Author Topic: Japanese earthquake  (Read 20372 times)

Re: Japanese earthquake
Reply #30 on: March 14, 2011, 07:45:46 AM
Some of the "Experts" on the BBC are saying that this is a desperate measure, and we could be about to watch the next Chernobyl.

That's scaremongering, Chernobyl R4 was running out of control at ~500 times maximum power when it blew the top off the containment, mainly because the RBMK is the single most stupid nuclear reactor design ever used for commercial generation. The entire concrete pilecap weighing something like 100 tons was lifted into the air, flipped over and fell back onto the core. This smashed what was left of the graphite moderator stack and hurled fuel and graphite hundreds of meters from the core. The situation was made even worse by the graphite and fuel catching fire. The plume went high into the atmosphere and fallout spread across the world.

These Japanese reactors are fully shut down and have been for several days. Worst case, R3's containment gives way and you would then have some very nasty contamination in the local area, but there just isn't the potential for a Chernobyl level accident.

The yanks only think it's a desperate measure to pump sea water in because doing so will write off the reactors, but considering the alternative is a potential for meltdown, it's the correct thing to do.

Re: Japanese earthquake
Reply #31 on: March 14, 2011, 08:13:31 AM
Yeah I know,  hence writing "Experts".

The fact that these reactors are about a million times better built than the Soviet ones tends to mean that unless something utterly catastrophic happens, we're unlikely to see another Chernobyl ever again.
The containment shell still being intact is testimony to the sheer build quality of these things.

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Re: Japanese earthquake
Reply #32 on: March 14, 2011, 09:24:19 AM
yeah I figured you were probably well aware.

Even back in the 50s and 60s, no non-soviet government would have licensed the RBMK on safety grounds, and even in spite of the stupid design and horrible lack of proper containment, Chernobyl R4 only blew up because the operators were performing an insane experiment and had specifically over-ridden most of the safety equipment which did exist.

Re: Japanese earthquake
Reply #33 on: March 14, 2011, 09:44:12 AM
"What could possibly go wrong?"

I didn't realise though, that they were still running reactors at Chernobyl up to 2000.

What I don't like is that all the greenies are championing this as proof that Nuclear is unsafe.
Last Edit: March 14, 2011, 09:46:00 AM by soopahfly #187;

Re: Japanese earthquake
Reply #34 on: March 14, 2011, 09:53:48 AM
me either. Frankly, as long as the containments hold, this should be seen as a demonstration of exactly how safe these things are. They took the brunt of an event which has totaled entire towns and the worst thing that has happened is a little bit of slightly radioactive steam and the Tokyo Electric Company has lost the use of 2-3 of its oldest and most clapped out reactors. TBH the chemical plants which must have been hit by this wave will have done 1000s of times more environmental damage, probably more even than if the containments on all three reactors crack. After all, wildlife actually seems to rather like the Chernobyl "dead zone".



I had a feeling it was while I was working at BNFL in 01/02 that they shut the last Chernobyl reactor down but the Wiki page for the RBMK says you're right at 2000 so it must have been start of decommissioning that I remember. The more worrying thing is that the Kursk, Leningrad and Smolensk stations are all still operating RBMK's, albeit with safety modifications made since 1986. I am generally pro nuclear power, but I am very much anti-RBMK reactors, I'll be happy when they're all shut down.
Last Edit: March 14, 2011, 10:06:20 AM by Mongoose #187;

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Re: Japanese earthquake
Reply #36 on: March 14, 2011, 13:39:11 PM
http://www.last.fm/user/skidzilla

skidzilla

skidzilla.googlepages.com/…Last seen: yesterday evening

Assumedly alive then  :)

Re: Japanese earthquake
Reply #37 on: March 14, 2011, 13:40:37 PM

that's a pretty big explosion....

then skip ahead to about 4 min to see the water incoming....  :worried:

Re: Japanese earthquake
Reply #38 on: March 14, 2011, 13:47:11 PM
http://www.last.fm/user/skidzilla

skidzilla

skidzilla.googlepages.com/…Last seen: yesterday evening

Assumedly alive then  :)

I was just about to post about that.


Re: Japanese earthquake
Reply #39 on: March 14, 2011, 14:51:14 PM
1431: More from Japanese nuclear engineer Masashi Goto: He say that as the reactor uses mox (mixed oxide) fuel, the melting point is lower than that of conventional fuel. Should a meltdown and an explosion occur, he says, plutonium could be spread over an area up to twice as far as estimated for a conventional nuclear fuel explosion. The next 24 hours are critical, he says.

1426: Mr Goto says his greatest fear is that blasts at number 3 and number 1 reactors may have damaged the steel casing of the containment vessel designed to stop radioactive material escaping into the atmosphere. More to follow.

1422: Japanese engineer Masashi Goto, who helped design the containment vessel for Fukushima's reactor core, says the design was not enough to withstand earthquakes or tsunamis and the plant's builders, Toshiba, knew this. More on Mr Goto's remarks to follow.

Re: Japanese earthquake
Reply #40 on: March 14, 2011, 23:17:02 PM
I think the third reactor's just gone.

edit.

2316: Kyodo now says that the suppression pool may have been damaged at the second reactor.

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Re: Japanese earthquake
Reply #41 on: March 14, 2011, 23:25:09 PM
I think the third reactor's just gone.

edit.

2316: Kyodo now says that the suppression pool may have been damaged at the second reactor.

Aye, not looking good, going to bed now but I have the feeling that there's going to be a lot of bad news when I wake up, missus' bro is supposed to be going to Japan this Thursday!

Re: Japanese earthquake
Reply #42 on: March 15, 2011, 07:48:43 AM
I don't like the look of the latest reports at all, third explosion and now radiation levels harmful to human health and a fire.

Re: Japanese earthquake
Reply #43 on: March 15, 2011, 23:19:32 PM
seems to have settled down a bit now, last i heard at least 2 reactors were cooling with sea water and it was working ok

Re: Japanese earthquake
Reply #44 on: March 15, 2011, 23:39:59 PM
indeed, it's looking like the high rad levels earlier were from the fire in the cooling ponds of R4, although how a cooling pond full of water can catch fire is a bit of a mystery to me.

I'm still a bit concerned by R2, but the longer everything stays more or less under control the better the situation gets because the residual activity in the cores will be decaying all the time. It will be interesting (if we ever find out) to see how much melting actually took place in the 3 cores which are damaged. From the information we have, R2 spent a considerable time totally uncovered so I'd be quite surprised if it didn't have at least a partial meltdown. Thank God for ceramic fuel, if this was an older uranium metal design meltdown would have been much more serious.

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