Author Topic: VW T4 van Alternator Electircal Connections (sense wires)  (Read 15677 times)

  • Offline ERU

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Ive been playing with my alternator today and managed to almost connect it back up, as the sense leads where missing. Probably to disguse an alternator that wasnt charging, as it died soon after I bought it. As I bought my alternator in France the instructions are a little vague on wires and connections.

Firstly ive used very thin single gauge wire for my split charger sense wire. This ok? I know multi gauge is beter but I figured as long as it carries a weak signal it will be fine.

Secondly the original two wires (red/blue) that connect to the alternator. I know the blue is the voltage sense wire but what does the red one do? Control the dash light? Also if I connect them back up the wrong way will I be in any danger of blowing anything? i.e. things I need to look out for? Basically I have no idea which one goes where? Any pointers?

Cheers Steve
 :mrgreen:

VW T4 van Alternator Electircal Connections (sense wires)
Reply #1 on: May 08, 2007, 21:47:47 PM
erm... Im a bit lost by what you mean here

the thick red wire should go to the battery, thats the one to charge the battery up

the skinny "sense wire" should go to the dash light.... that one is -ve normally, then turns +ve when your alternator starts making power (which also turns the dash light off!)

do you have a propper split charger thingy ? (ohh fancy!)

but either way.... no, it should really be thicker wire than that :(  thatll mealt when you start sticking 80 amp down it :(   (or probably just 20)

try to use something as thick as the thick wire comming from the alternator...

  • Offline shofty

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Re:VW T4 van Alternator Electircal Connections (sense wires)
Reply #2 on: May 09, 2007, 09:16:30 AM
I dont want to be contraversial here, but on my VW the thick red goes to the terminal on the starter motor. There is a separate wire to the battery on the same terminal on the starter.

Matt

  • Offline ERU

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Re:VW T4 van Alternator Electircal Connections (sense wires)
Reply #3 on: May 09, 2007, 17:11:06 PM
Sorry if it wasnt clear.

I have x2 connectors to my alternator:
1. The big red power lead << no probs here.
2. The other two wires via a single connector << here is my problem.


I have no idea how to reconnect the x2 little wires again. I know they are some sort of sense wires but that is all. I havent got a rev counter, so havent needed them until now.

My electrical knowledge is staggeringly sh*te! but im keen to learn :P

~Oh and I know youve often been taking an interest knighty :P so have a look for updates here:
http://eru-bumble.blogspot.com/
When I finish my exams (and nice weather appears!) ill be going at this camper conversion hammer and tongs. My  bit here and there approach hasnt been working too well  8)

Re:VW T4 van Alternator Electircal Connections (sense wires)
Reply #4 on: May 09, 2007, 17:33:11 PM
considered the possibility of picking up a Haynes manual for the car?

They arent as good as they used to be, but still pretty useful.

  • Offline ERU

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Re:VW T4 van Alternator Electircal Connections (sense wires)
Reply #5 on: May 09, 2007, 17:50:22 PM
As VWs never brake down and no one would buy the book ... Haynes they dont make them for my van :P (i.e. 1.9TD 98 800 special)

I got a workshop manual but its not great as alternators tend to be 3rd party made by either Bosch or Valeo.

Re:VW T4 van Alternator Electircal Connections (sense wires)
Reply #6 on: May 09, 2007, 21:16:02 PM
Quote from: ERU
Sorry if it wasnt clear.

I have x2 connectors to my alternator:
1. The big red power lead << no probs here.
2. The other two wires via a single connector << here is my problem.


hmmm... are the 2 wires just thin ones ?

actually, I just realised, one will be the "sense" wire, and the ohter will be for a rev counter ? (even if you dont have one, the wire will be there)

so just connect em up and see what happens, if it doesent look right, swap em over ;)  (look for the battery light with just the ignition on, it should be on, if not swap em ;) ).... and if its on either way, just stat it up and see if it goes out ;)

  • Offline shofty

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Re:VW T4 van Alternator Electircal Connections (sense wires)
Reply #7 on: May 10, 2007, 09:56:26 AM
Quote from: ERU

I have no idea how to reconnect the x2 little wires again. I know they are some sort of sense wires but that is all. I havent got a rev counter, so havent needed them until now.


whoa there captain, step away from the complex car electrical system.

sorry, ive always wanted to say that.

the wire youre calling a sense wire is the wire that powers the red light on the dash to warn of a low voltage condition either on the battery or alternator side of things.

Quote from: knighty

actually, I just realised, one will be the "sense" wire, and the ohter will be for a rev counter ? (even if you dont have one, the wire will be there)


it is NOT the wire that feeds the rev counter. Thats fed from the coil and will typically be green or red w/ black.

you dont need either to run the car, but its advisable to have the alternator warning light wired up.

Quote from: knighty


so just connect em up and see what happens, if it doesent look right, swap em over ;)  (look for the battery light with just the ignition on, it should be on, if not swap em ;) ).... and if its on either way, just stat it up and see if it goes out ;)


if the two wires come from the same place, why would swapping them up once connected to the other end of the alt warning connector change anything? same source, different connector? same voltage unless theres a split.

@ ERU - I suggest you restate exactly what your problem is, cos im confused.

Matt

Re:VW T4 van Alternator Electircal Connections (sense wires)
Reply #8 on: May 10, 2007, 21:05:18 PM
Quote from: bytejunkie
the wire youre calling a sense wire is the wire that powers the red light on the dash to warn of a low voltage condition either on the battery or alternator side of things.


it is NOT the wire that feeds the rev counter. Thats fed from the coil and will typically be green or red w/ black.

you dont need either to run the car, but its advisable to have the alternator warning light wired up.

if the two wires come from the same place, why would swapping them up once connected to the other end of the alt warning connector change anything? same source, different connector? same voltage unless theres a split.


dont want to flam you.... but youve got it a bit wrong

the "sense" wire as were calling it does do the dash light, its -ve when the alrernator is not producing power, then +ve when it is... which makes the light go out.... but, also while its +ve (and why its been called a sense wite) is that it also tells the alternator how much power to put out... (not really sure how it does this tbh, could guess but would probably be wrong)

but more importantly, if its not joined up then your alternator wont be putting out any power.  plus when ERU is say there are 2 connections, i think theyre riught next to each other, but not joined.

for the rev counter.... his van is a diesel so it doesent have a rev counter.... its pretty normaly to have a connection on the alternator that does the same thing :)

so do you have an update ERU?  how goes it ?

(p.s. sorry to flame you dude)

  • Offline shofty

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Re:VW T4 van Alternator Electircal Connections (sense wires)
Reply #9 on: May 10, 2007, 21:52:58 PM
Quote from: knighty
Quote from: bytejunkie
the wire youre calling a sense wire is the wire that powers the red light on the dash to warn of a low voltage condition either on the battery or alternator side of things.


it is NOT the wire that feeds the rev counter. Thats fed from the coil and will typically be green or red w/ black.

you dont need either to run the car, but its advisable to have the alternator warning light wired up.

if the two wires come from the same place, why would swapping them up once connected to the other end of the alt warning connector change anything? same source, different connector? same voltage unless theres a split.


dont want to flam you.... but youve got it a bit wrong

the "sense" wire as were calling it does do the dash light, its -ve when the alrernator is not producing power, then +ve when it is... which makes the light go out.... but, also while its +ve (and why its been called a sense wite) is that it also tells the alternator how much power to put out... (not really sure how it does this tbh, could guess but would probably be wrong)

but more importantly, if its not joined up then your alternator wont be putting out any power.  plus when ERU is say there are 2 connections, i think theyre riught next to each other, but not joined.

for the rev counter.... his van is a diesel so it doesent have a rev counter.... its pretty normaly to have a connection on the alternator that does the same thing :)

so do you have an update ERU?  how goes it ?

(p.s. sorry to flame you dude)


youre not flaming, were discussing it.

I am wrong, the blue wire does prompt battery charging.

however the regulator tells the alternator what it needs to put out.

and nobody ive asked this evening has ever heard of an alternator that knew how many times the coil was firing a spark. not least on a dub anyway.

Matt

VW T4 van Alternator Electircal Connections (sense wires)
Reply #10 on: May 11, 2007, 00:19:43 AM
its a diesel, there is no spark :p

[edit, just noticed the typo above, when i said his is a diesel so no reve counter, when i ment no coil!]

all you need to know is how fast the alternator is spinning, then you can do the rest with an easy bit of maths..

your right for petrols, and Ive only ever seen the alternator rev counter system on diesels  (tho tbh I havent really looked at that many different veichles)

  • Offline shofty

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VW T4 van Alternator Electircal Connections (sense wires)
Reply #11 on: May 11, 2007, 09:11:06 AM
Quote from: knighty
its a diesel, there is no spark :p

[edit, just noticed the typo above, when i said his is a diesel so no reve counter, when i ment no coil!]

all you need to know is how fast the alternator is spinning, then you can do the rest with an easy bit of maths..

your right for petrols, and Ive only ever seen the alternator rev counter system on diesels  (tho tbh I havent really looked at that many different veichles)


whoa, its a diesel? that means that all knowledge I have can pretty much be discounted. Ill toddle off and stop littering this thread up...

Matt

  • Offline ERU

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Re:VW T4 van Alternator Electircal Connections (sense wires)
Reply #12 on: May 11, 2007, 20:50:01 PM
Quote from: knighty
so do you have an update ERU?  how goes it ?
Ive been revising this week and working so havent got a chance to do it. I was going to have a go tonight but as its raining hard ill leave it for now. Im off to the Olympics this weekend too, so it wont be done then either.

 
Quote from: knighty
hmmm... are the 2 wires just thin ones ?

Yes thats them.

The red/white goes to the W
The blue goes to the d+
Big red is the B+

Ill just connect them up and see if that battery light comes on with the ignition. If it doesnt ill swap them :) I just wanted to make sure I didnt blow anything by doing this. If not ill get pictures ...


VW T4 van Alternator Electircal Connections (sense wires)
Reply #13 on: May 12, 2007, 21:12:08 PM
you need more updates on your blog !

and you should make the rear sunroof an electric one, so you can open/close it as you drive along..... would make for a nice through breez on a hot day ;)

(dont know where youd find one that would be easy to fit tho!)

  • Offline ERU

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Re:VW T4 van Alternator Electircal Connections (sense wires)
Reply #14 on: May 13, 2007, 20:59:19 PM
Im doing exams at the moment and before that I had a bit of kicking ERU up the arse and sorting life out time. Updates tend to come slowly but I made it to motivate me. I seem to prefer USING it on the weekends rather than FIXING it  :roll:

An electric sunroof is certainly a good idea but as far as I know it is nigh on impossible to do easily.

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