Im disappointed this morning after I woke up and read about the new EU treaty. We live in an exciting time of a new era for Europe and all the possibilities from integration with other european states. Instead the British suffer from a delusion that the rest of Europe is inferior, we are too good to be involved, and we should withdraw. These are the comments from people on the BBC blog.
This kind of small minded arrogant attitude makes me ashamed to stand next to another European and say I am British.
We are a developed & prosporus country.
We are going to be dragged back to the dark ages because of this.
Give it 10 years & nearly every European State will be in it because of the financial gains theyll make.
Turkey, Bulgaria, Albania, Slovenia, Bealrus, Macedonia, Bosnia, Azerbaijan, turkmeistean, etc. Will be much better off than we will be
We are a prosperous country because we trade with the rest of the world. We have nothing to lose and everything to gain from a strong United States of Europe rivaling China, India and the USA. Our economy has boomed since we joined the EU.
Dont edit your posts after you make them or it doesnt make sense.
How will those countries be better off than us? Your lack of knowledge of most subjects is legendary in these forums, but please, explain yourself.
I havent heard a jot about this.
seems like a backwards step.
Lol thats a funny post.
Let me paraphase you here Red.
"I know nothing about this".
ergo
"I think its a bad idea".
I know nothing about space travel. I therefore have decided that the current space shuttle design is flawed.
Awesome. that should be in the new bible.
Also how can you draw that conclusion?
You said you didnt know a lot about it but somehow still decided it was a bad idea.
Its people like Egg who I would like to change their viewpoint and support a closer EU.
No i said it would be a bad idea not to do it. I didnt fully explain my meaning.
What you posted is the complete opposite of what you meant then. But never mind, I was surprised that someone who was living in France would be anti eu.
Heh, having to do all the customs fellatio everytime i return is growing tiresome. the sooner we can impose proper borders the better, with better eu cooperation we can do this, and not before.
Im all for it.
Look at the US - a union of states with each retaining their identity and right to determine law.
I think its a great model. You wont see Alabama going to war with New York, just like we wont see Germany invade France again.
Quote from: SamDont edit your posts after you make them or it doesnt make sense.
How will those countries be better off than us? Your lack of knowledge of most subjects is legendary in these forums, but please, explain yourself.
How will they be better off? Easy, they will be getting a lot more than they put in.
The migration from eastern europe is already crippling a lot of genuine people in the UK. At the moment, the poles, etc. work harder for less money. - OK Fair play to them. I got nothing against hard work... BUT somthing has gone wrong somwhere to allow that to happen.
I can go deep into, but whats the point? Youll just say im looking at the extremes or deny its as severe as it is.. but I know whats its like, I have worked in every major goverment/civil service thing from The prison service, to the police force, to job centres, to Immigration & whitehall.
We got families struggling to make ends meet. Their jobs go to eastern europeans who send the wealth out. We have eastern europeans claiming family tax credits & child allowance - sending the wealth out the country.
People on the dole cant get work, because people from abroad will work for less money, etc. - What people dont grasp is for a family of 4 to survive/live in the UK costs X amount. You got Foreign workers doing the same job for the same money - or usually under cutting who only have 1 person to survive/live in this country & the rest of the family live back home where its a lot lot cheaper.
Just wait until Turkey get full EU membership. The Polish arent even the tip of the Iceberg.
IF USA/Canda/Australia opened their borders tomorrow.. with the "promise" of housing, State benefits, help to find work, etc.
how many british would jump ship?
Id be first on the f**king plane. The world needs poor countries, undeveloped countries just like the UK needs a class system.
Quote from: KunalIm all for it.
Look at the US - a union of states with each retaining their identity and right to determine law.
I think its a great model. You wont see Alabama going to war with New York, just like we wont see Germany invade France again.
But they have somthing that binds the countries. A single currency.
Do you really think that could work in the UK?
10 cents for a loaf of bread in Romania & 1 Euro in say Germany?
It wouldnt be allowed.
I very much doubt you would find such a high cost of living difference in the USA.
Quote from: EggtasticoQuote from: KunalIm all for it.
Look at the US - a union of states with each retaining their identity and right to determine law.
I think its a great model. You wont see Alabama going to war with New York, just like we wont see Germany invade France again.
But they have somthing that binds the countries. A single currency.
Do you really think that could work in the UK?
10 cents for a loaf of bread in Romania & 1 Euro in say Germany?
It wouldnt be allowed.
I very much doubt you would find such a high cost of living difference in the USA.
a) Its worth remember the Euro hasnt crumbled like a lot of people thought it would - were almost coming up to a decade of its use in 2009. Im not saying its perfectly setup, any such endeavor will have teething problems, but I dont see a problem in joining single currency.
b) Cost of goods is largely determined by firstly manufacturing costs and secondly locale; cost of transportation, local taxes, cost of hiring the area required to sell the item. It doesnt suprise me that bread might be cheaper to get to market in Romania than in Germany, just like its probably cheaper in Bradford than in Chelsea. Youll find that pretty much everywhere (outside a Communist country).
You wont find such a price difference in the USA because the States started on more of an equal footing when they formed their Union. That isnt the case with the EU, but that doesnt mean its doomed. Thats the whole point of the system, itll balance itself out over time - prices will rise in Romania (with standard of living) while drop for such items in Germany (because they can be produced where its cheapest and shipped in without extortionate tax costs because its within the Union.)
Initially a lot of Polish people went to the UK to work but Poland is now developing fast and they are starting to move back.
Quote from: bearInitially a lot of Polish people went to the UK to work but Poland is now developing fast and they are starting to move back.
and wheres that money coming from to develop them?
Next in queue will be bulgaria, czech, slovakia, romania, turkey, albania & any other former red curtain country you want to add.
well sweden UK etc. have to high standard of living and we need to share some of it as we got it by stealing from poor countries in the first place.
Quote from: Kunala) Its worth remember the Euro hasnt crumbled like a lot of people thought it would - were almost coming up to a decade of its use in 2009. Im not saying its perfectly setup, any such endeavor will have teething problems, but I dont see a problem in joining single currency.
It hasnt crumbled no. It did put the price for a lot of items up though - as business round prices up rather than down. - Look at Petrol. 1p tax = 2p price hike. Why? Because 1p + Vat = 1.175p. Shell / Tesco / BP aint going to pay that.. instead its passed on to the consumer who pays 2p. That way Shell / Tesco / BP not only cover the 1p tax increase + the VAT ontop, they make an extra .825p
Quote from: Kunalb) Cost of goods is largely determined by firstly manufacturing costs and secondly locale; cost of transportation, local taxes, cost of hiring the area required to sell the item. It doesnt suprise me that bread might be cheaper to get to market in Romania than in Germany, just like its probably cheaper in Bradford than in Chelsea. Youll find that pretty much everywhere (outside a Communist country).
I would guess the price difference between bradford & chelsea would be nearer the price of germany. I would assume the price in Romania a lot less.. probably at least 1/2, maybe a 3rd - but a lot of that would depend on Bio Fuel. Currently it makes our bread expensive as farmers are switching to sell their grain to them, meaning theres a shortage of grain to make into bread. - Not sure what its like in Romania.
Quote from: KunalYou wont find such a price difference in the USA because the States started on more of an equal footing when they formed their Union. That isnt the case with the EU, but that doesnt mean its doomed. Thats the whole point of the system, itll balance itself out over time - prices will rise in Romania (with standard of living) while drop for such items in Germany (because they can be produced where its cheapest and shipped in without extortionate tax costs because its within the Union.)
I am not saying the EU is doomed. I am saying we are doomed. Maybe it will level itself out - well, it should in time over theory, but we would risk an over developed world. Just look at the emergence of China in the last 10 years. Were all paying for that on the fuel pumps & other raw materials like wood, copper, steel, etc.
If everyone had the same standards of living & all able to afford things like Cars, latest TVs, Broadband, etc. Prices would skyrocket.
Now I have no idea the amount of Car owners in a % there are in countries like Turkey, Romania, Poland (as examples).
In the UK & Germany combined, we are looking at near 80million cars.
Population of UK & Germany added together, equal that of Turkey, Romania & Poland. - What do you think thats going to do when Cars become more affordable to them? You get approx 20 gallons of Petrol from a Barrel of Oil.. Currently priced at about £45 a barrel.
Quote from: bearwell sweden UK etc. have to high standard of living and we need to share some of it as we got it by stealing from poor countries in the first place.
And whats a good standard of living include?
Good selections of food & drink?
Central Heating?
Cars / Transport?
There needs to be a Pyramid system. There needs to be developed, developing & 3rd world countries.
If theres to many developed countries, then natural resources will be used more & used up quicker. Both will increase demand & the later increase prices.
Quote from: EggtasticoI very much doubt you would find such a high cost of living difference in the USA.
Yes you do! Here in PA you pay way way more than in Delware and NJ for alcohol. This is because PA state govt controls alcohol sales and sets the prices. In delaware and NJ they dont. Philadelphia is only a few minutes from both Delware and NJ and people nip across the state border for christmas booze. You are paying £5 for a bottle of wine that is £3 elsewhere.
Fireworks are illegal in NJ. You cannot buy them. People from NJ nip across the border to PA to get fireworks for Christmas.
Another example is sales tax. PA is 6%, 7% in Philly centre, and 0% in delaware. Wanna buy a new TV for Christmas? Nip across the state border and save.
And the biggest example is property. In the north east its quite expensive, around the same as buying in the north of england. Go down to Alabama and they are giving houses away. Because the southern states are similar to our Eastern European countries - way poorer.
Quote from: EggtasticoQuote from: bearInitially a lot of Polish people went to the UK to work but Poland is now developing fast and they are starting to move back.
and wheres that money coming from to develop them?
Next in queue will be bulgaria, czech, slovakia, romania, turkey, albania & any other former red curtain country you want to add.
Countries can become richer without others becoming poorer.
The cake can become bigger. That is capitalism.
If you were correct, then we would all still be farmers.
Quote from: SamQuote from: EggtasticoI very much doubt you would find such a high cost of living difference in the USA.
Yes you do! Here in PA you pay way way more than in Delware and NJ for alcohol. This is because PA state govt controls alcohol sales and sets the prices. In delaware and NJ they dont. Philadelphia is only a few minutes from both Delware and NJ and people nip across the state border for christmas booze. You are paying £5 for a bottle of wine that is £3 elsewhere.
Fireworks are illegal in NJ. You cannot buy them. People from NJ nip across the border to PA to get fireworks for Christmas.
Another example is sales tax. PA is 6%, 7% in Philly centre, and 0% in delaware. Wanna buy a new TV for Christmas? Nip across the state border and save.
And the biggest example is property. In the north east its quite expensive, around the same as buying in the north of england. Go down to Alabama and they are giving houses away. Because the southern states are similar to our Eastern European countries - way poorer.
Try doing it without using alcohol as an example. Alcohol is a huge generator in Tax.
Try maybe, Bread, Milk, Sugar, Coffee, Vegetables, etc.
Sales tax is down to individual states. Its difficult to compare states of america to the nations of the EU. House prices are priced on Demand.
The UK is small country with big population, hence our house prices are so high.
Quote from: SamQuote from: EggtasticoQuote from: bearInitially a lot of Polish people went to the UK to work but Poland is now developing fast and they are starting to move back.
and wheres that money coming from to develop them?
Next in queue will be bulgaria, czech, slovakia, romania, turkey, albania & any other former red curtain country you want to add.
Countries can become richer without others becoming poorer.
The cake can become bigger. That is capitalism.
If you were correct, then we would all still be farmers.
That has nothing at all to do with what your quoting me for.
Simple fact is, the more developed nations we have, the higher demand for goods & services. The trees will need to be chopped down for furniture, the more Ore will be needed for Iron, Steel, Copper products. The more Oil will be needed for Fuel, Heating & Electric.
Like ive said, Our fuel prices are high because of the Emergence of China - The War thats going on does have an affect, but if the war ended tomorrow, prices wouldnt fall back to where they was before all this gulf nonsense started.
India & China both have populations of over 1 billion (1,000 million) Each.
The Whole of Europe is about 750 million & Africa is about 1 billion also.
India & China are developing faster than anyone else.
Probably where we at now is that around 1.5 billion (my estimates) live in world where we have choices for groceries, buy what clothing we like, Cars, heated homes, etc. - Fully Developed Nations.
In 10-20 years when the rest of Eastern Europe catch up along with the vast majority of russia, india, china, turkey, etc. we would be looking at nearer 5 billion. more than 3 folds where we are now. plus the billion or so still left in africa who are also bound to develop out of 3rd world poverty & into the 2nd world.
Do you think the planet has the resources for that? if were paying £1 a litre now for 1.5billion people... whats not to say well be paying the equivelent of £3 a litre when theres 5billion wanting the fuel?
Who cares if we have to pay £3 a litre. We can switch to electric cars tomorrow if we had to.
Quote from: EggtasticoTry maybe, Bread, Milk, Sugar, Coffee, Vegetables, etc.
Sales tax is down to individual states. Its difficult to compare states of america to the nations of the EU. House prices are priced on Demand.
The UK is small country with big population, hence our house prices are so high.
Bread and milk in the usa is far more expensive than in the UK (my experience is limited to PA though but its not a particularly expensive state). They dont have any real supermarket competition.
Its like $1.80 for the crappest loaf of supermarket own bread (and a tiny loaf at that). $3.69 I paid for a loaf from the bakery section.
but throughout the USA they are priced more or less the same give or take a few cents?
Or is the difference as much as it would be between the UK & say Romania?
But Bread is on the rise worldwide because of Bio Fuel. Farmers are getting more for their grain for Bio companies than they are from those who want to turn it into flour.
UK and Romania is a bad example. Youve picked two ends of the scale, and romania has only been in the EU for 1 year (not even). Give it 10 years and see. Like Czech - their prices are becoming in line with ours now.
Quote from: SamUK and Romania is a bad example. Youve picked two ends of the scale, and romania has only been in the EU for 1 year (not even). Give it 10 years and see. Like Czech - their prices are becoming in line with ours now.
which is exactly my point... Where is the money going to come from for Romania to develop?
Where has the money come from for Czech Republic to develop? FWIW, their prices are nowhere near ours. £1.50 for a pint of stella in Prague 1. Equivelent place in the UK would cost £3.50
Quotewhich is exactly my point... Where is the money going to come from for Romania to develop?
Where has the money come from for Czech Republic to develop? FWIW, their prices are nowhere near ours. £1.50 for a pint of stella in Prague 1. Equivelent place in the UK would cost £3.50
You can still get a good pint of beer in Prague for 50p
That said they are the highest consumers of beer in the world and they have loads of breweries in and around the city so you would expect the beer prices to be lower.
Quote from: PaulusYou can still get a good pint of beer in Prague for 50p
That said they are the highest consumers of beer in the world and they have loads of breweries in and around the city so you would expect the beer prices to be lower.
Yup, Budvar.. The stuff Budweiser ripped off. Though not many places in Praha 1 sell it for 50p. Certainly out in other parts of prague.
Prauge is expensive but the northen cities have cheap and tasty beer.
Staropramen, Pilsner Urquell and krusovice
Its still not that hard to get a pint for 50p in Prague 1 just dont go into a bar that says Australian bar, Irish Bar or English bar.
Quote from: PaulusStaropramen, Pilsner Urquell and krusovice
Its still not that hard to get a pint for 50p in Prague 1 just dont go into a bar that says Australian bar, Irish Bar or English bar.
I tend to go to legends at 10am for breakfast. Have a few pints, watch the early KO football. More Food, Watch the afternoon KO football, few more pints & leave at around 8pm.Few hours in Rocky O Reileys with Beer & some more food & then off to the Club by St Charles Bridge, Club Lavka & the big on the corner that has numerous levels & dance floors - Lazne?? (or I got those 2 names mixed up).
Roll in at 6am & still have change from £50
Hmmmm could make a pretty packet with a Kebab shop around there.
http://www.legends.czhttp://www.rockyoreillys.czhttp://www.lavka.czhttp://www.karlovylazne.cz
personally I think it is a load of bollocks
even taking the US example - somewhere like California would do just as well if not better if they were a separate country with a similar trade agreement with the rest of the US as Canad has.
Switzerland is hardly suffering as result of it not being in the EU either.
Im fine with having a free trade agreement and freedom of movement but I think a lot of the rest of European integration is a waste of time.
The idea that a european court can overrule our own laws in certain cases is pretty damn patronizing - we are basically saying that the most senior judges we can find still ought to have some over watch from a bunch of foreign judges.
The moves by some EU members towards some EU financial regulator to replace those of the member states would completely undermine the UKs interests - The UK has by far the biggest financial sector in Europe and London is arguably the financial capital of the world. Weve achieved this through having fairly sensible regulations and a pretty efficient principles based system overseen by the FSA - the sorts of regulations that the EU would no doubt bring into place could end up with the same effect that the US govt had when they introduced the Sox rules.
An EU defense force would also be a disaster & no doubt one wed have to pay for given that (aside from the French involvement in Africa) were the only EU nation that actually makes any large scale military deployments, various EU states (despite their already being European formations present within NATO) have already gone back on their promises of troops for Afghanistan leaving the UK to pick up the slack.
Single currency is also a bit wank for the UK to bother with- I dont believe our economies are that well aligned and sterling does pretty well by itself thank you very much &
we really dont need some ECB setting interest rates that suit the majority when they may or may not suit us as a nation at that particular point in time. Tis a joke wed basically get a representative who may or may not exert some influence and then if we happen to be going through a period of high inflation but the majority have inflation under control well be the ones getting screwed.
Quote from: EggtasticoQuote from: SamUK and Romania is a bad example. Youve picked two ends of the scale, and romania has only been in the EU for 1 year (not even). Give it 10 years and see. Like Czech - their prices are becoming in line with ours now.
which is exactly my point... Where is the money going to come from for Romania to develop?
Where has the money come from for Czech Republic to develop? FWIW, their prices are nowhere near ours. £1.50 for a pint of stella in Prague 1. Equivelent place in the UK would cost £3.50
Dunno where you went to pay £3.50. Its under £2 at the local where I used to live.
Quote from: EggtasticoQuote from: PaulusStaropramen, Pilsner Urquell and krusovice
Its still not that hard to get a pint for 50p in Prague 1 just dont go into a bar that says Australian bar, Irish Bar or English bar.
I tend to go to legends at 10am for breakfast. Have a few pints, watch the early KO football. More Food, Watch the afternoon KO football, few more pints & leave at around 8pm.Few hours in Rocky O Reileys with Beer & some more food & then off to the Club by St Charles Bridge, Club Lavka & the big on the corner that has numerous levels & dance floors - Lazne?? (or I got those 2 names mixed up).
Roll in at 6am & still have change from £50
Hmmmm could make a pretty packet with a Kebab shop around there.
http://www.legends.cz
http://www.rockyoreillys.cz
http://www.lavka.cz
http://www.karlovylazne.cz
Are you thinking of Lucerne music bar ?
Anyway, if you go to rocky o rileys or shamrock or the lion bar you are asking to be ripped off !
Quote from: Davewe really dont need some ECB setting interest rates that suit the majority when they may or may not suit us as a nation at that particular point in time. Tis a joke wed basically get a representative who may or may not exert some influence and then if we happen to be going through a period of high inflation but the majority have inflation under control well be the ones getting screwed.
You could say the same about London vs the rest of the country.
Quote from: DaveThe idea that a european court can overrule our own laws in certain cases is pretty damn patronizing - we are basically saying that the most senior judges we can find still ought to have some over watch from a bunch of foreign judges.
Why is it patronising? No one in the states thinks its strange that a supreme court can overrule a state court. And the state might be 3500 miles away from the supreme court.
And the foreign judges could well be English anyway! Theyre selected from Europe (which we are a member of last time I looked on a map). And your very comment perfectly shows my point - the very word Europe to you (And it seems most people in the country) means the mainland continent as if Britain is somehow isolated.
Quote from: EggtasticoQuote from: SamUK and Romania is a bad example. Youve picked two ends of the scale, and romania has only been in the EU for 1 year (not even). Give it 10 years and see. Like Czech - their prices are becoming in line with ours now.
which is exactly my point... Where is the money going to come from for Romania to develop?
Where has the money come from for Czech Republic to develop?
You seem to labour under a misunderstanding that for a county to develop it has to take money away from another country. The UK is doing very well at the moment, it hasnt suffered by the rise of the east. It has gained - these countries need more of our services and we are only to happy to provide financial, telecoms and software to them.
Quote from: SamQuote from: Davewe really dont need some ECB setting interest rates that suit the majority when they may or may not suit us as a nation at that particular point in time. Tis a joke wed basically get a representative who may or may not exert some influence and then if we happen to be going through a period of high inflation but the majority have inflation under control well be the ones getting screwed.
You could say the same about London vs the rest of the country.
hardly - there is a big wealth gap certainly and a difference in house prices but I dont see a massive economic need to start calculating CPI on a regional basis
Perhaps you could explain what you think the benefits of further integration into Europe are?
Weve got free trade and freedom of movement, NATO already exists...
IMO a lot of the EU just constitutes an extra layer of bureaucracy that we really have no need for.
What benefits would an EU defence force have? Why is a European court more beneficial than forming our own supreme court (if the house of lords is not deemed good enough)?
Working further towards EU integration just means giving up more control over our own affairs.
I think the world has currently one superpower. The USA. I think in 20 years the world will have 3 superpowers. China, India and the USA.
the world is gonna laugh at England. We need to become USE to compete.
Quote from: SamQuote from: EggtasticoQuote from: PaulusStaropramen, Pilsner Urquell and krusovice
Its still not that hard to get a pint for 50p in Prague 1 just dont go into a bar that says Australian bar, Irish Bar or English bar.
I tend to go to legends at 10am for breakfast. Have a few pints, watch the early KO football. More Food, Watch the afternoon KO football, few more pints & leave at around 8pm.Few hours in Rocky O Reileys with Beer & some more food & then off to the Club by St Charles Bridge, Club Lavka & the big on the corner that has numerous levels & dance floors - Lazne?? (or I got those 2 names mixed up).
Roll in at 6am & still have change from £50
Hmmmm could make a pretty packet with a Kebab shop around there.
http://www.legends.cz
http://www.rockyoreillys.cz
http://www.lavka.cz
http://www.karlovylazne.cz
Are you thinking of Lucerne music bar ?
Anyway, if you go to rocky o rileys or shamrock or the lion bar you are asking to be ripped off !
nope, not lucerne.
Lavka & Karlovy lazne are both by the bridge - they back onto the bridge -
Legends is some small place in the old town, but do lovely food & show all the football without being full of mongs.
Go to Rockys because they have sky sports, so we can catch up on the days sporting results, have a few happy hour cocktails before heading to the clubs.
Quote from: SamI think the world has currently one superpower. The USA. I think in 20 years the world will have 3 superpowers. China, India and the USA.
the world is gonna laugh at England. We need to become USE to compete.
compete at what?
weve already got free trade with Europe, were already in NATO
what good does an extra layer of beurocracy do us
Canad isnt part of the US but is fine, Switzerland isnt part of the EU and is also fine - I really dont see any benifits
NATO is obselete.
I am talking about trade deals with the other blocks. For example if it hadnt been for Europe we wouldnt have gotten an open skies agreement this summer.
NATO and Europe do not equal the same thing though. NATO...Good... UN... pointless... Europe, well it makes money for companies having to kit out british banks and companies in order to trade under SEPA.
Quote from: SamI am talking about trade deals with the other blocks. For example if it hadnt been for Europe we wouldnt have gotten an open skies agreement this summer.
yep and Ive already said that Im in favour of trade deals within the EU frame work
what Im asking is how further integration in other areas is of any benefit to us?
Quote from: EggtasticoQuote from: SamUK and Romania is a bad example. Youve picked two ends of the scale, and romania has only been in the EU for 1 year (not even). Give it 10 years and see. Like Czech - their prices are becoming in line with ours now.
Where has the money come from for Czech Republic to develop? FWIW, their prices are nowhere near ours. £1.50 for a pint of stella in Prague 1. Equivelent place in the UK would cost £3.50
The money will, in a very large part, come from public investors and companies who will be repaid over time with interest. They dont do it for charitable purposes.
As I havent actually read the new agreement yet Im not commenting on it.
Quote from: DaveQuote from: SamI am talking about trade deals with the other blocks. For example if it hadnt been for Europe we wouldnt have gotten an open skies agreement this summer.
yep and Ive already said that Im in favour of trade deals within the EU frame work
what Im asking is how further integration in other areas is of any benefit to us?
Well Im in favour of a united states of europe. Wed all be richer for it as we would be the worlds biggest economy and the euro would then be the worlds strongest currency. We could throw our weight about to get better deals, like the US does now.
Quote from: SamQuote from: DaveQuote from: SamI am talking about trade deals with the other blocks. For example if it hadnt been for Europe we wouldnt have gotten an open skies agreement this summer.
yep and Ive already said that Im in favour of trade deals within the EU frame work
what Im asking is how further integration in other areas is of any benefit to us?
Well Im in favour of a united states of europe. Wed all be richer for it as we would be the worlds biggest economy and the euro would then be the worlds strongest currency. We could throw our weight about to get better deals, like the US does now.
We didnt sign up to the Euro because that would make us have to use a currency that the Bank of England could not manipulate to maintain the governments targets. It would have been unsuitable for the UK and has proved difficult for other European countries.
However I did have a good laugh at an American going on about the European countries giving up soverenty on BBC news 24. This seemed to ba against the whole American ethos.
The Euro is a very strong currency. Even Sorres or Buffet (one of them) said its likely to replace the dollar long term.
Quote from: SamThe Euro is a very strong currency. Even Sorres or Buffet (one of them) said its likely to replace the dollar long term.
Doubt it.. The yanks will just roll in the troops, like they have done with the middle east because they was going to switch oil prices to euro.
QuoteDoubt it.. The yanks will just roll in the troops, like they have done with the middle east because they was going to switch oil prices to euro.
LOL (...I hope your not serious)
/looks in mirror
Nope, hes definitely not me ;)
Quote from: SamNATO is obselete.
Not quite yet, they are doing some good work in Bosnia and the way its looking there may be another cold war with Russia eventually. Putin is going out of his way to create a new form of elected dictatorship.
ATM its rather more effective at fighting than the UN sodgers.
(soldiers spelt wrong on purpose)
un soldiers do crazy things which your not prepared to do. until you do, your position to critique their job is unjustified.
Quote from: SamQuote from: DaveQuote from: SamI am talking about trade deals with the other blocks. For example if it hadnt been for Europe we wouldnt have gotten an open skies agreement this summer.
yep and Ive already said that Im in favour of trade deals within the EU frame work
what Im asking is how further integration in other areas is of any benefit to us?
Well Im in favour of a united states of europe. Wed all be richer for it as we would be the worlds biggest economy and the euro would then be the worlds strongest currency. We could throw our weight about to get better deals, like the US does now.
we are fine being a member of the EU - the EU is already perfectly capable of negotiating trade agreements - you dont need to be a united states of europe to achieve that - as for the single currency - that wouldnt be in our interests at all IMO
How would "we" (being you & I) be richer in a united europe?
Are Poland, Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania suddenly up their wealth to match ours? or will it go the way the UK has been going by dropping everything that appeals to the lowest common denominator????