Think of it like a BMW driver telling you you should get a BMW instead of a Ford, they both do basically the same job, but the BMW driver used to drive a Ford and knows how much nicer it is in BMWland

(please dont start any "Id rather have a Ford than a Beemer" arguments, you know full well the point Im making)

Thats not quite an accurate anaology.

You make it under the assumption BMWs are better (Apples) and that people who buy Fords (PCs) do so because they dont want to pay extra for luxury.

What luxury is there in an apple? Putting personal preferences aside, how exactly is an apple worth the 2x outlay over a PC? Now re-read what Ive just written before you reply so you know exactly the point I am making: That is if you want to spend more because you prefer apple - great. I spend more on Sam Adams Boston Lager because I prefer it over Coors Lite. But if you spend more because you claim the apple is a better platform - justify it to us.

Quote from: Goblin

Think of it like a BMW driver telling you you should get a BMW instead of a Ford, they both do basically the same job, but the BMW driver used to drive a Ford and knows how much nicer it is in BMWland

(please dont start any "Id rather have a Ford than a Beemer" arguments, you know full well the point Im making)

Thats not quite an accurate anaology.

You make it under the assumption BMWs are better (Apples) and that people who buy Fords (PCs) do so because they dont want to pay extra for luxury.

What luxury is there in an apple? Putting personal preferences aside, how exactly is an apple worth the 2x outlay over a PC? Now re-read what Ive just written before you reply so you know exactly the point I am making: That is if you want to spend more because you prefer apple - great. I spend more on Sam Adams Boston Lager because I prefer it over Coors Lite. But if you spend more because you claim the apple is a better platform - justify it to us.

I thought it was the basis of people spend more on the BMWs and Audis not necessarily because they are indeed "better" but because the general perception is that they are better. I am of the mind that they may have bigger engines, may have more gizmos and gimmicks, but also that they are more expensive and those gizmos and gadgets tend to break. I am also of the mind that generally the owners are indeed annoying gimps with more money than sense. I would like to say the same about iPhones, but as I am considering getting one next year, I would also have to say there are exceptions to the rule

Quote from: Goblin

Think of it like a BMW driver telling you you should get a BMW instead of a Ford, they both do basically the same job, but the BMW driver used to drive a Ford and knows how much nicer it is in BMWland

(please dont start any "Id rather have a Ford than a Beemer" arguments, you know full well the point Im making)

Thats not quite an accurate anaology.

You make it under the assumption BMWs are better (Apples) and that people who buy Fords (PCs) do so because they dont want to pay extra for luxury.

What luxury is there in an apple? Putting personal preferences aside, how exactly is an apple worth the 2x outlay over a PC? Now re-read what Ive just written before you reply so you know exactly the point I am making: That is if you want to spend more because you prefer apple - great. I spend more on Sam Adams Boston Lager because I prefer it over Coors Lite. But if you spend more because you claim the apple is a better platform - justify it to us.

Well, a BMW is a better driving experience than a Ford. I find using OSX makes me more productive than using Windows, Im happy to pay a little extra for that better experience. Some people find that they are perfectly able to do what they do on Windows (hell, I did for 13 years) but, for me, OSX makes my job easier and my life less stressful. It is a personal opinion but it gets grating when Windows fanboys constantly harp on "huh huh, youre dumb when you could have got a Dell for £300" as if processor and RAM was the only defining point of a computer.

And my MBP was not double the price of a comparable Windows PC.

Also, I like Objective C. Once you get used to the syntax it makes sense, though I dont do enough proper application programming to be able to speak convincingly of technical merits such as reference counting. Its a hell of a lot nicer environment than Visual Studio though and interface builder is a thing of joy.

IF? I was developing software when you were complaining about your thumb.

Yeah you were, Does not mean you know a lot of the modern coming and goings about the web now. Your a good Java coder, I always and continue to say that. In terms of the Web Sam you out the loop and seem to not care to learn about it and anything new or things that are done by everyone else are around because either you do not understand them or want to look at it you dismiss it out right.
We can all see that every time you try post a smarmy comment on the forums in threads.

Did I mention the web? I know my eyesight isnt particularly good but I re-read my post a few times and dont see where the web comes into this. Theres far more to computers than the web.

Again, casing point.

The trouble is you started cutting and pasting HTML and you think you became a computer programmer.

Again, prime example of you having no clue about what is going on.
From A-level computing to Uni. What did I do at Uni?
Java Followed by xhtml etc but then also Java for the web - beans, jsp, MVC etc. Then I also Did XML, XSLT etc. I then learnt design and CSS, XHTML and Javascript off my own back,

For the nth time, graphics is not development.

Sorry but Sam, again you read what you want and ignore everything else and as I said before you like my dad, you make your own conclusions based on your opinion, not what is going on.

You might want to pretend youre a computer programmer but youre not, youre a graphics designer (which is still a laudable profession but I dont know why you have convinced yourself youre a software developer). Anyone can knock together a HTML page (albeit of course those who do it full time are undoubtedly faster).

You say that but the way you have struggled through in this area has been quite funny.


XCode and ObjectiveC are the main mac development tools. For a start, thats what the iPhone is built on (hey theres one of those non web things we talked about). Some of the problems with it include obtuse non c syntax (google it) based on a language called smalltalk (google it). Objective C on the iphone uses reference counting (google it) for crying out loud which is fundamentally flawed.

"The coding software is much nicer then that of the PC".

Well I take it youve never used Eclipse (google it). Even Vis Studio (which isnt a patch on Eclipse) trumps Xcode hands down. Although I suspect the real meaning behind your claim goes back to my earlier comment that you think CSS is coding and that Dreamweaver is a development platform. And Again, not the case.
Today I am sitting here coding in .NET right now making up a comments system with campaign support.

Go into a software development house and ask them if they think Dreamweaver is used for coding and theyll laugh at you.

I did, and no they did not. Not the only thing people use, Coda Etc And I have shown that before, Not the only thing I use either. i got Aptana open right now.

I dont know why I continue to politely converse with you, showing you where are you going wrong, and trying to educate you on the areas you misunderstand when your posts are continually of an (unwarranted) smug nature.

You never do though, In all the other threads I see you spounting things and me producing links etc to back up what I say and then you ignoring the thread there after.

Again Sam, Your a great coder but in terms of web applicaiton, modern thinking about the web, what else is out there bar what you do and know and everything else covered before your out of the loop. Sixrevisions - I know the guy. I showed him this thread. The email back he basically thinks your a total idiot Sam (his words not mine)
Not Only are you 10 years behind in a lot of cases and ignoring the fact you do not seem to want to learn new stuff You dismiss it all, When you talk about symatics, standards, frameworks and everything else you have dismissed as rubbish (despite them being used by everyone else or liked etc) it is Your constant Disrespect for me and everyone else that seems to be up with the modern ways of thinking etc.
I think your an old fashioned guy, but your not a total idiot or total git but for this industry your a total moron tbh with no real clue about what is going on. Great Java coder as I have always said and I have great respect for what you have produced in that. But even if I went into Java and talked about the best modern Practises about the Architecture for an a Web application built in Java in terms of the OO etc you would not have a clue what I was on about. Your better then me at Java I know that but because I have not done it much since Uni. if I got up to speed again (Like I am currently with .NET and Ruby) with everything else I know and how I keep on top of things I would be 10 times better then you Sam. Not because I would be being arrogant prick but it just boils down to keeping on top of what goes on, respect what is going on, take an interest in what is going on, learning more then one thing and just generally not being a miserable old bastard.

f**k, the best developers in the world argue and disagree about things and how something should be done, but the biggest thing is they respect the other guys and what they do. You DO NOT and that is just... well.... It is Not on Sam.

Quote from: Beanissocoollike

apple macs so hard to use?!

I hate college ):

Omg see what you have started now!

Sometimes we should keep some things we are thinking to ourselves to save hassle!

I know your pain, i use a Mac everyday at work, and i quietly think to myself how much more productive i would be with a Windows based machine

That is all down to your experience and what you use and what you want from it. Your used to PC. So am I my home machine is windows 7 and will stay like that. But in terms of work and programming and graphics as well I wish I had a mac to do that other then my macbook pro. (or sort it to connect up to my screen etc) Does a better job.
But then you need to get used to it. I have always been good at adapting so Why I use bother OSs every day, but you use what you feel comfortable using, hey.

If Windows 7 allowed you to drag a file and open a pinned app to run that file - Perfect, best Doc out there in my opinion.

Quote from: Sam

I agree with Nathan. Pointless. Just being different for different sakes.

Plus their development tools are horrible. Xcode and Objective C is 50 years behind everything else.

OpenCL isnt though.....

Coda another. Can name a few. Transmission in terms of FTP and file handling etc is rather good.

But even if I went into Java and talked about the best modern Practises about the Architecture for an a Web application built in Java in terms of the OO etc you would not have a clue what I was on about.... if I got up to speed again (Like I am currently with .NET and Ruby) with everything else I know and how I keep on top of things I would be 10 times better then you Sam. Not because I would be being arrogant prick but it just boils down to keeping on top of what goes on, respect what is going on, take an interest in what is going on, learning more then one thing and just generally not being a miserable old bastard.

In your own way, youre one of the most arrogant and misguided people Ive ever met (or read). That I can handle, and I am more than willing to teach you to help youimprove. Unfortunately, youre also a clueless f**kwit, who actually thinks hes king of the mountain, although I doubt you know a stack (google) from a heap (google) and if I said big O (google) youd be thinking orgasms. Im actually quite speechless at how highly you rate yourself. Good night.