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Chat => Sports, Hobbies & Motors => Topic started by: soopahfly on January 23, 2010, 17:48:18 PM

Title: Engine Problem - Xsara VTS
Post by: soopahfly on January 23, 2010, 17:48:18 PM
Been trying to sort a fog light issue out on my mates car today, and gave it up as a bad job.  That aside, we encountered another problem.


The thing sounds like a VW Beetle.  It sounds like its misfiring and the exhaust fumes smell rich.
Inside, the temperature warning light is on, the stop light is on, and the oil light is on.
It has oil, nice an clean, and it seems to be getting round the engine when I lift the filler cap.

Any ideas where to start here?
Title: Re:Engine Problem - Xsara VTS
Post by: Beaker on January 23, 2010, 17:50:47 PM
Dizzy arm and cap?
Title: Re:Engine Problem - Xsara VTS
Post by: soopahfly on January 23, 2010, 17:53:03 PM
Thought they did away with those when electronic ignition came in?
Title: Re:Engine Problem - Xsara VTS
Post by: Beaker on January 23, 2010, 17:58:19 PM
Quote from: soopahflyThought they did away with those when electronic ignition came in?

There isnt a traditional dizzy anymore, but some cars still have a cap and arm on one end of the cam.  Possibly the leads need replacing?  Im assuming you have checked youre getting a good spark.  
Title: Re:Engine Problem - Xsara VTS
Post by: soopahfly on January 23, 2010, 18:00:37 PM
I dont think it would show, as it starts fine and runs fine for a few mins, then does it quite sporadically.
Not a problem changing leads and plugs if required, but its the warning lights in the cabin.
Not showing the engine management light either :S
Title: Re:Engine Problem - Xsara VTS
Post by: Beaker on January 23, 2010, 18:02:07 PM
Quote from: soopahflyI dont think it would show, as it starts fine and runs fine for a few mins, then does it quite sporadically.
Not a problem changing leads and plugs if required, but its the warning lights in the cabin.
Not showing the engine management light either :S


weirdness, sounds electrical though, or in this case quite possibly the ECU is on its way and is giving false reasons.  Pull the battery for an hour, then put it back on.  


edit :: the reason i say that is you say the oil etc is ok.  Otherwise I Would say the head had gone.  
Title: Re:Engine Problem - Xsara VTS
Post by: soopahfly on January 23, 2010, 18:05:53 PM
Tried the battery thing, and tested earths when trying to fix the foglights
Title: Re:Engine Problem - Xsara VTS
Post by: Beaker on January 23, 2010, 18:21:55 PM
*snip* ignore me, wouldnt take in to account the warning lights.  
Title: Re:Engine Problem - Xsara VTS
Post by: soopahfly on January 23, 2010, 18:32:25 PM
Warning lights seem to relate to the coolant sensor, as there is a little light next to the temp gauge thats lit.
STOP light is lit at the top, not sure about the oil light though.
Title: Re:Engine Problem - Xsara VTS
Post by: Mark on January 23, 2010, 20:58:23 PM
what were you doing before the lights started coming on on the dash ?

was it running ok beforehand ?

I have several of those engines and it is not common to do a head gasket, they are very reliable. Basically an Mi16 with an iron block and a slightly poorer head.

Remember that later models of those have the nightmare multiplex wiring, and seemingly small electrical changes can cause havoc in otherwise totally unrelated systems.
Title: Re:Engine Problem - Xsara VTS
Post by: Mark on January 23, 2010, 20:59:42 PM
if the temp light is on, and the water is cold, and the gauge is not lifted, you may have fallen foul of the multiplex wiring system.

Even using jumpleads on those damn things can screw them over

Changing the radio can also seriously affect the electrical system and require a dealer reset

Title: Re:Engine Problem - Xsara VTS
Post by: soopahfly on January 24, 2010, 10:05:41 AM
This is the 2nd Xsara my mate has had, the other being a 1.6 8v.  Both have been Mk1 cars and both have had a similar problem with the engine misfiring.  It was doing this before we started tinkering with it.  Not sure about the lights though.

Its got an after market headunit, and essentially all I did was remove and clean the contacts on the relays, remove and clean the inner wing earths, and bypass the earth for the front foglights. Then put it back as it had no effect.


The engine was stone cold, and the STOP light, temp light and oil light were all on.



*Edit.

I think the multiplex system was introduced in the 2001 MK2 cars.  This is standard wiring.
Title: Re:Engine Problem - Xsara VTS
Post by: andy25_hill on January 24, 2010, 10:25:08 AM
Posted on the Citroen Xsara Owners Club

http://www.cxoc.net/index.php?topic=10208.0
Title: Re:Engine Problem - Xsara VTS
Post by: soopahfly on January 24, 2010, 11:52:05 AM
OOh hark at you, coming onto my turf :)
Title: Re:Engine Problem - Xsara VTS
Post by: Mark on January 24, 2010, 13:11:20 PM
Aye, I reckoned it was the later models only that had that - just didnt know what year yours was.

Its going to be tricky to diagnose over the internet! Could be any number of electrical components, injector, fuel quality, etc etc

Just going to have to test them as per manufacturers specs unfortunately, or read any stored error codes.
Title: Re:Engine Problem - Xsara VTS
Post by: Beaker on January 24, 2010, 13:25:31 PM
*shudder* I hate that system, mate changed his plugs fro non0standard ones, and it was giving sh*tloads of errors!  plugs FFS!
Title: Re:Engine Problem - Xsara VTS
Post by: soopahfly on January 24, 2010, 13:34:46 PM
Personally, we reckon its an earthing problem.

The Haynes book of lies says that all the dash warning lights are connected to the same earth as the fog lights which we are struggling to find.  Knowing our luck, it will be the same as the ECU too.
Title: Engine Problem - Xsara VTS
Post by: knighty on January 24, 2010, 13:48:54 PM
you could try connecting a better earth to the earth connection on the fog lights ?

they might be connected together ok... but not earthing problem ?

would only take 5 min so its worth a try ?
Title: Re:Engine Problem - Xsara VTS
Post by: soopahfly on January 24, 2010, 14:08:09 PM
I tried that yesterday.  Two bits of wire, take the +ve from the socket, and -ve to the body/battery and we got that one light on.  Tried it on the other one, nada.

Went back to other light, nothing.

Something bizzare is happening with this.  Although to be expected....It is french :D
Title: Re:Engine Problem - Xsara VTS
Post by: andy25_hill on January 24, 2010, 15:12:05 PM
Your going to get a slap on Tuesday for that Nathen :D
Title: Re:Engine Problem - Xsara VTS
Post by: andy25_hill on January 25, 2010, 16:35:37 PM
In at Chesterfield Autoworld for a diagnostic check.

£70.50 + VAT!

Gonna be walking like John Wayne for the rest of the day  :cry:
Title: Re:Engine Problem - Xsara VTS
Post by: soopahfly on January 25, 2010, 17:15:30 PM
Just wait until you get my bill....
Title: Re:Engine Problem - Xsara VTS
Post by: andy25_hill on January 25, 2010, 18:03:20 PM
You helped me to sabotage it. Your paying half my boy :D
Title: Re:Engine Problem - Xsara VTS
Post by: soopahfly on January 25, 2010, 20:02:06 PM
Lol, you pay the 70, Ill pay the 50 :D
Title: Re:Engine Problem - Xsara VTS
Post by: Mark on January 25, 2010, 21:52:58 PM
Quote from: soopahflyPersonally, we reckon its an earthing problem.

The Haynes book of lies says that all the dash warning lights are connected to the same earth as the fog lights which we are struggling to find.  Knowing our luck, it will be the same as the ECU too.

Citroen usually earth all the dash to a connector attached somewhere under the sterering column.

Title: Re:Engine Problem - Xsara VTS
Post by: Mark on January 26, 2010, 11:03:49 AM
PS, I have autodata if you need it looking at
Title: Re:Engine Problem - Xsara VTS
Post by: soopahfly on January 28, 2010, 11:21:47 AM
Whats autodata?


Anyhoo, onto an update.
Citroen seem to think we were born yesterday.

"Yes sir, its the instrument cluster thats faulty, Citroen have discontinued the part and we cant give you a part number to check yourself, that will be £70.50, plus 2 hours labour"
Title: Re:Engine Problem - Xsara VTS
Post by: Mark on January 28, 2010, 16:55:56 PM
They can easily get the part# from servicebox, and xsara parts are still made.

autodata is basically all the autodata books on dvd
Title: Re:Engine Problem - Xsara VTS
Post by: andy25_hill on January 28, 2010, 17:54:17 PM
I double checked with Evans Halshaw just to see if Autoworld were taking the p1ss and their system advised that the cluster was discontinued but did advise that Autoworld could get in touch with the Citroen tech team (Onion Monkeys) to find find an alternative.

Anyway Autoworld have been advise that i will be collecting the car tomorrow and settle a bill of £211 but also i will be sending the cluster off for repair and while in for repair they find nothing wrong with it the car will be going back and they will look again and no money will change hands. :yarr:
Title: Re:Engine Problem - Xsara VTS
Post by: andy25_hill on February 07, 2010, 11:19:33 AM
The cluster has been sent for repair but yesterday me an Soopahfly went to a scrappy in Barnsley to collect another cluster to test.

Guess what......................................... Autoworld were wrong! Same lights on a different cluster.

Title: Engine Problem - Xsara VTS
Post by: andy25_hill on February 13, 2010, 08:31:45 AM
Call from the cluster repair place and the firmware is currupt on the cluser!

They are going to try and save it this weekend if not back to stage one :(
Title: Re:Engine Problem - Xsara VTS
Post by: soopahfly on February 13, 2010, 09:13:55 AM
(http://www.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2007/06/21/mn_hot_rods_la102.jpg)
Title: Re:Engine Problem - Xsara VTS
Post by: andy25_hill on February 17, 2010, 21:13:42 PM
About £300 spent and i think its finally solved. Faulty relay for the coolant light and alarm but whats weird is that a battery swap and its solved the rest :S

See what happends whe the other cluster comes back and installed after apparent firmware issue.