Lets havvit then.
Petrol ftw.
Jaimz :rock:
Deisel, more torque, more miliage, fun to surprise the boy racers in bodykitted 106GTWannabes
Diesel everytime providing you can get it to start.
petrol.
because its not a by product
Diesel every time :p
Diesel cause its funnier when you kick ass killing boy racers.
Have to change gear wayyyyy less so less clutch wear.
More MPG.
Can pull more weight without loss of power
Easier to service
last longer
Modern diesels are so much better than petrols now :D
A few years ago Id have said, you put me in a diseasal and Ill smash your face in :lol:
Now Ill sit on the fence I think; theres good and bad on both sides, certainly in the context of a 2.0 litre Mondeo, of which Ive driven both types a lot of miles.
The biggest surprise to me now is that the Euro IV compliant Ford diesel is better to drive on A B roads; you can get your foot down earlier at low revs in a corner and itll just pull and drag the car round. In the petrol car to do this youd have had to get right down the gears to get the same amount of torque at the same time and then youd have to change up once or twice on the way out which would be inconvenient and make for a fairly unsettled drive. On a twisty road you can just surf the turbo, without having to change at all.
To an extent the difference here is partly down to gearboxes - the petrol one has very long legs to try to increase fuel economy, which blunts the drivability in twisty roads. In my old Golf GTi which had very short ratios you could drive almost everywhere in 4th because of its flexibility.
The thing thing that makes the difference is the torque the turbo diesel produces - at 210 ftLb its as much as the 16v Integrale used to produce, albeit in a very different place. Id like to try the ST tdci version with 300 ftlb....
Another other good thing about the new diesels is their refinement, which one the move is as good as the petrols - at idle theyre still horribly noisy
The bad side is all the torque at low revs makes town driving a pain in the arse - the clutch is extra big to deal with the torque and hence fairly heavy. You have to let it up in a very controlled fashion, and then slip it slightly once just moving, to achieve a smooth start. Otherwise you either jerk forward in a lunge or stall. Doing this 5 times a minute in a traffic jam is very tiresome. The petrol one is much better here.
The other down side is the kerb weight. The diesel version of the Mondeo Zetec S is over 100kg heavier (nearly 10 %) than the petrol one - and its all in the engine, at the front, which means the car understeers quite a bit more. When you first swap from one to the other, this is very noticeable, although admittedly I seem to be used to it now - having 225 section tyres might help :twisted: But obviously its not gone away.
If I was paying for my own car and buying a family saloon, Id probably pick the diesel. Certainly its not down on overall performance, and 20-30% better economy would be a decider.
Depends what application its in tbh.
wouldnt want a petrol lorry or boat, but id never want a diesel sports car.
Im going to have to vote petrol really, you dont get as much MPG but servicing, and initial costs to buy a petrol car are lower - 5th gear worked out that a diesel is actually more expensive overall, unless you have the car a very long time.
Diesels are only amazing these days because the turbos cram in 30+ PSI of boost.. - run even 20psi on a petrol and youll be looking at REAL performance.
Gonna have to go for petrol - I live in a city & so dont need a car at the moment but if I did get one it would just be a small petrol car.
I guess if I lived in north wales, yorkshire dales or the scottish highlands & did loads of miles then Id prob be in need of a car & would prob go for a family sized diesel.
Sports cars have either bigger engines or lighter weight, so that the torque to weight balance matches the ordinary diesels, and cancels out their advantage. A mid-engined seven speed 4 litre turbo-diesel sports car might be interesting :lol:
Audi R10 anyone?
Quote from: brummieDiesel cause its funnier when you kick ass killing boy racers.
Have to change gear wayyyyy less so less clutch wear.
More MPG.
Can pull more weight without loss of power
Easier to service
last longer
Modern diesels are so much better than petrols now :D
Modern (Turbo)Diesels are almost as good as (basic) petrol engines developed in the 80s that should read? A modern n/a diesel is hopeless in comparison with a petrol engine of same capacity.
And I disagree (a little) with the longer lasting comment - they will, depending on how they are treated.
I drive a diesel as a daily driver, but thats going to change. There is no point now - a petrol car converted to gas makes the most sense. Performance and cheap fuel.
Yeah, see plenty of diesels here chucking out a variety of smoke (smoke, not diesel fumes due to acceleration)
Most only a few years old, or so - usually found in these sporty diesel cars and have no doubt been revved to their governors far too many times.
Cant beat a simple petrol engine for ultimate durability as they are generally more relaxed engines.
I dont necessarily think sports cars have bigger engines or lighter weight.
The Honda S2000 weighs 1250KG, and has a 2.0 inline 4, and just look at the Golf GTi - a 2.0 and weighing in at 1336kgs for the 3dr manual (lightest!) its not exactly light.
and if you argue saying how good the R10 is well, thats fair enough - but how long do you think its engine will last, and I imagine it has one heck of a service schedule and I bet its not exactly economical either. its not a fair comparison even slightly. In fact, its no comparison at all - its not a normal diesel.
I like diesels becaus they just keep on going.... forever :)
tho I guess some of these newer high-reving ones might not be so reliable :(
Quote from: snellgroveCant beat a simple petrol engine for ultimate durability as they are generally more relaxed engines.
huh? Simpler? More relaxed?
A Diesel is a simpler engine,and itll invariably last longer because they are generally machined out of much better materials, and have tighter tolerances. Im thinking of B-Series Diesels that have over 1,000,000 on them in Taxis, and you just know a 2.5 petrol (even a modern one) isnt going to have that type of lifespan.
Not like a modern sporty turbo-diesel though are they
Under immense stress compared to the likes that yll find in a Taxi
A taxi has a proper diesel engine, doing what its meant to be doing.. being reliable and economical.
people love modern diesels because they get this sudden kick at 2000RPM or thereaboutas as the turbo spools.
its not real speed though, it feels flippin fantastic, no doubt about it but watch the speedo. slooooooww, its not moving as much as a petrol
Petrol is more progressive, you dont feel the acceleration as much but again, watch the speedo whip around the gauge quickly into license losing stuff ;)
:edit:
Again, I must point out.. petrol vs diesel? theres no winner, its impossible. it is completely dependant on the application it is installed in.
I jove driving cars, and a diesel that struggles to reach the red once its out of its 2000rpm wide powerband and feeling all asthmatic at not much below 5000rpm just doesnt do it for me the way a petrol grows and grows in power, and slams into the limiter - thats more like it, you get to drive that.. keep it in the power down a country lane making a great noise. diesels all sound the same, and its not a nice noise.
.......of course the above is my opinion. surely a diesel being best or not, is down to user preference.
just be thankful we have the choice to buy either.
Well mine has just turned 150K and i dont take it easy.
:D
just got all the way to conwy and back and TBPFH i am expecting a speed ticket or two :(
didnt notice a cuple of cameras onthe way up that i noticed coming back :cry:
Ooops ;)
chances are youll be ok... but then again.
On the way back, were the cameras 1) GATSOs and 2) pointing towards you?
if so, yes you may be in some bother as on the way up theyll be looking at the back of your car, and thats how they get you.
and even then you might be fine... got to have film in, hasnt it !
Truvelo get you as you steam towards them, theres 3 lines on the road really close together, but RIGHT IN FRONT of the camera. 9 times out of 10 you can scrub the necessary off before you cross ;) I had a close call with one once, but now looking @ them, I think you have to be blind or running away from the cops :lol: to get caught by one.
Quote from: BeakerQuote from: snellgroveCant beat a simple petrol engine for ultimate durability as they are generally more relaxed engines.
huh? Simpler? More relaxed?
A Diesel is a simpler engine,and itll invariably last longer because they are generally machined out of much better materials, and have tighter tolerances. Im thinking of B-Series Diesels that have over 1,000,000 on them in Taxis, and you just know a 2.5 petrol (even a modern one) isnt going to have that type of lifespan.
The most complicated component of any engine? The *diesel* injector pump.
Look to the states for longievity - 1,000,000 miles on a 305ci or 350ci V8 is not uncommon.
we have these stinkin cameras appearing over here now that measure your average speed between two points.
Modern yankee V8s are pretty marvelous things, but while the block might go a million miles, youll have several gaskets blow, rings wear out, and valves blow through the cam cover before you actually gut up that high. :lol: Some of the new ones that shut down cylinders on the interstate to get 4 banger mileage are pretty damn cool though. :thumbup:
Ill take a diesel any day, as I drive like a granny with four cups of coffee in her from bingo night. Shame that the choices here with diesel are very limited. AFAIK, VW is the only passenger diesel over here. The Jetta TDI is pretty sweet, though, and has a very low clatter and clonk level. :P
Specs, is the name they go by.
gee whiz, I cant wait for them to proliferate a bit.
heck, it mgiht be worth buying a diseasel if theres too many cameras - driving for fun will be non existent
(ok, its hard to stick to 60mph on some of the roads round here, but theres a scary trend of roads that were 60, suddenly turning into 40s and 30s around here. Dorset is really slowing down :( )
If you asked me a year ago i would have said petrol straightway, but after the good old megane tdi and now my Zed, i lean over to the diesel now. Performance, reliability, economy (i average 52mpg on my way back from cardiff yesterday, that is bombing round B/A roads like stink) and I even like the roar you get form the engine sound really meat at high revs.