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Good job as-well,


The officer on manslaughter charges got off, as a Kid in Sailing, windsurfing, jet skiing and as big boy in my speedboat, I wake jumped but I never went in front, I was told to keep out of shipping lanes, by harbour police, you cant miss them they are lit green and red,  big ships cant swerve, that stupid yacht could have, it also hit the ferry, what were 3 men doing, probably bumming each other.


I suppose the 37,000-tonne ferry, the Pride of Bilbao, should have swerved.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,2201523,00.html

Yes it should. Maritime law states that.

I doubt they were buming each other you idiot, it was probably the worst moments of their life, and they would have had problems with their boat/sails, or im guess they probably would have moved!

Quote from: chrisdickoYes it should. Maritime law states that.

I doubt they were buming each other you idiot, it was probably the worst moments of their life, and they would have had problems with their boat/sails, or im guess they probably would have moved!

actually maritime law states that in a small boat must give way to something that size, because the small boat can get out of the way much more quickly than a 75000Tonne ship.  Often referred to as "Might Has Right"

Quote from: PrivateerGood job as-well,


The officer on manslaughter charges got off, as a Kid in Sailing, windsurfing, jet skiing and as big boy in my speedboat, I wake jumped but I never went in front, I was told to keep out of shipping lanes, by harbour police, you cant miss them they are lit green and red,  big ships cant swerve, that stupid yacht could have, it also hit the ferry, what were 3 men doing, probably bumming each other.


I suppose the 37,000-tonne ferry, the Pride of Bilbao, should have swerved.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,2201523,00.html

you have such a warm outlook on life, its so warm and fuzzy.

Quote from: PrivateerGood job as-well,


The officer on manslaughter charges got off, as a Kid in Sailing, windsurfing, jet skiing and as big boy in my speedboat, I wake jumped but I never went in front, I was told to keep out of shipping lanes, by harbour police, you cant miss them they are lit green and red,  big ships cant swerve, that stupid yacht could have, it also hit the ferry, what were 3 men doing, probably bumming each other.


I suppose the 37,000-tonne ferry, the Pride of Bilbao, should have swerved.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,2201523,00.html

Huh?

What you wrote makes very little sense.

Cheers
Tongy

Il a un occule.

Quote from: Tongy

Quote from: PrivateerGood job as-well,


The officer on manslaughter charges got off, as a Kid in Sailing, windsurfing, jet skiing and as big boy in my speedboat, I wake jumped but I never went in front, I was told to keep out of shipping lanes, by harbour police, you cant miss them they are lit green and red,  big ships cant swerve, that stupid yacht could have, it also hit the ferry, what were 3 men doing, probably bumming each other.


I suppose the 37,000-tonne ferry, the Pride of Bilbao, should have swerved.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,2201523,00.html

Huh?

What you wrote makes very little sense.

Cheers
Tongy

My thoughts exactly!

Quote from: chrisdickoYes it should. Maritime law states that.

I doubt they were buming each other you idiot, it was probably the worst moments of their life, and they would have had problems with their boat/sails, or im guess they probably would have moved!

How do you think that officer felt, being dragged through court, with manslaughter charges on you and knowing that three men hit your boat.

if they had descent life rafts i expect they would still be here.

also the solent is my back yard, Ive sailed it all my life and Ive been on the Pride of Bilbao, I was completely confindent.

Quote from: Privateer

Quote from: chrisdickoYes it should. Maritime law states that.

I doubt they were buming each other you idiot, it was probably the worst moments of their life, and they would have had problems with their boat/sails, or im guess they probably would have moved!

How do you think that officer felt, being dragged through court, with manslaughter charges on you and knowing that three men hit your boat.

if they had descent life rafts i expect they would still be here.

also the solent is my back yard, Ive sailed it all my life and Ive been on the Pride of Bilbao, I was completely confindent.

You do talk a right load of crap!

Its about him being charged with gross negligence, and so he should be!  Flipping idiot, whether he had right of way or not, he should have at the very least contacted a coast guard.  You defence is that if they had decent life rafts they would still be here?!?

I think you should be banned from posting new threads.  Honestly!!

Quote from: Beaker

Quote from: chrisdickoYes it should. Maritime law states that.

I doubt they were buming each other you idiot, it was probably the worst moments of their life, and they would have had problems with their boat/sails, or im guess they probably would have moved!

actually maritime law states that in a small boat must give way to something that size, because the small boat can get out of the way much more quickly than a 75000Tonne ship.  Often referred to as "Might Has Right"

I thought that sail had right of way? OR at least used to a long time ago :?

/looks it up on wikipedia

QuoteIf a collision is imminent both vessels must take avoiding action even if one vessel (this is the stand-on vessel) would normally take no action. Not to do so, if there is an opportunity, may make the sailor the guilty party at an inquiry. The use of the term right of way is borrowed from yacht racing environment, does not appear in internationally recognised rules for vessels not racing and is inappropriate to all other vessels and situations .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailing#Sailing_regulations

Quote from: redIl a un occule.

Comment?

Il na pas de sens, la grammaire nest pas un secret! Il nest pas retardé...

Cheers
Tongy

mon francais cest terrible, je suis alle mon lecon en 45 minute tu chein.

Quote from: Serious

Quote from: Beaker

Quote from: chrisdickoYes it should. Maritime law states that.

I doubt they were buming each other you idiot, it was probably the worst moments of their life, and they would have had problems with their boat/sails, or im guess they probably would have moved!

actually maritime law states that in a small boat must give way to something that size, because the small boat can get out of the way much more quickly than a 75000Tonne ship.  Often referred to as "Might Has Right"

I thought that sail had right of way? OR at least used to a long time ago :?

/looks it up on wikipedia

QuoteIf a collision is imminent both vessels must take avoiding action even if one vessel (this is the stand-on vessel) would normally take no action. Not to do so, if there is an opportunity, may make the sailor the guilty party at an inquiry. The use of the term right of way is borrowed from yacht racing environment, does not appear in internationally recognised rules for vessels not racing and is inappropriate to all other vessels and situations .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailing#Sailing_regulations

I was taught when I was in the merchant navy that sail does have right of way still. As a sail boat with no motor cannot move if there is no wind, so hence the other ship had power to manouver......although they didnt.

Quote from: mrt

Quote from: Privateer

Quote from: chrisdickoYes it should. Maritime law states that.

I doubt they were buming each other you idiot, it was probably the worst moments of their life, and they would have had problems with their boat/sails, or im guess they probably would have moved!

How do you think that officer felt, being dragged through court, with manslaughter charges on you and knowing that three men hit your boat.

if they had descent life rafts i expect they would still be here.

also the solent is my back yard, Ive sailed it all my life and Ive been on the Pride of Bilbao, I was completely confindent.

You do talk a right load of crap!

Its about him being charged with gross negligence, and so he should be!  Flipping idiot, whether he had right of way or not, he should have at the very least contacted a coast guard.  You defence is that if they had decent life rafts they would still be here?!?

I think you should be banned from posting new threads.  Honestly!!

I was out in the Solent windsurfing, I fell off in huge swell, it took me ages to get going, I drifted into a shipping Lane, I saw a ferry but he couldnt see me, I was lucky I got going, I was within seconds of being hit, I did not sue the Caption or officer for gross negligence, I counted my lucky stars.

Quote from: PrivateerI was out in the Solent windsurfing, I fell off in huge swell, it took me ages to get going, I drifted into a shipping Lane, I saw a ferry but he couldnt see me, I was lucky I got going, I was within seconds of being hit, I did not sue the Caption or officer for gross negligence, I counted my lucky stars.

Translation please.  :lol:

You didnt sue them as you didnt have anything to sue them for.......

What he should have been done for is gross negligence. He failed to acknowledge an accident, nor report it. If he had done so, then those men would have been alive today.

And yes... the sailboat, should have given way.

Accident caused by the sailboat.
Deaths... by the ferry captain.

Im sure the sail boat shouldnt have given way according to proper procedings. But using half your head obviously if you were in the sail boat you would have given way.

Quote from: chrisdickoIm sure the sail boat shouldnt have given way according to proper procedings. But using half your head obviously if you were in the sail boat you would have given way.

No.

The sailboat was in the wrong.

From the International Regulations for collision avoidance at sea.

Quote9. Narrow channels
A vessel proceeding along a narrow channel must keep to starboard.
Small vessels or sailing vessels must not impede (larger) vessels which can navigate only within a narrow channel.
Ships must not cross a channel if to do so would impede another vessel which can navigate only within that channel.

QuoteA sailing vessel must give way to:
a vessel not under command;
a vessel restricted in ability to maneuver;
a vessel engaged in fishing.

And the final word...

QuoteAny vessel other than a vessel not under command or a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, avoid impeding the safe passage of a vessel constrained by her draft, exhibiting the signals in Rule 28.

And for the captain of the ferry.

Quote"316. No person shall—
f...... refuse or fail to give all reasonable assistance, when called upon to do so, .."

The sanction for contravention of this section is a fine or imprisonment for a period not exceeding one year.

The Merchant Shipping (Safe Manning) Regulations, 1999, Annex 1 Part 1 states,

"Principles to be observed in Keeping Navigational Watch;
11. A proper look-out shall be maintained at all times in compliance with rule 5 of the annex to the collision regulations, and shall serve the purpose of —
(c) detecting ships or aircraft in distress, shipwrecked persons, wrecks, debris and other hazards to safe navigation."

Edit what I just wrote.

But

QuoteRule 18

Responsibilities Between Vessels

Except where rule 9, 10, and 13 otherwise require:

(a)A power driven vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:

(i)a vessel not under command;

(ii)a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;

(iii)a vessel engaged in fishing;

(iv)a sailing vessel;

Rule 9 doesnt count, as it wasnt a narrow channel.

It was a narrow channel, that a larger ship was restricted to. The sailing vessel crossed it.

Shipping lanes = Narrow channel. They do not apply to smaller vessels due to differences in draft.

That shipping channel isnt narrow though! Its Huge. A narrow channel would be something like the Suez canal.

Quote from: chrisdickoThat shipping channel isnt narrow though! Its Huge. A narrow channel would be something like the Suez canal.

Still narrow when in comparison to the open sea.

Very true.

But it isnt a narrow channel still.

Quote from: chrisdickoVery true.

But it isnt a narrow channel still.

Its a narrow channel. :)

either way... what about:

QuoteAny vessel other than a vessel not under command or a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, avoid impeding the safe passage of a vessel constrained by her draft, exhibiting the signals in Rule 28.  

Ferry = a vessel constrained by her draft.

guys I seriously doubt those three men just sat there saying "well were not moving weve got right of way" - they may well have been having some difficulty with their boat - no one is going to just sit there while a frickin huge ferry is coming at you.

Yes that officer is clearly incompetent - I mean what sort of human being when involved in a situation where he might have done some serious damadge/killed someone just makes an assumption about it and decides to carry on... I guess the same sort of people who do hit and runs....

He could have got someone to check at the very least....

I mean what went through his head "erm I might have killed some people then, but probably not, ah well lets just crack on and hope it didnt happen

tis a very cavalier thing to do & when peoples lives are potentially at stake it is inexcusable

yea i dont think anyone would argue the rules
however what he did in ignoring the incident and carrying on regardless is inexcusable and there should be some kind of punishment
excuse me if i dont think the "hell have their deaths on his conscience" blurb is good enough, if he had one of those he would have done something about it

Oh yeah, I fully agree that they sail boat will and should have done something, as they were a competant crew. And that the officer of the Bilbao was an idiot!

Metalhead, well have to agree to disagree I think. As the Bilbo only had a draft of 6m, and the position it was when hit, that isnt a factor at all. The channel is easily deep enough for a draft of 20 - 30m.

Quote from: M3ta7h3ad

Quote from: chrisdickoThat shipping channel isnt narrow though! Its Huge. A narrow channel would be something like the Suez canal.

Still narrow when in comparison to the open sea.

Outside shipping channels the solent is treacherous, I hit sand banks often, the shipping channels in the solent are not very wide.

From the flats next to me you can see the Isle of White, the Solent is not as wide as people think.

I live in Fareham.

the solent,



 I moved into  Solent Breezers at age 12, solent Breezers has its own slipway.
http://www.hampshireholidays.com/


basically the way the solent works, it a known fact shipping lanes are safe,
 we all use them to avoid sand banks
but we know of the dangers, the Solent is the busiest stretch of water in the world,
if we see a ferry we get out of his way its his lane, the yacht didnt and paid the price, the yacht shouldnt
have been there.
Lanes clearly marked out, not the ferries fault.


Edit. Our local news covered it intesly, Winchester Crown court has found the man not guilty on all charges.

Quote from: chrisdickoOh yeah, I fully agree that they sail boat will and should have done something, as they were a competant crew. And that the officer of the Bilbao was an idiot!

Metalhead, well have to agree to disagree I think. As the Bilbo only had a draft of 6m, and the position it was when hit, that isnt a factor at all. The channel is easily deep enough for a draft of 20 - 30m.

The  blokes in the sail boat should have shot a flare.

even  windsurfing I carried a Flare, descent life jacket have flare, 3 competant men no flare, that raises a question.

Shipping Lanes are like motorways, if someone hit you going the wrong way, would you be happy if you got blamed for the accident.

Those pics are NO WHERE NEAR where the incident happened.

Shipping lanes arent like motorways at all....

theyre more like single carriage ways with a double solid white line up the middle. :D

what kind of idiot carries a flare windsurfing.

Quote from: redwhat kind of idiot carries a flare windsurfing.

just dont ask where he keeps it.... :shock:

i dont see the point, if you have the need to warn others around you when you are windsurfing you have to be shockingly crap to avoid large vessels.

Quote from: M3ta7h3adtheyre more like single carriage ways with a double solid white line up the middle. :D

 :lol:  :lol:

Privateer, so in theory what your saying is, in your younger days you used to play on motorways?!  :lol:  :lol:

Quote from: chrisdickoPrivateer, so in theory what your saying is, in your younger days you used to play on motorways?!  :lol:  :lol:

It explains a lot!  :D :D

heres the thing, if a sailboat hits a container sh*t, its the sailboats fault. 500 tonnes doesnt stop very quickly.

I agree red, but as me and metalhead agreed to disagree in......there is a rule (18) which says:

Quotea)A power driven vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:

(i)a vessel not under command;

(ii)a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;

(iii)a vessel engaged in fishing;

(iv)a sailing vessel;

Metalhead quoted a different rules about the narrowness etc. But we disagree which is fair enough.

But yeah, you wouldnt sit in a tiny sailboat and wait the container ship to move!

common sense imo.

ooo is that big ship going to stop for my tiny little boat.

100% agree mate!

I read a report which said just near9ish) the collision, the Bilbo did change course, and the sailboat maybe though it was for them (rule 18), but it was actually just a change in course it always takes across them waters.

If anyone wants to waste 10mins of their lives http://www.rya.org.uk/NR/rdonlyres/60475AB0-CB12-45B9-BDCC-1E80129524D3/0/MAIBReport.pdf

Quote from: redwhat kind of idiot carries a flare windsurfing.

A safe one, the solent is dangerouse.

lol, the solent isnt at all. windsurfing in shipping lanes is though!!!!

Quote from: chrisdickolol, the solent isnt at all. windsurfing in shipping lanes is though!!!!

So what experiace of the Solent do you have.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=b0dA-7QR0GY

Ive sailed it in every form of sail,, jet skis, windsurfed, wake board, skied, donut, wave jumped in my speedboat

Ive steered up and down it under pilot in this:

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b31/chrisdicko/AnvilPoint.jpg)

If you look on google earth, and search Marchwood. Slightly to the right, there are two identical ships. Thats one of them, and thats where we went from. Didnt steer from there though/ Good old captain took her from the birth.

Quote from: chrisdickoIve steered up and down it under pilot in this:

(Image removed from quote.)

If you look on google earth, and search Marchwood. Slightly to the right, there are two identical ships. Thats one of them, and thats where we went from. Didnt steer from there though/ Good old captain took her from the birth.

I often skied by Southampton dock, calm waters, on  the way there we looked everywhere, never saw your ship sorry, as you should know the water by big ships is calm, didnt see yours. we went upto the a30 bridge often, right by southampton dock, by the bridge

Quote from: Privateer

Quote from: chrisdickoIve steered up and down it under pilot in this:



If you look on google earth, and search Marchwood. Slightly to the right, there are two identical ships. Thats one of them, and thats where we went from. Didnt steer from there though/ Good old captain took her from the birth.

I often skied by Southampton dock, calm waters, on  the way there we looked everywhere, never saw your ship sorry, as you should know the water by big ships is calm, didnt see yours. we went upto the a30 bridge often, right by southampton dock, by the bridge

It was only launched in 2002. There were 6 identical (nearly) ships, but two never went to southampton. The other four were always visiting at different times.

Quote from: chrisdickoIt was only launched in 2002. There were 6 identical (nearly) ships, but two never went to southampton. The other four were always visiting at different times.

Cant argue, I sold my Phantom in 21.

Edit I just read this here.

Pilots are qualified navigators who are taken on board a ship, usually at the entrance to a port or river. They then use their local knowledge to sail the vessel into port. Pilots will have been to sea themselves. They usually have a Master`s certificate which lets them command a seagoing ship.
http://www.plimsoll.org/LifeOfAPort/AtWork/RunningShips/Pilots.asp

are you qualified and local, if you are qualified well done, I spent 30 years bumming on the Solent, what a waste, but Ill argue my Local knowledge of the solent and the river hamble are as good as yours.

Quote from: mrt

Quote from: PrivateerI was out in the Solent windsurfing, I fell off in huge swell, it took me ages to get going, I drifted into a shipping Lane, I saw a ferry but he couldnt see me, I was lucky I got going, I was within seconds of being hit, I did not sue the Caption or officer for gross negligence, I counted my lucky stars.

Translation please.  :lol:

Of what? You got Dyslexia or something?

Quote from: Daveguys I seriously doubt those three men just sat there saying "well were not moving weve got right of way" - they may well have been having some difficulty with their boat - no one is going to just sit there while a frickin huge ferry is coming at you.

Yes that officer is clearly incompetent - I mean what sort of human being when involved in a situation where he might have done some serious damadge/killed someone just makes an assumption about it and decides to carry on... I guess the same sort of people who do hit and runs....

He could have got someone to check at the very least....

I mean what went through his head "erm I might have killed some people then, but probably not, ah well lets just crack on and hope it didnt happen

tis a very cavalier thing to do & when peoples lives are potentially at stake it is inexcusable

Dont big ships usually have radar fitted? Should have been easy enough to tell that the yacht wasnt there after it had gone over it.

Quote from: Serious

Quote from: mrt

Quote from: PrivateerI was out in the Solent windsurfing, I fell off in huge swell, it took me ages to get going, I drifted into a shipping Lane, I saw a ferry but he couldnt see me, I was lucky I got going, I was within seconds of being hit, I did not sue the Caption or officer for gross negligence, I counted my lucky stars.

Translation please.  :lol:

Of what? You got Dyslexia or something?

Quote from: Daveguys I seriously doubt those three men just sat there saying "well were not moving weve got right of way" - they may well have been having some difficulty with their boat - no one is going to just sit there while a frickin huge ferry is coming at you.

Yes that officer is clearly incompetent - I mean what sort of human being when involved in a situation where he might have done some serious damadge/killed someone just makes an assumption about it and decides to carry on... I guess the same sort of people who do hit and runs....

He could have got someone to check at the very least....

I mean what went through his head "erm I might have killed some people then, but probably not, ah well lets just crack on and hope it didnt happen

tis a very cavalier thing to do & when peoples lives are potentially at stake it is inexcusable

Dont big ships usually have radar fitted? Should have been easy enough to tell that the yacht wasnt there after it had gone over it.

The officer saw the lights on the yacht, he asumed they were ok.



Mr Hubble, 62, who has 42 years experience at sea,
later accepted that the P&O ferry had come close to a yacht on
 the night of the Ouzo tragedy - but told police he did not believe it had been the stricken vessel.
 He said that when he looked back from the bridge of the ferry he saw a light and assumed the yacht he had passed was safe.

Quote from: redcommon sense imo.

ooo is that big ship going to stop for my tiny little boat.

Exactly my point. Was the sailboats fault completely.

Negligence on the part of the captain though. "I saw a light" is no excuse.