Americans get over-emotional at the best of times and now theyve had an oil spill in their own back yard rather than the niger delta etc.. theyre all upset...

Seems BP may well have made a few mistakes here but also it seems there are others to blame, BP has a 65% stake in the oil well and as the main owner is responsible for the clean up - this isnt a problem - theyre a huge company (so huge theyre not fussed about self insuring for this stuff) and they have the resources to do this - obv it will take time but theyve said from the start theyll clean the mess up.

There are others to blame though, Haliburton (US firm) was responsible for some dodgy concrete on the blowout preventer, another US firm for the blowout preventer itself and Transocean was contracted to run the rig - theyre all blaming each other for stuff and until there is a proper investigation we dont know for sure who was to blame - the regulators also play a part in this too tbh...

All the press reporting in the US seems to be ignoring this and focusing on BP - or rather as the Obama administration is calling it:  "British Petroleum"

BP is called BP it hasnt been "British Petroleum" for a decade since it merged with US firm Amoco
40% of BP shares are held in the UK, about another 40% are held in the US - it is very much an anglo-american company
BP employs 10,000 workers in the UK and more than 20,000 in the US
It is registered in London so is a officially UK company and that, in part, seems to be the reason for the flack

US public is hysterical and Obama, already losing popularity, can point at a foreign entity and basically say theyre to blame for all this...

The reality is he should be fortunate that this happened when a large multinational like BP owned a 65% stake in the well - if it had been a smaller company they very likely wouldnt have the resources to deal with the cleanup and might well have gone bust before they could meet any compensation claims.

Its now getting to the point where theyre interfering with the dividend payment and making unreasonable demands like BP should compensate other oil companies because the US govt has decided to impose a 6 month ban on new drilling. Its not up to the US govt to decide whether a company pays a dividend and its not up to BP to compensate its rivals either...

Cameron needs to step up and start fighting BPs corner here - Obama isnt doing the US any favour by helping to wipe billions off BPs share price - BP are the ones paying for the cleanup, BP employ thousands of people there and many other jobs rely on BPs operations - the verbal rhetoric is basically an attempt to win popular support by picking on the foreign scape goat

I was going to say, just what % of workers are actually British, for BP?

Maybe Cameron should ask Obama for compensation for the American trawlers contributing to the depletion of fish stocks in British waters ><

Wasnt it the American finance that kick started the recession? Boo, hiss, Americans are evil as theyre American, like the American finance sector ><

No doubt therell be similar claims over there, including some calling for Obama to invade and take control of Britain so us Limeys dont do this again...

agree... but you do have to wonder whats taking so long to fix the pipe.

the company have had enough chances to fix.

Its us who will end up paying for it... out fuel prices arent going to drop anytime soon
& basically the UK goverment should do more to help as its BP thats practically propping up
the whole UK pension fund (well at least 20% of it).

As for the pipe, the last thing I read was that they are trying to put a cap over it...
no idea what the latest plan/idea is.

Quote from: zpyderNo doubt therell be similar claims over there, including some calling for Obama to invade and take control of Britain so us Limeys dont do this again...

that might not be a bad thing...
id move to sunnier climates as a new american citizen..

Looking on the bright side, if BP shares drop, isnt that a good time to buy them, as no doubt once this "blows over" theyll go up again?

Agree with what Dave says.
This blame game stuff really pisses me off. I read on the BBC site that while BP owns the rig (or some of it) the blow out preventer thing that failed was installed and maintained by a contractor (that Haliburton i think) and then another contractor was also involved somewhere else (ive forgotten the specifics).
Now to me, it seems clear that seeing as the BOP failed, which Haliburton are responsible for, they should take the majority of the blame. But of course theyre saying that as its BPs rig then BP is to blame. Where does it stop? I mean, could it keep rolling on towards, say, blaming america for the audacity of letting BP drill there?? I know thats obviously a completely unrealistic outcome, but I hope im able to get my point across.

(If ive not explained it that well could someone tell me. I hate it when Im not able to adequately explain stuff + jumble things up)

Now Im not saying that BP should be blame free. Obviously as its their rig they should take some responsibility and in fact are with their clean up efforts, but I havent seen the other companies involved doing anything apart from passing the buck.

Dave - If what you say about Obama pinning all the blame on a foreign company (BP) is true, then this troubles me.
Im not sure what to say about it to be honest. It just seems a piss poor potshot at BP just because theyre not American.
I wonder what wouldve happened if it was an American oil company running the platform with a British contractor responsible for the BOP.

I also imagine that the US News media is having a field day with it, they really seem to enjoy whipping up mass hysteria, and with Obama blaming BP they can all call for a huge public outcry and mass condemnation, not to mention the scaremongering they all seem to love doing over there.

Another thing, surely Obama is shooting himself in the foot with his blame game? Even if the official investigation clears them of major wrongdoing, the damage will already have been done by the media and himself, people wont want to work for BP and they wont want BP in their country, which means job cuts, job losses, maybe even a massive reduction of their footprint in the US. Thatd put even more strain on their social services. Theyd have highly skilled chemists, engineers etc out of a job, with the prospect of not being able to find work because of the 6 month ban on new drilling. AND then when they do find a job, it might very well be outside of the US, so theyd lose income tax from the newly redundant.

It just doesnt make any sense to me at all. But then again, Im not a politician.

I can see the point about the contractors etc, but at the same time I can also see the argument that if BP owns the rig, its their duty to ensure their contractors are up to the job, vicarious liability and all that jazz.

It would be entertaining if some inquiry went and published a report internationally that basically said "american parts installed and maintained by americans failed and are responsible", but even if this happened, I doubt itd feed back into america that well. It does make you wonder how much international news we get is tailored to suit the govt/countries agenda.

I cant believe that BP are allowing themselves to be bullied by the US administration. They where not directly responsible for what happened, an American contractor was in charge of the operation, and have taken up the attempted repair and cleanup and compensation of it all at HUGE cost ($20+ BILLION) to themselves and their share holders (of which are alot of normal hard working people in the UK)


Im pretty sure oil companies like BP are more powerfull that even the superpower countries, so they should be showing the US that they wil sort the problem out but also that they wont be taking any crap and the reaction from congress and Obummer are completly out of order (oil spill just like 9/11, f**king stupid Americans!)

how would the US cope if BP stopping suppling oil to them?

Quote from: DEViANCEI cant believe that BP are allowing themselves to be bullied by the US administration.

your not drilling on american soil again...

enough of a reason to allow themselves to be buillied?

Quote from: Dave-snip-

Dave, I stole your post and pasted it onto a American diy-combined heat and power forum


glad I told them Id copied and pasted it..... I think theyd have banned me if they thought it was mine.... they were less than impressed

Can you not link to the forum so we can see the trolling reaction?

Quote from: zpyderCan you not link to the forum so we can see the trolling reaction?

i would, but theyre nuts about spammers..... you can only see the forum if youre a member, and you have to be recommended and then wait to be accepted.... it took me a month to get access !

worst thing is, its a load of crap, most Americans are pretty thick

Copy paste the best responses then

lol.... I just went to copy it.... but the thread has been moved into the mods only area....

but the board admin did put up a post about it....

Quotebecause no matter how careful i try to be, i end up pissing off somebody.

heres the deal guys,

we are all adults, we come from various backgrounds, and have diverse political views, but
we know we can all agree on a few things, those being what this forum is all about.

we can agree and work together on micro cogeneration projects, we can even choose to join the new SOMRAD group
and focus our efforts on something very useful, or we can pick sides and throw rocks, kick sand and generally just upset each
other.  this btw seems counter productive to me,, and generally does not aid in our progress.

i dont know for sure, but i am reasonable certain that there are ultra liberal and right wing extremists all working together in concert
at NASA and they manage to do great things in spite of the underlying differences.

this is not to say that we as a group could put a man on the moon, but we ought to be able to do some really interesting and useful work
on micro cogeneration, following the working model of others such as NASA.  never having worked for NASA or any other large corp, therefore
i am not sure, but my bet is "ones" politics are either best left at the door or they are mandated to do so.

recently as most know we have developed the R&D group (SOMRAD) and are partnered with the EPA for our work on micro cogeneration
(combined heat and power) work, and i am not about to allow this place to slide into some pissing match that makes us look like something less
than what we really are, or could be as a group.

there are some of us that have put a lot of time and effort into the development of this board, its ongoing maintenance, and the EPA partnership

we either take a different approach "now" or some changes will be made that will surely piss off somebody here, and quite frankly i dont care who gets POd as long as we can continue to make progress toward our goals.

we shouldnt need moderators to referee verbal fights, moderators job should primarily be cleaning up the posts, moving as needed, splitting topics for clarity, and a host of other things that are of use to clarify and improve the flow of information.

please think about what i have written here, and bear in mind i am not without sin in this regard, i too have a political opinion on just about everything and i too need to curb my need to argue my politics on this forum.

heaven knows there are ample forums on the web to go to and argue politics till you turn blue and pass out.

so lets get back to what we do best, that is working together to accomplish a set of goals, i personally cannot think of a better group of guys to work with, even though we might not see eye to eye on everything.

and also lest i forget, i do not want to lose anyone because they dont feel comfortable or feel alienated. Further there will be an effort to contact those that became members but have dropped out for whatever reason to see if we can get them to come back and take another look at the forum and the direction we are heading. the last thing we need is for them to come back to more of the same that drove them off to start with

and these are the replies it got....

QuoteYes bob you are right I will never talk politics on this forum again only CHP

QuoteJust wondering....
If this site is devoted to CHP, engines, thermodynamics, and mechanics, ...why have spot for politics at all?
There are probably hundreds of sites where a person can go to debate politics.

QuoteIm with Crumpite.  Ive seen several boards ruined by political bickering, even when its kept to a "special" area.  My sense is that it undermines the sense of community and creates an "us vs. them" mentality.  Then when someone gets tired of being on the receiving end of what is often just political trolling and objects, theyre met with screams of "free speech!", "intolerance!", "thin skin!", and "political correctness!"  To me, its not political correctness, its just plain old common courtesy and civility.  Dont insult your host, and dont insult his other guests.  Theres a time and place for everything, and the place for political bickering would be a political website (and I guess over there, the time would be "always." ;-)  Its no different than having VI vs. Emacs arguments here, or Ford vs. Chevy arguments on a Linux development forum, or arguments about Listeroids vs Petteroids on Huffington Post.

the best ones were in the moved thread.... but I cant get to that any more


it was all fine when they were brit bashing..... but one (cut and past) post from me and it all went to hell



its a pity they closed it so quick, its a pretty crappy forum so Im not bothered if I get banned....

I wanted to bring up the American company Union carbide and the Bhopal gas plant disaster where thousands died and many are still suffering - union carbide strung they along for 7 years until they were so desperate the Indian government accepted $470million out of court with no acceptance of liability - and full immunity from future prosecution

and this too http://www.incidentnews.gov/incident/6250 - Pemex claimed sovereign immunity and walked away

also, during the Vietnam war 10% of Vietnam was sprayed with ~72million litres of chemicals - about 2/3 of that was agent orange  and theres an estimated 650,000 ill/disabled/etc people alive today because of it !



tho i think that would have caused a meltdown

http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11208

this thread on a sprinter van forum is even better.... everything from, god is smiting us all because of gay people, to its a big government conspiracy designed to push up fuel prices !



oh and they want to fix it by nukeing it too