Ive got an Appraisal tomorrow at work, and need something to say to get more money TBH.

The story goes:
Last year, there was 4 Engineers (inc me) and an Engineering manager. One of the engineers left to go back to an old job on a lot more money (rigs). Then, last month my manager got th sack, as he was poo to be honest, so the oldest engineer (and relation to the owner) got the managers job. Which left two engineers and a manager to cover 3 shifts. So, we took on someone two weeks ago to make us up to 3 engineers again, but hes leaving on friday for a better paid job. So, back down to two!!
But now, the other engineer is leaving in a month for the same money, but with bonuss, overtime etc. Which then leaves me!! On Monday were getting an old engineer back for 2 months to help out (not sure if hell want to stay or not etc though).#
My manager said to me today to have a think about my careers progression tonight and well have an appraisal tomorrow. He said where do I want to go, as in management, project work, Health and Safety etc etc.

I know I want to do more electrical courses (like testing etc), and Im half thinking maybe H&S as everywhere you go there is H&S issues. Agree?

But, I want more money as well, so whats the most professional way to go about it do you think? As I can point out everyone is leaving for more money etc. I, on £27k atm, and would like £30k, but is that too much to ask for? Ive never asked for more money before, and dont want to look like im being an arse.

Thanks

Quote from: chrisdickoand Im half thinking maybe H&S as everywhere you go there is H&S issues.

that way madness lies as tbh youll be almost universally hated

Quote from: chrisdickoIve got an Appraisal tomorrow at work, and need something to say to get more money TBH.

The story goes:
Last year, there was 4 Engineers (inc me) and an Engineering manager. One of the engineers left to go back to an old job on a lot more money (rigs). Then, last month my manager got th sack, as he was poo to be honest, so the oldest engineer (and relation to the owner) got the managers job. Which left two engineers and a manager to cover 3 shifts. So, we took on someone two weeks ago to make us up to 3 engineers again, but hes leaving on friday for a better paid job. So, back down to two!!
But now, the other engineer is leaving in a month for the same money, but with bonuss, overtime etc. Which then leaves me!! On Monday were getting an old engineer back for 2 months to help out (not sure if hell want to stay or not etc though).#
My manager said to me today to have a think about my careers progression tonight and well have an appraisal tomorrow. He said where do I want to go, as in management, project work, Health and Safety etc etc.

I know I want to do more electrical courses (like testing etc), and Im half thinking maybe H&S as everywhere you go there is H&S issues. Agree?

But, I want more money as well, so whats the most professional way to go about it do you think? As I can point out everyone is leaving for more money etc. I, on £27k atm, and would like £30k, but is that too much to ask for? Ive never asked for more money before, and dont want to look like im being an arse.

Thanks

Do you know what other people were on, what theyve left for? How did they rank on seniority compared to you?

Advice would be dont try to smash the pay scheme, but start high and prepare to be negotiated down to something that makes you both happy. Also good to have a figure of what you aspire to in 12, 24 months time maybe - if its 40k or 50k or whatever, explain how you think you might progress career-wise to get there and how youd want the money to follow.

Sounds to me like youre in one of two situations - either a pretty strong one as they wouldnt want to lose you given what else has gone on. Otherwise, not so great in that they just cant afford to pay people any more at the minute for whatever reason.

EDIT: Also, could you go and get one of the better paid jobs elsewhere?

Quote from: Binary Shadow

Quote from: chrisdickoand Im half thinking maybe H&S as everywhere you go there is H&S issues.

that way madness lies as tbh youll be almost universally hated

Looks good on a CV though tbh, and Id be sent on proper courses.

Quote from: BigSoyDo you know what other people were on, what theyve left for? How did they rank on seniority compared to you?

Yeah, exactly the same as me. One left as he just wanted a change, and others for more money.

Quote from: BigSoyAdvice would be dont try to smash the pay scheme, but start high and prepare to be negotiated down to something that makes you both happy. Also good to have a figure of what you aspire to in 12, 24 months time maybe - if its 40k or 50k or whatever, explain how you think you might progress career-wise to get there and how youd want the money to follow.

Will have to think how I can improve the engineering department, and anything else I take on....like H&S maybe.

Quote from: BigSoySounds to me like youre in one of two situations - either a pretty strong one as they wouldnt want to lose you given what else has gone on. Otherwise, not so great in that they just cant afford to pay people any more at the minute for whatever reason.

The company can deffo afford it, were totally flat out at the moment and are always employing more "Shop Floor" people to keep up with the work. IMO I think I maybe am in a strong position, due to the fact Ill be the only engineer who knows the factory inside out.

Quote from: BigSoyEDIT: Also, could you go and get one of the better paid jobs elsewhere?

Probably I think. Ive not applied anywhere, as I like the work. The people I work with are friends etc, so ATM dont want to move jobs. Although work doesnt need to know that do they.

I thought about more money too when i had my appraisal at the beginning of last month, but because my contract is temporary more money was out of the window because of my schools budget, so i was out for that but all they talked about really was how well i have been doing since i started etc and any improvement that needing doing etc.

Liam

just be blunt & ask for more money.
cant sack you for asking.

If you like the work, and can cope with the current workloads, ask for more money. Would have thought if you could do your job and the job of one of the guys that have left, or most of it, they could afford to pay you a chunk of what they were paying the other guy on top of your wage?

Dont threaten to leave or anything, but deffo ask for the money. Suggest youre prepared to take on more responsibility and be like an assistant manager, as youre one of the remaining 2 of 5 engineers, they need you for your experience. You and the manager will need to train up replacements etc, and that should be worth paying you more for starters?

Nothings worse than working and wishing/knowing you should be being paid more, even if you enjoy the work.

Id just mention your commitment to the job, and that you think you could do more for the company. While others are leaving around you, you have remained loyal and the knowledge you have accumulated is something that they cant buy, and this would cost them training to train someone else up.

Also imply that others are leaving for higher pay packets and you have remained out of loyalty to the company, but causing you to feel undervalued.

I would say that rise is an acceptable rise, ask them what the opportunity there would be for a pay rise, and if they are responsive to that ask them what kind of ball park.

Maybe drop in that others are leaving for x ammount (higer than what you are looking for)

....Failing that leave and get better money

...Currently myself and my manager are trying to sort out a pay rise for myself, but my manager has suggested a higher raise than is usually allowed to be processed, as I exceed my job role and perform significantly better that the other two people in my position (And when they leave Ill most probably be taking on their roles also!)

Quote from: XEntityId just mention your commitment to the job, and that you think you could do more for the company. While others are leaving around you, you have remained loyal and the knowledge you have accumulated is something that they cant buy, and this would cost them training to train someone else up.

Also imply that others are leaving for higher pay packets and you have remained out of loyalty to the company, but causing you to feel undervalued.

I would say that rise is an acceptable rise, ask them what the opportunity there would be for a pay rise, and if they are responsive to that ask them what kind of ball park.

Maybe drop in that others are leaving for x ammount (higer than what you are looking for)

....Failing that leave and get better money

...Currently myself and my manager are trying to sort out a pay rise for myself, but my manager has suggested a higher raise than is usually allowed to be processed, as I exceed my job role and perform significantly better that the other two people in my position (And when they leave Ill most probably be taking on their roles also!)

if you dont get it.. dumb down & work less.. If I only get paid 50% of my value, they get 50% effort

Quote from: Eggtasticoif you dont get it.. dumb down & work less.. If I only get paid 50% of my value, they get 50% effort

Ill just get another job, theyll basically be screwed if I left anyway  

dont be shy telling them how much you like it there, but also make sure they understand that youre a bit concerned that everyone else who works there keeps leaving for more money...

and dont be shy blowing your own trumpet, theyre only going to pay you what they have to... if you spend 10 min telling them how hard you work, how well you know the job, you know the factory inside out etc. etc.. then its harder for them not to give you the extra money...

oh, and most importantly, if youre on 27 and want 30, then ask for 33, tell them you think youre worth every penny of it.....   tho.... if you can pull it off, ask for 35


edit/ps, if the manager is old (how old is he?) tell them its a bit far ahead but you think you could do his job when he leaves...

when you talk about courses, talk about how they could help you do more for the company/make them more moeny/etc.... and ask them what they would like you to do.....  they dont want to pay for courses for you if youre going to leave / if the skills wont help you there !

Well I had it, and we sorted what courses etc I want to go on, and probably will be.

We talked money for over an hour, but I wont be getting anything now, as they will only review it in January. So, out of principle, I think im going to look for another job. Im not bothered if I leave, but it will leave them in she sh*t.

Tell them you have got an offer from another company and are considering it. In the meantime do have a look around for another company to give you a job, if they arent prepared to do a deal now they never will. Dont be fobbed off by the we dont do wage negotiations now crap.

Well, a bit of progress!

In our contract/salary, we had to do 7 days weekend work for "free" a year. It wasnt free as such, as it was combined in our contract. But now, we need to work the 7 days still, but we are getting paid £150 for a Saturday, and £200 for a Sunday. Also well now be getting paid for being on call, and we will have the chance of overtime through the week which weve never had before, and that could be up to 20hours a week at time and a 3rd.

Plus Im going to be going to be going on some more electrical testing courses, and going in to more project work...which will also mean more courses!


Id still leave if a job came along! lol