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on one hand their previous human rights record is disgusting, but are the world leaders in stem cell
research, read this.
http://www.stemcellschina.com/content/view/585/283/lang,en/

NAME: David Robert Blair      David Blair
       
COUNTRY: Scotland (Campbeltown)

AGE: 33

DIAGNOSIS: Spinocerebellar Ataxia Type 1, diagnosed in April 1998.

REASON FOR COMING FOR TREATMENT:  David hoped to improve his balance, mobility and coordination, and to be able to play football with his kids. He also hoped to improve his speech.

TREATMENT: Umbilical Cord Stem Cell and Nerve Growth Factor Injections with Rehabilitation Therapy

START OF TREATMENT: March 5, 2007

David had unsteady balance and poor coordination. He could only stand up for a short time without support. He had difficulty walking heel-to-toe on flat surfaces, and could not walk up or down stairs without using a handrail. He had slurred speech when tired. He could flex his fingers and grip objects, but he could not hold things steadily.

AFTER THE TREATMENT:

David's balance and coordination improved significantly. He was able to stand up straight with no support for extended periods. He was able to walk more easily than before on flat surfaces, and for the first time in seven years he could walk up and down stairs without a handrail. He could also go up and down stairs sideways, which he could not do before the treatment. His speech was no longer as slurred as before. He could also grip objects more steadily. This improved his writing and allowing him to perform day-to-day tasks which he could not do before treatment, such as tying his laces or drinking a cup of water by himself. As a result of these improvements, David was far more self-dependant than before. He was also more confident.

VIDEOS:

March 7th: Standing

March 9th: Stairs, Balance, Walking

March 13th: Coordination

March 14th: Balance

March 15th: Stairs

March 21st: Balance

March 23rd: Stairs

April 2nd: Coordination

April 3rd: Stairs, Walking

blimey can you asee our government doing this.
the Chinese government is expected to funnel as much as $132 million annually into the research over the next five years"

and this, "China is the sleeping giant (for stem cell research)."
-Fred Gage - Salk Institute

For some reason Im inclined to take it with a pinch of salt until I see some research in a peer reviewed journal or similar. Conspiracy theory mode in overdrive makes me wonder how easy it would be to create such a site as a bit of Pro-China propaganda?

I would go with zpyder on this one, last medical marvel I heard of coming out of China was a million people being infected with AIDS due to a blood transfusion scam company. Unless there is some real proof then the risks outweigh the possible benefits. Oh, and if there was this use of stemcells then the western countries would be looking into it too.

Stem Cells are the way to go but they can now grow them from your own stuff taken from you now and grow stem cells from that, was posted on these forums.
I would also agree to wait till real doctors in known medical locations with merit and qualifications to develop stuff and then deem it safe for the public rather then going to China now

unfortunately time is not with me, I cant wait, everyday is bloody hard now,
how can a YouTube Video done by David Blair, be considered as a fake.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey93g5OoLy0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4s6jqEOk-A&feature=related

reading the youtube comments they dont reply anymore.

didnt some country claim to have cured aids the other day? sounds a similar thing really a "look at me" type thing

Quote from: Binary Shadowdidnt some country claim to have cured aids the other day? sounds a similar thing really a "look at me" type thing

if I had full blown Aids, id not worry, over the years countrys have spent millions, the drugs now days give you a good life, as yet Ataxia is back seat stuff.

They can now farm stem cells from skin cells.  The moral problem of pulling them from embryos will vanish in the near future and then were golden.

Probably not in time for you or I but the technology is progressing in the West at an incredible rate.  Its just not at human trials (which to be honest is understandable since we have no real idea what stem cells will do).  Theres no reason why stem cells wont simply grow into massive tumours without further study for example.

Im still waiting to see what the final results for human growth hormone are and thats been circulating through trials for a lot longer than stem cells

Quote from: SteveFThey can now farm stem cells from skin cells.  The moral problem of pulling them from embryos will vanish in the near future and then were golden.

Probably not in time for you or I but the technology is progressing in the West at an incredible rate.  Its just not at human trials (which to be honest is understandable since we have no real idea what stem cells will do).  Theres no reason why stem cells wont simply grow into massive tumours without further study for example.

Im still waiting to see what the final results for human growth hormone are and thats been circulating through trials for a lot longer than stem cells

im prepared to run the risk, ill human trial anything, typing this is nearly impossible, but the scientists have about 25 years to find a drug for my kids.

great quotes. Thought Provoking Quotes.

"the Chinese government is expected to funnel as much as $132 million annually into the research over the next five years."
-UK Stem Cell Initiative.

we know the Uk Stem cell runs on charity, our goverment f**ked up the NHS, over money, so UK Stem Cell will not get a penny.

another quote.
"Every lab I saw during a recent visit to China had hugely expensive, state-of-the-art equipment and was buzzing with young scientists. Many of those scientists had been educated in the United States."
-Stephen Minger - U.S. Stem Cell

http://www.stemcellschina.com/content/view/202/124/lang,en/
 Beike - Kymberly Graf       PDF        Print        E-mail
Friday, 07 July 2006


P A T I E N T  E X P E R I E N C E – A T A X I AKymberly

NAME: Kymberly Graf
   
COUNTRY: Canada  

AGE: 19

DIAGNOSIS: Spinocerebellar Ataxia 2

REASON FOR COMING FOR TREATMENT:  Kymberly's family had a history of Ataxia and she had been feeling the symptoms for about 6 years. It had gotten to the point where it was starting to affect her studies at school.

START OF TREATMENT: April 4, 2006 Umbilical Cord Stem Cell and Nerve Growth Factor Injections with Rehabilitation Therapy

BEFORE THE TREATMENT:

Video: Before

Her speech was slurred.  She had difficulty walking straight, jerkiness in her arms and hand, and cramps in her legs. She had trouble focusing on things. She had trouble typing because her hand would jerk off the keyboard.

AFTER THE TREATMENT:

See Videos: After 1, After 2, After 3,  After 4, After 5, After 6, After 7, After 8

Kymberly had an improvement in her balance. She could walk down stairs without holding on to the railing. She was able to spin around more easily. She could catch a ball more consistently. She could type twice as fast.

China Stem Cell News Note: Kymberly was very camera shy so we had to get most of the footage related to her improvements from her parents. Kymberly also did not get down to the rehabilitation room very often for rehabilitation. Her father, Tim, has said that since Kymberly has returned home, she has kept her improvements and when she does the exercises they were assigned, she gets more improvement.

I think the site is genuine, theres over a 100  Patient Experiences.

Quoteim prepared to run the risk, ill human trial anything, typing this is nearly impossible, but the scientists have about 25 years to find a drug for my kids.

Have you tried contacting universities and research centres to offer your services as a human guinea pig?

Quote from: Chris H

Quoteim prepared to run the risk, ill human trial anything, typing this is nearly impossible, but the scientists have about 25 years to find a drug for my kids.

Have you tried contacting universities and research centers to offer your services as a human guinea pig?

yes Ive done that thanks Chris. me and my sister have.

I hate to be such a downer, but the thing that gets me about that site is, the fact that publications like New Scientist, which though glossy, tend to contain the groundbreaking news stories of the science world. They frequently publish articles on stem cell research.

However the latest issues all detail some form of stem cell research still at the lab and test rat/mouse stage. The closest I think I can remember to human trials was a statement that a technique mentioned would be ready in a couple of years for human trials. That site is, to me, the equivalent of a website being made 5 years ago advertising todays modern tech computers. Its possible, but not available quite yet. If it was it would have been on the BBC and all other major news channels much like Dolly the sheep. The labs leading the forefront of this kind of research are striving to be the first to achieve their goals, the second they can itll hit international headlines, not a website that is linked to on a forum...

It could of course be that these different patient reports are the result of trials that arent of the standard required for true scientific recognition. A lack of control groups and proper protocols etc. But then if this is the case, you have to ask yourself how many more people took part in the trials with no signs of treatment effect on them, or even negative effects, which the site may exclude from publishing.

Quote from: zpyderI hate to be such a downer, but the thing that gets me about that site is, the fact that publications like New Scientist, which though glossy, tend to contain the groundbreaking news stories of the science world. They frequently publish articles on stem cell research.

However the latest issues all detail some form of stem cell research still at the lab and test rat/mouse stage. The closest I think I can remember to human trials was a statement that a technique mentioned would be ready in a couple of years for human trials. That site is, to me, the equivalent of a website being made 5 years ago advertising todays modern tech computers. Its possible, but not available quite yet. If it was it would have been on the BBC and all other major news channels much like Dolly the sheep. The labs leading the forefront of this kind of research are striving to be the first to achieve their goals, the second they can itll hit international headlines, not a website that is linked to on a forum...

It could of course be that these different patient reports are the result of trials that arent of the standard required for true scientific recognition. A lack of control groups and proper protocols etc. But then if this is the case, you have to ask yourself how many more people took part in the trials with no signs of treatment effect on them, or even negative effects, which the site may exclude from publishing.

if you were in my shoes, you might see things differently, some people have severe reactions, but I m at the stage where nothing matters

this looks interesting.
http://www.bath.ac.uk/crm/

I think youre missing something...

Theres a pretty strong indication Stem Cells do work on a lot of illnesses.  But afaik you cant do it in this country as its totally banned on humans since the source of the stem cells are/were embryos and people got jumpy.  If youre willing to try anything then you really need to leave the UK to try it.  Because they arent going to be doing human trials here anytime soon.  Just waiting for the legal restrictions to be lifted alone is going to take years.

Quote from: SteveFI think youre missing something...

Theres a pretty strong indication Stem Cells do work on a lot of illnesses.  But afaik you cant do it in this country as its totally banned on humans since the source of the stem cells are/were embryos and people got jumpy.  If youre willing to try anything then you really need to leave the UK to try it.  Because they arent going to be doing human trials here anytime soon.  Just waiting for the legal restrictions to be lifted alone is going to take years.

Thats why China will always be world leaders, they dont care.

he UK has hundreds of protesters,
trouble with uk there is always an outcry on this stem cell treatment as you get all these pro life people saying it is wrong as it is sometimes from embryos so they f**k things up for everyone,this with the umbilical cord still raises issues with some as they say that the baby has rights to say if their cells are used to help others and then there is the whole genetic thing that people argue about  so in uk too many will listen to the few that know nothing but have loud opinions so not only do we fight illnesses we fight the ignorant people who have nice healthy lives, and dont forget the god squad who no doubt will have there say too.


"As moral debate sidetracks stem cell research in the U.S., countries in Asia, Europe are moving to stake claims in the promising industry"
-Terri Somers - Union Tribune

this is the main reason.
Why is stem cell research controversial?       

The source of stem cells determines whether the use is controversial. There appears to be universal support for using stem cells that are obtained from non-embryonic sources such as umbilical cord blood, placentas and bone marrow. The procurement of stem cells from these sources does not harm the donor. Strong disagreement ensues over experiments using stem cells collected from human embryos and fetuses.
http://www.stemcellschina.com/content/view/325/169/lang,en/

sad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UgJSCde_VA&feature=related

Quote from: PrivateerThats why China will always be world leaders, they dont care.

Indeed.  Chinas government do not have as many problems about the morality of stem cells.  Then again, you could also argue quite strongly that the same thing that allows it is also part of the same ethos that means the west often raise an eyebrow at some of their other moral choices.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzCl95A90P0

The list is pretty long.  I think stem cells are fine but Im glad there are people out there regulating it and protesting.  Because frankly, the lack of moral questioning has other consequences that probably matter more than delaying science by a year or two.

Quote from: SteveF

Quote from: PrivateerThats why China will always be world leaders, they dont care.

Indeed.  Chinas government do not have as many problems about the morality of stem cells.  Then again, you could also argue quite strongly that the same thing that allows it is also part of the same ethos that means the west often raise an eyebrow at some of their other moral choices.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzCl95A90P0

The list is pretty long.  I think stem cells are fine but Im glad there are people out there regulating it and protesting.  Because frankly, the lack of moral questioning has other consequences that probably matter more than delaying science by a year or two.

an individual pulled that trigger, also I and a lot of people think its staged.
I cant believe they wont leave Tibet, thats worse.

It was just one example :)  PS: Its a policy not an individual act.  Human rights is not currently one of Chinas strong points.  Evicting everyone from the capital to build empty sky scrapers noone will ever live in ready for the olympics would be another hint.  But lets stop this going off topic.

Assuming that because China isnt being held back by the morality of stem cell research is because theyre forwards thinking isnt necessarily as straight forwards as you imply :)

edit: Anyway - go to china and apply there?  Writing to UK unis/medical institutes offering to be a human trial subject wont achieve anything other than filling bins in a country where treating you would be illegal and mean they were shut down.

David Robert Blair is from COUNTRY: Scotland (Campbeltown) .

BEFORE THE TREATMENT:

See videos: Before1, Before2

David had unsteady balance and poor coordination. He could only stand up for a short time without support. He had difficulty walking heel-to-toe on flat surfaces, and could not walk up or down stairs without using a handrail. He had slurred speech when tired. He could flex his fingers and grip objects, but he could not hold things steadily.

AFTER THE TREATMENT:

David's balance and coordination improved significantly. He was able to stand up straight with no support for extended periods. He was able to walk more easily than before on flat surfaces, and for the first time in seven years he could walk up and down stairs without a handrail. He could also go up and down stairs sideways, which he could not do before the treatment. His speech was no longer as slurred as before. He could also grip objects more steadily. This improved his writing and allowing him to perform day-to-day tasks which he could not do before treatment, such as tying his laces or drinking a cup of water by himself. As a result of these improvements, David was far more self-dependant than before. He was also more confident.

I watch his video, its great, I need to find him to ask several questions, does anyone here know how to do it.

Quote from: PrivateerThe source of stem cells determines whether the use is controversial. There appears to be universal support for using stem cells that are obtained from non-embryonic sources such as umbilical cord blood, placentas and bone marrow. The procurement of stem cells from these sources does not harm the donor. Strong disagreement ensues over experiments using stem cells collected from human embryos and fetuses.
http://www.stemcellschina.com/content/view/325/169/lang,en/

I seem to remember reading however that the processes used to create stem cells from non-embyonic sources are much less reliable, and because of this expensive. Theyre working on getting the rates of viable cells up to the same as embyonic ones (which even then the amount of embryos required to get enough viable cells is considerable if I remember correctly) however. This is what I was meaning in the tech lag between what Ive read about in the last month or two and what that website purports. Dont get me wrong, when it comes to the ethical debate of embryonic stem cell research Im all for it to be honest. Same with a lot of other research that has ethical issues.  

Quote from: zpyder

Quote from: PrivateerThe source of stem cells determines whether the use is controversial. There appears to be universal support for using stem cells that are obtained from non-embryonic sources such as umbilical cord blood, placentas and bone marrow. The procurement of stem cells from these sources does not harm the donor. Strong disagreement ensues over experiments using stem cells collected from human embryos and fetuses.
http://www.stemcellschina.com/content/view/325/169/lang,en/

I seem to remember reading however that the processes used to create stem cells from non-embyonic sources are much less reliable, and because of this expensive. Theyre working on getting the rates of viable cells up to the same as embyonic ones (which even then the amount of embryos required to get enough viable cells is considerable if I remember correctly) however. This is what I was meaning in the tech lag between what Ive read about in the last month or two and what that website purports. Dont get me wrong, when it comes to the ethical debate of embryonic stem cell research Im all for it to be honest. Same with a lot of other research that has ethical issues.  

in the FAQ on that site, very imformative.
Has embryonic stem cell research (which destroys human embryos) produced remedies in human beings?        

No. Embryonic stem cell research has experienced only failures, including the worsening of Parkinsons
symptoms in one human test group. Since 1998, when researchers first isolated embryonic stem cells,
there has been no reports of a successful treatment for any human being using this type of cell.
Research using embryonic stem cells has been problematic. The cells have proven difficult to control.
Therapies with embryonic stem cells will have to overcome the problem of rejection by the immune systems
of recipients, according to the National Institutes of Health.


Has non-embryonic stem cell research produced remedies in human beings?        

Yes. Doctors have used bone marrow and cord blood stem cells for more than 40 years,
according to NIH. Research using non-embryonic stem cells has provided treatments for
numerous medical conditions, including spinal cord injuries, rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis,
sickle cell anemia, lupus, strokes, Parkinson's disease, Crohns disease, heart damage and some
types of cancer. Non-embryonic stem cells have been used to treat 80 different ailments, according
to Do No Harm: The Coalition of Americans for Research Ethics. Remarkably, there are three documented
cases of paraplegics regaining the ability to walk after having undergone non-embryonic stem cell treatment.


Why is stem cell research controversial?        

The source of stem cells determines whether the use is controversial.
There appears to be universal support for using stem cells that are obtained from non-embryonic sources
such as umbilical cord blood, placentas and bone marrow. The procurement of stem cells from these sources
does not harm the donor. Strong disagreement ensues over experiments using stem cells collected from human
embryos and fetuses.

Im not exactly clear on the purpose of the thread anymore.

* Stem cells = good idea (everyone agrees)
* Source of embryos is a problem for some countries.
* You would like to try it.
* Noones stopping you going to join those trials or develop your own system.

I thought the point of the thread was would our government fund stem cell research.  It does, and so does the european research funds which sponsor all this stuff.

Then I thought it was China spending more (which is unlikely - the US is almost certainly spending more).  Probably Japan too.  Per person Im sure we do.


Theres a lot of info here but I dont get what the threads about anymore.  :confused:

Quote from: SteveFIm not exactly clear on the purpose of the thread anymore.

* Stem cells = good idea (everyone agrees)
* Source of embryos is a problem for some countries.
* You would like to try it.
* Noones stopping you going to join those trials or develop your own system.

I thought the point of the thread was would our government fund stem cell research.  It does, and so does the european research funds which sponsor all this stuff.

Then I thought it was China spending more (which is unlikely - the US is almost certainly spending more).  Probably Japan too.  Per person Im sure we do.

Ive been waiting for years now, the US, UK and Europe are no further foreward than when they started because of PC crap, at least asia says no to pc people, looks like ill be going to China.


Theres a lot of info here but I dont get what the threads about anymore.  :confused:

ffs if you dont click after the qute you answer in the same box

BLIMY, Ill find her.
 Beike - Audrey Jones                 
Tuesday, 12 February 2008


NAME: Audrey Jones - The Former Lord Mayor of Manchester

AGE: 75

COUNTRY: Great Britain

http://www.stemcellschina.com/content/view/815/16/lang,en/

Quote from: PrivateerBLIMEY, Ill find her.
 Beike - Audrey Jones                 
Tuesday, 12 February 2008


NAME: Audrey Jones - The Former Lord Mayor of Manchester

AGE: 75

COUNTRY: Great Britain

http://www.stemcellschina.com/content/view/815/16/lang,en/

If a British Lord Mayor has treatment in China, obviously human rights wasnt going to stop her. :cheers:

Quote from: PrivateerIf a British Lord Mayor has treatment in China, obviously human rights wasnt going to stop her. :cheers:

Its called survival.. those who bleat about it wouldnt turn down a new heart & lungs grown that way if it was to save their or their kids life.

Just that people dont have anything better to do but moan.

Human rights is a load of bollocks.
Those usually affected by human rights are nothing more than scavangers of the human race who have nothing to offer but to leech & waste resources.

Quote from: Eggtastico

Quote from: PrivateerIf a British Lord Mayor has treatment in China, obviously human rights wasnt going to stop her. :cheers:

Its called survival.. those who bleat about it wouldnt turn down a new heart & lungs grown that way if it was to save their or their kids life.

Just that people dont have anything better to do but moan.

Human rights is a load of bollocks.
Those usually affected by human rights are nothing more than scavangers of the human race who have nothing to offer but to leech & waste resources.

:thumbup:

great news.
NAME: Donald Maricelli

AGE: 54

COUNTRY: USA

DIAGNOSIS: Spinal Cord Injury

REASON FOR COMING TO TREATMENT: In 2002 Donald suffered from a fall and injury, which resulted in a lack of sensation in his legs and a lack of strength. In 2003 he was diagnosed with a herniation of T10-11 and underwent an operation to correct this problem. Unfortunately, the operation was not successful and left him in a worse state than he was before; his lower extremities were completely paralyzed. Since then he has done extensive physical therapy and has regained much of his ability to move and some sensations. However he was still unable to walk unaided. Before the injury Donald was an active member of his community both through his job and community organizations. After his injury he could only participate in these activities to a limited extant and could no longer go to work.
TREATMENT: Umbilical Cord Stem Cell and Nerve Growth Factor Injections with Rehabilitation Therapy.

START OF TREATMENT: November 27, 2007

 AFTER THE TREATMENT: After the completion of his treatment, Donald had experience several significant improvements that he felt would have a major impact on his standard of living. He regained the sensation throughout most of his abdomen, and the sensation in his legs also improved. Particularly important, the sensation on the bottom of his feet came back, helping him to walk without tripping. Most important to Donald was that he regained control and strength in his left leg. He was able to pick it up off the ground, for extended periods of time and was able to lift his foot and toes. All these improvements combined to help him be able to walk for significant distances and stand for long periods of time. Before the treatment, walking 20ft by himself would have taken great effort, but after the treatment he was able to walk distances of over 200ft without holding onto anything.

http://www.stemcellschina.com/content/view/809/15/lang,en/

Ive just spoken to  David Blair hes still very happy, hes improved, but it cost him £12000, I was expecting him to say 2000, but what its given him has no price.

Quote from: Privateerhttp://www.stemcellschina.com/content/view/809/15/lang,en/

Try looking on other sites, its far too easy for them to give the successful cases while ignoring the failures.

As for the rest, there is the problem of desperation, and you are desperate for a cure. The problem seems to be you dont have the dosh available.

heres a independant report about China.
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/07_07/b4021061.htm

Stem-Cell Refugees
Yanks are flocking to China for therapy

SUCCESS STORIES
Good or bad, Chinas clinical work is already cutting-edge. More than 100 Chinese hospitals are currently performing stem cell procedures, according to Jon Hakim, a Minnesota native who has been appointed director of the foreign patient services department at Beike, helping Nanshan Hospital recruit patients. Since opening up to foreigners about a year ago, Beike has treated 170 of them from 29 countries. Like Melton, most of them find out about Beike from the Internet, and many write their own blogs in China and after they return home. In addition to spinal cord injuries, doctors treat multiple sclerosis, cerebral palsy, and ataxia, a genetic disease that leads to deterioration of muscle function. While undergoing stem cell treatment, patients may also receive physical therapy, acupuncture, massage, drugs, and electrical stimulation. The average price tag: $17,000, plus airfare

Richards Venture to China for Stem Cell Therapy
http://richardsventure.blogspot.com/2007/09/international-ataxia-awareness-day.html

another blog.
Ive aplied to my bank for a loan, China is calling.
Stem Cell Treatment for Ataxia
Before leaving Canada, I had an email discussion with a stem cell researcher in USA. He is not connected with this treatment and cannot endorse it. However, he did give me some inputs on the questions I should ask the doctors in China. It was reassuring that I did not hear any horror stories. I am really hopeful that the China approach will get accepted by Canada/USA before long. In USA, they are waiting for a new administration post-Bush. And in Canada, they are probably waiting for the Americans to say yes.
http://stemcellataxia.blogspot.com/2008/01/its-friday-am-in-india.html

Good hope u get a loan, couldnt you get some money from NHL as they cannot themselves give you the treatment ?

a email to my sister.
From: Brian McNeill
To: Janean Dunn
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 12:16 PM
Subject: RE: Stem cell treatment China


Hi Janean,
 
Sorry to hear of you and your brothers illness ( same as me SCA1 )
 
Yes I do the arrangements for Beike company in China. I have also been for stem cells in China and found it to have had a great effect on my speech, co-ordination, energy and balance (balance improved but not as good as the other ailments? ) It is now 10 months since my treatment and I still feel better now than when I went there. I have just spoken to an Indian/Canadian guy who has just returned from China and he also said he has the same improvements as me, he also has SCA1.
 
I will attach informations about the treatment and costs, also there is an application form called, patient information which needs to be filled in and returned to me on-line so that I can give it to the doctors in China for you to be assessed.
 
Also if you have any questions or wish to talk to me personally, you can call me on; 01880820529
 
The cost just now is $23,300 for the treatment, you need to make your own travel arrangements but will be collected and returned to the airport. I have attached 2 patient application forms for you and your brother.
 
Regards,



B MacNeill

So which bank are you going to rob?

Does anyone have any idea if these "fixes" are long term or will they wear off in a year or two?

nice money crash. Hold off a few months & that $23k will be nearer £10k

Quote from: Eggtasticonice money crash. Hold off a few months & that $23k will be nearer £10k

i cant, time is my enemy now.

Quote from: bearGood hope u get a loan, couldnt you get some money from NHL as they cannot themselves give you the treatment ?

sh*t, the  bank said no

If you dont mind me asking what specific type of Ataxia do you have?

Quote from: Chris HIf you dont mind me asking what specific type of Ataxia do you have?

SPINOCEREBELLAR ATAXIA 1; SCA1

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/dispomim.cgi?id=164400

the shocking prices.

Basic Treatment Program   4 SCT (20day)
US Dollar   20K
   
5 SCT (25day)
23.3K

4 SCT+Surgery (35day)
29.5K

6 SCT(30day)
26.5K

7 SCT (35day)   Extra inj Book Advance(2-5day)
29.3K   3.5K

Stem Cell Types:
We utilize Umbilical Cord Stem Cells exclusively. A baby's umbilical cord is a rich source of stem cells. These cells are the basic building blocks of the human body and are able to transform into other types of cells, such as bone, heart, muscle, and nerve cells. Our transfusions consist of three subsets of stem cells known as CD34+, CD133, and Mesenchymal stem cells. CD34+ and CD133 cells have been shown in numerous studies to be prone towards becoming tissue.
Mesenchymals have been found to be inclined to become numerous types of cells, including but not limited to chondrocytes (a type of cell critical to tissue renewal, particularly cartilage), liver cells, kidney cells, and neurons. Lab tests have also indicated that as Mesenchymal stem cells combine with other cells (such as CD34+ and CD133) they will boost the transformation process of other stem cells. These Mesenchymals also appear to be able to conduct repairs in relation to vascular disorders within the brain, ocular areas, and throughout the body, including but not limited to the heart, kidney, and pancreas.
For more information about Beike Biotech and its stem cell technologies, please visit www.beikebiotech.com

   
Thats why only the Chinese do it they use Umbilical Cord Stem Cells, as people know bush vitod it and made it illegal.

Quote from: PrivateerThats why only the Chinese do it they use Umbilical Cord Stem Cells, as people know bush vitod it and made it illegal.

Im very puzzled you believe that. UMSCs arent regarded as part of the baby, it survives very well without it once born, so there should be no problem with treatments being developed that utilize them.

just worked it out, its the suing culture, if it didnt work I could sue, in China it would get thrown out.

Quote from: Privateer

Quote from: zpyderI hate to be such a downer, but the thing that gets me about that site is, the fact that publications like New Scientist, which though glossy, tend to contain the groundbreaking news stories of the science world. They frequently publish articles on stem cell research.

However the latest issues all detail some form of stem cell research still at the lab and test rat/mouse stage. The closest I think I can remember to human trials was a statement that a technique mentioned would be ready in a couple of years for human trials. That site is, to me, the equivalent of a website being made 5 years ago advertising todays modern tech computers. Its possible, but not available quite yet. If it was it would have been on the BBC and all other major news channels much like Dolly the sheep. The labs leading the forefront of this kind of research are striving to be the first to achieve their goals, the second they can itll hit international headlines, not a website that is linked to on a forum...

It could of course be that these different patient reports are the result of trials that arent of the standard required for true scientific recognition. A lack of control groups and proper protocols etc. But then if this is the case, you have to ask yourself how many more people took part in the trials with no signs of treatment effect on them, or even negative effects, which the site may exclude from publishing.

if you were in my shoes, you might see things differently, some people have severe reactions, but I m at the stage where nothing matters

You clearly hold your kids in high regard then.

Id rather live 20 years disabled with my children, than die because of impatience and never have the chance to see my children grow up.

Quote from: M3ta7h3ad

Quote from: Privateer

Quote from: zpyderI hate to be such a downer, but the thing that gets me about that site is, the fact that publications like New Scientist, which though glossy, tend to contain the groundbreaking news stories of the science world. They frequently publish articles on stem cell research.

However the latest issues all detail some form of stem cell research still at the lab and test rat/mouse stage. The closest I think I can remember to human trials was a statement that a technique mentioned would be ready in a couple of years for human trials. That site is, to me, the equivalent of a website being made 5 years ago advertising todays modern tech computers. Its possible, but not available quite yet. If it was it would have been on the BBC and all other major news channels much like Dolly the sheep. The labs leading the forefront of this kind of research are striving to be the first to achieve their goals, the second they can itll hit international headlines, not a website that is linked to on a forum...

It could of course be that these different patient reports are the result of trials that arent of the standard required for true scientific recognition. A lack of control groups and proper protocols etc. But then if this is the case, you have to ask yourself how many more people took part in the trials with no signs of treatment effect on them, or even negative effects, which the site may exclude from publishing.

if you were in my shoes, you might see things differently, some people have severe reactions, but I m at the stage where nothing matters

You clearly hold your kids in high regard then.

Id rather live 20 years disabled with my children, than die because of impatience and never have the chance to see my children grow up.

ok

That reminds me, I must sign a living will.

Longest email ever, but it from my China contact.


Ataxia Treatment with Stem Cells

Contents

1.      Opening remarks

2.      Types of Ataxia that are treatable

3.      Pricing information

4.      Related articles of interest

 

The word "ataxia" comes from the Greek word "a taxis" which translates to "lack of order".  The word ataxia has come over time to mean "without coordination".  We at Beike are extremely proud of our work with patients suffering from this disorder.  Over the years we have treated a wide array of Ataxia "types" including but not limited to those you will see below as well as "Sporadic Ataxia".  Our patients typically respond quickly and some even dramatically to treatment.  Review of our patient data reveals that 9 out of 10 of our patients with Ataxia see measurable improvements prior to discharge.  

Ataxia is in fact a neurological sign and/or symptom consisting of gross in-coordination of muscle movements.   It is a non specific clinical manifestation which defines a dysfunction of parts of the nervous system that coordinate movement, such as the cerebellum.  Individuals with ataxia have problems with coordination because parts of the nervous system that control movement and balance are affected. Ataxia may affect the fingers, hands, arms, legs, body, speech, and eye movements.

In this age the term ataxia is often used to describe a symptom which can be associated with infections, injuries, other diseases, or degenerative changes in the central nervous system. Ataxia is also used to denote a group of specific degenerative diseases of the nervous system called the hereditary and sporadic ataxias.  Several possible causes exist for these patterns of neurological dysfunction.

 

 

If you do not see your diagnosis mentioned here please ask your consultant for further information as we have many pre-formatted and specialized templates on a wide array of frequently treated disorders.

 

Cerebellar ataxia

The term Cerebellar Ataxia is used in reference to ataxia secondary to a primary dysfunction of the cerebellum. This is the type of Ataxia the majority of our patients come to us with.  How the patients abnormalities manifest depend on which cerebellar structures are lesioned, and whether the lesion is bilateral or unilateral. Each patient presents with his or her own unique pattern of cerebullar involvement.  Vestibulo-cerebellar dysfunction presents itself most often in patients where the person tends to separate the feet upon standing to gain a wider base.  This carries over when walking and presents with a wide-based "drunken sailor" gait.  

Cerebro-cerebellar dysfunction often presents with disturbances in carrying out voluntary movements, including tremors possibly even involving the head and eyes as well as the limbs and torso.  Writing abnormalities (large, unequal letters, irregular underlining) are also frequently noted as well as a pattern of dysarthria (slurred speech).  Pre and post evaluations have shown that all these areas can be improved upon through the combination treatment we offer.

 

Hereditary Ataxias

Ataxia may be a result of a hereditary disorder in which degeneration of the cerebellum and/or of the spine is present.  We have found within our work that most cases involve both to a certain extent.  Hereditary disorders causing ataxia include but are not limited to autosomal dominant disorders such as Spinocerebellar Ataxia, Episodic Ataxia as well as autosomal recessive disorders such as Friedreichs Ataxia.

 

Spinocerebellar Atrophy and Spinocerebellar Degeneration

Spinocerebellar Ataxia Types 1 and 2, Sporadic Spinocerebellar Ataxia Types 2 and 3

Ataxia often occurs when parts of the nervous system that control movement are damaged. People with ataxia experience a failure of muscle control in their arms and legs, resulting in a lack of balance and coordination or a disturbance of gait. While the term ataxia is primarily used to describe this set of symptoms, it is sometimes also used to refer to a family of disorders. It is not, however, a specific diagnosis.  Most disorders that result in ataxia cause cells in the part of the brain called the cerebellum to degenerate, or atrophy. Sometimes the spine is also affected. The phrases cerebellar degeneration and spinocerebellar degeneration are used to describe changes that have taken place in a person's nervous system; neither term constitutes a specific diagnosis. Cerebellar and spinocerebellar degeneration have many different causes. The age of onset of the resulting ataxia varies depending on the underlying cause of the degeneration.

 

Many ataxias are hereditary and are classified by chromosomal location and pattern of inheritance: autosomal dominant, in which the affected person inherits a normal gene from one parent and a faulty gene from the other parent; and autosomal recessive, in which both parents pass on a copy of the faulty gene. Among the more common inherited ataxias are Friedreich's ataxia and Machado-Joseph disease. Sporadic ataxias can also occur in families with no prior history.

 

Acquired Ataxia

Ataxia can also be acquired. Conditions that can cause acquired ataxia include stroke, multiple sclerosis, tumors, alcoholism, peripheral neuropathy, metabolic disorders, and vitamin deficiencies.

 

Machado-Joseph disease (MJD) (spinocerebellar ataxia type 3-is a rare hereditary ataxia)

The disease is characterized by clumsiness and weakness in the arms and legs, spasticity, a staggering lurching gait easily mistaken for drunkenness, difficulty with speech and swallowing, involuntary eye movements, double vision, and frequent urination. Some patients have dystonia (sustained muscle contractions that cause twisting of the body and limbs, repetitive movements, abnormal postures, and/or rigidity) or symptoms similar to those of Parkinsons disease. Others have twitching of the face or tongue, or peculiar bulging eyes.

 

Olivopontocerebellar Atrophy

OPCA is a term that describes the degeneration of neurons in specific areas of the brain – the cerebellum, pons, and inferior olives.  OPCA is present in several neurodegenerative syndromes, including inherited and non-inherited forms of ataxia (such as the hereditary spinocerebellar ataxia known as Machado-Joseph disease) and multiple system atrophy (MSA), with which it is primarily associated.

 

Early Stage Ataxia Telangiectasia
Ataxia-telangiectasia is a rare, childhood neurological disorder that causes degeneration in the part of the brain that controls motor movements and speech. Its most unusual symptom is an acute sensitivity to ionizing radiation, such as X-rays or gamma-rays. The first signs of the disease, which include delayed development of motor skills, poor balance, and slurred speech, usually occur during the first decade of life. Telangiectasias (tiny, red "spider" veins), which appear in the corners of the eyes or on the surface of the ears and cheeks, are characteristic of the disease, but are not always present and generally do not appear in the first years of life.

 

 

I am now your personal medical consultant and contact person.  You can reach me at westwellness@hotmail.com.   Please let me know if you have any further questions.

 

In Health ... Dr. Monique West

 

 

 

Prices for Beike Biotech Stem Cell Treatments

 

The following prices are valid from December 15th 2007 to March 15th 2008.

Please Note: Prices for treatments in China are reviewed on a quarterly basis and are therefore subject to change.  

Previous prices do not apply for anyone arriving after December 15th, 2007.

 

Basic treatment program (20 to 35 days):  

The choice of how many SCT's to have is ultimately up to the client but we do advise that you follow the recommendations of your medical consultant.

> 4 SCT's are $20,000.00 USD (20K) ...20 day stay

> 5 SCT's are $23,300.00 USD (23.3K) this is a savings of $200.00 USD if the arrangements for 5 SCT's are made at the time of your registration ...25 day stay

> 6 SCT's are $26,300.00 USD (26.3K) this is a savings of $700.00 USD if the arrangements for 6 SCT's are made at the time of your registration ...30 day stay

> 7 SCT's are $29,300.00 USD (29.3K) this saves you a total of $1200.00 USD if the arrangements for 7 SCT's are made at the time of your registration ...35 day stay

 

**These discounts do not apply if you wait until you are on site to opt for additional stem cell transfusions**  

 

NOTE:

Each transfusion contains approximately 10 to 15 million stem cells.  Along with each transfusion patients are also given a transfusion of Neural Growth Factors.  Transfusions are given IV and/or via transfusion into the Cerebral Spinal Fluid.  This determination is made on site by the treating medical team.  

 

 

Included are free transportation to and from the hospital and the local airport (certain exceptions do apply please see notes below) and free accommodations at the hospital for the client and one caregiver.  We also offer a complementary rehabilitation program.  This therapy which is customized for each individual patient is provided free of charge and may be 2 to 4 hours done 4 to 6 times per week depending on the patient's ability to participate (Sunday's off).  Meals and laundry service are not included.  Meals are not served at hospitals in China. You can have your laundry picked up and done by an outside service at a reasonably low price.

 

You can request if you wish to have all stem cell transplants by IV only.

 

* Additional transfusions booked at least one month prior to treatment (this is on a case by case basis depending on room availability) are US $3,500 each.  Each transfusion may require an additional 2-5 days in the hospital.  This option is only available to those already participating in a full treatment program.

 

** If you opt for additional transfusions outside of the above parameters and/or during your hospital stay they will be $3,900 US each.  This may require an additional time in the hospital and/or that you stay in a hotel near the hospital, which would be at your own cost.  This option is only available to those already participating in a full treatment program.

 

 

Bone Marrow Surgery: there is an additional cost of $5000.00 USD for this procedure if booked at the time of your registration.  If booked on site the cost is $5500.00 USD.  If you are interested in obtaining this in addition to the above treatment please let us know at the time of your registration.  This procedure is only available at Shenyang Hospital and is only available to those already undergoing a full treatment program.  We must know at the time of your booking if you wish to have this procedure.  This option is only available to those already participating in a full treatment program.  For more information on this procedure please ask your medical consultant.

This procedure is not suitable for children.

 

Transportation by ambulance; if you are not able to be transported in a van and will require transport by ambulance there is an additional cost of $800.00USD per trip (one way).  This must be arranged for in advance so please let us know if this is a concern for you.

 

Electric Wheelchairs; We advise that you bring the lightest and most compact chair you have.  Large, heavy, non-folding or non-collapsing chairs are very difficult to travel with and to transport in our SUV type vans which do not have ramps or lifts.

Shanghai Airport; if you are traveling to Hang Zhou City for your treatment and wish to fly into Shanghai rather than Hang Zhou we can arrange pick up and transport for you.  There is an additional round trip fee of $450.00 USD for this service. We do not advise that you take this option during winter months as the road is occasionally closed due to severe weather conditions and this might strand you in Shanghai for a day or two.
Hang Zhou's Xiashan Hospital; currently this is the only location with a "handicap" van equipped with a lift.

PLEASE NOTE:

A deposit of approximately 20% is required to be made within two weeks of booking your treatment.  Deposits are considered non-refundable except in the case of medical / emergency situations and proper documentation of such must be supplied and verified.  Should a refund be issued you will be expected to pay all banking fees which apply to all transactions.
We have a flat transaction fee of $100 per transaction that will be charged to the client.  This is a pre-set "penalty and processing fee" for cancellations and refund transactions.  A transaction is each time money has been moved into our account and when we have to move it back out as a refund.  
If you wish to apply for a refund you must do so at least 30 days prior to your arrival date.   No refunds are given within 30 days of your arrival date.  
If for any reason you cancel within the 30 day time frame no refund will be granted.  If a medical emergency arises and you are unable to travel and the proper documentation is supplied we can and will rebook you.  If this should occur there may be a rebooking fee of $1000.00 which must be paid prior to new treatment dates being given.
If you need to rearrange your dates after your original booking we will be happy to carry over your deposit to your new travel dates.  However all payment due dates will remain unchanged.
Your final payment is due 30 days prior to your arrival date. We will give you exact due dates at the time of your registration.
If during your hospital stay you become ill and/or require medical treatment as a result of something other than an issue related to the stem cell treatment you will be responsible for the payment of the additional care to the hospital.
If for some reason you opt to extend your stay in the hospital please note that you may be charged an additional $200.00 USD per day for hospital fees.
 

Prices for treatments in China are reviewed on a quarterly basis and are therefore subject to change.  As the market value of the "dollar" changes in relation to China's currency of RMB we must alter the prices in USD to match its relational value to the RMB.  Please note that while it may seem as if the price is increasing it is in fact not as the prices are keep stable in RMB currency.  Rather it is the currency exchange rate which is constantly changing and we must alter our quoted prices to reflect this.  All prices are set in USD as it is considered to be the standard world exchange and therefore all payments must be made in US Dollars.  We find it best to review prices every three months and make adjustments on a quarterly basis.

 

 

Extended Family of Six Canadians All Improve their Quality of Life with Stem Cell Treatment in China

 

Shenzhen, CHINA – September 18th, 2006 -- Shenzhen Beike Biotechnology Co., Ltd. (Beike) announced the successful treatment of a family of six related Canadians all suffering from Spinocerebellar Ataxia Type 2 (SCA2), a debilitating disease characterized by general slowing of some of the body's normal processes.  The six relatives, ranging in age from 19 to 51, all recorded significant improvements in their quality of life after receiving treatment with stem cells at the Nanshan Hospital in Shenzhen, China.  The announcement comes one month after the last relative comfortably reached home in Canada.  Details can be found on the website, http://www.stemcellschina.com.

In April 2006, Beike provided umbilical cord stem cells to treat 45 year old Timothy Graf and his 19 year old daughter Kymberly, who traveled from their home in Saskatoon, Canada to Shenzhen, China for the procedure.  While Tim was only beginning to feel the effects of SCA2, his daughter had already experienced symptoms for nearly 6 years, making bodily coordination difficult and affecting her studies at the University. Both father and daughter underwent the same treatment consisting of injections of umbilical cord stem cells intravenously and into the cerebral spinal cord fluid.  The treatment took place over a one month period and included daily rehabilitation therapy.  

Encouraged by Tim and Kymberly's improvements during their treatment and suffering from the same disease, Tim's brother Keith Graf (44) and cousin Brian Knoblauch (48) immediately made plans to go to China, arriving at the end of their treatment term in April. Tim's cousin Val Crowter and her son Jason, also suffering from Spinocerebellar Ataxia, arrived in June for treatment after contacting Tim and hearing the encouraging news.  Due to national regulations, none of the 6 patients could receive treatment in Canada.  All of the six had seen doctors in Canada, but each was told that there was nothing that could be done to treat the disease in North America.  While they all had the same hereditary disease, their symptoms were slightly different with each at different levels of progression.  

Tim Graf said "I have seen my relatives suffer from this disease and pass away after doctors in Canada said there was nothing you can do.  Well we did something and it seems at least for now, it has given all of my relatives some improvement in life quality and some hope.  I doubt we will be the last of our relatives to get this treatment"

Treatments for leukemia and other diseases with umbilical cord blood stem cells have been performed for years.  However, the treatment of stroke patients, spinal injury patients, and those with other neurological diseases with stem cells from human umbilical cords has only recently become popular.  Today, treatments for neurological diseases using umbilical cord blood is being taken forward by countries outside the United States, including China, as FDA approval takes longer.  

Tim Graf felt improvement in energy, walking upstairs, balance, and in his ability to focus on objects for longer periods of time.  Tim's daughter Kymberly Graf improved her speech, walking, balance, and ability to type.  She also lost much of the starry-eyed look associated with Ataxia.  Keith Graf also lost the starry-eyed look and improved his stability.  Brian Knoblauch was relieved of all of his muscular cramps, which had been bothering him for over a decade. His speech and balance also improved. Val Crowter was able to get rid of most of the cramps that had bothered her for years as well as improve her walking and speech. She was able to write her name for the first time in a long time as well.  Her son Jason's writing also improved along with his balance and his speaking.  Most of his cramping also disappeared. More specific details on the patient's progress can be found at http://www.stemcellschina.com.

Charlene Toop, Brian Knoblauch's wife said, "When Brian came home, I noticed some real changes. I couldn't hear him walking about the house any more since he stopped his usual manner of walking on his heels.  His speech improved greatly and he started carrying cups of beverages without spilling them, although he still pretends to shake once in awhile though when he wants me to bring him coffee down to the basement. I am just happy that he is better, so I pretend to believe him and oblige."

Val Crowter said, "When I heard my relatives had gone to China and had such good results, I thought I would go and try. And I am thankful that I did as these cramps have been bothering me so much for so many years. I still have some in my hands and feet but I can tell you its like night and day, and I am sleeping better than I have for years."

Dr. Sean Hu, chairman of Beike, said, "After seeing the results for Tim and Kymberly, we were pretty confident that the rest of the family members would show improvement since they were related and all had the same genetic disease.  In fact, so far all of the Ataxia patients Beike has treated have seen improvement.  Although positive treatment effects do not always last, we are very happy Beike could make such a difference in the lives of this great group of relatives.

 

Raising Funds for Stem Cell Surgery
 
 

 

Wednesday, 09 May 2007
 

 Leader Post

Brad Suchans buddies hope their Friday night fundraiser will buy their Regina friend a ticket to China and to improved health.

Five years ago, Suchan was diagnosed with hereditary ataxia, a degenerative disease of the spinal cord or cerebellum. This fall hes planning to travel to China to have stem cell replacement surgery so that he can get his life back on track.

The condition attacks his nervous system, disrupting his balance and co-ordination and sidelining his sports life.

"I used to be able to play hockey, football, baseball, tennis - pretty much every sport," Suchan said. "If I play baseball I can hit, but its really hard to catch and Im unbalanced when I run."

The 28-year-olds speech is also affected.

"If Im with people that I dont know, people think Im drunk because I slur sometimes," Suchan said. "My mom had it and she passed away in 1989."

Suchans Regina neurologist has told him theres nothing that can be done to cure him of the symptoms. But since his cousin and uncle also have hereditary ataxia, Suchan has heard of some options.

His cousin wasnt prepared to let the disease take its course so he went to Shen Zhen, China for stem cell replacement surgery about three years ago.

"My cousin was worse than I am - he always had to repeat what he was saying because people couldnt understand him," Suchan said. "My driving is getting worse and his is back to normal now. People who were paralysed with this can now walk."

He plans to go to China for the treatment in the fall.

"You get stem cell replacements once a week for five weeks and then youre there to recover for a couple of days and then you fly back and recover for another six weeks," Suchan said.

Since the treatment is considered experimental, its not being done in Canada and Suchan cant tap into any government funding to pay for his flight or for those who accompany him. Not only does he have to come up with money for travel and his relatives accommodations, but the regimen is pricey.

"The surgery alone is $25,000," Suchan said.

Thats where his friends hope to help.

Greg Hern and nine other buddies are holding a fundraiser dinner and cabaret on Friday night at the Turvey Centre.

"Weve got some prizes donated - like an autographed (Saskatchewan Roughriders) jersey, a centralized air conditioner that were going to auction off and a Jon Ryan autographed framed picture from him in Green Bay," Hern said. "The larger items will be for a silent auction. We want to raise as much money as possible."

The group of friends sold 275 supper tickets for $30 each before the Tuesday deadline. They hope that the Turvey Centre will be packed for the cabaret. The $10 tickets will be available at the door.  

Buddies for more than 15 years, Hern met Suchan playing hockey.

"We want to help out Brad - hed do it for us," Hern said.
 

 

Ex-Mayor Audrey in fight for life      

6/12/2007

A FORMER Lord Mayor of Manchester is to undergo pioneering stem cell treatment in China in a bid to halt an otherwise fatal brain disease.
Councillor Audrey Jones, who helped to co-found the South Manchester Reporter in the 1970s, has been diagnosed with cerebellar atrophy, a rare progressive condition with symptoms likened to motor neurone disease.
She said: "It's like a death sentence with no respite."
Accompanied by her husband Ray, the mother of four grown-up children will fly to China on January 9 where 30 days of treatment in hospital at Qingdao, east of the Chinese capital Beijing, is due to begin the following day.
When Coun Jones, who lives on Heaton Road, Withington, became Manchester's first Liberal Democrat Lord Mayor in 2003, she was already suffering from early symptoms of her illness but it was not fully diagnosed until November of last year.
"I had a cataract operation before my term in office after which my eyes didn't seem to work together, making it difficult to read," she said.
"While I was Lord Mayor my attendants knew I had difficulty with co-ordination because I couldn't walk up or down steps unless they held my arm, but we managed and it was not obvious to anyone else that there was something wrong with me.
"When they finally put a name to my condition I was shocked and depressed because there is no cure.
"The doctor at Manchester Royal Infirmary said I would need stem cell treatment but it would not be ready in this country in my lifetime.
"The worst aspect is that, over time, I will lose all voluntary movement. My doctor says it is progressing slowly, but I don't think so. When I was diagnosed a year ago I could walk. Now I can only do so with great difficulty, holding on to someone."
Her daughter Helen, who had been Lady Mayoress when Coun Jones was first citizen, was sent a newspaper article by her mother-in-law in Scotland about a man who had received successful stem cell treatment in China.
"I contacted the chap in the article and he put us in touch with the Chinese authorities," said Coun Jones.
"It may not work for me," she added ruefully. "And if it doesn't work, that's my last chance. But I have to be optimistic."
Coun Jones has begun the process of resigning her council seat in the city's Withington ward, which she has held for almost 30 years.
She was Manchester's first Liberal councillor of the modern era and for a time was the party's only elected representative at the town hall.
"That was a tough time," she said.
Before becoming Lord Mayor she had sought nomination for the post more than a dozen times, determined each year to challenge Labour's monopoly of the position. Eventually a proportionality deal was struck in 2002 and Coun Jones at last realised her ambition.
She chose not to return to her profession in pharmaceutical research after raising her family but instead co-founded the South Manchester Reporter as a community newspaper in the late 1970s. It is now owned by the Guardian Media Group.
Father's Quest for a Few More Years

 
 
 
Journal Live

By Jane Hall
   
A MAN dying of a degenerative brain disease will today start controversial stem cell treatment in an effort to gain precious extra years with his family.

Scott Nugent, 35, from Whitley Bay, North Tyneside, last week flew to China for the month long treatment which could change his life forever.

And today he will have the first of four injections he hopes will prolong his life long enough to see two-year-old son George grow up.

Mr Nugent suffers from the rare inherited genetic disorder spinocerebellar ataxia - which has claimed the lives of his eight-month-old son Oliver and mother June, 58.

There is no cure or treatment for the illness, which leaves sufferers unable to walk, talk, eat or see. But Chinese doctors working for the Bieke Corporation have had some success with stem cell treatment in easing the symptoms for other ataxia victims.

Mr Nugent's wife Louise, 37, a former primary school teacher who now cares for Scott and George full-time, said last night the family had every faith that the procedure would give her husband back his life.

"The doctor treating Scott has told him he has recently treated three or four other British people who suffer from ataxia and that they had shown improvement. Scott is in good spirits and wanting to get on with the treatment. People keep asking if we are worried about it and I keep saying we were more worried about the long journey from Newcastle to China.

"I don't know if we are being naive in not being worried, but we have every faith in the hospital and its staff."

Mr Nugent is being treated in HangZhou, 112 miles from Shanghai, at a cost of ?14,000, raised with the help of Journal readers, family and friends.

Stem cell treatment is currently only available in China. The procedure involves Mr Nugent being injected four times over four weeks with stem cells taken from the umbilical cords of healthy full-term babies in an attempt to repair his damaged brain cells.

The former software engineer for Vickers in Scotswood, Newcastle, first began displaying the symptoms of spinocerebellar ataxia when he was 24. Today Mr Nugent, who should be looking forward to the best years of his life, is having to face up to his own mortality as his nerve endings are slowly destroyed and his body shuts down.

Both Mr and Mrs Nugent know the stem treatment will not be a cure. But as he prepared to fly to China last week, Mr Nugent told The Journal: "This is a journey I have to make. There is no hope otherwise. I can't get the treatment done in the UK or Europe, so I've got to go to China.

"I am desperate, really desperate. I just want to prolong my life for Louise and George. I am scared to leave George early.

"I don't want to lie in bed dying. I want some extra years, even if it's only two or three. It is going to be five years at least before treatment currently being researched here will be viable for me, but I don't have that sort of time."

If all goes well Mr Nugent will fly back to the UK on August 11.

 

Below is Scott in China with Dr. Ma
 
 

 

 

August 13, 2007

Positive About Future
 
 

 

 
 
The Journal Live

by Chloe Griffiths
   
A TERMINALLY-ILL father has returned home from a trip to China after revolutionary medical treatment which he believes has given him precious extra years with his family.
 
Scott Nugent, from Whitley Bay, North Tyneside, flew into the North-East on Saturday after spending five weeks in the Far East undergoing ground-breaking stem cell treatment.

The 35-year-old suffers from the fatal genetic disorder Spinocerebella ataxia, and while there is no cure, Chinese doctors have had some success at relieving the symptoms.

Scott believes the treatment – which is not available anywhere else – will slow the rare neurological condition long enough for him to see his two-year-old son George grow up.

Yesterday, he was still recovering from an exhausting 32-hour journey home with his wife Louise, 37, a former primary school teacher, and son, but he told how he believes the treatment has given him a couple of extra years to spend with his family.

He said: "I'm extremely tired. The doctors said it would take about a week to get over the journey home and return to the levels I had reached, but by the time I left the hospital I was really pleased.

"I'm positive about the future. I feel like it's given me extra time – I hoped to have a couple of years, but now we think I could have three or four.

"I did all of this to spend extra time with my family and any improvement is worth the money and effort for me."

When Mr Nugent arrived in China, his co-ordination and mobility was assessed as just three out of a possible 56 on a scale used by doctors to measure his health. By the time he left he had risen to 25.

His speech and eyesight had also improved, and he could complete in 11 minutes a walk of five laps of the hospital which had previously taken him 18-and-a-half minutes

The stem cell treatment involved the former software engineer being injected four times over four weeks with stem cells taken from the umbilical cords of healthy, full-term babies in an attempt to repair his damaged brain cells. He also underwent intensive physiotherapy.

He said: "After each of the spinal injections I had to lie still for six hours, I couldn't move at all. I wasn't allowed to eat for three hours before and six hours after, so there was nine hours without food and drink.
 
"It was very hard, but I could see the improvements. If I went from a score of three to 25, then it was worth it."

But for the father the toughest part of the trip was being separated from his family.

"The hardest thing was being away from my family, I had no idea how difficult that would be. I'm so pleased to be back with them and back in the North-East."
 
Mr Nugent was treated in Hangzhou, 112 miles from Shanghai, at a cost of ?14,000 which was raised with the help of The Journal readers, family and friends.

He was accompanied by his friends Len Harvey and Steve Payne, and yesterday he paid them heartfelt thanks. He said: "I couldn't have managed without them. At first I didn't think I would need someone all the time, but they were a god-send.

"Without their help I don't know if I would have managed."

'You can't put a price on results'

THERE is no cure for the degenerative brain disease gripping Scott Nugent.

Sufferers of the fatal genetic disorder Spinocerebella ataxia are gradually unable to walk, talk, eat or see.

The rare neurological disorder has already claimed the lives of Mr Nugent's eight-month old son Oliver, and his mother June, 58.

There is no stem cell program for the treatment of disease in the UK, America or Europe, but Chinese doctors have had some success easing the symptoms for other ataxia victims using controversial stem cell treatment.

The procedure involves injecting stem cells from the umbilical cords of healthy, full-term babies into the bloodstream and base of the skull, accompanied by intensive physiotherapy.

Mr Nugent said: "There were a lot of children in the hospital.

"Seeing three or four-year-old children who couldn't walk was a very humbling experience.

"There was a lad from Hungary, only about four years old, who was completely paralyzed, but by the end he was walking about.

"People say it is a placebo, but how can that be the case with a four-year-old. It shows what it can achieve and you can't put a price on it."
 



 

About Beike Biotech Company Limited

Beike is a biotechnology company that was founded with capital from Beijing University, Hong Kong University of Science and Technology and Shenzhen City Hall. It is also supported with funds from the China State National Fund. The research and clinical work is a collaboration of Beijing University, Hong Kong University of Science and Technology, No. 3 Army Medical University, Zhongshan Medical University, Guiyang Medical College and Zhengzhou University.

 

 

These summaries significantly simplify the findings in the original studies. Like any overview of a complex topic, oversimplifications are inevitable. This document attempts to provide the most accurate information in easily understandable terms

Updated by Kirshner Ross-Vaden 12/16/07

Written and copyrighted by Kirshner Ross-Vaden RN 12/5/06 for the sole use of Beike Bio-Tech and Stem Cells China.

Any reproduction and/or use of this document by any other person and/or company is illegal.

All Beike health-related material is provided for information purposes only. This includes advice on the treatment and/or care of an individual patient obtained through consultation.

 

Longest...post...ever...

Quote from: M3ta7h3ad

Quote from: Privateer

Quote from: zpyderI hate to be such a downer, but the thing that gets me about that site is, the fact that publications like New Scientist, which though glossy, tend to contain the groundbreaking news stories of the science world. They frequently publish articles on stem cell research.

However the latest issues all detail some form of stem cell research still at the lab and test rat/mouse stage. The closest I think I can remember to human trials was a statement that a technique mentioned would be ready in a couple of years for human trials. That site is, to me, the equivalent of a website being made 5 years ago advertising todays modern tech computers. Its possible, but not available quite yet. If it was it would have been on the BBC and all other major news channels much like Dolly the sheep. The labs leading the forefront of this kind of research are striving to be the first to achieve their goals, the second they can itll hit international headlines, not a website that is linked to on a forum...

It could of course be that these different patient reports are the result of trials that arent of the standard required for true scientific recognition. A lack of control groups and proper protocols etc. But then if this is the case, you have to ask yourself how many more people took part in the trials with no signs of treatment effect on them, or even negative effects, which the site may exclude from publishing.

if you were in my shoes, you might see things differently, some people have severe reactions, but I m at the stage where nothing matters

You clearly hold your kids in high regard then.

Id rather live 20 years disabled with my children, than die because of impatience and never have the chance to see my children grow up.

I dont think any of us know what we would do in this situation

I know I would do everything in my power to try and find a way out

Quote from: Mark

Quote from: M3ta7h3ad

Quote from: Privateer

Quote from: zpyderI hate to be such a downer, but the thing that gets me about that site is, the fact that publications like New Scientist, which though glossy, tend to contain the groundbreaking news stories of the science world. They frequently publish articles on stem cell research.

However the latest issues all detail some form of stem cell research still at the lab and test rat/mouse stage. The closest I think I can remember to human trials was a statement that a technique mentioned would be ready in a couple of years for human trials. That site is, to me, the equivalent of a website being made 5 years ago advertising todays modern tech computers. Its possible, but not available quite yet. If it was it would have been on the BBC and all other major news channels much like Dolly the sheep. The labs leading the forefront of this kind of research are striving to be the first to achieve their goals, the second they can itll hit international headlines, not a website that is linked to on a forum...

It could of course be that these different patient reports are the result of trials that arent of the standard required for true scientific recognition. A lack of control groups and proper protocols etc. But then if this is the case, you have to ask yourself how many more people took part in the trials with no signs of treatment effect on them, or even negative effects, which the site may exclude from publishing.

if you were in my shoes, you might see things differently, some people have severe reactions, but I m at the stage where nothing matters

You clearly hold your kids in high regard then.

Id rather live 20 years disabled with my children, than die because of impatience and never have the chance to see my children grow up.

I dont think any of us know what we would do in this situation

I know I would do everything in my power to try and find a way out

mark falling over and not knowing why is so frustrating and getting up is nearly impossible, i carry a panic button all the time, I hope my trip to china fixes that.

Quote from: zpyderLongest...post...ever...

I think so, but as you can see your first opinions were wrong.

Im sorry if I was, and I hope I am, but Im waiting to hear from you after the treatment and for the reports on improving health before changing my opinion.

Blame it partly on my training to be overly critical about things :?

Anyway, bonne voyage and good luck. :thumbup:

who wants free accommodation in a hospital.

Quoteand free accommodations at the hospital for the client and one caregiver

All I need is help in the airport and on the plane.

Quote from: zpyderIm sorry if I was, and I hope I am, but Im waiting to hear from you after the treatment and for the reports on improving health before changing my opinion.

Blame it partly on my training to be overly critical about things :?

Anyway, bonne voyage and good luck. :thumbup:

they have a 9/10 success rate knowing my luck Ill add to their failure list.

but Im also a realist, Stem Cells are living, they have to do something.

Best of luck privateer - I really hope it works out for you.

When you going?

Quote from: Privateerbut Im also a realist, Stem Cells are living, they have to do something.

So is cabbage.

Im refraining from saying anything since its clearly important to you but if you do end up on their failure list - dont feel youre unlucky to be in the 1/10.  Instead question if theres really a 9/10 success rate and ask for your money back.

Hope it works for you either way :D

just spoken to him, they have treated over 2000 Ataxia patients, not 1 failure so far.

their failures are on ALS and cancer.

QuoteHi David,
 
Good news, you have been accepted for treatment.
 
I need to know now what date you want your treatment to start? When you have this date you will need to make a 20% deposit of your treatment costs within 2 weeks of agreeing the start date. Then the full payment for treatment must be made 3 weeks before your start date. The cost of the treatment is $26,300, when you have agreed a date with me my colleague in China will take over from me and agree which hospital is best suited to you.
 
regards,


B MacNeill

Quote from: Privateerjust spoken to him, they have treated over 2000 Ataxia patients, not 1 failure so far.

Theres very few things in medicine you can treat 2000 times and have 100% success rate.  Dude, you seriously have to ask some questions before you spend £12k youre borrowing from someone else on this.

Im guessing theres no failures because its not a cure/fail deal... any imporvement is a sucsess.... no matter how small.... and then theres the plecebo effect, people thinking theyre better than they really are.

privateer Ive got my fingers crossed for you that youre one of the ones who gets a LOT better :-)

Quote from: knightyIm guessing theres no failures because its not a cure/fail deal... any imporvement is a sucsess.... no matter how small.... and then theres the plecebo effect, people thinking theyre better than they really are.

privateer Ive got my fingers crossed for you that youre one of the ones who gets a LOT better :-)

youll know if it works, my fingers typing wont stop, more sh*t on its way.

Quote from: knightyIm guessing theres no failures because its not a cure/fail deal... any imporvement is a sucsess.... no matter how small.... and then theres the plecebo effect, people thinking theyre better than they really are.

Ive been reading up on this in the british medical journal this morning.  It seems the deal with Stem Cell injections from umbilical cords into the bloodstream and base of the skull does indeed help (not cure).

The most common documented case is the first lady who had it called Angie McDonald.  She had the injections at the end of 2005.  It did apparently mildly alleviate some symptoms.  The effects wear off after 8-12 months and more injections are required.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/4527744.stm

There seems mixed reports as to the effectiveness and its all a matter of degrees.  Some people have improved eye sight, improved speech, etc.  There doesnt seem to be any real downside backed up with anything more than speculation.

Most of the other reports are related to MS unfortunately.

What I hadnt realised is Ataxia is hereditary and theres a 50% chance of passing it on to your children.


I found this blog of someone currently going through the treatment fairly interesting and may be useful Privateer:
http://stemcellataxia.blogspot.com/

Quote from: SteveF

Quote from: knightyIm guessing theres no failures because its not a cure/fail deal... any imporvement is a sucsess.... no matter how small.... and then theres the plecebo effect, people thinking theyre better than they really are.

Ive been reading up on this in the british medical journal this morning.  It seems the deal with Stem Cell injections from umbilical cords into the bloodstream and base of the skull does indeed help (not cure).

The most common documented case is the first lady who had it called Angie McDonald.  She had the injections at the end of 2005.  It did apparently mildly alleviate some symptoms.  The effects wear off after 8-12 months and more injections are required.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/4527744.stm

There seems mixed reports as to the effectiveness and its all a matter of degrees.  Some people have improved eye sight, improved speech, etc.  There doesnt seem to be any real downside backed up with anything more than speculation.

Most of the other reports are related to MS unfortunately.

What I hadnt realised is Ataxia is hereditary and theres a 50% chance of passing it on to your children.


I found this blog of someone currently going thr
ough the treatment fairly interesting and may be useful Privateer:
http://stemcellataxia.blogspot.com/

ive read that blogg thanks for looking.
the newer injections last longer, ive been told, also in our family its Dominent, we call it the Scott disease, so far every Scott blood relation has Ataxia,  my mum died from Ataxia her brother used to  Fly for SA  airways, hes dead now, my 4 couzins have it, my sister has it shes 48 now, she had no kids to stop it, I had a test done on  my 2, the Doctors cant tell me, legal reasons, but the evidence is to strong to sugest they migh escape it, INHO the doctors have 25 years to find a cure.

My uncle Ivan had it, they put him in a looney bin, my grandad Scott had it Aswell, it all came from him and his family.

The doctors cant tell you the results of the test on your own kids as to whether theyll develop Ataxia or not? If so thats a bit harsh.

Quote from: Chris HThe doctors cant tell you the results of the test on your own kids as to whether theyll develop Ataxia or not? If so thats a bit harsh.

bloody legal stuff, we can go back on their 16th birthdays.

my two fight like hell, imagine if one knew she had Ataxia and the other didnt, I think thats the legal issue.

Quote from: M3ta7h3ad

Quote from: Privateer

Quote from: zpyderI hate to be such a downer, but the thing that gets me about that site is, the fact that publications like New Scientist, which though glossy, tend to contain the groundbreaking news stories of the science world. They frequently publish articles on stem cell research.

However the latest issues all detail some form of stem cell research still at the lab and test rat/mouse stage. The closest I think I can remember to human trials was a statement that a technique mentioned would be ready in a couple of years for human trials. That site is, to me, the equivalent of a website being made 5 years ago advertising todays modern tech computers. Its possible, but not available quite yet. If it was it would have been on the BBC and all other major news channels much like Dolly the sheep. The labs leading the forefront of this kind of research are striving to be the first to achieve their goals, the second they can itll hit international headlines, not a website that is linked to on a forum...

It could of course be that these different patient reports are the result of trials that arent of the standard required for true scientific recognition. A lack of control groups and proper protocols etc. But then if this is the case, you have to ask yourself how many more people took part in the trials with no signs of treatment effect on them, or even negative effects, which the site may exclude from publishing.

if you were in my shoes, you might see things differently, some people have severe reactions, but I m at the stage where nothing matters

You clearly hold your kids in high regard then.

Id rather live 20 years disabled with my children, than die because of impatience and never have the chance to see my children grow up.

Theres no evidence of bad stem cell, in fact my kids are very exited,
Suzanne Shaw won dancing on ice, to win she risked death and brain injury and has a 4 year old, pick on her.

oops! Im in big big sh*t again, Jess wont talk to me, Im in the Paper today, it mention my mum died and my kids might have Ataxia, my dad remaried so my step mum was a issue not mentioned to them.

I hope the publicity gets you some help

Quote from: MarkI hope the publicity gets you some help

a costly mistake if nothing happens.

Yes, best of luck with this, you know what they say about publicity - its all good.

Quote from: Privateer

Quote from: MarkI hope the publicity gets you some help

a costly mistake if nothing happens.

Still, if theres a chance you may as well go for it. It would be awesome if you even got a bit of respite

Quote from: Privateer

Quote from: M3ta7h3ad

Quote from: Privateer

Quote from: zpyderI hate to be such a downer, but the thing that gets me about that site is, the fact that publications like New Scientist, which though glossy, tend to contain the groundbreaking news stories of the science world. They frequently publish articles on stem cell research.

However the latest issues all detail some form of stem cell research still at the lab and test rat/mouse stage. The closest I think I can remember to human trials was a statement that a technique mentioned would be ready in a couple of years for human trials. That site is, to me, the equivalent of a website being made 5 years ago advertising todays modern tech computers. Its possible, but not available quite yet. If it was it would have been on the BBC and all other major news channels much like Dolly the sheep. The labs leading the forefront of this kind of research are striving to be the first to achieve their goals, the second they can itll hit international headlines, not a website that is linked to on a forum...

It could of course be that these different patient reports are the result of trials that arent of the standard required for true scientific recognition. A lack of control groups and proper protocols etc. But then if this is the case, you have to ask yourself how many more people took part in the trials with no signs of treatment effect on them, or even negative effects, which the site may exclude from publishing.

if you were in my shoes, you might see things differently, some people have severe reactions, but I m at the stage where nothing matters

You clearly hold your kids in high regard then.

Id rather live 20 years disabled with my children, than die because of impatience and never have the chance to see my children grow up.

Theres no evidence of bad stem cell, in fact my kids are very exited,
Suzanne Shaw won dancing on ice, to win she risked death and brain injury and has a 4 year old, pick on her.

Except risk with dancing on ice, is likely to be less than that of an experimental medical procedure in another country.

It sounds somewhat dubious, expensive, will get you further into debt that lets face it... you wont be able to get out of.

Best case, youll regain some mobility for a limited period of time.
Worst case you die in a foreign country with your kids on the otherside of the world waiting for an iphone.

Best of luck with it, but it all seems somewhat of a wing and a prayer from my viewpoint.

P.S. you may wish to have sanitised that newspaper clipping. - its incredible what a 192 search will bring up.

Quote from: M3ta7h3adIt sounds somewhat dubious, expensive, will get you further into debt that lets face it... you wont be able to get out of.

Best case, youll regain some mobility for a limited period of time.
Worst case you die in a foreign country with your kids on the otherside of the world waiting for an iphone.

P.S. you may wish to have sanitised that newspaper clipping. - its incredible what a 192 search will bring up.

Bloody hell Rich your definitely not the good news fairy are you!??   -)

Quote from: Rivkid

Quote from: M3ta7h3adIt sounds somewhat dubious, expensive, will get you further into debt that lets face it... you wont be able to get out of.

Best case, youll regain some mobility for a limited period of time.
Worst case you die in a foreign country with your kids on the otherside of the world waiting for an iphone.

P.S. you may wish to have sanitised that newspaper clipping. - its incredible what a 192 search will bring up.

Bloody hell Rich your definitely not the good news fairy are you!??   -) every comment from him is guarateed to be
negative.

M3ta7h3ad I did not clip the paper it was to big. fool.

Edited:

Dont post other peoples personal information on the forum, I dont care how big a point youre trying to prove - you know better than this.

Instead of being a tit about it you could have shopped the pic for him or PMd him to let him know.

Nige

Quote from: Privateerevery comment from him is guarateed to be
negative.


M3ta7h3ad I did not clip the paper it was to big. fool.

Im sure hes just playing devils advocate. Hes not said anything unreasonable.

....those Welsh theyre all bloody doom and gloom eh?   -)  *g/f smacks me upside the head*

Quote from: M3ta7h3adEdited:

Dont post other peoples personal information on the forum, I dont care how big a point youre trying to prove - you know better than this.

Instead of being a tit about it you could have shopped the pic for him or PMd him to let him know.

Nige

If he chooses to dismiss my advice with a stupid comment. Its his choice.

Quote from: M3ta7h3adEdited:

Dont post other peoples personal information on the forum, I dont care how big a point youre trying to prove - you know better than this.

Instead of being a tit about it you could have shopped the pic for him or PMd him to let him know.

Nige

what you on about.

Quote from: Privateer

Quote from: M3ta7h3adEdited:

Dont post other peoples personal information on the forum, I dont care how big a point youre trying to prove - you know better than this.

Instead of being a tit about it you could have shopped the pic for him or PMd him to let him know.

Nige

what you on about.

I posted your name, full postal address and telephone number as you seemed to not care about the fact that the newspaper has enough detail in it to find out quite a lot of information.

I suggest you either take down the clipping, or just edit it to hide the details mate. Its to protect not only yourself, but youve got kids... that im pretty sure given the details I found, google maps and some time, I could quite happily find out where they go to school and what not.

blimey my new carer is bloody horny (34 size 10 at a guess), if my injections work, Ill be injecting her.

Quote from: Privateerblimey my new carer is bloody horny (34 size 10 at a guess), if my injections work, Ill be injecting her.

wtf? random.

Quote from: M3ta7h3ad

Quote from: Privateerblimey my new carer is bloody horny (34 size 10 at a guess), if my injections work, Ill be injecting her.

wtf? random.

whats random  about that, if my Stem Cell injections work Ill be able to inject my carer.

gay people like you inject through the rear.

you obviously have no idea about the affects of Ataxia.

Quote from: M3ta7h3adId rather live 20 years disabled with my children, than die because of impatience and never have the chance to see my children grow up.

if I cant wipe my own arse Id rather be dead

Quote from: Eggtastico

Quote from: M3ta7h3adId rather live 20 years disabled with my children, than die because of impatience and never have the chance to see my children grow up.

if I cant wipe my own arse Id rather be dead

thats my cut off point aswel, Ill be f**king lucky to push 2 years without Stem Cell help.

Edited:

First you bait him, now youre being bang out of order. Stop acting like the bullies you supposedly despise and please leave the thread alone. Dont be forcing my hand Rich.

The pair of you need to learn to get along or ignore each other.

Nige

Quote from: M3ta7h3adEdited:

First you bait him, now youre being bang out of order. Stop acting like the bullies you supposedly despise and please leave the thread alone. Dont be forcing my hand Rich.

The pair of you need to learn to get along or ignore each other.

Nige

Ill choose the ignore route, its easy on my part, I never post in his threads, all he has to do is stay out of mine.


thanks Nige for being sensible.

Ive already posted in the Mods Lounge about M3ta7h3ads behavior recently, guess he might actually be working to get what he deserves. Red-ban wasnt that long ago and hes still off.

If you cant post responsibly M3ta7h3ad dont bother posting at all, posting stuff without thinking is going to get you banned sooner rather than later.

Quote from: SeriousIve already posted in the Mods Lounge about M3ta7h3ads behavior recently, guess he might actually be working to get what he deserves. Red-ban wasnt that long ago and hes still off.

If you cant post responsibly M3ta7h3ad dont bother posting at all, posting stuff without thinking is going to get you banned sooner rather than later.

http://blueballfixed.ytmnd.com/

good for her.

Quote10,000-mile Trip Brings Fresh Hope for Audrey     
Thursday, 14 February 2008

Source: South Manchester Reporter

By Marie Burchill

A FORMER Lord Mayor who travelled to China for pioneering treatment on a fatal brain disease said: "I feel on top of the world".

Councillor Audrey Jones went on a 10,000-mile round trip to the Far East to undergo the revolutionary process that is not available anywhere else after doctor's told her it was her last hope of survival.

QuoteAudrey said she left Britain having to rely on a wheelchair, but returned feeling well enough to be able to walk unaided.

http://www.stemcellschina.com/content/view/820/502/lang,en/

This again.

Brian the Scottish bloke I speak to had 4 injections, hes was very happy, he had enough raised funds for a second
trip, this time hes having 6 injections, hes over there now, heres his update.

QuoteJust an update on my treatment here. Had 4 spinal injections of stem cells and feeling lots better, getting an IV later today. My aches and pains seemed to have disappeared and the fine motor skills have improved, although I notice my balance is slightly better it is not great? But hey, I think I am too fussy! Speech too is good again, but I didnt need a lot more improvements this time as compared to last time.

lol he raised enough for 2 trips, as yet Ive not got a penny, my kids cant help you need to be 18, Im moving to Scotland.

I suppose with him raising all that money it probs took him quite a long time i imagine? Did anything ever happen with that news reporter lady who came to your house i remember reading Privateer?

Liam

Quote from: LiamI suppose with him raising all that money it probs took him quite a long time i imagine? Did anything ever happen with that news reporter lady who came to your house i remember reading Privateer?

Liam

nothing Liam, this from Brian, its funny,

QuoteYeah I always wondered why the Scots were branded as tight? think its the other way around?
 
Hope you manage to raise the funds to help you.
 
Bye for now,


B MacNeill

if I was black Id have money thrown at me.

Quote from: Privateerif I was black Id have money thrown at me.

its true. I only have to walk down Shrewsbury town with some of my black friends and we get bombarded with cash..... :wtf:

Quote from: Rivkid on March 13, 2008, 09:26:21 AMBest of luck privateer - I really hope it works out for you.

When you going?

Where is she going

got excited there thought privateer was back :-o