Quote from: Serious

Quote from: Beakerbut then again nobody has _conclusively_ proved it doesnt either.  Similarly nobody has _conclusively_ proved that passive smoking is bad for you either.  Studies have shown that it "may" be a contributing factor.

Even the tobacco companies have admitted in court that it is adictive, causes health problems and can kill you.

yes the tobacco companies admitted it was addictive, but they didnt say it caused health problems and killed you, they admitted it was linked.  Smoking isnt the only thing that causes cancer you know.

Quote from: Beakerby explaining the problem he gives them a choice to still take the job or not, and in the public bar payscale youll find other jobs that pay the same and dont mean working in a smokey atmosphere.

yes - I think you missed the point - some people dont really have that choice. Im not in that position at the moment but there are plenty of students out there who need cash in the summer & pretty much have to take what is given if they are not quick enough & also for unemployed people it may well be the only option they have on offer at the time - IIRC people claiming jobseekers allowance have to turn up to interviews for potential jobs.

QuoteSoldiers are likely to be shot at, and they take their job knowing this.  They dont expect the other dudes to not shoot at them because its dangerous.  :\

they are also given equipment to deal with it (well most of the time anyway)

Quote from: Beaker

Quote from: Serious

Quote from: Beakerbut then again nobody has _conclusively_ proved it doesnt either.  Similarly nobody has _conclusively_ proved that passive smoking is bad for you either.  Studies have shown that it "may" be a contributing factor.

Even the tobacco companies have admitted in court that it is adictive, causes health problems and can kill you.

yes the tobacco companies admitted it was addictive, but they didnt say it caused health problems and killed you, they admitted it was linked.  Smoking isnt the only thing that causes cancer you know.

Smoking, due to its nature i.e. a fluid which can diffuse through a room is a very potent carcinogen, affecting everyone including the smoker. It is also full of carcinogenic agents not just one, like benzene in certain chemicals... it is also directly taken into the lungs and blood, so it is very direct, too.... why people still want to smoke and want to burden people with this wretched habit is beyond me....

I wont run into your living room when you are watching match of the day and sh*t on the sofa, as long as you dont come into a pub where i am drinking and smoke... deal?

Quote from: brummieI smoked about 20-25 a day for about 7years. I agree you got the sense of a stress relief but the stress was probably brought on mainly from not having enough nicotine in your body.

Your body produces its own anti stress chemicals, if you inhale nicoteine then it will tend to replace the natural alternatives and your body will produce less to compensate, this is why so many people who try to give up suffer massive stress problems while doing so, that bad attitude isnt just the lack of nicotine its the lack of the bodys natural versions that it has given up producing. Eventually people end up smoking not to feel better but just not to feel worse. Its the same with all addictive drugs.

Of course a lot of addiction is partly due to genetics, some people loose a lot more of their own anti-stress chemicals than others so that while they might go through all forms of hell the others dont feel it at all.

Even thats not the whole story as many women dont smoke for the nicotine at all, its the ritual of lighting up and smoking that gets them, give these people nicotine replacement gum or patches and it just doesnt work!

Quote from: Daveyes - I think you missed the point - some people dont really have that choice. Im not in that position at the moment but there are plenty of students out there who need cash in the summer & pretty much have to take what is given if they are not quick enough & also for unemployed people it may well be the only option they have on offer at the time - IIRC people claiming jobseekers allowance have to turn up to interviews for potential jobs.

Yup, but when i was looking before i started my present job there where shedloads of jobs that paid the same as pub work, places like Asda, Morrisons etc _always_ had vacancies.  Pubs actually tend to have less jobs available than supermarkets, when i finished working for S&N a good few years back i tried hunting down a pub job, couldnt find one anywhere and it was the run up to Christmas when you would think pubs would be employing, hell even the relief circuit was too dead to even consider.  

Quotethey are also given equipment to deal with it (well most of the time anyway)

so they could have given the people who work in the bars breathing apparatus if they asked yes?  

Quote from: BadabingI wont run into your living room when you are watching match of the day and sh*t on the sofa, as long as you dont come into a pub where i am drinking and smoke... deal?

nope, argument invalid.  The pub isnt your living room, its the landlord/landladys.  If they want to allow smoking then they should be able to, however if i was invited round to your house I either wouldnt smoke, or i would go outside for a cig, i wouldnt even ask you if i could smoke in the house.  Hell i even have a nasty habit of asking if people mind me smoking in my OWN house!

yes you still dont understand the point

there are not always going to be alternatives - just because you found several jobs when you happened to be looking in a particular area at a particular point in time doesnt mean that all the other hundreds of thousands of people who are looking for work are going to be so lucky.

as for providing them with respirators - how many pubs are going to allow that? (aside from your local biker pub whos customers may well be into that sort of thing )

Quote from: Beaker

Quote from: BadabingI wont run into your living room when you are watching match of the day and sh*t on the sofa, as long as you dont come into a pub where i am drinking and smoke... deal?

nope, argument invalid.  The pub isnt your living room, its the landlord/landladys.  If they want to allow smoking then they should be able to, however if i was invited round to your house I either wouldnt smoke, or i would go outside for a cig, i wouldnt even ask you if i could smoke in the house.  Hell i even have a nasty habit of asking if people mind me smoking in my OWN house!

You see what you are saying is, i want to smoke, so other peoples wishes are not relevant... it really is down to how selfish people are...

Quote from: Daveyes you still dont understand the point

there are not always going to be alternatives - just because you found several jobs when you happened to be looking in a particular area at a particular point in time doesnt mean that all the other hundreds of thousands of people who are looking for work are going to be so lucky.

There are almost always alternatives, thinking of the little viliages dotted around the Fylde(Blackpool) area youll find lots of farm type work, plucking chickens, picking spuds etc etc.  Some mates when they where younger used to spend summers harvesting and winters plucking chickens.  Others would do things like delivery work, or general labouring.  Most towns (and these days a lot of villiages) have supermarkets, 24 hour garages etc.  Almost always under-staffed, and invariably advertising somewhere for employees.  I understand the point, but job centers are also required to supply you the details of "relevant" work these days.  THinking back 10 years tomy last visit to one things have changed massively.  They gave me alist of jobs that i _had_ to apply for and attend the interviews if i got, even for jobs i wouldnt ever consider doing or i didnt get a penny!

Quoteas for providing them with respirators - how many pubs are going to allow that? (aside from your local biker pub whos customers may well be into that sort of thing )

nah, the bikers where i drink think the cybergoths are _very_ odd.

Quote from: BeakerThe pub isnt your living room, its the landlord/landladys.  If they want to allow smoking then they should be able to, however if i was invited round to your house I either wouldnt smoke, or i would go outside for a cig, i wouldnt even ask you if i could smoke in the house.  Hell i even have a nasty habit of asking if people mind me smoking in my OWN house!

The no smoking ban is still for the protection of employees, not non-smoking people buying drinks. Perhaps you would like everyone else to go outside, including the staff while you smoked?

Quote from: Badabing

Quote from: Beaker

Quote from: BadabingI wont run into your living room when you are watching match of the day and sh*t on the sofa, as long as you dont come into a pub where i am drinking and smoke... deal?

nope, argument invalid.  The pub isnt your living room, its the landlord/landladys.  If they want to allow smoking then they should be able to, however if i was invited round to your house I either wouldnt smoke, or i would go outside for a cig, i wouldnt even ask you if i could smoke in the house.  Hell i even have a nasty habit of asking if people mind me smoking in my OWN house!

You see what you are saying is, i want to smoke, so other peoples wishes are not relevant... it really is down to how selfish people are...

no, what im saying is that if the landlord is willing to let people smoke in his house then he should be allowed to let them.  It is his business, and in most cases his home as well.  Incentives should have been put in place to make it worthwhile making a pub non-smoking.  I enjoy a cig, but as i said, if im in mainly non-smoking company i dont smoke.  likewise most non-smokers i know dont complain about smoking when they are in the minority and we are out boozing.
What has happend with the law isnt adding freedom to people, it has taken it away.  Legislating against something isnt how it should be done, legislating FOR something is far better.  Doing something like giving tax breaks to non-smoking establishments would have given choice to everyone, because most breweries would have instantly taken the non-smoking route instantly anyway.  

Quote from: Serious

Quote from: BeakerThe pub isnt your living room, its the landlord/landladys.  If they want to allow smoking then they should be able to, however if i was invited round to your house I either wouldnt smoke, or i would go outside for a cig, i wouldnt even ask you if i could smoke in the house.  Hell i even have a nasty habit of asking if people mind me smoking in my OWN house!

The no smoking ban is still for the protection of employees, not non-smoking people buying drinks. Perhaps you would like everyone else to go outside, including the staff while you smoked?

read up the thread, comments about knowing the risks and supplying relevant PPE

Quote from: Beaker

Quote from: Badabing

Quote from: Beaker

Quote from: Badabinglegislating FOR something is far better.

Like FOR fresh air in work environments.

Quote from: bearLike FOR fresh air in work environments.

hahaha

Yeah really?  If that is true then how come the legislation doesnt mention anything about Sewage Farms, Welding shops, Drain Workers, Mechanics etc etc etc?  

Its got bugger all to do with clean air at work, its a law targeted at a Minority.

Stop acting so damn hard done by.  Its not going to do you any harm to pop outside for a fag, and itll keep everyone else happy.  Hardly much of a sacrifice is it?