Why have the lib dems suddenly got all the power? These guys only got a few seats, the tories only just missed out so why do they need to power share with the hippies?

Lets look at what the hippies stand for:

Cancelling Eurofighter
Scrapping Trident
8p per km road charging
Using terms like cloud-computing and open-source as if theyll magically reduce IT spending
Harp on about electoral reform as if its the most important issue
Scrap uni fees
Stop building new runways
Stop coal and nuclear power stations
Spend huge chunks of money on stupid stuff like wind farms and eco crap

Honestly, its like someone from the 60s travelled through time, got stoned, then wrote their manefesto. If i was Dave Id be like get lost Clegg, youre a dick so Im working with labour.

dont care..
just happy mongy has gone - or at least announced hes going

fat scottish wanker

Quote from: PeteWhy have the lib dems suddenly got all the power? These guys only got a few seats, the tories only just missed out so why do they need to power share with the hippies?

Lets look at what the hippies stand for:

Cancelling Eurofighter
Scrapping Trident
8p per km road charging
Using terms like cloud-computing and open-source as if theyll magically reduce IT spending
Harp on about electoral reform as if its the most important issue
Scrap uni fees
Stop building new runways
Stop coal and nuclear power stations
Spend huge chunks of money on stupid stuff like wind farms and eco crap

Honestly, its like someone from the 60s travelled through time, got stoned, then wrote their manefesto. If i was Dave Id be like get lost Clegg, youre a dick so Im working with labour.

The Lib Dems have power merely because they hold seats needed by either other party to secure power. Thats the way things work when there is a hung parliament or in most governments where proportional representation is running.

Had the Tories been more popular they would have got enough seats. Had Labour not been so unpopular in some areas they would have kept a few more and managed easily to form an alliance with the Lib Dems.

The main reason is that this is what the people voted for. If you voted then its your fault for voting the way you did. If you didnt then its your fault for wasting your vote.

One more reason, the chances of Labour and the Conservatives forming an alliance is very close to nil. That doesnt mean it is impossible.

Quote from: SeriousThe Lib Dems have power merely because they hold seats needed by either other party to secure power. Thats the way things work when there is a hung parliament or in most governments where proportional representation is running.

Had the Tories been more popular they would have got enough seats. Had Labour not been so unpopular in some areas they would have kept a few more and managed easily to form an alliance with the Lib Dems.

The main reason is that this is what the people voted for. If you voted then its your fault for voting the way you did. If you didnt then its your fault for wasting your vote.

One more reason, the chances of Labour and the Conservatives forming an alliance is very close to nil. That doesnt mean it is impossible.

sorry  m8 this country doesnt count single votes, Fareham is allways blue so i dont need to vote

Quote from: Privateer

Quote from: SeriousThe Lib Dems have power merely because they hold seats needed by either other party to secure power. Thats the way things work when there is a hung parliament or in most governments where proportional representation is running.

Had the Tories been more popular they would have got enough seats. Had Labour not been so unpopular in some areas they would have kept a few more and managed easily to form an alliance with the Lib Dems.

The main reason is that this is what the people voted for. If you voted then its your fault for voting the way you did. If you didnt then its your fault for wasting your vote.

One more reason, the chances of Labour and the Conservatives forming an alliance is very close to nil. That doesnt mean it is impossible.

sorry  m8 this country doesnt count single votes, Fareham is allways blue so i dont need to vote

Ditto, our vote here counts for 0.07 real votes as Privateer motioned. My vote would have done jack. Our country is simply a laughing stock right now.

I dont understand why its a laughing stock. This is democracy in practice. This is exactly what will happen if AV or PR is adopted by the country.

Im very happy with the situation. The Lib Dems dont hold all of the power, they basically ensure our system doesnt become overly Presidential. It shifts back to the Cabinet becoming the most important part of the executive.

In a coalition policy making and scrutiny should be a lot more robust, as one party cannot force through legislation.

Its not what we need in a time of decision making, they are fannying around arguing over political reform - reform which wont take place for at least 5 years even if they argue over it now. We need one party to make some tough decisions and sort out the economy and putting in PR is not going to help matters as we will have this same stupid scenario every time there is an election. No majority and lots of compromise (aka squabbling fat ministers).

Its a joke because we couldnt even afford some people their right to vote with lost ballots, people being turned away. Let alone for them to make the right decision with it. Now weve ended up with a well hung parliament, theres the joke.

Quote from: Clockd 0NeIts not what we need in a time of decision making, they are fannying around arguing over political reform - reform which wont take place for at least 5 years even if they argue over it now. We need one party to make some tough decisions and sort out the economy and putting in PR is not going to help matters as we will have this same stupid scenario every time there is an election. No majority and lots of compromise (aka squabbling fat ministers).

Its a joke because we couldnt even afford some people their right to vote with lost ballots, people being turned away. Let alone for them to make the right decision with it. Now weve ended up with a well hung parliament, theres the joke.

I dont understand much of that argument really. We didnt end up with a hung Parliament, the people voted for one, especially if you take into account the vote share too. Which doesnt really have a place in our FPTP voting system, I admit.

There is pretty much consensus on how to deal with the majority of the deficit so in reality there will only be minor details that differ between the parties. I also dont understand reform taking 5 years unless I missed something from the electoral commission. The fact well end up with a coalition government usually points to another general election in the near future. Especially in our adversarial politics.

Many countries that are perfectly stable have regular coalitions. Germany is the prime example.

Also, you seem to think compromise is a bad situation for government. I would have liked some kind of compromise on the recent Digital Rights Bill, the Anti Terror Laws that allow internment, ASBOs or the 10p tax saga. There is probably an even longer list we could come up with.

Such a strong executive, the kind that FPTP produces, causes an elective dictatorship.

We should be electing people that represent and put forward the policies we want put into place, not coalitions, etc that have to sit round the table and back scratch each other every time a decision needs to be made. You choose the party that best represents you - you decide the policies you want to see in place and elect a leader that you believe acts in your best interests and will make decisions on your behalf. Politicians are corrupt enough as is without all the parties doing deals and vying for proportional power. Without clear cut winners well just end up with an even more putrid mass of effluence governing the country.

I dont remember deciding that I wanted political reform to be an issue, but this is the problem, we now have a system in place where we are not the policy deciders, the government are.

Reform will take years, the electoral comission has already stated that between the parties agreeing to reform, the general population being educated on reform, referendums being run through, etc it will take until at least the next real election. It wont be happening by the time we have a new Labour leader.

Our system has worked for decades without problems to produce solid majority governments. Now, in a crisis situation where all the parties are throwing down policies to tease a confused public to vote for them weve ended up with a mixed result, so its no surprise the losing parties all want to reform so that they are more likely to regain power in the future.

Well have to agree to disagree I suppose.

I think the fact politicians are corrupt means a coalition where by more scrutiny is put upon the executive could only be a good thing. It might take a little bit longer to decide on policy but it means poor legislation would not be as likely to pass through the checks and balances of the House of Commons.

Labour had electoral reform as part of their manifesto as did Lib Dem. As a coalition that would command more than 50% of the popular vote. Which would surely be legitimate.

FPTP certainly has worked for decades but times change. Our system never used to be Presidential, nowadays youd be hard pushed to argue any other way. Coalition government would also stop a slide towards that, as the cabinet would need to agree on policy, moving back to the convention of our consitution where by cabinet is the executive and the Prime Minister is first amongst equals

Not to mention standing for splitting retail and investment banks which there is NO justifiable reason for, massively increasing capital gains tax to 50%, persecuting all bankers who make money regardless of whether they have ever done anything wrong, joining the euro and giving more power to Europe. What a sack of sh*t bunch of popularist policies.

This is why democracy is rubbish - because the electorate are idiots. Im not opposed to PR systems in general except that I dont think a more representational government for this country would be a good thing given that there are more uninformed people than informed. It will turn into even more of an Xfactor election system.

Im very concerned about the concessions labour or tory will have to get to get into power. Electoral reform is so self serving for the LDs and will mean the Torys will probably never have a majority again (given the the Labour left and Lib dems naturally have more in common)

Clockd the whole point is collectively you either voted, with everyone else, for the present situation or you didnt vote. I know Im being extreme here. This is the result the people voted for, although not necessarily the result they wanted. If you are worried about what representation your vote gives you then you should be considering PR.

For me a few more Labour seats and less Tory ones would have been nice, but it didnt happen. Doubtless Sam and others would have preferred a few more Tory MPs going through.

In this, like every other thing in life, you are dealt the cards and you have to play with what you have.

As for PR against FPTP. I see benefits in both systems.

The problem is if there is a landslide victory, as Labour had, they can shove through whatever harebrained legislation they want. PR reduces the possibility of that but it also strengthens any third parties that holds the difference.

FPTP tends to give a solid base to a government in an extreme situation, but the actual governance might not be up to it, or like Blair, might totally misrepresent what is going on.

FPTP might be more stable but you might not like the dodo meat pie they roll out and force feed you.

IF you really think that Coalition governments cant be strong check out WW2 and Churchills Coalition

WW2 was an extreme case though.

And Ill also mention Italy which has had what, 60 odd ? governments since the war. That is a testament to how weak coalitions can be.

Quote from: SeriousClockd the whole point is collectively you either voted, with everyone else, for the present situation or you didnt vote. I know Im being extreme here. This is the result the people voted for, although not necessarily the result they wanted. If you are worried about what representation your vote gives you then you should be considering PR.

For me a few more Labour seats and less Tory ones would have been nice, but it didnt happen. Doubtless Sam and others would have preferred a few more Tory MPs going through.

In this, like every other thing in life, you are dealt the cards and you have to play with what you have.

As for PR against FPTP. I see benefits in both systems.

The problem is if there is a landslide victory, as Labour had, they can shove through whatever harebrained legislation they want. PR reduces the possibility of that but it also strengthens any third parties that holds the difference.

FPTP tends to give a solid base to a government in an extreme situation, but the actual governance might not be up to it, or like Blair, might totally misrepresent what is going on.

FPTP might be more stable but you might not like the dodo meat pie they roll out and force feed you.

IF you really think that Coalition governments cant be strong check out WW2 and Churchills Coalition

churchill didnt have a smoking ban to deal with he smoked heavy and eorope was normal then. and stupid petol prices wernt about then nor stupid id cards i still think a smoking room would be perfect