Tekforums

Is today when it gets announced about the full spec, release date etc? Any news?

i read it was today.. no idea if its happening tho

http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/07/steve-jobs-live-from-wwdc-2010/?sort=newest&refresh=60

Retina Display??

You mean a higher resolution?

Retina or RETiNA? :P iEye

Fair play, looks pretty good.

Quote from: sexytwFair play, looks pretty good.

yup
& so does them prices if its sim free

All very impressive, except the 5MP camera :(

are those prices just made up I have never seen any Iphones for $99?

Il be getting one.
Camera MP:
now I do not really care as long as it takes a decent picture. Flash was what I really wanted.
Ill take a picture or two at a party or out and about as a quick thing.
Snap a photo or video and it will go up on facebook etc.
If Im going to take real decent photos I will take my proper camera or
my girlfriend will have hers in her bag or when you have your rucksack etc.

Camera phone : quick stuff, parties.
Real phone: when I know I will intend to take pictures.

a camera is the last feature i look for on a phone...
I take very few photos... dont see the point in capturing that moment

 :stupid: Whats the point of going somewhere nice and spending the whole time looking at a phone screen? Cameras should be banned from museums and public places of interest in general.

Ill get me one of these if the glass is properly pocket-proof. The 3GS is nice but having to keep it in a chunky case kinda defeats the idea of minimal design.

Quote from: DEViANCEare those prices just made up I have never seen any Iphones for $99?

Almost makes me wish Id waited after all. But then I remember, even if the $299 price for the 32gb one is real, itll still end up being £500 or something stupid over here anyway :(

You dont need huge MP if it has a good lens/flash. As long as it has a camera as good as my current phone (SE C905) Id get one.

But its not a good lens.

Its too small, and too close to the CCD.

So 24th June in the UK?!

Prices seem good......although I think they will be a lot more. Maybe them prices, but an expensive contract?

Quote from: soopahflyBut its not a good lens.

Its too small, and too close to the CCD.

That does not seem true going on the specs.
http://gizmodo.com/5557622/this-is-how-the-new-iphone-4s-photos-look
Under optimal conditions of course

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/4/2010/06/photo_01.jpg

QuoteAperture: 2.97
Color space: Uncalibrated
Date and time: 2010/05/07 15:14
Exposure: Auto exposure
Exposure time: 1/887
Flash: Flash did not fire, auto mode
FNumber: 2.8
Focal length: 3.85
ISO speed rating: 80
Metering mode: Spot
Sharpness: Hard
White balance: Auto

That is decent enough for me

Quote from: neXusIl be getting one.
Camera MP:
now I do not really care as long as it takes a decent picture. Flash was what I really wanted.
Ill take a picture or two at a party or out and about as a quick thing.
Snap a photo or video and it will go up on facebook etc.
If Im going to take real decent photos I will take my proper camera or
my girlfriend will have hers in her bag or when you have your rucksack etc.

Camera phone : quick stuff, parties.
Real phone: when I know I will intend to take pictures.

Hes right. A camera phone is when your mate falls over outside and you want to snap it. A proper camera is when you visit the Colosseum.

 :drama: I never thought Id see Sam saying Nexus is right!!

How times change!

I think Ive had a camera on my phones for the last 6 years, and have probably taken less than 1 photo a year which I have kept for whatever reason, be it a memorable event or an actually decent shot.

The problem with them on smartphones, or at least the android, is that to me at least the steps between seeing the shot and getting the camera activated and taking the shot are too long and fiddly, by then the moment is gone, so even though I havent left the house without a camera in over half a decade, Ive not made use of it! If I had a crash and needed to take photos for evidence/insurance I doubt Id even remember I had the camera on the phone, unless someone else starts using theirs!

It looks nice, but its still just a nice walled garden.

Quote from: soopahflyIt looks nice, but its still just a nice walled garden.

explain or die.

You cant do anything with the IOS Software.  Its locked down so much, thats why people jail break them.

Its do as we tell you, not do as you please.

And before you start, Rooting is different.  Its like the administrator account, or Root in linux ;)

So your going to make an app.
What can you not do that you would want to and why do you want to do it?

Id not want an iPhone :D

Why do people pay 2010 prices for a 2008 phone?

Video Calling, Big Whoop.  Most 3G Phones since the dawn of time have had the ability to do that.
Multitasking?  Every WM/CE/Symbian phone can do it.
Retina Display?  Just get a phone with a high res screen, similar resolutions have been around for a few years.

For example :

HTC Desire,
Doesnt do video calling (not many android phones do, but who actually video calls anyway?)
Multitasks, with intelligent task manager
480 X 800 WVGA (Not quite as high as the iP4
3G, Wifi, Longer talk/standby times
Dont have to remortgage.


Looks nice though, although I hope they continue with the Android iPhone project :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoqh27E6OuU#

Amusing...I wonder how Ballmer would have reacted?  Baseball Bats? Repeating the word Developers?

Quote from: zpyder:drama: I never thought Id see Sam saying Nexus is right!!

How times change!

Its a glitch in the nexus, one sec and Ill get the brain adjusting spanner... ^_^

TBH the equipment doesnt matter providing it does what you want it to. For a few quick snapshots a camera phone is totally adequate.

Sooph, I am far far from a apple fan boy but your a prime example of a hater, lol.

Moans about things but can not quite put down a valid argument agaisnt.
No phone has the screen res this iphone has and the tech for this and other current gen phones like the HTC offerings have only been available recently through manufacturers. To say they been around for years is not true. That is for any phone not just this one.

As for the demo glitch...
Android flash demo went badly wrong too, it happens to everyone. Was not a phone glitch at the apple one but a wifi issue, One Apple and Others have had at the location. Apple and others have actually complained a number of times about it before and its not been sorted properly Still. MS had similar issues at an xbox event there not to long ago apperently.

Specs - pff. Head to head you will always find a phone that beats another phone at something, not everything but it is all tit for tat and I always find people who do that or try to do that on points is silly if you ask me, its just Top Trumps which is a childs game and silly kids argue over who has the better card.

Looking at the whole package this is a very nice phone and good pricing compared to other new smartphones. A lot of people have questioned why android based phones cost as they do considering the OS and where it comes from, they should not be that high. Whole idea was to drive prices down with that OS, not happened.

I think android OS is a great OS but head to head multitasking iphone os4 has been outdoing it from what I have read. Next version in the works from google is looking to better this aspect of the phone.
Windows mobile 7 will not have multitasking to start with.

You can go on and on....

Oh, you avoided my question. I asked that today to one of the guys at work who said the same thing as you. Could not actually come out with a valid example, could not think of anything.
It is a locked down OS but Apple has reasons but it does not prevent you making most apps you would use on the system. Jailbreaking reasons get less and less all the time on iphone. Less people actually do figures show.

Apple are not perfect by a long run but this is a good phone and I will get one it looks dam good and its not as wide and its thinner then the 3GS and that is a big selling point for me, I hate thick phones.

At the end of the day you get the phone that appeals to you, it is like a car. You like what you like and may not be what another person likes.
SO WHAT?
No point doing the old top trumps bitching in my opinion.

Quote from: neXusSooph, I am far far from a apple fan boy but your a prime example of a hater, lol.

Moans about things but can not quite put down a valid argument agaisnt.
No phone has the screen res this iphone has and the tech for this and other current gen phones like the HTC offerings have only been available recently through manufacturers. To say they been around for years is not true. That is for any phone not just this one.

As for the demo glitch...
Android flash demo went badly wrong too, it happens to everyone. Was not a phone glitch at the apple one but a wifi issue, One Apple and Others have had at the location. Apple and others have actually complained a number of times about it before and its not been sorted properly Still. MS had similar issues at an xbox event there not to long ago apperently.

Specs - pff. Head to head you will always find a phone that beats another phone at something, not everything but it is all tit for tat and I always find people who do that or try to do that on points is silly if you ask me, its just Top Trumps which is a childs game and silly kids argue over who has the better card.

Looking at the whole package this is a very nice phone and good pricing compared to other new smartphones. A lot of people have questioned why android based phones cost as they do considering the OS and where it comes from, they should not be that high. Whole idea was to drive prices down with that OS, not happened.

I think android OS is a great OS but head to head multitasking iphone os4 has been outdoing it from what I have read. Next version in the works from google is looking to better this aspect of the phone.
Windows mobile 7 will not have multitasking to start with.

You can go on and on....

Oh, you avoided my question. I asked that today to one of the guys at work who said the same thing as you. Could not actually come out with a valid example, could not think of anything.
It is a locked down OS but Apple has reasons but it does not prevent you making most apps you would use on the system. Jailbreaking reasons get less and less all the time on iphone. Less people actually do figures show.

Apple are not perfect by a long run but this is a good phone and I will get one it looks dam good and its not as wide and its thinner then the 3GS and that is a big selling point for me, I hate thick phones.

At the end of the day you get the phone that appeals to you, it is like a car. You like what you like and may not be what another person likes.
SO WHAT?
No point doing the old top trumps bitching in my opinion.

Whoa Whoa Whoa.
I am a one man hate squad against Apple.  Their products are overpriced toys.  Why spend so much over the odds for a Logo?
If you want to waste your money, go for it.  The more sensible of us will go for the Androids, the WebOSs, the Symbians and the Blackberry.
Forced into using Apples hateful proprietary software, The Flash argument thats going on is prime example of "Do as we say"

The glitch was unfortunate, thats all.  I wasnt digging on it.

Its not a good price at all, the $99 they show on the screen is on the very expensive and very low value for money contracts they bundle this hateful device with.


Ive only used an iPhone in passing, and wasnt impressed at all.  Certainly not enough to spend £200 more than a similarly featured phone.
Now, go pass your gall stone.





Its got some nice new features, but ground breaking it is not.

I must be the only person here who uses his phone tons as a camera then :whoops:

Im still on an N82 so I cant talk much, all modern phones seem lacking in the two things I care about, battery life, and camera! Im waiting for the N8 as it should have a monster camera and wont come locked down as per soopahs points above.

Apple arent generally about having great ideas and putting them forward ahead of other people.

What they are fantastic at is taking ideas from multiple sources putting them in one package and polishing it into a smooth fluid experience.

Everything works, everything has the same feel, everything feels like it was made by a team of people looking for excellence.

Other things feel cobbled together to try and be first or catch up.

It isnt about having the most access to every possible feature or bring limited on what you can do. It is about making sure that what you can do is the best it can be at the time.

And it looks like apple may again succeed with that.

I have used many other products and while they may be more open they never seem as intuitive as apples alternative as "inferior" as it may be.

No.

Apple are good at marketing.  And preying on the weak and the feeble minded.

Quote from: matt5cottI must be the only person here who uses his phone tons as a camera then :whoops:

Im still on an N82 so I cant talk much, all modern phones seem lacking in the two things I care about, battery life, and camera! Im waiting for the N8 as it should have a monster camera and wont come locked down as per soopahs points above.

What Apple are good at and marketing well is their lifestyle.

If you fit in with it, every dream comes true with every Apple product released.

If like me and Matt Scott you want a phone with good battery life to talk to people with and that also has a quality to camera to quickly grab to snap photos of while youre living your life - everywhere from the supermarket to under the bonnet of your car or out on the lash - then you soon realise you dont fit the Applegeist.

Those are my two main requirements for a phone.

I'm in that club as well, I have a SE W995 which I'm more than happy with I use my phone mostly for calls, I also use it as a replacement for my old Ipod and it takes a decent pic (for a phone) since I replaced the software with that from a SE 805.

Some people really do buy into the Apple "lifestyle" and seem to think that they are in some "special" club because they own one and paying twice as much as I did for my phone! lol

Iv run windows phones for years, finally got an iPhone and.. meh aside from the fact its an ipod theres no advantage.. and to me the iPhone 4 is just a 3Gs that actually does what it should have done to begin with.

Quote from: Binary ShadowIv run windows phones for years, finally got an iPhone and.. meh aside from the fact its an ipod theres no advantage.. and to me the iPhone 4 is just a 3Gs that actually does what it should have done to begin with.

get to the app store then

Ive decided against getting one. Most of the important aspects of the iphone 3GS are downright sh*t; battery life, lying down in bed with it flipping around, phone reception, slow browsing, sh*tty email, size, needs a big chunky case... Looks like apple have improved upon one, maybe two of those faults/annoyances with the 4.

Problem with the iphone is it does too much. I dont want to watch (short) movies, listen to mp3s, twit or facebook anything. I dont want to store 16gb worth of anything on it, I dont want to watch youtube slideshows, I dont want to plug it in my PC to charge for the 10th time today and be faced with 50 iStore update prompts.

Im looking at the icons on mine now, you could cut the features down to:

-Phone
-Texts
-Mail
-Camera
-Maps
-Browser
-Calendar/Clock
-Notes


and have a damned good phone that would be smaller and lighter and better. All the rest is bells and whistles novelty with none of the killer-appyness of those I listed above.

sh*tty £40 handsets on payg are the future, people!

Which is pretty much the summary of what my phone has and it does 90% of that very well.

The only thing that annoys me is they get on as if they invented apps, they seem to forget the massive amount of them out for windows ce, and more importantly - epoc/epoc32, the grand daddy.

I and my mates were writing beerware (Does anyone remember that!) for the psion series of devices before most iphone users were born.

Now there were devices with good battery life. And they were awesome.

Quote from: SweensterWhat they are fantastic at is taking ideas from multiple sources putting them in one package and polishing it into a smooth fluid experience.

Everything works, everything has the same feel, everything feels like it was made by a team of people looking for excellence.

Other things feel cobbled together to try and be first or catch up.

Id go with this tbh...

I was considering HTC - Im probably going to go for a new iphone

Since purchasing my current iphone about 1 1/2 years ago Ive since got a macbook and am tempted to buy an imac when they go through the next release cycle (I am turning into a "fanboy" it seems) - 27 inch screen, no wires, no mess and it looks f**king sexual.

I used to slag off macs when I was actually bothered about cost and my PC was something Id assembled myself. Now Im no longer a student Im not that fussed about spending a few hundred extra as its no longer a large chunk of my disposable income. I though the iphone was fairly slick, decided to buy a macbook (thinking I could always whack ubuntu or windows on it if I didnt like it) and now Im more than happy with it and very much a convert to OS X.

I also like to buy my jeans from Diesel - Im sure that people who simply look at specs could perhaps tell me that Tesco own brand use the same type of cotton but then theyd be missing the point...

Im going to get a new iphone :)

Probably in August though, as my contract ends then (thought it was earlier). Hopefully there wont be a short supply of them?!

Quote from: MarkThe only thing that annoys me is they get on as if they invented apps, they seem to forget the massive amount of them out for windows ce, and more importantly - epoc/epoc32, the grand daddy.

Theyll have invented tablet PCs soon too ;)

Quote from: MarkThe only thing that annoys me is they get on as if they invented apps, they seem to forget the massive amount of them out for windows ce, and more importantly - epoc/epoc32, the grand daddy.

I and my mates were writing beerware (Does anyone remember that!) for the psion series of devices before most iphone users were born.

Now there were devices with good battery life. And they were awesome.

They do which is a bit annoying, same with their patents but they do it in a way that works well. Windows apps were not as easy to get, use and have the popularity they should and did not take off or be used as much.
Apple created a way that works very well and now everyone else is copying their model.

Not they didnt invent App Stores, or the concept of one.  But I think its fair to say its the first commercially successful one that actually worked.

I think they dealt with the Wifi issues pretty well, 571 Wifi spots including those Mifi is pretty impressive.

Apple staff are extremely passionate about their products, perhaps so passionate they have convinced themselves with their own marketing.  Its not like they are reinventing the wheel, but they certainly do improve upon it.  They are not the first at a lot of ideas, IE multitasking, but they seems to allways get it right when they do implement ideas.  I still find the idea they reinvented the phone amusing.

Overall I feel this is good step forward for the iphone, its needed a redesign for a while with such a move forward with the OS, using the actual structure for the aerial is a great idea.  Im glad to see they have focussed on durability while reducing the thickness once again.  Better processor, bigger battery, the screen Ill wait till I see in person.

I absolutely agree with Nexus on the camera, Phone cameras are great for snaps on the move, they really should be half decent these days and have some sort of flash, my donkeys years old K750i was and is better than the current 3GS.  Im glad they have improved the optics and not just put more MP in the same size sensor.  Ive got my Lumix for real photos.

Honestly the change I am looking forward to the most in OS 4.0 is multiple exchange accounts.

The apps is an amazing idea.
Practically opens the to tons of people wanting to be a developer... look at games like doodle jump. Thats made
the guy over $1millon.
Yea, they are few & far between, but I bet there are quite a few making a decent living & prob loads more who
are having a nice supplement to their normal income.

Quote from: MarkThe only thing that annoys me is they get on as if they invented apps, they seem to forget the massive amount of them out for windows ce, and more importantly - epoc/epoc32, the grand daddy.

I and my mates were writing beerware (Does anyone remember that!) for the psion series of devices before most iphone users were born.

If they were that good then why havent they been as successful? Apple came into this late in the game and has a app market that completely eclipses anyone else.

iBecause ithere iare imore iApple iSheep(tm) than Psion Sheep.

Or because at the end of the day, they got it right when it came down to making the apps easy to get at. On my desire its a case of going to marketplace, choosing something, pressing "install", confirm, and then confirm the access rights. Job done. Compared to my old phones, where if I wanted to add something I had to:

Install the phone software on the PC, Download the installer, connect phone to pc, run installer, click ok half a dozen times and choose several options.

And various alternatives to the above including going through the hassle of sorting out wifi/bluetooth connectivity etc.

Quote from: DaveIf they were that good then why havent they been as successful? Apple came into this late in the game and has a app market that completely eclipses anyone else.

because anyone can buy & download apps + because of the SDK, the apps have the same feel to them, etc.
it wasnt easy for non technical people to install on apps on all the other platforms before hand.

Quote from: soopahflyiBecause ithere iare imore iApple iSheep(tm) than Psion Sheep.

yes and why do you think that is?

why, if it was so good, has Psion completely failed to gain any form of following or market share?

It think egg and zpyder are on the right track tbh...

Because when Psion were about, it was purely business folk and techies that used them.
Now every asshat has one of these phones, they buy the ones their told.

Surely you could say that people that follow the herd with the sheep mentality are being idiots. Apple makes idiot-proof products = The reason to their success.

Im not calling all iphone owners idiots btw, many are capable of and do make their own decisions based on what is most suitable for their needs.

i dunno how anyone who hasnt owned one or used for a length of time can criticise them.
soopah, your biggest fanboy for everything you own & knock whatever the competition is.

I had always avoided the iphone, now I got one.
best phone ive owned? you bet.
So what if the camera isnt great, the battery life is easily on par with my n96.
Im gutted my iphone is only 5 months old, which means I cant upgrade.

Who knows what phones will be out for my next upgrade. I wont rule out an
android because ive never owned one though.

For now the iphone does near enough everything I want. Its user friendly,
and theres only a few niggling things I dont like.. some have been fixed by jailbreaking.

Quote from: Pete-Phone
-Texts
-Mail
-Camera
-Maps
-Browser
-Calendar/Clock

Blackberry, Job Done ;)


Just been doing my BIS and BES training with RIM over the last couple of days, and Im rather impressed with what they have, and whats coming.  Bugger still wouldnt let me have a 9800 though :(

Some of the success is down to the fact it has an apple badge on it! - Agreed

But the App store was really the first place to get phone apps that was easy to use and the apps largely worked, and I think this was one of its main keys to success!

But now Android has similar and similar functionality as a device, and from the little I have used it and from people I know who own them, they are good phones, some have issues (Battery life - same as iPhone on some models).

I have owned and used several phones as part of my job, my last phone was a WinMo HTC, and although it was quite sturdy had some good features, it also was fiddly to set some stuff up, was missing some features, software was a PITA to install, email sync was also a bit of a pain and HTC cameras are largely sh*t compared to the iPhone (Dont know how the newer HTCs are) but in low light the HTC wouldnt work and the iPhone did. Not saying it is a perfect camera, and my old K800 probably had a better one than either, mostly because of flash, but the new one may make things better! and Megapixels mean nothing!

Im now on an iPhone (I dont own any other apple products) and really like it find it easy to use and just works! My only complaints are the battery and iTunes is a bit sh*t!

I can configure everything I want to, and synced everything with our exchange server in a matter of minutes, and had all my contacts, mail and calendar all up and running.

At the end of the day, people who get iPhones are not generically sheep, just because they buy something that loads of other people have bought, maybe it is because it does just work, its easy to use and its versatile! But I wouldnt be against getting an Android phone in the future as they are in reality similar devices and both pretty much can do the same thing.

But I would not consider going back to any other OSs at the moment, they just dont give the flexibility that Im now used to, Win Mob 7 might open this up to a 3rd contender, but Im sure they will end up making a hash of it TBH, but who knows!

Edit: Completely forgot about Blackberry! - I actually like these too and think they make great work phones and handy with UMA if you live in a house with no reception!

Quote from: soopahflyBecause when Psion were about, it was purely business folk and techies that used them.
Now every asshat has one of these phones, they buy the ones their told.

Its up to them how they design them, who they chose to market them to, its not like people wouldnt have bought them a few years back if they were designed/implemented appropriately... the fact is they failed at their attempt.

Xerox came up with the first implementation of a windows based GUI - apple were the ones who spotted the potential in it and developed the idea, microsoft later copied much of apples implementation... you dont see people walking around with laptops running Xerox operating systems these days...

ditto to the mouse - Xerox were the first - it only gained popular appeal when apple spotted its potential

they didnt get to be successful because there were a bunch of so called fanboys waiting around, apple was in major trouble and no-where near as popular in the 90s - products like the ipod and iphone have since been very successfully launched - if there are fanboys around now its because apple has won them over with their products

the iphone, the app store are successful because theyre well implemented and well designed

there is a good reason why Apple is now worth as much as Microsoft - they design and build **** that is easy to use and works and they are innovative with it

I never took much interest in apple until I got an iphone, it was after that that I thought Id try a macbook - Im pretty happy with that purchase too

I think for a lot of people, they may not be sheep, they may be like my sister. She weighed up Android versus iPhone. In the end she went iPhone simply because of the larger number of apps. A lot of people out there might be swayed one way or another not by the phone, but simply on the grounds of the amount of accessories (soft and hardware) out there for it. I cant fault android, but then Ive not had an iPhone to compare it to. Who knows, though Ive not found myself wanting more apps, maybe if I had an iPhone Id find theres 2x as much out there for it that I want already!

Quote from: XEntitySome of the success is down to the fact it has an apple badge on it! - Agreed

This is the whole point Im getting at.
A more open OS means that people can fix bugs, tweak and make the phone do what you want it to do.

Eggs argument against me is flawed, Im not a fanboy for what I own.  Ive got a PS3 and think its useless for gaming.  The controllers are good for asians and children.  Surely I should be doing a "Batch" and sing how good it is from the rooftops.
Ive owned a hackintosh, but would prefer to go down the Linux route and choose my own hardware.

Ive made my own choices, and Ill champion them.

They arent without their flaws, but usually they are open enough to fix.

im actually considering a career change & looking into app development.

the potential is massive.

theres still quite a few bells & whistle programs I would like & quite a few old games
would work well as well.

If I could code, I would too.

But it seems quite easy to pirate though.

Quote from: XEntityEdit: Completely forgot about Blackberry! - I actually like these too and think they make great work phones and handy with UMA if you live in a house with no reception!

2nd best selling Smartphones after Nokia (Who do a MASSIVE range of the things), iPhone is in third place, but they are ALL losing ground to Android.  WinMo isnt selling well at the moment because people appear to be waiting for WinMo7.  

Quote from: Beaker

Quote from: XEntityEdit: Completely forgot about Blackberry! - I actually like these too and think they make great work phones and handy with UMA if you live in a house with no reception!

2nd best selling Smartphones after Nokia (Who do a MASSIVE range of the things), iPhone is in third place, but they are ALL losing ground to Android.  WinMo isnt selling well at the moment because people appear to be waiting for WinMo7.  

Ye sorry not sure how it slipped my mind! I do some work with RIM as well! :P

And yes I expect there will be some people waiting for W7M, but WinMob has been pretty awful for years!

Winmo 7 isnt going to be any better.  :(

Quote from: soopahflyWinmo 7 isnt going to be any better.  :(

Depends TBH if Apple continue to have such Piss-Poor stock levels.  Its why some resellers and Network providers are pushing the Desire so hard.  CPW and O2 are pushing the Streak hard.  

Android market place is groqingbur its no where near that of the apple app store yet.
Android is on many phones these days but it is far from in a huge spike of growth.

Android is really good but has many flaws. The updates and slow adoption of updates on phones is terrible. There are new phones coming out now with 2  versions old OS on them.

Still think palm screwed themselves, they made a great IS, probably my fav and they messed up the adoption and marketing.
The guy that made the brilliant notifications interface for webos has just moved to apple.

As I said at the end of the day it is when your ready for a new phone what features you want and which looks nice for you at that time. As long as there are a good amount of phones on the cards thats what is important. Always newer and better coming out so you have to forget that and get what appeals to you.

Quote from: neXusAndroid is really good but has many flaws. The updates and slow adoption of updates on phones is terrible. There are new phones coming out now with 2  versions old OS on them.

This is sort of true, but only a major issue if your phone is sh*t to begin with. IMO, with the lastest androids, this is clearly not the case.

Plus they have awesome android smilies :D :wub:

Quote from: Dave

Quote from: MarkThe only thing that annoys me is they get on as if they invented apps, they seem to forget the massive amount of them out for windows ce, and more importantly - epoc/epoc32, the grand daddy.

I and my mates were writing beerware (Does anyone remember that!) for the psion series of devices before most iphone users were born.

If they were that good then why havent they been as successful? Apple came into this late in the game and has a app market that completely eclipses anyone else.

The psion devices were incredibly successful! They were seen as a business tool, and marketed as such.

The iphone may have a lot of applications, but a large percentage of them are fart noise generators. And it is aimed at a totally different market.

Quote from: neXusAndroid market place is groqingbur its no where near that of the apple app store yet.
Android is on many phones these days but it is far from in a huge spike of growth.

Android is really good but has many flaws. The updates and slow adoption of updates on phones is terrible. There are new phones coming out now with 2  versions old OS on them.

Still think palm screwed themselves, they made a great IS, probably my fav and they messed up the adoption and marketing.
The guy that made the brilliant notifications interface for webos has just moved to apple.

As I said at the end of the day it is when your ready for a new phone what features you want and which looks nice for you at that time. As long as there are a good amount of phones on the cards thats what is important. Always newer and better coming out so you have to forget that and get what appeals to you.

I think the problem with the android could well be in its openness.
Apple basically got a leash on its apps on the app stores. Having something wide open as android could cause itself problems in the future.
I just feel its going to get messy. Suddenly you could have a phone & need to have a certain spec for programs to run or may not be fully
compatible with certain handsets. Then theres the potential of HTC, Ericsson, Motorola, etc. wanting control on having their own separate app stores.

Hopefully it wont happen - maybe someone can spot a potential in the market & offer custom phones where you pick what you want hardware wise
ie, memory/storage, MP on the camera, etc. like as we have done with computers in the last 20+ years - I know something similar has been offered
on them Asian sites in the past.

Should be solveable with a sensible mobile equivalent of java or similar - so eventually you only need to customize the platform for each phone and the apps are broadly platform-independent.

Quote from: BigSoyShould be solveable with a sensible mobile equivalent of java or similar - so eventually you only need to customize the platform for each phone and the apps are broadly platform-independent.

HTML 5 and canvas

Quote from: Eggtastico

Quote from: neXusAndroid market place is groqingbur its no where near that of the apple app store yet.
Android is on many phones these days but it is far from in a huge spike of growth.

Android is really good but has many flaws. The updates and slow adoption of updates on phones is terrible. There are new phones coming out now with 2  versions old OS on them.

Still think palm screwed themselves, they made a great IS, probably my fav and they messed up the adoption and marketing.
The guy that made the brilliant notifications interface for webos has just moved to apple.

As I said at the end of the day it is when your ready for a new phone what features you want and which looks nice for you at that time. As long as there are a good amount of phones on the cards thats what is important. Always newer and better coming out so you have to forget that and get what appeals to you.

I think the problem with the android could well be in its openness.
Apple basically got a leash on its apps on the app stores. Having something wide open as android could cause itself problems in the future.
I just feel its going to get messy. Suddenly you could have a phone & need to have a certain spec for programs to run or may not be fully
compatible with certain handsets. Then theres the potential of HTC, Ericsson, Motorola, etc. wanting control on having their own separate app stores.

Hopefully it wont happen - maybe someone can spot a potential in the market & offer custom phones where you pick what you want hardware wise
ie, memory/storage, MP on the camera, etc. like as we have done with computers in the last 20+ years - I know something similar has been offered
on them Asian sites in the past.

Agreed.  Fragmentation is a big problem.  The HTC Hero that I have was once the Flagship HTC phone, but it was quickly dropped.  It was stuck with 1.5 for ages, Its only just been upgraded to 2.1.  
Only the Google Experience devices are safe, the G1, the Nexus One etc.
Youll end up with a similar problem with Apple though, New IOS is only for 3g, 3gs and 4, but its a hardware limitation as opposed to a desire to push more handsets.
I saw a SE phone thats due to come out soon, with 1.5 on it, Google should remove the source for 1.5 now that there is 1.6, 2.1 and 2.2.  Force Devs to use the latest.  1.5 is buggy as hell, and manufacturers dont help when they bastardise the OS.

Quote from: soopahflyhardware limitation

This is an excuse that Apple like to trot out whenever they want you to buy something new.  The 3G works JUST as well as the GS from what Ive seen on OS4, that includes the multi-taking.  Its Apple "forcing" an upgrade, and their users swallowing it wholesale.  

Quote from: XEntityEdit: Completely forgot about Blackberry! - I actually like these too and think they make great work phones and handy with UMA if you live in a house with no reception!

One of the lads I work with wrote a very cool little Python script that allows you to unlock the Engineering screen.  That means you can manually tap the UMA info in to the handset.  Did mine last night, and its working perfectly as far as I can see.  Will be nice for roaming through WiFi if nothing else!

Quote from: MarkThe psion devices were incredibly successful! They were seen as a business tool, and marketed as such.

If psion were so successful where are they now? Having to pull out of a market isnt generally considered a success in business. RIM aim their devices at business users - they dont seem to do too badly from it...

They make rugged PDAs, EPOC was renamed Symbian, then sold that part to Nokia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psion

Theyre around, just doing something different.

Quote from: Dave

Quote from: MarkThe psion devices were incredibly successful! They were seen as a business tool, and marketed as such.

If psion were so successful where are they now? Having to pull out of a market isnt generally considered a success in business. RIM aim their devices at business users - they dont seem to do too badly from it...

When youre the only handset Governments certify, you can enjoy the comfort of the umbrella effect as many other companies also jump on the same bandwagon.  To be fair the RIM range of handsets is not very consumer friendly, and only now are they starting to bring out handsets that are actually nice looking as well as functional.  The latest Pearl is squarely aimed at women (As was the previous one really), but this time it looks like they bothered with some kind of design rather than making the casing something of an afterthought as it has been previously.  The 9800 for one is a stunning looking handset as well for the serious user, now I just need to see what OS6 looks like properly...

It makes me laugh whereby once we used to argue about the techy intricacies of X86 cpus, now its only mobile phones that raise the same amount of noise  :-)

The tech in a phone these days is amazing for the size these things are.
The next snapdragon chip out by the end of the year doing opengl at a high standard and 2ghz and will be duel core is all just mind blowing. They also make them use less power in the process which is probably even more amazing really.

You have to give Apple the credit for kicking phones into a whole new gear and showing people you can do things and they generate the market for these things. They may not do it the best but they get the ball rolling and push companies to do better.

I just love the antenna concept on the new iphone, You know the hardware guy has set there and thought about it and made it and then sold it to Jobs and co. It is not an apple design with the gaps but he/they just made something clever and sold the idea to the people above.

IF it works - great, you will also be a boost just holding the phone as well. Just I like things that are clever.

Giroscope I can not quite see all the uses for it yet but they put it in. Interesting how they still not whacked a radio in the iphone yet. I would really like that but I guess the ipod element and thus itunes/itunes store for a lot of people would be used less.

Quote from: soopahflyThey make rugged PDAs, EPOC was renamed Symbian, then sold that part to Nokia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psion

Theyre around, just doing something different.

I know theyre around - my point was they werent exactly that successful in the mobile phone market.

Quote from: DaveI know theyre around - my point was they werent exactly that successful in the mobile phone market.

I would say that their previous involvement with Symbian would make them a successful, though not as a brand name.  Its the most common OS you find on any handset.  

QuoteSamsung might have entertained us with some trash talk about the iPhone 4s IPS LCD yesterday, but this stuff is of a rather more somber variety. Raymond Soneira, president of monitor diagnostics firm DisplayMate, has said that Apples retina display marketing is inaccurate, because he believes a display that truly makes pixels indistinguishable to the human eye would require a density in the vicinity of 477dpi. The iPhone 4 has 326dpi, and by now you might be surmising that Steve Jobs flat out lied when he said that the iPhone 4s pixels are too small for the human retina to discern from 12 inches away.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/10/iphone-4s-retina-display-claim-put-under-the-math-microscope/

Regardless it is still an impressive display.

Fry: "But this is HDTV, it has better resolution than the real world"

 :nana:

Im annoyed as to why no networks or phone stores are starting preorders today when Apple has started it!! I been trying to preorder one on Carphone Warehouse to see the usual image of the iPhone 4 with Register Interest showing. What the f**k is going on???

Quote from: BatchIm annoyed as to why no networks or phone stores are starting preorders today when Apple has started it!! I been trying to preorder one on Carphone Warehouse to see the usual image of the iPhone 4 with Register Interest showing. What the f**k is going on???

Because they dont know the stock levels.  Were chasing one down at the moment for customer support, and they are basically laughing at us.  They know people will buy it regardless.

I was chasing Carphone Warehouse down as to why they not started preorders yet and said awaiting something and also said hopefully start taking preorders tomorrow. Not getting my hopes up about that as I felt they didnt know at all either.

Quote from: BatchI was chasing Carphone Warehouse down as to why they not started preorders yet and said awaiting something and also said hopefully start taking preorders tomorrow. Not getting my hopes up about that as I felt they didnt know at all either.

I asked one of the sales folks on my way out of the door this morning, and she just looked at me funny and told me shed get back to me when she knew!

apple want to know the level of interest and Stock. New product with some nifty Hardware that needs to be manufactured so they need to see the numbers and the data. They got some US sites to pull their pre-order plans for example.

I hope that I am able to preorder one today at some point but from what I heard probably wont be.

neXus, as for your comment on the gyroscope, it will be used to accompany the accelerometer for gaming mostly. However, if the gyroscope is also put together with the compass which they have, Im sure itll have more use than gaming. Im thinking some sat nav companies (eg. TomTom and Navigon) would use that to make it more accurate to pinpoint where you are and if you turned around, it immediately does that on screen rather than a few seconds to turn your car around and wait for the gps to correct itself.

I ordered mine yesterday for collection in the Belfast Apple store. They were sold out of the pre-orders by early afternoon.

Orange have their price plans out now. Think a lot of people will move to Orange if O2 dont have the unlimited internet.

http://iphone.orange.co.uk/plans/#iphone-plans

Orange dont have unlimited internet.  Its 500mb.


Edit.

Seems its 750mb on iPhone.

Oh yeah, didnt read the *

Still its 50% more than O2 for the same price.

Depends how long the contract you want and what youre willing to pay a month on top of buying the phone.

For me Id get £45 a month on 24 months to get unlimited internet and texts and 1200 mins. O2 only have 750MB data compared to Oranges unlimited!! May tempt me to move to Orange.

I used to be with Orange before moving to O2. Whats the service and reception like under Orange?

Edit: Just seen the * too. Not really unlimited is it!! Misleading or what?

With Orange it may not matter as much if you go over the limit though....as it is more of a fair usage policy....where as O2 just say 500Mb straight up?

I had to laugh :lol:

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/apple

 :heehaw: That is pretty funny!

O2 have released their pricing and plans now too

http://shop.o2.co.uk/new-iphone/tariffs.html


Still Vodafone to go.....

fook me.

Makes me glad to have the desire now, the 4 is going to cost 2x as much!

For the actual phone zpyder or the tariff etc?

In total when you combine the tariff + cost of the phone.

Out of interest, when a contract is up for renewal, what happens? Im kinda hoping in 12 months Ill be able to just keep paying £15 a month for unlimited data etc, but Im guessing they wont let me :D

Quote from: zpyderIn total when you combine the tariff + cost of the phone.

Out of interest, when a contract is up for renewal, what happens? Im kinda hoping in 12 months Ill be able to just keep paying £15 a month for unlimited data etc, but Im guessing they wont let me :D

Strangely enough if I upgrade from my normal phone to an IPhone 4 I end up getting it £5 a month cheaper than what Im currently on.

I would rather have an SE X10 or HTC Desire than any iphone tbh.

Am I right in thinking that neither of those with play flash video? That is a deal breaker for me.

what is it with smart phones not playing flash video? even my old c702 can play flash and even stream live flash off the bbc website, used it to watch a few WC games in work and even watched an entire F1 race on it.

I thought android played flash. Ive seen something in my applications about HTC flash player or something. Can watch youtube and the likes too.

Well, Vodafone have released their tariffs now

http://shop.vodafone.co.uk/iphone/pricing.html

Android 2.1+ supports flash and HTML5

Wasnt HTC due to be releasing 2.2 today?

2.2 isnt finished yet

Quote from: soopahflyAndroid 2.1+ supports flash and HTML5

I think its only 2.2 that does. I have 2.1 and it doesnt.

I thought the score was that the N1 or whatever googles own brand was, got 2.2 a month or so ago. And it was leaked that HTC was going to follow suit with the customised versions around now?

As to supporting flash...I have 2.1 and flash works on my phone...maybe not the latest version though? I dunno.

Nexus One And its only just got the update on the 19th of this month.

Quote from: chrisdickoWith Orange it may not matter as much if you go over the limit though....as it is more of a fair usage policy....where as O2 just say 500Mb straight up?

Yep you are correct, if any Orange plans say unlimited, they are actually unlimited, also they are pretty lax on their FUP at the moment, although there is some work going on to address this.

Also Orange will prob be refreshing their plans in august properly and I expect the unlimited elements will go a similar way to O2.

The orange deals seem one of the worst in terms of tariffs, phone costs etc.

Vodafone have got my vote!

Quote from: chrisdickoThe orange deals seem one of the worst in terms of tariffs, phone costs etc.

Vodafone have got my vote!

depends I guess.  Their higher-end Blackberry plans are the best on the market.  All BIS traffic included, and Ive got 1Gb of data when I checked (thought it was only 500Mb)to use as I want.  Either with 3rd party apps, or tethered at no extra cost.  On the lower plans then yeah, Vodafone win.  Only problem I have with Orange is that they dont support the OS5 native e-mail setup app on the handset where Voda and O2 do, but I dont manage my accounts on the handset anyway.  

Tesco has outdone them all

Quote from: neXusTesco has outdone them all

depends if you want service or not, and after previous experience with tesco electricals I wont put another penny in their tills.  

not sure about the other companies.... but if you;re on contract with O2 you get free calls to all other o" phones 24/7...... which is quite handy if a few of the people you phone are on O2!

Quote from: neXusTesco has outdone them all

With the 12 month contract stuff? Im on a 12 month contract with O2...

Quote from: zpyder

Quote from: neXusTesco has outdone them all

With the 12 month contract stuff? Im on a 12 month contract with O2...

http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/23/tesco-mobile-announces-cheapest-uk-iphone-4-tariffs-yet/

Anyone got one then??

Quote from: chrisdickoAnyone got one then??

My brother text me to tell me he had, git.

Wonder how true the reports are of the phone loosing the signal if you hold it in your hand?!

A few people on other forums have got one, and said the reports are a load of bollox. The 1st report about the loosing of signal came from T3 I think, who slagged the ipad off too.......

Quite true.  I suppose it does make sense. The moisture from your hand would produce a dielectric field that would intefere with the anttena.

I have mine. I can force the signal drop issue if I purposely cover that corner, but not by normal use. I can see someone with smaller hands having issues, but the offending area isnt even close to touching my palm when I use it normally.

Apart from that, its freaking awesome. I used it this morning to shoot 720p footage of my daughters school play.

The screen is unbelievable. Its like going into a furniture shop where they have the fake TVs and computers where the image is just printed out on a sticker. The most obvious test of the higher resolution is that you can read the smallest text on the NY Times home page without zooming in, something that is literally impossible on the previous generation phone. (You wouldnt do this, but you *could*. Build quality is unbelievable. Feels incredibly dense, completely solid. Loving it so far.

Very true id say: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8761240.stm

Quote from: chrisdickoWonder how true the reports are of the phone loosing the signal if you hold it in your hand?!

A few people on other forums have got one, and said the reports are a load of bollox. The 1st report about the loosing of signal came from T3 I think, who slagged the ipad off too.......

Wrong, it was Mac Rumours, and the iPad should be slagged off.

Or of course you could just adopt the jobsian way of thinking.  "Your holding it wrong"

Was going to buy one today but apparently O2 dont want my money. They say theyll only sell to people who already have an O2 contract, PAYG, or home broadband account. I do have a Be account but they are only letting Be customers buy from next week.

Im not in a rush to buy the phone, but as the store in town had some phones in stock and I was passing by I thought that Id have been able to get one now. Seems I was wrong.

Quote from: TheMallratWas going to buy one today but apparently O2 dont want my money. They say theyll only sell to people who already have an O2 contract, PAYG, or home broadband account. I do have a Be account but they are only letting Be customers buy from next week.

Im not in a rush to buy the phone, but as the store in town had some phones in stock and I was passing by I thought that Id have been able to get one now. Seems I was wrong.

tesco supposedly have the best deals.
cheapest price plans & handset prices

Quote from: Eggtastico

Quote from: TheMallratWas going to buy one today but apparently O2 dont want my money. They say theyll only sell to people who already have an O2 contract, PAYG, or home broadband account. I do have a Be account but they are only letting Be customers buy from next week.

Im not in a rush to buy the phone, but as the store in town had some phones in stock and I was passing by I thought that Id have been able to get one now. Seems I was wrong.

tesco supposedly have the best deals.
cheapest price plans & handset prices

(Image removed from quote.)

I get the best deal with O2 though as I get a channel partner discount because I work for DSGi. I did however look into Tesco but when I asked in store they said they wouldnt have the phone in stock until sometime next month.

Holding your iPhone 4G can cause signal issues  :rofl:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8761240.stm

Quote from: TheMallratI get the best deal with O2 though as I get a channel partner discount because I work for DSGi. I did however look into Tesco but when I asked in store they said they wouldnt have the phone in stock until sometime next month.

At the moment where I work the deals on O2 have been suspended pending review, however most of us are on the Orange Retailer discount anyway.  

Quote from: SeriousHolding your iPhone 4G can cause signal issues  :rofl:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8761240.stm

Actually happens on the HTC Hero, Nexus one, HTC 1.
Yeah its bad and apple says to hold it differently yet engadget did a nice post with lots of images from apple adverts of them "holding it wrong" lol.

This is a good read: http://www.antennasys.com/antennasys-blog/2010/6/24/apple-iphone-4-antennas.html

Thing is not all people have the issue. My brother is as conductive as a potato and he can not get signal bars to drop.

I used to have this issue with the Sony Ericsson X1, only holding it pretty much any way would cause the signal to drop. When you did have a signal it sounded like people were talking through cotton wool too.

It is a design issue, there is no doubt about that because your basically shorting them out. Some say you can fix this with software, telling the OS how to handle it could sort it or improve it. Others are not so sure.

Reading about this basically the design concept is great. If you hold it any other way other then covering that slit between both antennas your actually improving the signal yourself, like when your messing with an old TV arial or put your finger in the old TV socket. That is quite clever. The problem is your "Crossing the streams" between the wifi/bluetooth antenna and the main phone antenna.
Maybe if the slit as directly at the bottom it would solve the issue but not look as good on the phone, or a deeper groove to separate them.
Someone suggest that simple rubber on the connectors in the bottom left hand corner inside the phone during manufacture will solve the problem as well.

But as I have also read actually quite a lot of phones have a similar issue, people do not kick up a fuss as much or/and the other phones with issues just do not get as much media attention. Some of the blackberry range apperently loose signal if you hold it on certain ways and it effects everyone differently on the scale. Depends on how your body is.


I still think it is a cock up on design and it will be interesting to see if Apple change their tune on it, FCC approved the phone but testing is done with machines and no one actually holding the phone in that way but they may take another look and if its a hardware flaw they could force apple to fix the issue and free upgrade current users. They have done that before on products, we will have to see.

On the other hand a lot of people saying they have not had this issue and 95% of your use will be unaffected. The times you hold it like that you will not be making a call or using wifi etc.

Will be interesting to see how it unfolds.

Lol.  What a shower of wankers at Apple...

Quote from: EagleLol.  What a shower of wankers at Apple...

Iz u a h8ter?  u dnt lyk Apple, so u suck ;)

Quote from: neXusIt is a design issue, there is no doubt about that because your basically shorting them out. Some say you can fix this with software, telling the OS how to handle it could sort it or improve it. Others are not so sure.

That reminds me about the X1 forums I was on, and people complaining about the lack of an accelerometer, there were quite a few people that though it would be possible for SE to program an accelerometer into an update ><

Quote from: neXusIt is a design issue, there is no doubt about that because your basically shorting them out. Some say you can fix this with software, telling the OS how to handle it could sort it or improve it. Others are not so sure.

Theoretically you could adjust the signal strength going through the antennas.  However its not a fix by any stretch, by tweaking the power outputs you can reduce interference up to a point.  However as a result youre going to compromise the signal strength as a result because youre going to have to drop the power outputs.  

That said, most people wont care anyway.  Theyll have their iPhone, and theyll wave it around thinking they have the greatest thing ever.  

Quote from: soopahfly

Quote from: chrisdickoWonder how true the reports are of the phone loosing the signal if you hold it in your hand?!

A few people on other forums have got one, and said the reports are a load of bollox. The 1st report about the loosing of signal came from T3 I think, who slagged the ipad off too.......

Wrong, it was Mac Rumours, and the iPad should be slagged off.

Or of course you could just adopt the jobsian way of thinking.  "Your holding it wrong"

LOL, What did I say?

clear nail polish fixes it instantly. I guess they will at some point put some form of thin film you do not notice in later manufacture but someone has also re-milled the grove and found it to work better so there is rather simple solutions.
They should have replacements if they do though.

Quote from: neXusclear nail polish fixes it instantly. I guess they will at some point put some form of thin film you do not notice in later manufacture but someone has also re-milled the grove and found it to work better so there is rather simple solutions.
They should have replacements if they do though.

so you have to paint sh*t on it, and void your warranty as a result.  Or you need to get access to a milling machine, or be very good with small engineering tools, pull it to bits an void your warranty.  

Pathetic.

Quote from: Beaker

Quote from: neXusclear nail polish fixes it instantly. I guess they will at some point put some form of thin film you do not notice in later manufacture but someone has also re-milled the grove and found it to work better so there is rather simple solutions.
They should have replacements if they do though.

so you have to paint sh*t on it, and void your warranty as a result.  Or you need to get access to a milling machine, or be very good with small engineering tools, pull it to bits an void your warranty.  

Pathetic.

I was referring to them doing it on newer batches . Besides more is coming out that not everyone has the issue. My brother for the life of him can not loose a signal doing it.

Looks like they/you wont need to. OS update coming very soon apperently.
Seems to be to do with the baseband calibration and apperently you can replicate the issue on a 3GS and 3G with IOS4 installed.

Quote from: neXusclear nail polish fixes it instantly. I guess they will at some point put some form of thin film you do not notice in later manufacture but someone has also re-milled the grove and found it to work better so there is rather simple solutions.
They should have replacements if they do though.

Wouldnt the bumper things they sell for them fix the issue? Convenient that.

I wonder how much fun it would be to return it under the "Not Fit For Purpose" laws.  I bet Apple would be getting pissy.  

Ill have to see about the update.
I bet Apple will fudge the signal bars as they make changes though so it wont look so bad. As long as a call wont drop then they can blame poor signals on AT&T and other carriers again, lol

I think they key with Aplle is that the set themselves up to fall further. They have issues with products that are no different then other companies but the hype the create just is stupid. The claims and everything. In terms of marketing it works but when a product has issues the get a bigger backlash.

Simplest option might be try covering the gap with some tape. Wouldnt really look that good but might work.

Quote from: SeriousSimplest option might be try covering the gap with some tape. Wouldnt really look that good but might work.

People already have and it does.

Quote"There is no reception issue. Stay tuned,"

From Steve.

May be just bad software code in dealing with the issue and as some said is now starting to sound like a software issue.

Time will tell but I still find it hard to believe any company would develop a phone and if the issue was this bad that no one would notice this problem and that anyone would mass produce a product with such a problem.
No matter how you want to think about Apple no company I can see in their right mind would launch with such a big hardware flaw, just hard to fathom.

Remember all the field test units were inside fake iPhone 3GS cases to disguise them. That said, I still dont think Apple would have let that sneak out with a massive HW fault like this.

Quote from: GoblinRemember all the field test units were inside fake iPhone 3GS cases to disguise them. That said, I still dont think Apple would have let that sneak out with a massive HW fault like this.

That was a theory, yeah. But that has been discounted by a number of manufactures and prototypers etc. It was only the field tests. There will have been plenty on campus testing without the cases. One of apples fundamentals (It is like their 10 commandments) is about how the product feels so it is unlikely they did not come across the issue.

I hope as BIG questions need to be asked if otherwise though as knowing the above if it is hardware Apple launched a product with a fundamental flaw to get money and the US Guv and FCC and others who are already looking at a number of software practises at Apple would be on them like a shot and Apple would quickly be in the crap.
If found guilty and their software practises also Apples reputation would very quickly be ripped to shreds and they would be back at square one. This is not fantasy, they could really fall on their own sword.
They would know this know, it would be just mind numbingly stupid to think they could get away with that. It is just very hard to figure this would be the case, not impossible, but man this would be one of the biggest balls ups of a company. The arrogance, the stupidity and guts to think they would get away with it, just can not see it as likely.

It is more likely that because Apple are supposed to make perfect products all the time, I like their products but they are far from perfect, I have yet to by something that has been close to perfect though. BUT apple tout themselves in that way and so when a product has issue a big fuss is kicked up about it. This could all be just blown out of proportion and the software update fixes it and could have been something that appeared as a result of a change or tweak in the latter builds of the OS.