Climate change or coincidence?
I bet the goverment was aware the risk a while ago.. funny how it comes on the back of their carbon footprint bollocks & to tax us more eh?
Theres history of snow in Africa as well!
Just because we have 1 bad weather cycle & the goverment moves swiftly to pull the wool over your eyes to convince you theres a problem & its our fault.
But thats all it is... a Weather Cycle.
I believe the planet is changing.
I believe we should be taking steps to protect ourselves.
Im not 100% convinced that the change is due to humans.
I believe there will be another ice age in the future.
Global warming is a big problem but I dont believe it is insurmountable and Im not totally convinced that dumping money into something over which we may have little to no control over is necessarily the best use of global spending. Theres no doubt now that the climate is warming but it has done so many many times in the past long before humans started pumping gas into the atmosphere. Personally, Id rather see everyone on the planet have clean drinkable water which is very achievable with the amount of money being spent on trading carbon credits. Significantly more people die from lack of drinkable water than die in flooding.
Then again, if we are actually making things noticeably worse then I also think that Id rather see people working on systems to actively reverse global warming effects than simply slow the entire worlds productivity and reduce the rate we wreck things by a few decades. If we are making things worse then Im not sure how slowing the rate a little solves anything other than delaying the worst parts.
I appreciate this isnt a very PC position of course and I may be way off the mark but Ive not seen any data that shows human CO2 production causing global warming. Ive seen plenty of graphs that show temperature rising and CO2 emissions rising but they dont show one causes the other. CO2 does cause warming of course but why isnt that stimulating plant growth toremove its own CO2. You can also plot graphs of global temperature rises when human CO2 emission was negligible - no CO2 emissions but a temperature rise. You can also show that global temperatures have increased as the number of rollerbladers increases - youd get the same graphs. Im not sure many people would claim that the number of rollerbladers increasing is the cause of global warming...
Post hoc ergo propter hoc:
A happened then B happened.
Therefore B caused A?
well obviously the world is changing.. for a start the way the planet spins on it axis with a wobble means everything wont work in proper cycles.. on top of that the Sun which really dictates the weather is still growing, getting hotter in some parts, cooler in others, etc. - Im sure we cause more damage doing other things like extracting Oil than pumping a little gas into the atmosphere. Along with more Natural changes.
Look at them sand Islands in Dubai (on C5 atm ;-D), surely that must have some negative impact somwhere.
But no.. here we are, a little rain & 1st chance brown gets hes dropping in the words climate change
I believe climate change is occurring, and that we inhibit natures own mechanisms for equilibrium. Larger Cities = Less Green areas and more pollution in general (not just greenhouse gases but the lot).
What I am fed up of however, is this seemingly insane buzzword culture thats arisen. Carbon Footprint, Low CO2 PCs (see PCWorld for details, a wooden pc... low carbon... despite the fact that the tree chopped down to make it, would remove lots more carbon than you just saved making that pc UGH!), low CO2 foods, cars, doors, bricks, cement, christ... it all of a sudden has seemingly gone nuts.
Get the hell out of your Toyoto Prius, and stop munching the LOW CO2 bigmac... and instead walk to the shops, or do something actually helpful not only to the planet, but to your lifestyle.
It is a bit of few things
Now and again in the world nature throws a wobley and I think it is just one of those times a bit on one point.
Climate is changed and the glaciers melting means there IS more water in the world and so levels and the water ecological flow from water to the sky and back down again would mean more water and more rain.
Other things are things like the fact that houses are being built a lot more in flood areas where they would not build before but of course (not flooded in years, lets build) attitude changes and house put there.
Another part will be about the pete bogs that are going to pot and so not holding the water they used to etc...
So really its a few things all taking part to cause the same output - the floods
Im just waiting for the magnetic poles to switch. The earths magnetic field is decreasing notably which hints they may flip. If/when they do the earth snaps round to the new axis so the earths core can start spinning again
Now you may think having the north pole in the middle of Africa is the main concern but you dont have to worry about it. The speed it would flip would cause all of the oceans to flow over the land in a global tsunami.
Thats more worrying than climate change tbh.
QuoteIm sure we cause more damage doing other things like extracting Oil than pumping a little gas into the atmosphere.
Extracting oil shouldnt really make any difference to the planet. Other than burning it of course. Note: this is in no way influenced by the fact I have a final round interview with a giant oil and gas company tomorrow afternoon :P
Quote from: SteveFI believe the planet is changing.
I believe we should be taking steps to protect ourselves.
Im not 100% convinced that the change is due to humans.
I believe there will be another ice age in the future.
Pretty much aggreed with everything said.
My personal view on the whole matter is that the whole carbon footprint phenomanom really kicked off straight after christmas. Its something that needs to be looked at but I cant help that it has political and finacial values at its core thinking with the wrong people opening there mouths, to raise public awareness It hasnt left the papers since janurary.
Lets face it the Live Earth gigs were a joke. A serious global live earth gig would have been acoustic nights at your local pub.
Some of the slogans and advertising are slightly with climate change are missing the picture imo. Its not save our planet, its save ourselves. The planet will be fine, regardless of what species can survive on it.
Quote from: SteveFIm just waiting for the magnetic poles to switch. The earths magnetic field is decreasing notably which hints they may flip. If/when they do the earth snaps round to the new axis so the earths core can start spinning again
Now you may think having the north pole in the middle of Africa is the main concern but you dont have to worry about it. The speed it would flip would cause all of the oceans to flow over the land in a global tsunami.
Thats more worrying than climate change tbh.
QuoteIm sure we cause more damage doing other things like extracting Oil than pumping a little gas into the atmosphere.
Extracting oil shouldnt really make any difference to the planet. Other than burning it of course. Note: this is in no way influenced by the fact I have a final round interview with a giant oil and gas company tomorrow afternoon :P
Have you got any references to confirm this global catastrophe that will occur when the poles flip? I was always under the impression that what little evidence we can gather points to pretty much nothing spectacular happening at all. Im also a little confused about the North Pole in Africa comment and the mental image of the earth flipping? Are we talking about the same phenomenon, i.e that of the North and South poles flipping?
I think I explained badly.
The magnetic poles of the earth can and do flip every few million years. When it happens - nothing too exciting happens in theory except all compasses point the wrong way and we may not be shielded from the suns radiation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomagnetic_reversal
What I was on about is that the magentic field of the planet is decaying (and the poles are drifting around the world already). i.e. the field strength is noticeably less than it was before. If it goes to nothing (which is just one possible outcome but will happen in about 1000 years if things continue - its about 1% decay every 10 years and accelerating) then the earth will have to jump start itself. If it did that then the planets crust could twitch. It would move so quickly that the oceans wouldnt be able to keep up and theyd ride up over the land mass.
So, a magnetic jump start is different to a flip of the poles. In a flip the poles are in pretty much the same place, they are just the other polarity. If the earth jump started then the field would actually spin up around the earth as it reformed. This force would pull the magnetically aligned crust around with it and cause the twitch. While the poles are still north and south / up and down the surface of the earth would have spun around so London could be where the north pole is now for example. This gives us a planet rotating around points that could be anywhere on the globe today. Theres some evidence around that the north pole wasnt always under ice and some of the other planets seem to have had their poles shifted in this way.
My info on the details is a bit sketchy tbh and Im not even sure if theres much science behind the twitching earth thing tbh. It was a long time ago when I read about it. It was more of a side point/idle thought tbh
Sorry this went off topic lol
Quote from: SteveFPersonally, Id rather see everyone on the planet have clean drinkable water which is very achievable with the amount of money being spent on trading carbon credits. Significantly more people die from lack of drinkable water than die in flooding.
Carbon credits is just a way of making it look like something is happening when it isnt - worse than useless TBH.
QuoteThen again, if we are actually making things noticeably worse then I also think that Id rather see people working on systems to actively reverse global warming effects than simply slow the entire worlds productivity and reduce the rate we wreck things by a few decades. If we are making things worse then Im not sure how slowing the rate a little solves anything other than delaying the worst parts.
If you eliminate all the possibilities then whatever you have left, no matter how improbable, must be the answer. Paraphrased of course. Basically its not the sun or the wobble of the earth. If it is us, and thats almost all there is left, then we are making it worse faster, mostly this is happening because developing countries are trying to catch up with our energy use.
QuoteI appreciate this isnt a very PC position of course and I may be way off the mark but Ive not seen any data that shows human CO2 production causing global warming. Ive seen plenty of graphs that show temperature rising and CO2 emissions rising but they dont show one causes the other. CO2 does cause warming of course but why isnt that stimulating plant growth toremove its own CO2.
Except the two graphs are roughly the same. You drop an apple, it falls thirty floors and smashes, there is no connection?
QuoteYou can also plot graphs of global temperature rises when human CO2 emission was negligible - no CO2 emissions but a temperature rise. You can also show that global temperatures have increased as the number of rollerbladers increases - youd get the same graphs. Im not sure many people would claim that the number of rollerbladers increasing is the cause of global warming...
You have to include other greenhouse gasses, farming rice and animals caused effects of global warming long before we started using legacy fuels on a massive scale. And of course roller blades are increasing global warming too, especially when fit young women ride them in bikinis...
Perhaps we should sterilise a few billion people?
Horizon did a thing on global dimming a while back - CO2 makes the planet hotter. Soot and crap makes the clouds shiny and thus cools the planet. They were saying CO2 levels are going up faster than the soot and crap levels now so really we need to bring back coal fires. iirc
The episode might be on google vid still.
iirc arnt they planning to pull carbon out of the air and stick it down old (empty) oil wells out at sea ?
(when i say planning, i mean they are going to do it, not like the million other things theyre planning)
sdp I saw that, you also have to add in the effects of water vapour (contrails) from planes which cools the atmosphere.
knighty, the idea is to push CO2 directly from power stations into underground storeage, not from the atmosphere, that would be too costly. Even so its still planning, there is no guarantee it will happen as intended.