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schools are crap.

i got 60% attendance in my last year of school and similar in college(probably less) and got straight As in my GCSEs and AS levels.

got bored to death and never bothered doing my a levels.

Quote from: DEViANCEschools are crap.

i got 60% attendance in my last year of school and similar in college(probably less) and got straight As in my GCSEs and AS levels.

got bored to death and never bothered doing my a levels.

I got bored at 14. didnt even bother sitting my GCSEs as I had no interest in doing A levels or going to Uni.

Bummed around college doing various sh*t courses for 2 years, then signed on the dole for a year before getting a job in IT.

10years later I earn more than my mates who went the full hog through Uni.

Would be good if the education system could cope with those who are destined to go onto "thinking" jobs and those better suited to "doing" jobs. Well never get away from the fact that we need both, and that some people are better suited to one than the other, but so far we seem to have made next to no effort to recognise that in our education system.

Quote from: BigSoyWould be good if the education system could cope with those who are destined to go onto "thinking" jobs and those better suited to "doing" jobs.

well it used to - back when there were secondary moderns and grammar schools - main problem being that they didnt properly fund the secondary moderns and so created an unfair two tier system.

Comprehensives are a bit of a bodge job - it can work if youve got streaming and people are placed in separate sets with the ability to move up or down a set at the end of each year - otherwise the school is simply failing the bright kids and the thick kids while treating everyone as average.

The best way to earn a good living is to get a good education - however this is a false economy for some now - shelling out 15k to get a BA in media studies could well turn out to have been a waste of time when the same person could have been working as a runner/researcher for 3 years earning a salary and making contacts in the media sector. On the opposite end of the scale a medical, law or engineering degree can pay for itself many times over.

some people in govt seem to have an obsession with treating people as though they are all the same - the aim to get 50% into higher education is a joke and just leads to joke courses

There are also plenty of areas where people who arent very good academically can still do reasonably well - as egg has pointed out there are areas within IT where people can still basically perform what is a highly skilled manual job etc.. & dont really need to have a degree.

The most people you ever need through degree level is thirty percent, if you shove more through then you are just wasting your and their time and money.

Its also best to limit courses to what is actually needed, we dont need thousands of astrophysicists but we do need people trained in other areas.

By teaching and training people to their best you give them a chance to prove themselves, unfortunately with the UKs present situation it tends to penalise the best and equally the worst as Dave says.

Second to this there is also a mentality that learning in school is a waste of time. Egg spent a load of time not learning in school and then took college courses to catch up with where he should have been. If he had been taught properly the skills he needed at school then he wouldnt have needed to go to college at all. Same with his classmates.

Shoving more people into two more years of compulsory education isnt going to make things better either. The whole idea of education needs a rethink in the UK.

Quote from: DaveThe best way to earn a good living is to get a good education

My brother was in school when they done streaming & I was dumped in the bottom class. He was there with another guy.

Both of them now have propery portfolios large enough where they dont need to do a proper days work.

All school should teach is the Rs. Thats it.
Everything else should be left at a younger age to choices. Not at 14, but maybe at 12 where you actually study in what you want for 4 years, instead of just 2 to get you through a final exam.

For what its worth, I dont use PE, French, German, Biology, Phsics or history in my job. So WTF was the point in teaching them to me?
Ive never had to use Pie/trig since leaving school either. Or had to discuss the works of shakespear.

To much learning of irrelevent subjects. Would be much better used to teach people how to cook a proper nutrious meal from scratch, how to manage a budget for living, etc.

School doesnt teach you any everyday real life skills.

plenty of people dont really know what they want to do when they are say 13 + it isnt really a good thing to be ignorant so studying a broad range of subjects until GCSE level is a good thing IMO.

As for the education thing - a good education is probably the best way to do well earnings wise (if that is what you want). It is consistent for a start.

sure everyone can quote people who have done well without a great academic track record and sometimes economic conditions exist for people to do well in other ways - demand for certain IT skills, housing market rallying etc..

Though these people are exceptions rather than the rule; for everyone who was bottom set 16yr old school leaver and then went on to build up a huge buy to let portfolio etc... there are likely to be several others who are still taking the bins out or laying bricks etc..

Quote from: Daveplenty of people dont really know what they want to do when they are say 13 + it isnt really a good thing to be ignorant so studying a broad range of subjects until GCSE level is a good thing IMO.

As for the education thing - a good education is probably the best way to do well earnings wise (if that is what you want). It is consistent for a start.

sure everyone can quote people who have done well without a great academic track record and sometimes economic conditions exist for people to do well in other ways - demand for certain IT skills, housing market rallying etc..

Though these people are exceptions rather than the rule; for everyone who was bottom set 16yr old school leaver and then went on to build up a huge buy to let portfolio etc... there are likely to be several others who are still taking the bins out or laying bricks etc..

and people dont know what they want to at 16, let alone 13.
So it would be better for people to choose at younger age & they can make a change somwhere along the line incase it doesnt fit in or they plan changes.
When I had my choices, 2x subjects clashed that I wanted to do & I had to choose out of one block with nothing of interest in.
I made the wrong decision in both blocks looking back now.

Dont look down on labouring jobs, Im tempted to change career & look into plastering, simply because they are commanding a daily rate of £250+.

You get to be your own boss, work your own hours & pick n choose jobs if your in demand. A normal size room usually costs £400-£500 to plaster & it will take near enough 2 days to do a room.

These are jobs which aint cattered for in schools.

I would have loved to do courses like that. Plumber, Electrician, Plastering, bricklaying, roofer, etc.

As long as your good at it, you can easily earn as much as some of the better paid jobs.

Quote from: EggtasticoFor what its worth, I dont use PE, French, German, Biology, Phsics or history in my job. So WTF was the point in teaching them to me?
Ive never had to use Pie/trig since leaving school either. Or had to discuss the works of shakespear.

To much learning of irrelevent subjects. Would be much better used to teach people how to cook a proper nutrious meal from scratch, how to manage a budget for living, etc.

School doesnt teach you any everyday real life skills.

Mostly what I have said for a good bit, sports/PE is a good option though to keep kids fit.

Home economics, while seen as a girls subject, is at least as important for the lads too, probably more so as they dont get taught as much at home. Girls dont either though now.

QuoteDont look down on labouring jobs, Im tempted to change career & look into plastering, simply because they are commanding a daily rate of £250+.

You get to be your own boss, work your own hours & pick n choose jobs if your in demand. A normal size room usually costs £400-£500 to plaster & it will take near enough 2 days to do a room.

These are jobs which aint cattered for in schools.

I would have loved to do courses like that. Plumber, Electrician, Plastering, bricklaying, roofer, etc.

Would have to be a good plasterer to command that, and you would be expected to do a damn sight more than just one room in two days if you had worked for my Grandad!

He had mum working down a manhole while she was pregnant.

They certainly dont train people at school for those jobs, but TBH they dont teach them properly anywhere, he used to get peeps out of college and they were great bricklayers, providing you could give them six times the time my uncle needed to complete a job.

Quote from: SeriousWould have to be a good plasterer to command that, and you would be expected to do a damn sight more than just one room in two days if you had worked for my Grandad!

He had mum working down a manhole while she was pregnant.

They certainly dont train people at school for those jobs, but TBH they dont teach them properly anywhere, he used to get peeps out of college and they were great bricklayers, providing you could give them six times the time my uncle needed to complete a job.

you could plaster 2 rooms in 3 days.
Plaster wall 1, plaster wall 2 while wall 1 dries a bit, then back to wall 1, back to wall 2, etc.

You cant do a whole room in a day as you cant do adjoining walls nor ceilings. usually do 2 opposite walls, then 2 opposite walls in another room, then the 4 walls that are left the next day & finally the ceilings.

Obviously thats without breaking into a sweat -)

& if you think youd have to be a good plasterer to command that, then you are deluded. A good plasterer will charge anything from £9-£15 for a Sq M.

The Cash in hand cowboys usually just charge a lump fee.

Quote from: EggtasticoThese are jobs which aint cattered for in schools.

I would have loved to do courses like that. Plumber, Electrician, Plastering, bricklaying, roofer, etc.

As long as your good at it, you can easily earn as much as some of the better paid jobs.

which is a good argument to bring back at least some more grammar schools and re-introduce some of the old secondary moderns albeit with better funding.

there is certainly a skills shortage in certain areas too (partly due to people going for these new made up subjects such as media studies etc..)

some skilled manual jobs certainly do pay as well as *some* professions however part of the reason is lack of people who have those skills/are willing to train for that vocation.

Overall though the highest earners in our society are generally professionals - doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc.. and you generally do need to have a good education to become one

yes some top plumbers can earn 90k a year running their own firm  but a top accountant i.e. partner at an big accountancy firm will be bringing home more like 900k a year

Quote from: Daveyes some top plumbers can earn 90k a year running their own firm  but a top accountant i.e. partner at an big accountancy firm will be bringing home more like 900k a year

but you are going from one extreme to another.
I meant how many people waste time with uni, etc. & end up in careers where  the wages aint as good as a skilled labourers Job?

Only a small % get the well paid jobs that pay stupid money.
I would say £50k a year is a good wage for a lot of places in the UK.

Quote from: Eggtastico

Quote from: SeriousWould have to be a good plasterer to command that, and you would be expected to do a damn sight more than just one room in two days if you had worked for my Grandad!

He had mum working down a manhole while she was pregnant.

They certainly dont train people at school for those jobs, but TBH they dont teach them properly anywhere, he used to get peeps out of college and they were great bricklayers, providing you could give them six times the time my uncle needed to complete a job.

you could plaster 2 rooms in 3 days.
Plaster wall 1, plaster wall 2 while wall 1 dries a bit, then back to wall 1, back to wall 2, etc.

You cant do a whole room in a day as you cant do adjoining walls nor ceilings. usually do 2 opposite walls, then 2 opposite walls in another room, then the 4 walls that are left the next day & finally the ceilings.

Obviously thats without breaking into a sweat -)

& if you think youd have to be a good plasterer to command that, then you are deluded. A good plasterer will charge anything from £9-£15 for a Sq M.

The Cash in hand cowboys usually just charge a lump fee.

I have seen one do the whole end of a house in a morning, 4 hours. Thats more than the equivalent of four walls. Scoop plaster onto hawk, slap it on, smooth, move to next bit. Yours are probably lazy gits

Dont forget the cost of materials too.

Quote from: SeriousI have seen one do the whole end of a house in a morning, 4 hours. Thats more than the equivalent of four walls. Scoop plaster onto hawk, slap it on, smooth, move to next bit. Yours are probably lazy gits

Dont forget the cost of materials too.

So they didnt scrape off/sand any flakey paint / rough areas?
Treat with PVA solution before hand?

If you done a full hard days work, then you could probably rack through that many rooms if the stuff is just slapped on. You can get around the ceiling joins by putting up coving ;-)

In all seriousness, go get your self a quote for an average room say 4m x 3m. Be suprised if you can find someone for less than £250 excluding materials.

Most plasters prefer to just dab & board, thats piss easy, dab the board stick it to the wall, scrim tape the joins & go over with one-coat plaster. You probably could do 2 rooms a day then :-D