...or is it just for people with too much time on their hands?
Ive not had any major problems with windows XP (I couldnt care less if XYZ version of linux loads up 20 seconds quicker or microsoft is evil) & all the bits of software Ive bought seem to work fine - it is easy to use and it does the job.
Yet there do appear to be a few linux fan boys on here so I was wondering what is so great about it - IMO it just seems like extra hassle.
What is it that you guys do that means you need to spend time faffing about with linux rather than simply using windows (Im mean aside from server side stuff - just on a personal computer level).
I may be wrong but IMO it just seem that people use linux more as some sort of hobby than for any real practical reason & then use the whole "its more stable" "it loads up quicker" "yes you can use xyz bit of software hardware as long as you add these bits of code & spend half an hour doing this and that"
I guess some people like collecting stamps, other people like train spotting and some people like Linux.
Yes, its bloody fantastic.
Its about freedom. With windows, Im treated like a criminal and required to pay for a closed secretive system, where I have to pay even more to get it to look anything short of fisher price.
I get a more usable gui, with more flexibility, better software management, far smaller installation footprint, etc.
Its also got support for cooler stuff like svg icons, actual document/image thumbnails on the desktop, and much much superior window management.
Its a far superior OS than XP.
Is XP lousy? Not really, but its closed and creepy, I use it every now and again for stuff like Google earth and to operate the scanner bit of my 3:1.
Linux is a hobby the same way that XP is, and in a way, its easier to find solutions for Linux problem and fixing a problem is most often more straight forward.
So between something thats, in my opinion, just easier to use, has a sharper community, and offers me freedom of every kind, and something thats OK, but is artificially limited, has closed code and treats me like a bloody crook, Ill take Linux please.
I agree with maxxi about Micro$oft being a rip off, however all i use linux for is coding at uni..... its easier than using XP..... not sure if i could use it as my day-to-day OS tho, mainly because ive never tried!
Quote from: maximusotterYes, its bloody fantastic.
Its about freedom. With windows, Im treated like a criminal and required to pay for a closed secretive system, where I have to pay even more to get it to look anything short of fisher price.
I get a more usable gui, with more flexibility, better software management, far smaller installation footprint, etc.
Its also got support for cooler stuff like svg icons, actual document/image thumbnails on the desktop, and much much superior window management.
Its a far superior OS than XP.
Is XP lousy? Not really, but its closed and creepy, I use it every now and again for stuff like Google earth and to operate the scanner bit of my 3:1.
Linux is a hobby the same way that XP is, and in a way, its easier to find solutions for Linux problem and fixing a problem is most often more straight forward.
So between something thats, in my opinion, just easier to use, has a sharper community, and offers me freedom of every kind, and something thats OK, but is artificially limited, has closed code and treats me like a bloody crook, Ill take Linux please.
All that he said :D
yeah, if youve gotten used to a certain set of programs, habits can be hard to break.
I just never got into dows at all. Used it back in 93 at school a little and thought it was pretty rough. Then got a 98 box which I used for all of a month before slapping Suse on it. It wasnt that Suse was a more capable OS at that point, about six years ago, it was that 98 pissed me off--it seemed like a very hostile environment. So I switched to something that was initially a bit more challenging, but also more rewarding once I understood a few basic concepts.
Its been ready for general desktop use for going on five years now, but its been in the last two, where hardware recognition and things such as lappie sleep have really become polished.
Quote from: brummieAll that he said :D
Even after your death match with dist-upgrade?
:D
The only reasons I dont use it is that so far every version I have tried has problems with USB, limited plug and play with memory devices :(. I have Windoze but dont fancy upgrading to the next one.
Doubtless maxi will say if there has been improvement in the last few months.
Quote from: maximusotterQuote from: brummieAll that he said :D
Even after your death match with dist-upgrade?
:D
Yeah, fortunately i have my /home on a different partition for all my little learning mishaps :P
Quote from: Serious_The only reasons I dont use it is that so far every version I have tried has problems with USB, limited plug and play with memory devices :(. I have Windoze but dont fancy upgrading to the next one.
Doubtless maxi will say if there has been improvement in the last few months.
Honestly mate when dapper releases you should give it another go as it has become so much better now.
Im using widows now till the next release as i borked mine last night and would rather wait for the final product thatn have to upgrade later.
Im missing it already :(
Quote from: Serious_The only reasons I dont use it is that so far every version I have tried has problems with USB, limited plug and play with memory devices :(. I have Windoze but dont fancy upgrading to the next one.
Doubtless maxi will say if there has been improvement in the last few months.
USB plug and play has been flawless on most distros for years. With Ubuntu, gnome-volume-manager allows you to choose what happens when different varieties of devices are plugged in.
Perhaps your motherboard has problems? If your device mounts as mass storage, it should and will automount. It its a device with proprietary drivers like the awful Kodak cameras, usually gphoto will deal with it.
Quote from: brummieIm using widows now till the next release as i borked mine last night and would rather wait for the final product thatn have to upgrade later.
Im missing it already :(
man, it sucks that it went wonky on ya. I must have the greatest luck in the world, as I dist-upgrade daily to get the most recent snapshot and the worst thing thats happened is that I got the log-in sound when I logged out. :lol:
Anything wierd about your old configuration?
it was pretty untouched.
Its the GDM that wont start
I boot failsafe and get to the prompt. Type "GDM" and it tries to start and hangs :(
Ohh, I had GDM be a little sucky after one update.
Might not be a big deal, perhaps you just got a crap snapshot.
Can you simply login at the console, then "startx"?
You dont need GDM, bitchslap it and leave it by the wayside till you can do a fresh update.
startx does the same, just hangs :(
Quote from: brummiestartx does the same, just hangs :(
hmmm, probably a wonk /etc/X11/xorg.conf file.
Id:
$ sudo apt-get install nano
$ sudo nano /etc/X11/xorg.conf
and have a look at the vid card section.
you can alternately:
$ sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
You might have to reinstall any special drivers for 3D acceleration, but it doesnt sound like your install is hosed.
You can also install the latest snapshot:
$ sudo apt-get update
$ sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
btw, I dont feel that bad now, you just have a broken x-server--the one thing I warned might happen. :P
Totally recoverable.
Quote from: maximusotterIts about freedom. With windows, Im treated like a criminal and required to pay for a closed secretive system, where I have to pay even more to get it to look anything short of fisher price.
I dont think you can really say they treat you like a criminal any more than people who lock the door to thier house treat the rest of the population like criminals. - No they dont want windows to be open source - they have commercial reasons for doing so & as far as the average PC user is concerned it doesnt really matter.
Im sure that Linux probably is faster, better looking and more stable than XP - point Im making is that XP has been hassle free for me & does the job. The only reason I can really see to spend more time joining linux forums, learning all the bits of code/commands etc.. & constantly tinkering with the thing is if it is a done as part of a hobby.
I spend far less time making my Ubuntu box work than it takes to properly secure a Windows box.
Now, brummie and I do like to run bleeding edge, which is the equivalent of running Vista, and there will be problems.
My problem was so severe that it took 30 seconds to solve.
Why so easy? Because linuxs config files are plain text and located in /etc. You dont need to be an expert to edit one, jut be able to find the right file and have Nano installed.
When Windows doesnt boot properly, you almost always have to reinstall. Its disposable.
I just upgraded to the latest build of Ubuntu last night, not because I had a pressing need to, but because indeed, its fun. I ran a quick command, and when I got up this morning, I rebooted, and all the software on my box is the latest available. You gotta love that.
The world has become so reliant on MS code that it would be in governments interests to force them to open it up for scrutiny. Have them release it into the wild, and let them keep the code to Office--which is the real money maker. There are strict laws against monopolies and abusing the market with one, and MS has for some reason been able to get away with it for years. Screw them.
tried all that and nowt worked
ahhhhh well :(
Quote from: brummietried all that and nowt worked
ahhhhh well :(
time to go L337 at the way.
Youre aware that you can switch virtual consoles w/o x with ctrl+alt+f1-6?
in one you can hook up to #ubuntu via irssi:
$ irssi -c
irc.freenode.net -n brummie
$ /j #ubuntu
and have one of the uber hackers help ya.
ohhh, post your vid card and xorg.conf file here and somebodys bound to find the problem. :P
if youre dual booting, just grab a copy of explore2fs to read the Ubuntu drive http://uranus.it.swin.edu.au/~jn/linux/explore2fs.htm
Quote from: maximusotterohhh, post your vid card and xorg.conf file here and somebodys bound to find the problem. :P
if youre dual booting, just grab a copy of explore2fs to read the Ubuntu drive http://uranus.it.swin.edu.au/~jn/linux/explore2fs.htm
unfortunately its reiserfs
might work: http://yareg.akucom.de/
TBPFH i couldnt wait so i reinstalled the badger :D
:Woot:
tsk tsk. Impatient. :P
I think red hosed his install as well. I shouldnt be putting ideas in your heads. :P
I think the same thing happened when I upgraded from Hoary to Breezy. Im like "it was soooo easy" then everybody else hoses their installs as I got lucky.
:rofl:
Oh well
Im installed and updated and 95% where i was before i borked it :D
Im still curious as why I can update nightly with only one initial little tweak needed and yall have major issues. :hmm:
A lotta work to get back to where ya started. :lol:
Quote from: maximusotterIm still curious as why I can update nightly with only one initial little tweak needed and yall have major issues. :hmm:
A lotta work to get back to where ya started. :lol:
No work at all, all done LOL
I think i borked mine when you get asked at about 75% do you want to change your GDM, the default was no but i chose the bleedin edge :D
One draw back me menu.lst is about two pages long
*note to self, edit me grub menu :lol:
Same thing happened to me going from Warty to hoary :D
Linux is fun, its free, and now from using fedora in uni and so on, im as familiar with linux as I am with windows almost. Granted I dont know where things are kept all the time, but most problems I can fumble my way through with the help of others.
Theres practically no difference, however I do think most linux users say "theres less that goes wrong" because they dont know how to see whats going wrong :)
I wonder how many check their error logs on linux in comparison to those who check them on windows. I check mine (on windows) on an almost daily basis, and its the first thing I go to if I get an unexpected crash or reboot.
Linux, if I crash, I reboot X and carry on going not because its stable, or better, but because I dont know how to trace a problem, so whats the point in worrying over it I ignore it, in windows I chase it, I google, and I try fixes that inevitably break something else in it. :D
Its pretty good, give it 3-4yrs and itll be a viable alternative to windows for average users (i.e. those who dont want to spend time editing config files and running text commands), but it depends what M$ do in that time.
Its worth playing with still, something like Ubuntu is less painful to install than XP is; things have come on a long way in the past few years and getting a net/email/office box up n running is a doddle.
* Willing to stand corrected on any of the above :)
Something like a boxed Suse has been a decent alternative for average users for 5 years, imho. Average meaning somebody that doesnt game and isnt tied to any specific software.
Ubuntu, Fedora, and the other "free" linuxes will always be a bit fringe and for slightly advanced computer users as you dont get manuals and need to install bits and bobs.
Its a moving target tho, this elusive "average user". It might be in ten years that well say that linux is almost ready for the average user as its cappuccinos are a little less foamy than Windows Shasta.
I dont think editing the average config file here and there is a bad thing either. Would be nice if most folks didnt hve to do it, but the fact that youre able to is to me more of a sign of a serviceable OS rather than one where the hood is welded shut.
Quote from: sdpIts pretty good, give it 3-4yrs and itll be a viable alternative to windows for average users.
Certain distros I think are ready for the
average user now (my parents are completely computer Illiterate for example, yet I still got them happily installing
PCLOS.) :)
I agree though that certain config files could use better GUIs however. (CUPS, the common unix printing system for example, is a mess IMO.)
wow dave. thats really quite pointless lol.
with your response linux give me the freedom to custumize everything. i loathe command line. and i spend as little time on it as possible as i have the technical ability of a carrot.
however. linux forfills my day to day needs exceedinly well. so much if i was given the choice between someone paying for a new machine would have to stick ubuntu on it as it would feel odd wihtout it.
also i have to use osx and xp. but prefer osx/ubuntu just for its freedom
seems the majority thinks there is nowt wrong with XP & linux is more of a hobby
Quote from: Daveseems the majority thinks there is nowt wrong with XP & linux is more of a hobby
I voted for it but thats not why.
Theres nowt wrong with either of them :) Id quite happily use either interchangably, dont have a favourite of the two just I use them as and when I need to :)
Who cares what the majority thinks? Reality isnt decided upon by consensus. This is a case of the blind men trying to describe an elephant.
The majority of the internet runs on Linux. Guess thats one massive hobby.
XP has tons of "PC hobbyist" mags at the local news stand. What does that mean?
You can have a family car and trick it out. Duh.
Quote from: Daveseems the majority thinks there is nowt wrong with XP & linux is more of a hobby
If you have XP then there isnt anything wrong with using it, but Linux is no longer a hobby, its a realistic, minimal cost alternative for those who dont want to pay the Gates tax. Plenty of companies are saving a lot of money by using it instead of Windoze.
It also runs better on lower spec machines and thre are plenty of versions so you can basically get a made to measure version almost off the peg.
The question could have been better worded ;)
The question is a bit trolly.
Its an OS. I like it better. I wouldnt use XP on a day to day basis even if somebody bought me a copy of XP Pro. Ive got XP home on me other drive and its never really been a PITA, but its never really been all that fun either. Never had a virus, but I hate having to run a bunch of software to ensure that.
really tho, the reason I like Linux more is the more complete set of wing-dings.
http://static.flickr.com/46/114297120_1999f30b5e_o.jpg
Maplins use Linux and gnome for their POS.
Dunno what version and other software though. Noticed a couple of months ago
Quote from: brummieMaplins use Linux and gnome for their POS.
Dunno what version and other software though. Noticed a couple of months ago
I saw a POS system at a home furnishing store last year with the same setup. RedHat most likely.
Burlington Coat Factory, which is a hooge clothing outlet over here, uses Linux + custom POS software.
Im not aware of any commercial POS software tho. Would be awesome for ma & pa restaurants as systems like "Positouch" are way overpriced.
up untill i did my avce in it i thought pos system is piece of sh*t.
worth a go tho :)
Quote from: maximusotterUSB plug and play has been flawless on most distros for years. With Ubuntu, gnome-volume-manager allows you to choose what happens when different varieties of devices are plugged in.
Tried a few distros about six months ago and it was an issue then.
QuotePerhaps your motherboard has problems? If your device mounts as mass storage, it should and will automount. It its a device with proprietary drivers like the awful Kodak cameras, usually gphoto will deal with it.
Nothing wrong with the motherboard, just tried some new distros and they work fine but the older ones still dont.
Quote from: SeriousTried a few distros about six months ago and it was an issue then.
You havent tried very hard then cause i havent had issues for ages.
It could have been just my setup but when I searched I found several other references to problems with USB memory devices. It works now though.
Pity it doesnt recognise my 1400*1050 resolution notebook screen but thats being just picky...
Quote from: SeriousIt could have been just my setup but when I searched I found several other references to problems with USB memory devices. It works now though.
Pity it doesnt recognise my 1400*1050 resolution notebook screen but thats being just picky...
I had the same problem with my notebook. cause it was cheap and cheerful
Quote from: brummieQuote from: SeriousIt could have been just my setup but when I searched I found several other references to problems with USB memory devices. It works now though.
Pity it doesnt recognise my 1400*1050 resolution notebook screen but thats being just picky...
I had the same problem with my notebook. cause it was cheap and cheerful
Mines got reasonable quality components and is a relatively powerful item (3.06GhzPantsium, 1GB ram Go5600), still more capable than an average lappy. Only issues are it weighs a good bit and battery life isnt good (about 30 mins).
The resolution though isnt a standard one so falls between whats expected and I get offered the next lowest.
If you want a secure OS with a methodical, stable release program, then you should look no further than BSD. FreeBSD for the desktop, and OpenBSD for the utterly paranoid.
If, on the other hand you want an OS hobbled together by hundreds of coders, each keen to stamp their mark on a particular library or application, get Linux. It does get the job done (Although it still runs slower than BSD in my experience:P)
We may all laugh about windows being unsecure, but imagine being able to read the root password from any user account in a PLAIN TEXT FILE ;)
Quote from: SeriousQuote from: brummieQuote from: SeriousIt could have been just my setup but when I searched I found several other references to problems with USB memory devices. It works now though.
Pity it doesnt recognise my 1400*1050 resolution notebook screen but thats being just picky...
I had the same problem with my notebook. cause it was cheap and cheerful
Mines got reasonable quality components and is a relatively powerful item (3.06GhzPantsium, 1GB ram Go5600), still more capable than an average lappy. Only issues are it weighs a good bit and battery life isnt good (about 30 mins).
The resolution though isnt a standard one so falls between whats expected and I get offered the next lowest.
I am pretty sure you can force the issue with a bit of editing .conf files :) Shouldnt be too hard, just specify a resolution by hand :)
Quote from: BXGTi16VIf you want a secure OS with a methodical, stable release program, then you should look no further than BSD. FreeBSD for the desktop, and OpenBSD for the utterly paranoid.
If, on the other hand you want an OS hobbled together by hundreds of coders, each keen to stamp their mark on a particular library or application, get Linux. It does get the job done (Although it still runs slower than BSD in my experience:P)
We may all laugh about windows being unsecure, but imagine being able to read the root password from any user account in a PLAIN TEXT FILE ;)
plain text file,wheres that then? OpenBSD sounds as if it comunity based too??
Quote from: brummieQuote from: BXGTi16VIf you want a secure OS with a methodical, stable release program, then you should look no further than BSD. FreeBSD for the desktop, and OpenBSD for the utterly paranoid.
If, on the other hand you want an OS hobbled together by hundreds of coders, each keen to stamp their mark on a particular library or application, get Linux. It does get the job done (Although it still runs slower than BSD in my experience:P)
We may all laugh about windows being unsecure, but imagine being able to read the root password from any user account in a PLAIN TEXT FILE ;)
plain text file,wheres that then? OpenBSD sounds as if it comunity based too??
it is but Berkley University check _everything_ that has been put through it. Makes it probably the most satble of the open source disros. However pretty much any of the "good" linux distros are just as useful
Quote from: brummieQuote from: BXGTi16VIf you want a secure OS with a methodical, stable release program, then you should look no further than BSD. FreeBSD for the desktop, and OpenBSD for the utterly paranoid.
If, on the other hand you want an OS hobbled together by hundreds of coders, each keen to stamp their mark on a particular library or application, get Linux. It does get the job done (Although it still runs slower than BSD in my experience:P)
We may all laugh about windows being unsecure, but imagine being able to read the root password from any user account in a PLAIN TEXT FILE ;)
plain text file,wheres that then? OpenBSD sounds as if it comunity based too??
That would have been Ubuntu 5.1 - the install password - my mistake