Youve seen the media item whereby Douglas Alexander is apparently proposing to set a national tariff/template for cities who want to introduce road pricing, to avoid differences in pricing across the UK.
The media are spinning this as if its the first step in an inevitable scheme where we forgo road tax in lieu of a pence-per-mile scheme, wherever you go. They say (this is the funny bit imho) that itd be administered by a satellite tracking system fitted to every car, linked the inevitable computer thatll debit your bank account.
Whod like to to be in charge of administering that? Imagine the data theyd have to process? The costs in running thatd surely outweigh the cost of government doing away the road tax and not road pricing!
If anthingll make me vote Tory, this would be it...
why cant they just stop fiddling. people just accept it will be busy in cities. who cares.
it has got nothing to do with lowering congestion just raising the cost of driving.
I dont think its financially viable, and I think theyre doing the usual lets suggest something really nasty so people will be relieved when we only put Ã,£10 on a disk & 10p on petrol" thing.
Although they could just do the fixed fee thing like London.
/They need to spend some money on buses, make em a little nicer and better value and have timetables that arent just for show.
There is the potential scenario of places like Tokyo, which are totally grid-locked, to be avoided. Its the idea that theyd like to price motorways and other roads that incenses me.
Would be easy to implement with todays tech, and probably reasonably quick and easy to administer with a simple database.
However, making it haxxor proof would be pretty hard.
Also, are you going to tax the car on carbon emissions, or road wear due to tire type--heck, lets go all the way and also factor in length of vehicle for urban traffic jams. :lol:
Stupidest motor vehicle law Ive encountered was Washington States yearly road tax being determined by the blue book value of your car. So everybody in my small city drove clunkers. :lol:
if you live in the middle of London, Manchester or Birmingham you likely think that the entire country is gridlocked at rush hour. If you live outside of a big city then youll know snarlups only happen in particular areas. I can get from one side of Preston to the other in under 30 minutes at rush hour. Off Peak its more like 15. The main issue is really that people in London wholl support this think the world ends at the M25.
it would involve IT, and the government
they have enough on their plate at the mo (NHS)
so NO!
itd be pretty crap having GPS on each vehicle kinda way of doing it
they have enough cameras... USE THEM!
Quote from: maximusotterWould be easy to implement with todays tech, and probably reasonably quick and easy to administer with a simple database.
Not with our government in charge it wouldnt...
QuoteAlso, are you going to tax the car on carbon emissions, or road wear due to tire type--heck, lets go all the way and also factor in length of vehicle for urban traffic jams.
Weight of the vehicle should be a factor.
Quote from: maximusotterWould be easy to implement with todays tech, and probably reasonably quick and easy to administer with a simple database.
Look at it this way, the new NHS Computer system is already overbudget, and its nowhere near complete. The Pensions system is ****ed, as is the Benefits Agency. The ID Card scheme isnt going to happen due to the sheer technology and cost involved (consultancy stages are ~3 years late, and the budget was blown 12 months in).
The UK Governments have never been great at IT projects, but the present one couldnt put a simple access dBase together for under Ã,£5mil
who loves big brother and voted yes?? you really think it wont be abused.. i laff at you
Quote from: CeathreamhnanThe media are spinning this as if its the first step in an inevitable scheme where we forgo road tax in lieu of a pence-per-mile scheme, wherever you go. They say (this is the funny bit imho) that itd be administered by a satellite tracking system fitted to every car, linked the inevitable computer thatll debit your bank account.
Im not in favour of a satellite tracking scheme but I am in favour of more toll roads/congestion charges.
Citys like Birmingham, etc.. could prob do with a London style congestion zone in the center - tbh.. no individual not on business "needs" to drive right into the center of any city (obviously exceptions made for disabled people as is currently done in central London).
A few more toll roads like the M6 could also be built (in addition to the existing motorways) - im not advocating introducing charges to existing roads just new ones.
however any charge per mile/sat tracking road tax scheme is a step too far & despite what the media like to make out of these stories it isnt inevitable as the opposition to such a scheme would be huge.
on new roads maybe but im not f**king paying on roads i have already paid for with my road tax to be built.
indeed were already taxed to buggery on fuel and for road tax surely thats enough? at nearly Ã,£1 per litre of fuel that must be enough of a deterrent to drive places we dont need to?
Why not just up fuel tax again? surely that would make more sense than spending billions on a system thatll probably never work.
Its not just because they want more money but they want more controll.
Speeding, tax/insurance cheats, duty on different diesels wont matter as much, police can trace you quickly etc. Government can kiss my ass.
had enough of our governments now TBH really pissing me off. Every single politician is a waster and we should just spend more money becoming more democratic and having referendum stations instaed of voting arsoles into power.
good god man you cant put fuel tax up as people wont be able to afford to go to work FFS
its not us thats the problem its the flaming gvmt not spending the cash properly and blowing cash on stupid things
theres no need for us to be taxed any more, all it does is go up and theres NEVER any improvment!
Quote from: Binary Shadowgood god man you cant put fuel tax up as people wont be able to afford to go to work FFS
but charging per road wont make any difference to their journey??? :roll:
its a stealth tax damnit itll work out more expensive to go anywhere!
at the end of the day if evryone gave up there car then the government would have noone to tax and theyd put taxes up elsewhere.
Road tax doesnt even go on the roads it pays for policing football matches and saturday nights out and hosptitals that have to have alcohol induced injuriy support, NHS computers that dont work, dole cheats etc etc :x
god damn immigration and benefit fraud needs to be sorted out
Look at how well southern ireland is doing - their economy is nothing short of amazing. Tax on income is a little higher, but there is no NHS. Roads are a lot better than the UK - theyre all getting rebuilt or new ones building.
Fuel costs 70p per litre. The government did recently buy themselves a lear jet though...
Traffic density in Eire must be a tenth of the UK though.
Id safely say that Dublin is the worst city to drive round in Europe.
DHL reckon it is the slowest in europe.
Im quite happy paying about Ã,£10 a month in road tax tbh. My cars only a 1.3L which means my 6 monthly bill is Ã,£60.50.
I think Ã,£10 a month is a fair price to pay for new roads tbh.
Pay per mile Id be paying sh*t loads, I once did over 1000 miles in 1 week and 800 the next. If have aht ecash Ill easilly do the miles.
Quote from: mr_rollIm quite happy paying about Ã,£10 a month in road tax tbh. My cars only a 1.3L which means my 6 monthly bill is Ã,£60.50.
I think Ã,£10 a month is a fair price to pay for new roads tbh.
Pay per mile Id be paying sh*t loads, I once did over 1000 miles in 1 week and 800 the next. If have aht ecash Ill easilly do the miles.
Ive done over 2000 miles this week in my truck and added about 1200 to the car. Imagine the costs of that! No way would it work.
I went on the M6 to Edinburgh last week. Under the new scheme would i pay one fee to go wherever on that road or would i have to pay per mile?
I would rather they scrapped the road tax and put it all on petrol TBH.
This will start with road tax but them spread into speed control and a lot of other things. TBH I doubt if they could manage it without a huge overspend.
i cant see a problem with the current system, and increasing fuel cost just isnt fair, its already hugely taxed compared to other countries and lorry drivers will be hit hard if the tax is increased
Big lorries cause a disproportionately high amount of road wear anyway so they should pay more. They also have the biggest opportunity for fuel economy.
good god.. they are struggling enough as it is
if it gets any more expensive theyll all go under and well be stuck with the foreigners
I dont know how many people have noticed but we as a country are getting screwed as its so freaking expensive over here and everyones pulling out to go abroad where its cheap
Quote from: SeriousThey also have the biggest opportunity for fuel economy.
I cant see where your coming from here, wont get many MPG with the 11L turbo diesel lumps dragging heavy good up and down a less than flat country
Quote from: SeriousBig lorries cause a disproportionately high amount of road wear anyway so they should pay more. They also have the biggest opportunity for fuel economy.
how is it disproportionate? a 48t tracter & trainler carry over 60 times more than a car. to carry the same amount in cars it would equal 80+ litre of engines and 120t+ in weight on the roads, pluss one hell of a wage bill, things like toilet roll would increase by about 10 time in price.
lorries could afford more tax TBH. Company i work for is raking it in but i spose some small companies might go under.
Lorries do cause a lot of damage and we do now charge some vehicles extra so its only fair lorries/PSV should pay more. most of the lorries abroad pay more and we are charged for going to some but we do not charge foreign imports any road tax and they do add to the problem.
Give higher taxes to 4x4 vehicles over say 2.5L that live in the urban areas. Put it up quite substantionally. Mums who take 2 kids to the school dont need a 4.2L V8 powered Toyota. They need a small car!
Too damn right. Its almost ludicrous trailing the kids to school in an oversized SUV (With no towbar) that would be about as much use in a crash, or off road as a Mk I mini.