Then again. You're all paying for this...

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/world-s-fattest-man-is-revealed-to-be-british-and-weighs-58-stone.html

So I only just looked at this and I have to say I disagree with what some of you are saying. The depression thing for example - don't you think you're generalising this a bit? You're pretty much saying that people with depression should just cheer up and get on with life, but if you really had depression you would know that feels like one of the most impossible things you could do. And half the time, these people are claiming because they can't get a job. I was doing some research a few days ago on the Mind website, and it says that people have been fired because they failed to disclose they had depression.

I also know for a fact that employers treat you as disabled if you tell them you have a mental health problem. For example, I have Generalised Anxiety Disorder. I have no problem with people knowing this, I'm not about to start sacrificing chickens or something equally ridiculous, it just means that sometimes I get a bit too panicky in situations I don't feel comfortable in, but for the most part the symptoms don't affect my abilities to complete tasks. However tell a potential employer this and you can see their minds are made up - they're not going to employ you.
A friend of mine also told me how someone once interviewing him questioned his school. He went to a school for people with learning disabilities because he is slightly autistic. If you knew this person you wouldn't think him any different from anyone else - yet as soon as he mentioned that the interviewers demeanour completely changed. He treated him like he had the mental capacity of a lemon, and needless to say he didn't get the job.

I've been trying ever since I left school (almost three years now) to get a job and it's never worked out. In fact in the hundreds of applications I have made I have only had 5 interviews. I am fully resigned to the fact that chances are I won't have a job by the time I've left college, and I am going to have to sign on for JSA, because otherwise I can't afford to live. My parents can't afford to pay for my prescriptions, they can't pay for my credit and food and other expenses and I don't expect them to. I would literally do anything to have a job so I can pay my way, but I know that it just isn't happening, because there are literally no jobs going.

Don't believe me? A Tesco store opened in my town centre. There was 187 jobs going, over 4,000 people applied - that's over 20 people applying for one job.

It really is just my luck that I am female, aged between 16 and 25, living in the South and have not been previously employed. Look at any article about unemployment and it'll tell you that I have more chance in becoming a banana than getting a job.

What Dave said and also consider we are not just talking about now, or the last weeks, months, we are talking years and years i think we all know people who have been claiming benefit longer than some of the forum members have been alive.

So I only just looked at this and I have to say I disagree with what some of you are saying. The depression thing for example - don't you think you're generalising this a bit? You're pretty much saying that people with depression should just cheer up and get on with life, but if you really had depression you would know that feels like one of the most impossible things you could do.

The problem is most people have never had real depression, they occasionally feel a bit down and  consider that as being depressed when it isn't anywhere near.

Real depression has genuine effects on the brain chemistry. There are medical treatments but, as with all medicines, they can have side effects which may be worse than the problem.

Nope I'm saying that someone with depression can probably do some work and that lots of people currently claiming to be incapable of work are actually capable of work. Especially people with conditions that are hard to quantify or prove/disprove such as depression. While some of those people might not be able to find work they should be on JSA if they are capable of working and not signed off as being incapable.

So let's set the limit at, say, Professor Stephen Hawking? then obviously everyone has the potential for work.

The problem isn't people being able to do some work, virtually everyone could do 'some work' depending on how you define it. It's people being capable of and accepted for jobs. Had Hawking been a bricklayer I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be doing that now. His problem doesn't affect the way his brain works, and there has been an awful lot of effort to help him continue what he does, so he can do some work. Note, that is because he chooses to do it, not because society requires it.

The question becomes, at what point is someone so ill that they cannot be expected to successfully complete a working day or at what point a person is unemployable?

Its been said a few times in this thread and all over the internet, and in the media, the issue isn't with those that genuinely need it, its all the people who can work but are choosing to claim benefits instead.

So how do you identify those that don't need additional benefits but who are getting them from those who genuinely need? There is no clear cut line that can be drawn. Even if you could do that there is the question of if the person is really that sick or just acting.

And she's obviously an actress pretending to be a lazy cow, I've seen the real thing and TBH she's rubbish 

Quote from: Serious on February 17, 2012, 17:19:23 PM

Quote from: Bacon on February 17, 2012, 17:01:29 PM

Its been said a few times in this thread and all over the internet, and in the media, the issue isn't with those that genuinely need it, its all the people who can work but are choosing to claim benefits instead.

So how do you identify those that don't need additional benefits but who are getting them from those who genuinely need? There is no clear cut line that can be drawn. Even if you could do that there is the question of if the person is really that sick or just acting.

And she's obviously an actress pretending to be a lazy cow, I've seen the real thing and TBH she's rubbish 

sick benefits are more than unemployment benefits. thats why everyone tries to get on them.
Plus once on it, you dont have to attend the local job centre, or get sent to job club, etc. - your just left to it.
After a few months, you dont even need to send in any doctors papers. The department are to busy to assess everyone
periodically as well, so people can easily get 12-24 months of receiving a giro without anyone ever questioning them.

See? Egg tells me about something I'm already on and inevitably gets it completely wrong. Your doctor puts you on it initially, then after a year you are assessed by a government appointed doctor or service. After that it can be ten years before they bother to look into your case again. The first year is paid at a lower level.

Quote from: Eggtastico on February 18, 2012, 17:57:39 PM

Quote from: Serious on February 17, 2012, 17:19:23 PM

Quote from: Bacon on February 17, 2012, 17:01:29 PM

Its been said a few times in this thread and all over the internet, and in the media, the issue isn't with those that genuinely need it, its all the people who can work but are choosing to claim benefits instead.

So how do you identify those that don't need additional benefits but who are getting them from those who genuinely need? There is no clear cut line that can be drawn. Even if you could do that there is the question of if the person is really that sick or just acting.

And she's obviously an actress pretending to be a lazy cow, I've seen the real thing and TBH she's rubbish 

sick benefits are more than unemployment benefits. thats why everyone tries to get on them.
Plus once on it, you dont have to attend the local job centre, or get sent to job club, etc. - your just left to it.
After a few months, you dont even need to send in any doctors papers. The department are to busy to assess everyone
periodically as well, so people can easily get 12-24 months of receiving a giro without anyone ever questioning them.

See? Egg tells me about something I'm already on and inevitably gets it completely wrong. Your doctor puts you on it initially, then after a year you are assessed by a government appointed doctor or service. After that it can be ten years before they bother to look into your case again. The first year is paid at a lower level.

So there is a good chance someone could trick the Doctor and get a minimum of a years free cash, and if they manage to persuade the Appointed Doctor they could face 10+ years on benefits without being checked, how is this any better?

Also, i would bet that there are several websites/forums online where discussion on faking this takes place, as i pointed out earlier an hour or two in one of those Job clubs can you net you enough information on a good day, just listening to the regular benefit fraudsters.

Quote from: Eggtastico on February 18, 2012, 17:57:39 PM

Quote from: Serious on February 17, 2012, 17:19:23 PM

Quote from: Bacon on February 17, 2012, 17:01:29 PM

Its been said a few times in this thread and all over the internet, and in the media, the issue isn't with those that genuinely need it, its all the people who can work but are choosing to claim benefits instead.

So how do you identify those that don't need additional benefits but who are getting them from those who genuinely need? There is no clear cut line that can be drawn. Even if you could do that there is the question of if the person is really that sick or just acting.

And she's obviously an actress pretending to be a lazy cow, I've seen the real thing and TBH she's rubbish 

sick benefits are more than unemployment benefits. thats why everyone tries to get on them.
Plus once on it, you dont have to attend the local job centre, or get sent to job club, etc. - your just left to it.
After a few months, you dont even need to send in any doctors papers. The department are to busy to assess everyone
periodically as well, so people can easily get 12-24 months of receiving a giro without anyone ever questioning them.

See? Egg tells me about something I'm already on and inevitably gets it completely wrong. Your doctor puts you on it initially, then after a year you are assessed by a government appointed doctor or service. After that it can be ten years before they bother to look into your case again. The first year is paid at a lower level.

yea serious... I know nothing about it, despite being on it myself for 9 months after knee trouble left me unable to even stand, let alone walk for the best part of 4 months.. slowly getting back to being able to walk until about may last year.
Basically, I saw the doc, he gave me a sick paper, I contacted the benefits helpline... they sent me the forms, that i sent back with docs paper... sent in 2 further doctors papers & got assessed by an Atos professional all within 8 weeks. was awarded sickness benefit & was told I will have a toatl of 6 1 to 1 interviews with my local JCP to see how I was coping.
Over the following 6 months, I had 2 interviews. I was on the lower rate also.

Difference may be I was on ESA - while you may be on the older benefit it replaced. Slowly though, they are looking at the older cases with the aim of everyone going onto ESA.

Getting sickness benefit isnt that difficult - but thats not the issue - the big benefit fraud issue is DLA - harder to get than sickness benefit, but the handouts for DLA is stupid amounts & is paid on top of any other benefit -- Even people who working may be entitled to DLA - its there to help those ill to manage better, so is a worthwhile benefit.