  :ptu:

Sorry Im struggling to read that very long rambling sentance so sorry if I miss something...

Yup, MS and Sony arent god and the devil - correct but not sure I see the relevance or the meaning of this.

They do have many ties.  As do every electronics company in the world.  The whole things driven by patents, legal cases and prior art.

It is indeed not only MS and Sony involved in making films - I dont believe I ever said it was.  Or in fact anyone in the worlds ever made that claim.

Quoteas such like video tape and Sony making players for it as well as other things mentioned and the stakes and key roles the movie companies are and will play

Sorry I tried hard to understand that bit but I seriously have no clue what youre saying.

Microsoft cant just choose to do something.  If theres a patent out there which has total rights to it Microsoft have to buy the right to do so.  This right can be refused by the patent holder.  This bit you dont seem to grasp.

Let 3rd party folk do it?  I dont doubt a 3rd party BR drive will be able to be hooked up to the console at some point.  Unfortunately Microsoft have to allow this to be done since they sign all their software on the 360.  So if someone plugs a drive into the XBox, Microsoft has to enable that drive which is why it becomes tricky.  The codec can be put on the XBox no problem but they have to allow the drive to work and then you could just about argue that theyre bypassing copy protection as theyd be decoding on the XBox.  If they decode the stream in the drive and then send a decrypted stream into the XBox for playback then the maker of the player is breaking the terms of their BR license by breaking BRs copy protection and sending it unencrypted.  So then the drive maker will get nailed.  This isnt difficult to get around technically but its a mine field legally.


FYI, a hell of a lot of people stop Microsoft doing things all the time through patents.  In fact.  Probably every tech company in the world has stopped Microsoft doing things like this several times through patent law.  It sounds like its you believing Microsoft is god.  There isnt free reign to do as you please in this industry.  The whole system is protected by patents to stop rich companies being able to simply steamroller the smaller innovators.  In this case the innovators too big to be bought out by Microsoft so they have to play ball.


BTW, I actually believe Sony and co will give AMD/NVidia/etc a full license to supply Microsoft with cores and this will be a non issue.  But the choice isnt Microsofts - its Sonys.  The difference being is I dont assume itll happen until they grant the licenses.  You just blindly state things.  I let it slide the first 2-3 threads you stated it but thought Id stop you this time.  Not that I dont think youll just continue believing its a done deal and say it like its all going to happen anyway but it was worth a try.

YAY

G O I N G  T O  H A P P EN
Who ever said MS will just go do it to hell with anyone else? Difference between me saying they will do it to you saying they cant
I also said that to get around Sony with the player ms to allow people to do it, loving your flustering  :rofl:

They are already in discussion between each other to sort it all out by the way, did not mention that, they close to doing a deal probably soon (good source, not going to say what, do not care if you moan, lol )

You think it wont it will :)


 :rock:  :rock:

LOL well I guess Ill have to admit Im wrong. How could I argue with a good source you cant name? Guess Ill have to to get flustered with our working multi standard HD decoding core and stress about another potential buyer.

Give it a few days and a week and I may bother to explain the posting m8, lol
It will happen though and just to add - I know what you are saying, your wrong and I can prove it, just not going to :)

Edit: its worth more than my job to say that so remove

Lets just hope youre right :-)

Quote from: SteveFEdit: its worth more than my job to say that so remove

Lets just hope youre right :-)

You may have just twigged what I was doing, lol

Liam, my PS3 pwnes your Xbox 360.  I got Blu Ray, you dont.... nah nah!!!

 :mutley:

My 360 plays really good worthwhile games - your PS3 DOESNT lol!!  :o (btw Im just cracking a joke before ANOTHER ps3 vs 360 argument commences!)


On a serious note though - does anyone else just really not care about which console plays the best movies? I bought the damn thing for GAMES!! Or is that just me?

I have to admit it isnt looking good with the fact that Toshiba are keeping quiet. However, Im still gonna buy all the movies I want on HD-DVD as there seem to be lots of sales on them at the moment and quite a few like the Ultimate Terminator 2 package coming out soon, and the Uni and Paramount movies will probably take a while to come out on blu-ray. I cant see myself buying a blu-ray player anytime soon, if at all, as they still need to get the specs sorted, players created and out at a decent price, and no I dont want a PS3.

Over Christmas blue-ray massively outsold HD-DVD disks. Things look to be heavily in favour of Sony in this although plenty of pundits are saying not to count HD-DVD out yet...

QuoteToshiba Corporation has decided to withdraw from next generation high-definition DVD production.

The company said it will continue to sell HD-DVD products for a while but will stop further development of HD DVD. Meanwhile, it said its DVD factories in Aomori Prefecture, northern Japan, would be closed.

Market observers said that Toshiba could suffer a loss of hundreds of millions of US dollars.

http://www.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/

Quote from: SteveFLOL well I guess Ill have to admit Im wrong. How could I argue with a good source you cant name? Guess Ill have to to get flustered with our working multi standard HD decoding core and stress about another potential buyer.

...and this is why I have given up arguing with him when I know "for a fact" he is wrong.   For I get annoyed with for posting absolute bollocks all the time Im accused of specifically picking on him.

Just Ignore it, I know its difficult.

Im prepared to bet that any disc format becomes a damp squib.

There is no place for discs any more - theyre old hat. Thats my opinion, and Im sticking to it!

5 years they will be rare, 10 years they will be on computingmuseum.com

I dont know ANYONE that has a next gen standalone player, apart from one guy who is a fanatic about collecting such stuff.

Quote from: MarkIm prepared to bet that any disc format becomes a damp squib.

There is no place for discs any more - theyre old hat. Thats my opinion, and Im sticking to it!

5 years they will be rare, 10 years they will be on computingmuseum.com

I dont know ANYONE that has a next gen standalone player, apart from one guy who is a fanatic about collecting such stuff.

 :stupid:

DVD/HDDVDVD/Blu-Ray are all kinda crap.

I look forward to expanding my HD-DVD with the firesales that are sure to happen in the near future.  :D  Dont have to worry about regions.
I think studios will start to use region encoding much more from now on.  I believe that was one of the studios main reason for moving to Bluray.
I tend to rent blurays more just because the PS3 is so much quieter than the 360.  You cant hear it over the movie soundtrack.

Quote from: Cypher

Quote from: SteveFLOL well I guess Ill have to admit Im wrong. How could I argue with a good source you cant name? Guess Ill have to to get flustered with our working multi standard HD decoding core and stress about another potential buyer.

...and this is why I have given up arguing with him when I know "for a fact" he is wrong.   For I get annoyed with for posting absolute bollocks all the time Im accused of specifically picking on him.

Just Ignore it, I know its difficult.

Funny, last time I posted anything like that I was right, and the time before that and the people who should have ate their hat never bothered replying in the threads then tried to ignore it
I am right on this Part 1 - 100% correct, its been announced MS stuff will announce in the next week or so about what they are doing and that they done a deal with the blu ray group OR join it and then you will here about the 360 player.

Sorry but I am right here and please feel free to eat many hats in the coming months

The good thing for us who have he 360 hd-dvd player is that we can get the blu ray paying out groaning but before then we will be able to pick up really really cheap hd movies like
Deaths Head says

Until you post hard facts to back up your claims I will take what you say as rumour.

Quote from: Deaths HeadUntil you post hard facts to back up your claims I will take what you say as rumour.

Fair enough to hold out and say that but to say "your wrong" is a very dodgy thing to do and cypher made a statement about me being wrong before which is a lie
Was telling some tek folk as stevef was posting in this thread, I very delebritly kept dumming it down, very easy to go in a phd detail about the movie industry medium fair usage rights in terms of the dvd, video and what it means for a single hd medium and what you can and cant do in terms of competition and the associations with the movie industry and deals between companies ignoring the fact machines are consoles and the groups etc.
Stevef is a stupidly smart scientist who tends to over analyse stuff on the forums and goes into full phd mass essay mode sometimes focusing on hardware things a little to much, Interesting a bit but he does go on a bit to much detail for some threads :) So on purpose was not going to into it becuase I do happen to know a few people about town so when official hits links posted but I cant, but know its happening
(echoed by others pms at the time)

Micorosoft statement on the news

"We do not believe the recent reports about HD DVD will have any material impact on the Xbox 360 platform or our position in the marketplace. As weve long stated, we believe it is games that sell consoles and Xbox 360 continues to have the largest next-gen games library with the most exclusives and best selling games in the industry."

"We will wait until we hear from Toshiba before announcing any specific plans"
No link as it was in my email box but I am sure on web sites have quoted this and it is what they have said

So they are being coy and its not a no yet on blu ray and as most know it normally means they are in talks and sorting it behind the scenes and when the deals are done links severed and tied and dots ticked they will announce stuff

MS will join the blu ray group will be the next announcement after the 100% official Toshiba announcement they are dropping hd-dvd as marketing and making but support it for xx long etc
All the questions to MS will then be asked about a player for the 360 and pester them, they will then announce an external one and then probably for one of the newer versions of the 360 at the end of the year or next then announce it will be inside the machine as a player only.
The next gen machines though will be the key pointing task
Sony cant stop MS and wont Stop ms in terms of movie and media use despite what SteveF thinks :P BUT there is a case when it comes to gaming, Blu Ray has more space and that and a hardrive is a good thing for games but the question then holds that what will MS do or be allowed to do.
I could see a few options

- Toshiba will pull out but MS by rights and what not to the HD-DVD format and for the next gen machine create a machine with a player that plays both blu-ray and hd-dvd (which already exist) and produce their games on the hd-dvd format and would allow backwards comptability with dvd and dvd games as well as hd-dvd movies.

- Use dvd still and have a blu ray player
I think if either they cant use a blu ray player for games due to Sony then the simple solution would to stick to dvd but I think even now dvd is pushing it in terms of use and they should not choose this in the next gen machine, it would be the wrong one

- Throw a lot of money and offers around and be able to use the blu ray format for the games as well as the media, Possible but as said a lot of cash would be thrown about but considering Sony doing better but still crap as a company and who could do with some money especially after the ps3 and blu ray money pits to first deal with their cock up on the ps3 and then the push for both so if MS who has a bottomless pit of cash throws money at Sony and the blu ray group as well as already being part of the group after the deals being talked over as we speak I think they could be allowed
Despite what SteveF says (sorry again m8ery, lol - hugs  :cheers:  ) It would be good and in the best interest for Sony to do this and in terms of the gaming industry each side does not hate each other as many would assume and both strive to take gaming to the next level and help the people who matter - the game developers and I think the game developers would also have something to say

I think option one is the most likley but option 3 probably the better and possible

SteveF:
Sorry m8 about all the thread as your a clever guy and scientist but you do take it to the other level when its not needed and I am not as smart as you I admit and in the area of your stuff you know your sh*t But you do go over the top when its not needed and I was deliberately being dumb while sticking on the topic matter at hand to a degree
I still avoided all the tech and hardware side you were trying to get into but as I tried to show that is not the point of the matter or the issue it is the industry and gaming and thanks to the people I know and leach information off as I like to learn and know everything I know a bit of what things go on and mean if not the very detailed leagal bits etc

Things are panning out as I said and think they are already And I hope this post is a bit more detailed for you and does show what I said is possible (and will happen) and everything is shaping up to run this way
With the other thread of cool info about the different versions of the 360 an internal player was to be hd-dvd hence MS being Coy at the moment as it means to change plans and peruse the backup plans other teams were doing (talking to the blu ray group which MS being MS will have started when the first signs were there)
MS will have had the idea with the HD-DVD group to put the player in the machine to help bolster things but MS would have looked at the other option of course BUT would hope HD-DVD would win and this was their aim to help bolster that and 360 sales But HD-DVD has fallen over faster then anyone really expected and very early in terms of consumer impact was ever really made

See Nexus Can post actual well thought out posts :)

Oh to add, On the desicion by Toshiba while it is not 101% official still yet the BBC has done a report:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7250068.stm
And they do not normally do things until they are 101% certain often leading them to be a bit slower on the news then everyone else but even if they stick their neck out it is safe to say its going to happen

Breaking news from me:

Disc formats are a waste of f**king time and effort

Quote from: neXusSee Nexus Can post actual well thought out posts :)

Not really; youre still struggling to string a sentence together.

(This isnt meant as an insult but why dont you try reading your posts out loud)

Quote from: neXus

Quote from: Deaths HeadUntil you post hard facts to back up your claims I will take what you say as rumour.

Fair enough to hold out and say that but to say "your wrong" is a very dodgy thing to do and cypher made a statement about me being wrong before which is a lie
Was telling some tek folk as stevef was posting in this thread, I very delebritly kept dumming it down, very easy to go in a phd detail about the movie industry medium fair usage rights in terms of the dvd, video and what it means for a single hd medium and what you can and cant do in terms of competition and the associations with the movie industry and deals between companies ignoring the fact machines are consoles and the groups etc.
Stevef is a stupidly smart scientist who tends to over analyse stuff on the forums and goes into full phd mass essay mode sometimes focusing on hardware things a little to much, Interesting a bit but he does go on a bit to much detail for some threads :) So on purpose was not going to into it becuase I do happen to know a few people about town so when official hits links posted but I cant, but know its happening
(echoed by others pms at the time)

Actually the reason I was posting wasnt as a scientist its that I now work in the video processing technologies division of a company who supply both Sony and Microsoft and are in direct competition with AMD and NVidia for this market.  Specifically in Bluray decoders for hardware I have the full specs and meetings with these companies on a regular basis.  We also have continuous patent wars so you know what projects your competitors are working on.  Its entirely possible this is all going on above my level (which wouldnt be too difficult) but you do tend to hear things of this scale.

The impression I get is MS and the HDDVD consortium totally didnt see this coming and Sony have no rush to throw Microsoft a player.

Im glad you dummed (sic) it down for me but I do do this stuff 7-8 hours a day.  You make websites in New Zealand and get your sources from kids on MSN.  But well wait and see.


Now, Microsoft will almost certainly be trying to get a BluRay player together.  Thats fairly obvious.  What will eventually happen is Microsoft will pay enough to persuade Sony or some random news site will post a link a month or two from now saying theyre trying to forge a deal.  Youll then post here saying hahahahaha Im right!!!11111 Youre all wrong, etc etc.  Now what I was saying is right now (i.e. this moment) Microsoft have no license, have no partner in hardware, have no permission from Sonys marketing section and have non of the Sony engineers working with them.  Thats them not having a bluray player and you talking rumours.

If they get the license 3 months from now that doesnt mean youre correct it means they persuaded sony.  Until that point its speculation and rumours.  Thats the difference you dont seem to get.


Tell you what.  Im going to say its the year 2009.

You can now argue Im wrong.  But in 10 months you bet Im coming back here, quoting the line above me and saying youre all wrong and feeling hard done to youre not eating your words.  Now everyone will know you were right when you posted that it wasnt 2009.  But because Im about 99% sure itll eventually be 2009 Im fairlly safe in making that claim.  Thats what youre doing here but Cyphers right Ill just leave it.  Its a waste of time.

Quote from: SteveFIm glad you dummed (sic) it down for me but I do do this stuff 7-8 hours a day.  You make websites in New Zealand and get your sources from kids on MSN.  But well wait and see.

Nice needless pop there, bit uncalled for and I hope its all taken back with flowers when It goes down how I said it would
Rather immature that line

You are a website maker who lives in New Zealand and gets your info from websites and MSN.

Or am I missing something?  Im being 1000% serious.  You dont have to reveal your source but did you by any chance hear it over MSN?  That at least you can confirm or deny.

It sounds rude but that is the truth as far as I understand it.  And I know you fairly well.

Quote from: SteveFYou are a website maker who lives in New Zealand and gets your info from websites and MSN.

Or am I missing something?  Im being 1000% serious.  You dont have to reveal your source but did you by any chance hear it over MSN?  That at least you can confirm or deny.

It sounds rude but that is the truth as far as I understand it.  And I know you fairly well.

Your a m8 steve, but you missed the "kids" bit which clearly is a dig, no point dodging that it was and I posted it was a bit childish and we move on but to say it wasnt is worse - it was, I think its was a little childish we move on

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=33247
100% official Toshiba fully back out and as stated if this option was taken it would mean they had full talks with the others involved and committed to the format and that have started or have already sorted what to do - ala blu ray.

And you do not know me that well at all really, from wow met up once good m8es but we do not really know each other that well so that is untrue m8
Source 100% on mothers grave has nothing to do with MSN and I cant fathum in any way where that would come from or its suggestion that it did and the added "kids" comment is there and I think if I not posted a reply also quoting it just before your post edit that word would have disappeared :)
And I wonder what you said in this one before you edited it as well  :rofl:

And your start of a  back track with your edit to your last post as well gives me a nice smile as well

I am going to take the stick on the chin, I backed the format that lost - crap but meh, fair play to blu ray but I know I am right and right so far how its panning out and I am sticking to it

Ive got nothing to do with the argument... just to say, he hasnt taken out the kids bit... its still there, and the edit time is before his last post, and theres only one edit, so he couldent take it out and put it back, guessing he just fixed a typo etc. which he spoted when he came back to post again  

I wouldent post... but I think editing stuff out like that is pretty low... and he didnt do it so shouldent be tard with that brush!

Quote from: knightyIve got nothing to do with the argument... just to say, he hasnt taken out the kids bit... its still there, and the edit time is before his last post, and theres only one edit, so he couldent take it out and put it back, guessing he just fixed a typo etc. which he spoted when he came back to post again  

I wouldent post... but I think editing stuff out like that is pretty low... and he didnt do it so shouldent be tard with that brush!

I know m8, thats why he re typed it but left out the kids bit but I did mention I think if I did not quote it that word would be gone :)
You got a bit messed up there m8, He edited the first post today with a bit more about blu ray a little back tracking if you will at the end of that post
then posted..

QuoteYou are a website maker who lives in New Zealand and gets your info from websites and MSN.

Or am I missing something? Im being 1000% serious. You dont have to reveal your source but did you by any chance hear it over MSN? That at least you can confirm or deny.

It sounds rude but that is the truth as far as I understand it. And I know you fairly well.

Where he left out the kids bit, and I mentioned the first time he said it would have been edited if it was not for the quote :)
Some folk would also take the New Zealand bit as a pop at indicating you are in the middle of now where and what would you know? but I am not

EDIT - Not offended he is a m8, but he is getting a little heated and having a few pops, fair doos but no point for cloak and dagger,  He has an ace job and fing smart But even then someone can be wrong and have someone else know something they may not realise they did or knew people who could know more as well
Despite what people say I tend to not stick my neck out on something unless I am sure - Wrong sometimes like anyone else but I am really positive the way things will happen is how it will happen and well it is so far

Im sure steve doesent need me here defending him... but personaly, Id have missed the kids bit out the second time too, fair enough it was a little bit harsh the first time, by missing it out the second time he stoped it being just plain "nasty" and turing into a slagging match

if you call someone a **** once its no big deal, do it again and it becomes a big deal.

Quote from: knightyIm sure steve doesent need me here defending him... but personaly, Id have missed the kids bit out the second time too, fair enough it was a little bit harsh the first time, by missing it out the second time he stoped it being just plain "nasty" and turing into a slagging match

if you call someone a **** once its no big deal, do it again and it becomes a big deal.

I agree m8, even said its basically water under the bridge but with the other comments made it was a pop fair enough but he did try and brush it aside as not one which for me is worse
All under the bridge though, He disagrees and thinks I do not know anything, fair enough end of the day do not really care but when pop shots at a person starts etc - then thats getting silly

I correct typos with edits - not change meaning.

My edit was before your post (check the times) and I never took the word out of it.

As someone who doesnt work in the industry and in a country which lets face it isnt swarming with technical developers in the semiconductor industry I find it strange that you had this conversation around the water cooler with someone in the know.

So just to be clear I did no editing of any kind to change message - youre talking BS on that front.

Youve still not said how you got this info.  I dont deny you have been told it I just question the validity of your source.

And finally.  Microsoft have just made a statement on the subject which basically saying they have a streaming media alternative for when the HD-DVD drive was announced.  i.e. they have no Bluray solution.  Any of this stuff sinking in yet?

Also my edit (before your reply) did not in any way back track.  It added some info about Bluray on the end of the post and corrected a typo.  Nothing else.

Everything else youre saying is just a lie and I find that far ruder than saying your source is most likely a kid on MSN.  Which I still believe to be the case.

Quote from: SteveFNow, Microsoft will almost certainly be trying to get a BluRay player together.  Thats fairly obvious.  What will eventually happen is Microsoft will pay enough to persuade Sony or some random news site will post a link a month or two from now saying theyre trying to forge a deal

...

If they get the license 3 months from now that doesnt mean youre correct it means they persuaded sony.  Until that point its speculation and rumours.  Thats the difference you dont seem to get.

There is also the issue of M$ previous buyers, they already have enough bad publicity from things like the ring of death issue, if they just pull a new player out of the box now those who bought the HD-DVD one are not going to be pleased. I expect they will wait a few months at least before bothering to announce anything, even if the deal was already done.

[edit]Then again what are they going to do with the stock they have now? Wouldnt it be better to get that out of the way first? [/edit]

Quote from: SeriousThere is also the issue of M$ previous buyers, they already have enough bad publicity from things like the ring of death issue, if they just pull a new player out of the box now those who bought the HD-DVD one are not going to be pleased. I expect they will wait a few months at least before bothering to announce anything, even if the deal was already done.

I can see them offering a rebate system to be fair.  MS dont care as much as Sony about losing a little money to get the market.  The XBox line is one of their prongs to get into your living room, office and pocket.  They arent looking at short-term gains, they want everyone to run their lives on MS hardware or software.  The idea of a Home Server, Windows machines as clients, with a Windows Mobile phone, and an XBox in your living room to stream content from the server while also operating as the hub to your Home Media experience isnt hard to see.  Would be more attractive to buyers if they can have their phone sync with their server, than syncs with every other media device they own.  In the next few years youll likely see MS Branded TVs, or with an MS Approval to be linked up by wireless to stream media from the server or XBox.  

MS said several months ago when paramount jumped ship that they will review blu-ray support as & when needed.

<3 this thread  8-)

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/02/19/xbox-360-blu

Strong rumour of 360 blu by may
Role on the official news in the coming weeks as well as the strong possibility of MS completely joining the blu ray group as a partner

So far all shaping up to be how I said and so hats for eating at the ready

sigh lol

Please stop PMing me Nexus - just leave things in this thread - I dont need whisper spam too :).  If they do it they do it but I trust the informer and Microsoft leaks staff as far as I can throw them.  Frankly theres a lot of 20 ssomethings at Microsoft who do databases and basic programming work with no contact with the XBox/video/research divisions.  The official statements from Microsoft make no mention of BluRay and in fact hint theyre looking at streaming their content using WMV9.

Dont get me wrong its just a USB interface so I have no doubt they have dozens of drives connected to the XBox 360 and capable of playing BR back.  All they have to do is buy an external USB drive and port a windows drive.  Its not technically difficult.  Hell, give me the SDK and a day and Ill have one working myself.  I just dont believe they have one lined up and itll be blocked/delayed by politics, legal and commercial constraints.  Actually doing it is trivial.

by the time any add on hits the market  for the 360, which I dont doubt one will,  the cheap blu-ray STBs will be out that use that new diode, once that happenes, who will want to fork out £100 when for say £120 they can have one that will work with any HD tv, sans xbox.

and add on drives for consoles never seem to work for a console,if the mega drive, super Nintendo, jaguar etc. are any thing to go by.

Thats exactly the point Alien8.  All Sony and co have to do is delay the BR drive on the XBox for a while and the whole point of having one becomes obsolete.  Thats exactly what I believe theyre going to do.

Heres a deal Ethen.  If theres a 360 BR player on the market by May 2008 then Ill stop posting long winded sciency replies to any posts and eat my hat as you seem to place so much credance on. On the other hand, if there isnt one then you can stop posting speculations about things and try harder to spell at least some of the words in your posts correctly.  Does that sound reasonable?

Quote from: SteveFThats exactly the point Alien8.  All Sony and co have to do is delay the BR drive on the XBox for a while and the whole point of having one becomes obsolete.  Thats exactly what I believe theyre going to do.

Heres a deal Ethen.  If theres a 360 BR player on the market by May 2008 then Ill stop posting long winded sciency replies to any posts and eat my hat as you seem to place so much credance on. On the other hand, if there isnt one then you can stop posting speculations about things and try harder to spell at least some of the words in your posts correctly.  Does that sound reasonable?

Im looking at things from a Business IT perspective as that is what most of my experience and training has involved.  Im not a fanboy either way, i dont have a 360 or PS3 because to be fair I wouldnt use them.

As I understand it one of the tenets that holds the BDA together is that an individual member _cant _ stop a company buying a licence to the technology.  In fact reading through the data it would suggest that you could get a manufacturing licence for the tech in under 2 months.  I would be surprised if Microsoft hadnt already got the paperwork and sent it off.  They will already have been working with it so that it works properly in Vista no doubt, though probably only on the software side after buying in drives from a 3rd party.  

I would agree though, the only stumbling block for them is the licence.  The tech will likely take them a few weeks or months to iron out, put a firmware flash into the 360 and you can have a blu-ray drive up and running with little effort in comparison to trying to retro fit the box (I personally would be very surprised if they dont already have a working protype or two in the 360 development labs).  MS have stated publicly multiple times that they will review Blu-Ray for the 360 if there is enough public demand.  They now know they can drop the HD-DVD add-on, so why not produce a Blu-Ray add on instead?  Its really little to do with licencing and more to do with economics.  Sony will be highly unlikely to block a direct application by MS for access to the full Blu-Ray licence, because if they did MS could do a variety of things, including lodging a complaint to the FTC under the US anti-competition laws (that would be highly ironic), or even poking Sonys licence to use WMA files on their Walkman products.  The most damaging thing for Sony I would think would be to remove their WMA licence (there is a clause in the licence that says MS can pull it at any time, for any reason).  While most of us use MP3/OGG  or similar formats, ive noticed that the great majority of home users rip their CDs using Windows media player.  Im sure theyll be happy that their shiny new walkman or ericsson phone wont play their music anymore, and they are more likely to swap their phone or MP3 player than their computer.

Quote from: SteveFThats exactly the point Alien8.  All Sony and co have to do is delay the BR drive on the XBox for a while and the whole point of having one becomes obsolete.  Thats exactly what I believe theyre going to do.

Heres a deal Ethen.  If theres a 360 BR player on the market by May 2008 then Ill stop posting long winded sciency replies to any posts and eat my hat as you seem to place so much credance on. On the other hand, if there isnt one then you can stop posting speculations about things and try harder to spell at least some of the words in your posts correctly.  Does that sound reasonable?

I do not care if you do steve (liam by the way not played wow for well over a year)
Do not post speculations unless stated as a rumour, do not think I have ever done so on the forums, been 3 times I stuck my neck out and be hammered to bits on the forums and ended up being right
The bit that got my beef was how you have been posting with a bit of a poor attitude that acts Like I am a low life and was a bit insulting after your attempts to be very long winded and to technical when in fact really in regards to the blu ray player it has nothing to do with that and in regard to the dealings of companies and The person I know you have a go at me for knowing yet really the people you know are actually on the other side in similar roles to what he does and so really you can say that your sources are at the same level and you believe them and I beleive mine. You choose though to have a pop at me etc just like your last pm.
Fair enough do not care if someone acting superior and being a bit of an arse only a forums but the pops pissed me off as they were uncalled for
And when it happens it will be interesting to see your opinion about it and what your told

Surely this kills everything http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_Versatile_Disc

so youre not taking the bet?  Quel suprise.  Well guess well know by May if they have something lined up already or are as I suspect simply trying to pull something together from a standing start.

And tbh you spend so much time stressing wether someone is having a go at you or if youre being bullied by every person who ever disagrees with you on a forum youd be better to just suck it up.  Its not live and die stuff.  In fact other than the fact you may or may not buy a device it has no impact on you in the slightest.  At least for me it changes my income and the meetings Ill be in for the next 3 months.

Before I begin...
I have a HD-DVD drive and about a dozen movies. I was a very early adopter and I anticipated both formats being around forever. I am quite surprised to see HD-DVD die but I am not that upset as that is what happens to your money when you buy early.
 
IMVHO the huge and sudden distributor switch to Bluray seems a little odd and makes me wonder what sort of behind-closed-door deals the BDA (Sony) pulled.
AFAIC Sony had (obviously) pinned their future on the PS3 and Blueray. As best I can tell the PS3 isnt selling as well as forecasted and this move to blueray secures Sonys future. Conspiracy ? Probably ;)

Quote from: SteveFso youre not taking the bet?  Quel suprise.  Well guess well know by May if they have something lined up already or are as I suspect simply trying to pull something together from a standing start.

And tbh you spend so much time stressing wether someone is having a go at you or if youre being bullied by every person who ever disagrees with you on a forum youd be better to just suck it up.  Its not live and die stuff.  In fact other than the fact you may or may not buy a device it has no impact on you in the slightest.  At least for me it changes my income and the meetings Ill be in for the next 3 months.

lol - Ill leave you to it then if youre not taking the bet or saying your source.  Seems pointless.

Quote from: FuMaNSurely this kills everything http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_Versatile_Disc

No, but this does.

QuoteTOKYO--Toshiba Corporation today announced that it has undertaken a thorough review of its overall strategy for HD DVD and has decided it will no longer develop, manufacture and market HD DVD players and recorders. This decision has been made following recent major changes in the market. Toshiba will continue, however, to provide full product support and after-sales service for all owners of Toshiba HD DVD products.

...

Toshiba will begin to reduce shipments of HD DVD players and recorders to retail channels, aiming for cessation of these businesses by the end of March 2008. Toshiba also plans to end volume production of HD DVD disk drives for such applications as PCs and games in the same timeframe, yet will continue to make efforts to meet customer requirements. The company will continue to assess the position of notebook PCs with integrated HD DVD drives within the overall PC business relative to future market demand.

 http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2008_02/pr1903.htm

Say bye-bye to HD-DVD folks.

Quote from: Serious

Quote from: FuMaNSurely this kills everything http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_Versatile_Disc

No, but this does.

QuoteTOKYO--Toshiba Corporation today announced that it has undertaken a thorough review of its overall strategy for HD DVD and has decided it will no longer develop, manufacture and market HD DVD players and recorders. This decision has been made following recent major changes in the market. Toshiba will continue, however, to provide full product support and after-sales service for all owners of Toshiba HD DVD products.

...

Toshiba will begin to reduce shipments of HD DVD players and recorders to retail channels, aiming for cessation of these businesses by the end of March 2008. Toshiba also plans to end volume production of HD DVD disk drives for such applications as PCs and games in the same timeframe, yet will continue to make efforts to meet customer requirements. The company will continue to assess the position of notebook PCs with integrated HD DVD drives within the overall PC business relative to future market demand.

 http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2008_02/pr1903.htm

Say bye-bye to HD-DVD folks.

Serious  , read the forums dude - we know we linked its official we knew from start of thread it was happening and it could be 3 ways to do it and then that it pulled out
:P

What would have been news is the deal they have done with Sony that was finalised in regard to the manafacture plants and the cell chip etc :P

Just pointing out that its official, no other link does that :P

Microsoft: Xbox 360 HD DVD Player Officially Discontinued

QuoteAs a result of recent decisions made by Toshiba, Hollywood studios, and retailers, Microsoft plans to withdraw from HD DVD. Xbox will no longer manufacture new HD DVD players for the Xbox 360, but we will continue to provide standard product and warranty support for all Xbox 360 HD DVD Players in the market. As we stated earlier, we do not believe this decision will have any material impact on the Xbox 360 platform or our position in the marketplace. HD DVD is one of the several ways we offer a high definition experience to consumers and we will continue to give consumers the choice to enjoy digital distribution of high definition movies and TV shows directly to their living room, along with playback of the DVD movies they already own.

http://gamerscoreblog.com/team/archive/2008/02/23/557671.aspx
MS owned Blog.

Quote from: SeriousJust pointing out that its official, no other link does that :P

Quotehttp://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=33247
100% official Toshiba fully back out and as stated if this option was taken it would mean they had full talks with the others involved and committed to the format and that have started or have already sorted what to do - ala blu ray.

http://www.tekforums.co.uk/posts/list/30/11391.page
My post :P

Quote from: neXus

Quote from: SeriousJust pointing out that its official, no other link does that :P

Quotehttp://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=33247
100% official Toshiba fully back out and as stated if this option was taken it would mean they had full talks with the others involved and committed to the format and that have started or have already sorted what to do - ala blu ray.

http://www.tekforums.co.uk/posts/list/30/11391.page
My post :P

Not from Toshiba though :P

Quote from: Serious

Quote from: neXus

Quote from: SeriousJust pointing out that its official, no other link does that :P

Quotehttp://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=33247
100% official Toshiba fully back out and as stated if this option was taken it would mean they had full talks with the others involved and committed to the format and that have started or have already sorted what to do - ala blu ray.

http://www.tekforums.co.uk/posts/list/30/11391.page
My post :P

Not from Toshiba though :P

Yeah it was hence the quote and the link to their statement m8 :P

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6187311.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=newstop&tag=newstop;title;11

Quote"It should be consumer choice; and if thats the way they vote, thats something well have to consider," Penello told the Reuters news service during the 2008 Consumer Electronics Show in January. Since then, though, decisions by retail giants Wal-Mart and Best Buy as well as online rental house Netflix made up the publics mind for it, causing Toshiba to finally abandon HD DVD production last month.

Citing an unnamed "senior executive," the Financial Times said that Sony and Microsoft are not simply discussing a successor to the Xbox 360s now discontinued, dirt-cheap external HD DVD drive. The newspaper said that there is also the possibility of an internal Blu-ray drive being incorporated into a new, more expensive "premium" 360 model, as it is already in the PlayStation 3. Thusly, Sony would earn royalties from sales of a rival console--a first for the game industry.

QuoteMicrosoft backed Toshibas HD DVD in its losing effort against Sonys Blu-ray in the next-gen disc format wars, but it doesnt appear to be holding grudges. At the companys Mix08 Internet conference in Las Vegas yesterday, Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer confirmed that Microsoft will be working with Blu-ray, according to a Seattle Post-Intelligencer report.

"Weve already been working on, for example, in Windows, device driver support for Blu-ray drives and the like, and I think the world moves on," Ballmer said. "Toshiba has moved on. Weve moved on, and well support Blu-ray in ways that make sense." The report doesnt mention the Xbox 360 or the hypothetical Blu-ray add-on that has been rumored of, hinted at, and reported on.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/show_blog_entry.php?topic_id=26276872&sid=6187414&om_act=convert&om_clk=newstop&tag=newstop;title;2

This is a good quote from Sony:

Quote"If Microsoft wants to release Gears of War 3 on a Blu-ray Disc, I think we can make that happen,"

Sony Computer Entertainment Americas vice president of product marketing Scott A.

As of press time, Microsoft had not returned requests for comment on the issue in light of Ballmers presentation. However, the company had already addressed the possibility of an Xbox 360 Blu-ray drive earlier this week, with a representative saying, "We have made no such announcement. Games are what are driving consumers to purchase game consoles, and we remain focused on providing the largest library of blockbuster games available."

Steps closer
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6187379.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=newstop&tag=newstop;title;1


Things are moving at a nice pace so expect an external player then 360 with it built in and it now looks like the next console could well be blu ray as standard as well.

Those quotes say Sony and Microsoft are talking about a next gen console having a Bluray player.  Which its bound to if were not at streaming all content.

The only line from Microsoft is:

QuoteAs of press time, Microsoft had not returned requests for comment on the issue in light of Ballmers presentation. However, the company had already addressed the possibility of an Xbox 360 Blu-ray drive earlier this week, with a representative saying, "We have made no such announcement. Games are what are driving consumers to purchase game consoles, and we remain focused on providing the largest library of blockbuster games available."

No closer than talk still.  Times running out on your 3 months...

Quote from: SteveFThose quotes say Sony and Microsoft are talking about a next gen console having a Bluray player.  Which its bound to if were not at streaming all content.

The only line from Microsoft is:

QuoteAs of press time, Microsoft had not returned requests for comment on the issue in light of Ballmers presentation. However, the company had already addressed the possibility of an Xbox 360 Blu-ray drive earlier this week, with a representative saying, "We have made no such announcement. Games are what are driving consumers to purchase game consoles, and we remain focused on providing the largest library of blockbuster games available."

No closer than talk still.  Times running out on your 3 months...

- On the player issues note how I linked the comment that stated as early as and how I did not take you bet on when as I do not know when just that it will
- Secondly not just about next gen as all of it is not about that and how the future revisions of the 360 one was going to have hd-dvd and now talks are that it could now be blu ray and an external player before will follow when you have this and previous stuff.
Not going to argue with you as your adamant to be insulting last few comments you made in this and other thread which have peeved me I am just waiting for it to enfold and its going how I said it was going to so far.
Remember you said flat out right never and the way you talked they were not even going to get anywhere at all, Sony and MS do not see any problems and things they are working together etc so up to now you were mistaken steve.

Quote from: neXusRemember you said flat out right never and the way you talked they were not even going to get anywhere at all, Sony and MS do not see any problems and things they are working together etc so up to now you were mistaken steve.

lol I never said that.  go find anywhere I said it.  I even said I think itll happen in the posts if you read them, what I said was no license has been issued and nothinng has been agreed.  I believe I said that several times in several posts, youre just reading what you like into my posts.  Seriously, show me where I said theyll never put a bluray drive in a Microsoft product.

Bluray is the new film and disc standard.  Microsofts next console will want to play movies and use discs.  Im sure theyd like to be able to release a bluray player tomorrow.  I said all this several times.  I said they dont have permission.  What else are they going to use in a next gen console than a bluray drive.  Theres no competing technology...  Unless they stream every game/movie/everything they have to have a bluray drive and they have to be in talks for the next console.  thats pretty obvious.

You seem to read me saying they hadnt/havent got a license and that theres no official agreement been reached as meaning that companies never speak and Microsoft have no desire to have a drive.  Thats not what Ive said many times.  What I have said now about 4000000 times is that they hadnt got an agreement for it and that they wont be releasing one anytime soon.

Frankly Im suprised you dont comprehend that - its a simple statement.

I think that the next gen consoles wont play discs, nor will games come on them, so theres no need for all the arguments about discs!

Quote from: MarkI think that the next gen consoles wont play discs, nor will games come on them, so theres no need for all the arguments about discs!

A Phantom supporter then Mark?

MS "No Plans For BR"

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2008/03/14/ms_no_plans_for_blu-ray_on_xbox_360/1

Which is no surprise since the HD-DVD addon had a mere 3% attachment rate which is very low compared to the normal 360 attachment rate.  

Quote from: CypherMS "No Plans For BR"

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2008/03/14/ms_no_plans_for_blu-ray_on_xbox_360/1

LOL what happened to nexus inside knowledge  :rofl:

Im just going to be mature and not say much.

All Ill say is I suspect if the news had gone the other way I wouldnt be getting the same treatment.

Well this thread was a load of hot air. :w00t:

Im just glad I resisted criticising......erm yes.  Moving on.

Yep I guess you do have to be careful lest you become the target of a big angry paragraph full of broken English and spelling mistakes....   -)

I just got tired of seeing something I knew to be wrong being spammed across several threads.  This forum has good info on it and if we keep speculation from being declared as fact it stays that way.

I am however curious who the source was...  Surely you can tell us now since he/she/it was clearly talking rubbish.

Quote from: Dave

Quote from: CypherMS "No Plans For BR"

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2008/03/14/ms_no_plans_for_blu-ray_on_xbox_360/1

LOL what happened to nexus inside knowledge  :rofl:

Zzz, These people are paid to lie
It will not be the first in any company and for the last 3 things MS saying they were not doing it, In fact as other articles on the web have said and pointed out MS denied the HD-DVD player right up to 2 weeks before it was announced.
Bestbuy has sent emails to its stores in regard to coming products and have the 360 blu ray player listed as an example (this week)

Keep the bashing at me going because I will childishly if you will want apologies If I am wrong I will do the same

oh well, shall we just drop this thread now - I dont really care if youre right or wrong anymore.  Just chill with the stating things as fact plx.

edit: I dont think people are childishly bashing you.  I think you are just a bit delicate when someone disagrees with you.  They are two very different things.
IT WILL HAPPEN!

Only 2 real facts have actually emerged out of this thread.

1. HD-DVD has failes.
2. The comments were made by Aaron Greenberg, group product manager for Xbox 360.  Specifically denying any intention to even work on a BR drive at this point in time.  Whether he is lying I dont care.  The horses mouth has spoken.

A giant Ford Mondeo made of lego is going to crash into Vienna from outer space in about 3 weeks time.  Its gonna happen.  Its all over the interarz web because I want it to happen.

Moving on to more important matters.....