Sam, if you dont like it, dont use it.

I am using it, largely because its fuzzy and easy while I figure out how things are really done. I have to agree it is annoying when trying to figure out how to do something that you have to either use the Ubuntu specific forums/wiki/etc or find out how to do it in Debian and then spend nearly as long figuring out where they moved that file to in Ubuntu.

I do have to disagree on your point about Linux GUIs though, for my money GNOME and KDE knock Windows GUI for six.

Id have to disagree with you there - I use FreeBSD as my daily OS and KDE as my windows manager when required, and I will be the first to admit that KDE and Gnome both look like cheap tat compared to even Windows 2000.

mmm perhaps Im just odd.

WinXP in particular looks very fisher price to me, whereas Gnome looks reasonably advanced but functional.

Win2K Pro remains my favourite windows for looks so perhaps I just like old looking OSs.

Go on then Sam - back up your argument.

Im actually interested as to why you think it sucks. No it wouldnt be my first choice for servers but then neither would a lot of other distros,

Personally I quite like ubuntu for the desktop - although I dont run GNOME or KDE or XFCE...

(Ok so I run gnome-session and gnome-panel but I use pekwm as my window manager)

Cornet

I think it sucks because theyve changed loads of sh*t for no reason, other than to be different.

Just like in vista when they move things about. Its no better having control panel in a grid rather than a list.

...and here was me expecting some sort of intellectual discussion on the subject

Well what more do you want? Im not a fan boy.

I was hoping for a bit more than "they changed sh*t", what sh*t have they changed that you dont like ?

Every distro does things different, ubuntu (and debian) maintainers do some strange things from time to time but I would always choose them over say Redhat or Fedora anyday.

You would why? I use linux for proper stuff not downloading porn.

Why in ubuntu does it not by default create a normal maildir ?

Quote from: SamYou would why? I use linux for proper stuff not downloading porn.

How about being senior sysadmin supporting over 120 production Linux servers (Debian/Slackware/SuSE) and ~30 Ubuntu Desktop systems for developers.... oh and not to mention our integration and test environments (also Linux)

Oh and included in that are MySQL servers with databases that are between 60GB and 250GB in size..

Is that "proper" enough for you !?

Quote from: SamWhy in ubuntu does it not by default create a normal maildir ?

There is an obvious reason for this. If you install and MTA (like Exim) then its a reasonable assumption that you want to do something vaguely useful with local mail. Now in using mbox format as default then it means that you dont need to install an IMAP/POP server in order to get your mail. Pretty much all Email clients (Thunderbird, Evolution, Sylpheed, mutt, pine, elm) support mbox format. You can just point it at the file and Job done.

Many of the aforementioned clients dont support Maildir ... so then you need to go and install a IMAP or POP server.

Im sure there are many other reasons why they chose mbox of Maildir by default but that appears to be the obvious one to me....

... oh and according to /usr/share/exim4/README.Debian:


   Please note that most mail tools in Debian expect the local delivery
   method to be mbox in their default.



If you want to change it to Maildir and cant be bothered to read the docs then just run:

sudo dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config


and you can select it part way through the configuration...

You seem to be a bit confused on email but never mind. But my point is this, why should i have to faff about to get it to work the standard linux way ?

The version of ubuntu that I had to work with didnt even come with a c compiler. What a load of sh*t. I had about 200 packages to install before I could even compile exim !

Well I assumed that you were complaining that exim does mbox rather than Maildir by default.

There is no real "Linux Standard Way" nearest thing is LSB (Linux Standard Base) and LFS (Linux Fllesystem Layout) both of which Debian and Ubuntu qualify..

As for not having gcc then its hardly rocket science to install (and if youre running a server then strictly you shouldnt have a C compiler on the box for security reasons)

oh and are you aware you can do:

 apt-get build-dep exim4