hey to everyone, kinda new and apologies if this topic has been made before...
ive had my 360 since christmas and over the last 2 months i have noticed scuff marks on the outer edges of my discs after playing for long sessions
at first i thought it could be my doing but theyre in perfect circular arcs so they cant be manually made scratches (ie. from wear n tear)...
the final straw came a few nights ago when i was playing on the 360 and my friend knocked it over from its vertical position and a harsh grinding noise ensued...
i carried on playing after turning it back on its side but when i came back to it later on that night it would not load the game properly!
turns out after looking at the disc that the ring of death had appeared on the outside of the disc more prominent than before, gouges rather scratches really - making it unreadable
so i emailed MS support 2 days about the issue and returned my game to game (who were kind enough to replace it with a fresh copy)
however, no reply from MS Support yet (despite the promise of a 24 hour reply) which is really poor on their behalf
anyone else experiencing these issues?
its ridiculous that such an advanced console wont let you play your game without it being destroyed in the process
Not had a problem myself but pretty much every console and cd/dvd drive unit that shifts a lot of copies has had this problem at some point or another. The PS2 was plagued with it at launch, the XBox 360 was, the Wii hasnt been that Ive seen but thats probably because it doesnt access the discs as much.
To be honest it always seems to be people who have their consoles / personal video recorders / computers so the CD drive is vertical or move it during use who suffer...
At the end of the day you have a circle of mirror flat plastic spinning at incredibly high speeds. If you move, vibrate, knock over the console while the disc is spinning you cant be too suprised that the discs get scratched. As you say most game companies will replace scratched discs if you post them back to them even if the shop wont. Id lay the console down so the disc is horizontal (i.e. in balance) and not knock it, move it or bounce it and see if the problem goes away first.
If youre constantly tugging on the console with the control wires or anything similar then youre going to be wobbling the disc and it WILL rub on the cd tray. the disc that got screwed was when your mate knocked the machine over while accessing a disc. Its not related to the xbox - every cd drive in the world works like that.
Quote from: Jaitsuhey to everyone, kinda new and apologies if this topic has been made before...
ive had my 360 since christmas and over the last 2 months i have noticed scuff marks on the outer edges of my discs after playing for long sessions
at first i thought it could be my doing but theyre in perfect circular arcs so they cant be manually made scratches (ie. from wear n tear)...
the final straw came a few nights ago when i was playing on the 360 and my friend knocked it over from its vertical position and a harsh grinding noise ensued...
i carried on playing after turning it back on its side but when i came back to it later on that night it would not load the game properly!
turns out after looking at the disc that the ring of death had appeared on the outside of the disc more prominent than before, gouges rather scratches really - making it unreadable
so i emailed MS support 2 days about the issue and returned my game to game (who were kind enough to replace it with a fresh copy)
however, no reply from MS Support yet (despite the promise of a 24 hour reply) which is really poor on their behalf
anyone else experiencing these issues?
its ridiculous that such an advanced console wont let you play your game without it being destroyed in the process
Although I can not find the article at this minute, can not remember which site It was from now but your not alone.
European Union is currently quizzing MS about all the machines scratching discs
Quite common tbh, not sure what to do it about it since I do not own one yet, Some owners with experience with ms support will I a am sure give you more info on what to do, I will try find that link as well
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQN_pz1KfMo&
This is what your mate did to the disc when he knocked it over. You can do the same experiment with a laptop or any other player reading from a disc at full speed.
People will use stuff like this and complain about the xbox/ps2/ps3 but its normal. At that speed the disc tries to stay spinning in the same place and its you that has changed the surroundings. Just dont move it while the discs spinning :)
Quote from: SteveFhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQN_pz1KfMo&
This is what your mate did to the disc when he knocked it over. You can do the same experiment with a laptop or any other player reading from a disc at full speed.
People will use stuff like this and complain about the xbox/ps2/ps3 but its normal. At that speed the disc tries to stay spinning in the same place and its you that has changed the surroundings. Just dont move it while the discs spinning :)
Ooh, good find, you can see a lot of people doing that as well
Reading some of the comments it genuinely amazes me how people dont realise you cant move them.
You get people saying things like "but I move my laptop while listening to music cds" or "I had a cd walkman and used to go jogging" as a reason. Those discs are spinning stupidly slow to read music. A dvd spins fast when youre accessing it. In a machine like a console theyre constantly being accessed at maximum speed so theyre going to have so much angular momentum theyre just not going to be able to get them to move fast enough.
Even literally forcing the middle of the disc to move with the console the edges of the disc are moving so quickly that the disc would just bend and shatter. Yeah these are on dremels
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9EFI-EmSJc
this is just a CD warming up in a normal cd drive (not even accessing) to give some idea how fast these things go:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wYAkYwAAEM&
Im sure I read somwhere it was a problem with latest drives, but MS have dumped them & gone back to LG/Hitachi/Samsung
http://www.engadget.com/2007/04/16/xbox-360-scratching-discs-maybe-says-microsoft/
Click on the photo & it takes you to another page where it says..
So, Kassa did tests on the console and put the whole process in video for them to have some credible proof. The result? Most of the consoles having this problem would be those produced in December 2006. It appears that there is a TSST drive with missing parts, which are meant to be there to make the disc stable. The culprit, therefore, is no other than Microsoft itself.
http://www.powerlabs.org/cdexplode.htm
The original and the best :D
Quote from: funkychicken9000http://www.powerlabs.org/cdexplode.htm
The original and the best :D
hehe thats the one I was looking for :)
Quote from: SteveFReading some of the comments it genuinely amazes me how people dont realise you cant move them.
The problem is units like the xbox are light enough that people can move them during operation. so it should read that its bad to do so and they shouldnt. TBH I have never had the problem with any laptop though
Quote from: SeriousQuote from: SteveFReading some of the comments it genuinely amazes me how people dont realise you cant move them.
The problem is units like the xbox are light enough that people can move them during operation. so it should read that its bad to do so and they shouldnt. TBH I have never had the problem with any laptop though
on my xbox (later generation) there was a huge sticker blocking the disc tray saying DO NOT MOVE WHEN DISC IS IN DRIVE. Kinda did the trick for me.
So, following eggs link led to a page that says playing the discs vertically is a bad idea as normal cd drives are designed to work horizontally.
Follow a link from that page and it says you should only use the console vertically to stop scratching.
http://xbox360.qj.net/Horizontal-Playing-Does-Scratch-Discs/pg/49/aid/4232
If you read enough on the internet it seems you can prove anything :)
lol
The internet is like the Bible - only much, much bigger :shock:
Quote from: SeriousThe internet is like the Bible - only much, much bigger :shock:
but we dont find out who done it
thanks for the feedback guys
i googled the topic yesterday when i had some spare time and read the articles posted... im now playing my console on its side instead of vertical and not had a problem since
i was uninformed on the topic so didnt know that moving the console would damage the disc in the tray... but now i know
and @ the cd explosion... jeez, had no idea the speeds that they reached really, kinda crazy
glad it works for you :)
Im just expecting mine to screw all my discs horizontally now in some sick and twisted form of karma lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlQYkaXv8RU&mode=related&search=
Found this interesting, dutch I know but it has subs
good find, I cant believe they release a stream of consoles after changing the dvd drive without testing them...
i found it funny that the dutch 8 year old had gears of war
Quote from: Jaitsugood find, I cant believe they release a stream of consoles after changing the dvd drive without testing them...
i found it funny that the dutch 8 year old had gears of war
I had a small giggle on "KUPUT"
I love the fact all the comments on that video are just like "that only happens if you knock it over while in use" etc.
Guessing a LOT of people have knocked theirs over to learn the lesson :)
Im betting the kid did knock it over then told his mum it just happened thinking oh well Ill just blame the console. Then his pushy mother gets a tv crew on the case lol.
I think that the video shows the problem is design as much as anything. Lack of instructions from M$ finishes the problem.
If the drives worked in the way that the one in the original playstation did or laptop drives do, then it wouldnt be a problem. With these drives you physically click the disk in, so it it securely held. With a normal drive like in a desktop or xbox360, the disk is basically only sat on a rubber spindle, so is nowhere near as securely held.
So the solution is somehow bodging a laptop drive into your 360 :P
Quote from: ShakeyIf the drives worked in the way that the one in the original playstation did or laptop drives do, then it wouldnt be a problem. With these drives you physically click the disk in, so it it securely held. With a normal drive like in a desktop or xbox360, the disk is basically only sat on a rubber spindle, so is nowhere near as securely held.
So the solution is somehow bodging a laptop drive into your 360 :P
Hence the video looking at a laptop drive and a 360 one noting that the rubber mini buffers on the lens are non existent on the 360 which would just stop it, basically MS had to change drive manufacturer and did not bother checking it out and testing it before going into mass production with it, fool them but they were pisses with the drive manufacturers, hence why they moved on again for the next lot of 360 elites.
it probably never even occurred to an engineer that someone would try and move/knock over the console while in use.
It happens all the time. You design something and make sure it all works and then someone uses it in a way you never even thought of and it forks up.
^^ i thought that... but lets face it, if a console is designed to be able to run in a vertical position they would test that it is stable...
and also PuNk said in another thread that his 360 came with a sticker saying "do not move whilst switched on", so they must have been aware of the situation
yup - they should have thought of it but Im not that suprised it slipped through. When youre deep into a project like this and trying to get the system to work, things like what would happen if it fell over tend to get overlooked. Its just the way things happen. The second you get it working, the next department in the chain, management or marketing will force you to pass it along.
In their defense Ive only ever seen Microsoft advertise the console when stood vertically or horiontally. Ive never seen an advert where its being carried or pushed over...
Realistically Punks sticker doesnt help. The engineers will have finished with the DVD drive of the XBox360 years before it reached the consumer. The sticker will have been an after thought.
When you buy a vase it doesnt have a sticker on saying do not knock this over, its just common sense. In the same way video players dont have a sticker saying do not pour water in here. Im sure someone has knocked a glass over onto a video player before but the engineers decided most people wouldnt do it (rightly or wrongly). It looks like they misjudged people with the console and thats why Punks got a sticker.
If you buy a coffee from McDonalds theres a label on the cup to warn you it will be hot. The person who first sold coffee in Mc Donalds probably didnt think that really needed a label. Someone kicked up a fuss about coffee being hot so now theres a label. Bags of nuts now have a label saying Warning - contains nuts. Again, some people may wonder if this wasnt fairly self-explanatory but it seems it needs a label. XBox 360s will no doubt get stickers saying please do not knock over or move around electronic items while theyre plugged in and running. Some might say thats fairly obvious but it seems that by putting it in a white box people become removed from whats inside and dont think. Its all levels of personal responsibility - if a sticker saves Microsoft a law suit theyll buy lots of stickers and cover the box in them.
Im not sure the sticker really makes it more obvious that you shouldnt shake around a £300+ electronics item. It gives Microsoft something to point at when people do knock them over tho. If the console itself blew up Id be asking for stickers 100%. If the spinning disc is just spinning and minding its own business then Im not so sure the sticker is essential but hey - more work for sticker manufacturers. :)
Note to consumer: this post contains excessive use of the word sticker.
Quote from: SteveFIn their defense Ive only ever seen Microsoft advertise the console when stood vertically or horiontally. Ive never seen an advert where its being carried or pushed over...
Makes no difference really, people will do things unless they are told not to, and even then some of the idiots are still going to try.
Quote from: SeriousQuote from: SteveFIn their defense Ive only ever seen Microsoft advertise the console when stood vertically or horiontally. Ive never seen an advert where its being carried or pushed over...
Makes no difference really, people will do things unless they are told not to, and even then some of the idiots are still going to try.
Woah look at spelling police serious. ;)
Whats your problem with defense? Its a perfectly valid way of spelling the word. Even ignoring the fact that not everyone (myself included) has only lived and worked in the UK and spend time in the US where it is 100% defense theres nothing wrong with the word in english anyway. If you want to get pedantic about it then actually both defence and defense are correct in english (as is offense and offence) since they both come from old english which didnt split ss and cs the way we do now. However, since Defensive is always spelt with an s theres no issue with defense - its not the preferred way of spelling it but it is perfectly fine in english. In an international forum its actually better.
Hoizontally I just missed out a letter as Im typing fast on a laptop keyboard :P
ignore people Steve, some here seem to really get worked up about the odd word spelt wrong, very strange :)
Anyway
The label thing was down to the fact the very first console batches did not do this as they were sorted etc.
Steve Microsoft Did take into account it moving etc in its design, when you google, what it was is when they had a second manufacturer for the drives and they did not have the rubber etc as on the video and a slightly different mould to hold the disk that was not quite right but none of the checks were made and hence the Europe wide issues over the US in terms of what batches came out when and where.
The bad bit is when they got the reports and noticed they still not done anything about it bar sticking the label on later versions, which must be that the tied into a deal with the manufacturer or they have all the drives already made and there and would cost them something silly to replace.
I would think MS did go nuts at the drive manufacture and got some money back from that, but if its only when its moved when on its not a huuuuge problem
All new 360s normal and eleite as of august will have newer drives though and will also have the new cpu chip
Quote from: SteveFHoizontally I just missed out a letter as Im typing fast on a laptop keyboard :P
Im not bothered how you spell things, just an occasional word ends up giving me grief. Just ignore me if I do it.
If I was pedantic about it I would be doing it to at least one in four posts on here. Quite a few insist on adding an e to the end of heroin - which totally changes the word.
Anyway my spell checker says its defence and not some namby Yankee spelling. So :P :lol:
Then I challenge your spell checker to a duel! Pistols at dawn squire!