You didnt get mad when the Supreme Court stopped a legal recount and appointed a President.
You didnt get mad when Cheney allowed Energy company officials to dictate the energy policy.
You didnt get mad when a covert CIA operative got outed.
You didnt get mad when the Patriot Act got passed.
You didnt get mad when we illegally invaded a country that posed no threat to us.
You didnt get mad when we spent over 600 billion(and counting) on said illegal war.
You didnt get mad when over 10 billion dollars just disappeared in Iraq.
You didnt get mad when you found out we were torturing people.
You didnt get mad when the government was illegally wiretapping Americans.
You didnt get mad when we didnt catch Bin Laden.
You didnt get mad when you saw the horrible conditions at Walter Reed.
You didnt get mad when we let a major US city, New Orleans, drown.
You didnt get mad when we gave a 900 billion tax break to the rich.
You didnt get mad when the deficit hit the trillion dollar mark.
You finally got mad when the government decided that people in America deserved the right to see a doctor if they are sick.
Yes, illegal wars, lies, corruption, torture, stealing your tax dollars to make the rich richer, are all okay with you, but helping other
Americans...oh hell no.
Quote from: bearYou didnt get mad when the Supreme Court stopped a legal recount and appointed a President.
You didnt get mad when Cheney allowed Energy company officials to dictate the energy policy.
You didnt get mad when a covert CIA operative got outed.
You didnt get mad when the Patriot Act got passed.
You didnt get mad when we illegally invaded a country that posed no threat to us.
You didnt get mad when we spent over 600 billion(and counting) on said illegal war.
You didnt get mad when over 10 billion dollars just disappeared in Iraq.
You didnt get mad when you found out we were torturing people.
You didnt get mad when the government was illegally wiretapping Americans.
You didnt get mad when we didnt catch Bin Laden.
You didnt get mad when you saw the horrible conditions at Walter Reed.
You didnt get mad when we let a major US city, New Orleans, drown.
You didnt get mad when we gave a 900 billion tax break to the rich.
You didnt get mad when the deficit hit the trillion dollar mark.
You finally got mad when the government decided that people in America deserved the right to see a doctor if they are sick.
Yes, illegal wars, lies, corruption, torture, stealing your tax dollars to make the rich richer, are all okay with you, but helping other
Americans...oh hell no.
pretty much what I was thinking to myself when I saw them protesting about the new health bill.
Any links about the protests? I havent been following the news much lately.
There are some interviews and class videos around.
People going up to people protesting and quizzing them why, many had no clue to exactly what Obama was trying to change. They just Hate change and join the bandwagon to moan.
When people say "illegal" in reference to the Iraq war, over and over again, you know theyre a hippie liberal.
You might not support the war (and I dont) but it wasnt "illegal"
i understand where the term illegal is coming from. But I dont think its a good word to use, unsanctioned would have been better, or something along those lines.
I really dont understand why the americans are going apesh*t over this, i mean, how is free healthcare for everyone a BAD thing?
I know some argue that at first its free healthcare and then next thing everyone is a comrade
Quote from: Eddi understand where the term illegal is coming from. But I dont think its a good word to use, unsanctioned would have been better, or something along those lines.
I really dont understand why the Americans are going apesh*t over this, i mean, how is free healthcare for everyone a BAD thing?
I know some argue that at first its free healthcare and then next thing everyone is a comrade
Quite simple, a lot of the odd balls and Sarah palin types as well as just the sheer mass of dum ones out there in the US they believe what they are told. When the oppositions base is basically all the yocal type areas of the US which is quite a large number they just believe what they are told and do not actually understand things like this for themselves. Very well will be better for them but if they are told its crap they will do as you see them campaigning.
They did it in the presidency run, that video on youtube of a load of Sarah Palin lovers talking about Obama - Just no clue.
They are just generally thick over there. I know that kind of view is not really on, but in general they are!
The general study route they have is so American self centred they learn to much American History and American Geography and just the manner of most of their schools they learn nothing of what you and I did.
New Zealand is nothing like America but here the school system is not a patch on the UK really and UK has its issues but people take it for granted.
Even at what we class as GCSE level here in NZ they did not have to do Biology and Physics and Chemistry, they got to choose and could do Law or cooking etc. Most of us who are now around the 30 age will have done 11 Ish GCSEs and at least 3 A-Levels before Uni.
A UK Degree holds more weight then a NZ one as well. I do not know why but apperently does.
Americans though, just grrr. I hope Obama continues to fight for all these reforms, He is on Education and Student fees/loans at the moment.
I think if the other parties stop the "The other guy is doing it so it is bad for yoU!" rubbish he could set new paths for the American people and improve the country more since Bill Clinton. Despite his affairs etc I think he was a pretty good president. All Gore is to much of a "save the world" oddball but he would have done similar pushes for improvements where it mattered.
Quote from: neXusQuite simple, a lot of the odd balls and Sarah palin types as well as just the sheer mass of dum ones out there in the US they believe what they are told. When the oppositions base is basically all the yocal type areas of the US which is quite a large number they just believe what they are told and do not actually understand things like this for themselves. Very well will be better for them but if they are told its crap they will do as you see them campaigning.
They did it in the presidency run, that video on youtube of a load of Sarah Palin lovers talking about Obama - Just no clue.
That thought did cross my mind. But I think youre selling americans short. There may be some complete yokels just doing whatever their republican masters tell them. But I dont think it could explain the mass uproar.
No offence meant here nexus, but youre in New Zealand and cannot know the full situation and watching a few youtube videos about yokel campaigners doesnt make you an expert on it.
Im not saying that I do know anything about it. In fact I know f**k all about it because the news coverage of it here on the TV is very limited. I think to truly understand what is happening youd have to be either American or living in America.
I really dont think its as black and white as the republicans telling everyone that "Its bad"
I was gonna say the same thing Edd.
Nexus, the US is a vast and complex country. Its not a case of a few rednecks protesting. Most of my democrat voting friends arent happy with the bill either.
PS. Its a bit rich to say the UK education system is a lot better when you have a 1st grade level of English grammar.
So what actually is the case, why arnt the democrats happy about it? What are the fundamental issues?
Quote from: EddQuote from: neXusQuite simple, a lot of the odd balls and Sarah palin types as well as just the sheer mass of dum ones out there in the US they believe what they are told. When the oppositions base is basically all the yocal type areas of the US which is quite a large number they just believe what they are told and do not actually understand things like this for themselves. Very well will be better for them but if they are told its crap they will do as you see them campaigning.
They did it in the presidency run, that video on youtube of a load of Sarah Palin lovers talking about Obama - Just no clue.
That thought did cross my mind. But I think youre selling americans short. There may be some complete yokels just doing whatever their republican masters tell them. But I dont think it could explain the mass uproar.
No offence meant here nexus, but youre in New Zealand and cannot know the full situation and watching a few youtube videos about yokel campaigners doesnt make you an expert on it.
Im not saying that I do know anything about it. In fact I know f**k all about it because the news coverage of it here on the TV is very limited. I think to truly understand what is happening youd have to be either American or living in America.
I really dont think its as black and white as the republicans telling everyone that "Its bad"
I never covered the smart people and there is a hell of a lot of them. I have family there and know and work/have worked with quite a few of them there. Just like everywhere else.
I was just pointing out that it is a big country, its a more then that really but due to a lot of the culture and the size of the country you just do have a lot of those types out there.
The other party there in the US take FULL advantage of that and well, its Brilliant. Fox News for example can get away with using Fake stories (which they do often and getting in trouble more often. They made out right racist comments about Obama the other week). They are very smart to target these people and do a better job of that then the current leadership even despite their loss.
They just very easy to mind control as it were.
Look at the pictures of poll results and the states, it just shows all that quite well.
Sam, ahh, bless you. All that you say about me and you repeatedly continue hey. ROFL. Much more then you, not where close to as petty so moving on.....
Sams point about leaving US short in that post true but I was talking a certain type of American which sadly there exists a lot of them.
It is an odd case of the US having some of the smartest and some of the dumbest (and fastest) people on the planet.
But it is true about the Education. Till you get to the levels you are at for example Sam lower down it is pretty poor.
Edd - None I can see that, it is not though. I do read a lot and there is countless stuff to read about all this.
How Sarah Palin is so think yet so popular is well documented for example.
Her tour she recently did was supposed to be all coach for the environment but she was caught on tape hopping off plains onto the coaches. Even some of her stops she could not make by coach alone but claimed to and her "fans" just went with it.
I do not hate America at all, I think Obama is one of those "finally!" and he is working Dam hard to sort the country out. I think he is not a token black guy, he has a pretty good sense of what to do.
Quote from: Clockd 0NeSo what actually is the case, why arnt the democrats happy about it? What are the fundamental issues?
Quite a lot of it is really complex. The bill is no where near the first draft.
At the end of the day this change will cause companies and people to loose a lot of money they were making. So they and the people hey know and have influence over will not be happy about that.
Quote from: neXusQuote from: EddQuote from: neXusQuite simple, a lot of the odd balls and Sarah palin types as well as just the sheer mass of dum ones out there in the US they believe what they are told. When the oppositions base is basically all the yocal type areas of the US which is quite a large number they just believe what they are told and do not actually understand things like this for themselves. Very well will be better for them but if they are told its crap they will do as you see them campaigning.
They did it in the presidency run, that video on youtube of a load of Sarah Palin lovers talking about Obama - Just no clue.
That thought did cross my mind. But I think youre selling americans short. There may be some complete yokels just doing whatever their republican masters tell them. But I dont think it could explain the mass uproar.
No offence meant here nexus, but youre in New Zealand and cannot know the full situation and watching a few youtube videos about yokel campaigners doesnt make you an expert on it.
Im not saying that I do know anything about it. In fact I know f**k all about it because the news coverage of it here on the TV is very limited. I think to truly understand what is happening youd have to be either American or living in America.
I really dont think its as black and white as the republicans telling everyone that "Its bad"
I never covered the smart people and there is a hell of a lot of them. I have family there and know and work/have worked with quite a few of them there. Just like everywhere else.
I was just pointing out that it is a big country, its a more then that really but due to a lot of the culture and the size of the country you just do have a lot of those types out there.
The other party there in the US take FULL advantage of that and well, its Brilliant. Fox News for example can get away with using Fake stories (which they do often and getting in trouble more often. They made out right racist comments about Obama the other week). They are very smart to target these people and do a better job of that then the current leadership even despite their loss.
They just very easy to mind control as it were.
Look at the pictures of poll results and the states, it just shows all that quite well.
Sam, ahh, bless you. All that you say about me and you repeatedly continue hey. ROFL. Much more then you, not where close to as petty so moving on.....
Sams point about leaving US short in that post true but I was talking a certain type of American which sadly there exists a lot of them.
It is an odd case of the US having some of the smartest and some of the dumbest (and fastest) people on the planet.
But it is true about the Education. Till you get to the levels you are at for example Sam lower down it is pretty poor.
Edd - None I can see that, it is not though. I do read a lot and there is countless stuff to read about all this.
How Sarah Palin is so think yet so popular is well documented for example.
Her tour she recently did was supposed to be all coach for the environment but she was caught on tape hopping off plains onto the coaches. Even some of her stops she could not make by coach alone but claimed to and her "fans" just went with it.
I do not hate America at all, I think Obama is one of those "finally!" and he is working Dam hard to sort the country out. I think he is not a token black guy, he has a pretty good sense of what to do.
When was the last time you spent time in the US talking to Americans day in day out about their views on healthcare.
And well leave it at that.
PS. I wasnt trying to make a dig about your level of grammar, I was really just trying to say that its difficult to follow your posts when theyre in pigeon English.
I Agree. Reading articles will only get you a biased version. Being in the states and getting opinions from day to day people will yield more valid results.
As an aside Sam, what are the points of contention (as you understand it) with the healthcare bill?
The main things I hear are two things.
1. They wont want anything that will take away their choice, or cost them more money (most of my mates are white collar and dont need free healthcare).
2. They think public health care is crap. Its funny but everyone (from idiot to scientist) believes that in the UK you have to wait 6 months if you have a heart attack. I always laugh when people I think of as intelligent honestly think this.
Tbh the way the media is even in the UK, Id believe it if I didnt have first hand experience of needing the health care!
Quote from: SamThe main things I hear are two things.
1. They wont want anything that will take away their choice, or cost them more money (most of my mates are white collar and dont need free healthcare).
2. They think public health care is crap. Its funny but everyone (from idiot to scientist) believes that in the UK you have to wait 6 months if you have a heart attack. I always laugh when people I think of as intelligent honestly think this.
Thing being they actually pay a lot more for their private health care than the UK does for its public service. Surveys have shown that despite everything they put into private health care the life expectancy in countries with public health care is significantly better than in the US.
Americans have a massive not invented here problem and chances are they always will. Public opinion paranoia rules, business is good, government is bad, and the media, owned by the rich, intends it to stay that way.
Then again good news rarely seems to sell a newspaper.