http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=30597

LOL, oopsey. I love this bit:

QuoteThe journos, who belonged to TG Daily, were first told that the people looking after the stand couldn?t find any HDMI tellies to run the consoles on. However the hacks pointed out all the TVs on the stand had HDMI inputs. The PR people started clearing their throats and claiming that they were a bit short of HDMI cables and that "they are difficult to find".

When they were offered an HDMI cable which one of the hacks happened to have in his car they said no.

Or it could just be that this is still early hardware and there are problems with the HDMI interface at this time...  OMG Sony delay release by 8 months.  Could it be there are problems with they hardware which they are trying to resolve?  *shocked*

Or it could be the Sony TVs arent HDMI 1.3 compatible.

They would have moved heaven and earth to ensure they had TVs that ran with the best setup.  

Quote from: ChanserOr it could be the Sony TVs arent HDMI 1.3 compatible.

Aye, as it said "We know that the PS3 will use HDMI 1.3, but Sony?s current TV offerings use HDMI 1.1"

Makes sense.

Though if you go on what they announced and then Some sony people then told people on the side that the fact it didn?t work yet.

Main point i was making is that they were so much "No" as to show it. The machines had the hardware but they didn?t want to show what happened and were very cagey about it.

In other words it does something pretty bad, its plain broke and they don?t want what ever is wrong coming out as its quite bad.

Don?t get me wrong, love Sony hardware and things i have that are sony are solid as a rock and last till they are upgraded, but when someone doesn?t want to show you something that much its not working and its pretty bad.

Even with the new release date i bet you it will be tight with regard to them finishing and i bet supply will be short.

Watching gamespot vids and reading forums, and GDC they would not even let people touch the controllers (ps2 ones used mind) that were used to interact with the demos (duck in bath for example) which had comments regarding them being very temperamental.

Microsoft only revealed progress when they were happy with things and when things worked, Demos were on the 2 Macs, but very quickly the machine demos came out and they admitted faults ASAP, which was very good for MS, they dont normally do it that well.
Sony with regard to the PS3 at every stage so far seems rushed and temprimental.

Nintendo at GDC didn?t have anything revolution wise, they even gave out boxes shaped as the controller, one console and controller was in a case and people were shoved away even if they touched the glass, lol.
But in interviews they are growing in confidence due to the state of Sony.

On a side note - WOW on the DS lite.
On the old forums i did say, OMG another machine not long after the other moan, but tbh, the DS lite is a good machine.

Nintendo saw the psp, heard the feedback and did something about it.

The screen brightness is great and they made the pen bigger, the build quality is 10 times better, and is in a sense the ds they intended.

Makes you think though that they did indeed rush the ds out to beat the psp and to get the sales and the rep in as well as the low cost. I always thought the casing was like the demo case you would have when making mock ups of it.

Back to the ps3:
Controllers being ps2 ones ad GDC is another good point to highlight. Not in a bad way I don?t think but shows that Sony are re-designing the controller after seeing and using the Xbox360 one and seeing the Nintendo one.
Xbox 360 is in my eyes the best controller out their to date and the Nintendo one has so many possibilities (if it does what they say it will)
Many journalists agree that at E3 the statement of ?The controller design may change? was a rushed in comment after seeing the xbox360 controller in more detail at the show.

There is no Harm in Sony learning and making changes as a result of thing as mentioned in my post, but you got to admit that they for once didn?t/haven?t done it right this time and are rushing and worried a bit more then they thought they would be, I mean they have people leaving and left The gaming departments for MS and Nintendo as well in the past two years.

MS have done a good job if this is what they have done to Sony, from the get go they have tried to out do them with ambitious specs etc, and they are pushing the limits and taking risks.

The next big thing will be the cost, die hard fans will pay what ever, but by the time it launches the xbox360 full pack will be like 150 pound or something and the revolution has poor tech so will be cheap.

With this all in mind if it doesn?t go well it could hurt Sony bad :/ I bet you they have spent the most cash in development and will loose the most per console in terms of cost to sale ratio.

People here tend to comment bad when I post and that?s my fault, I don?t put the points I try to get across in a short statement very well. I apologise for that as well as this long post, but hopefully you will get a better idea of my thoughts on the matter.

Geez nexus...give the PS3 a chance!!

November 2006 is enough time to sort any issues out, whether it be HDMI or blu-ray.

Im actually looking forward to PS3!

Quote from: BatchIm actually looking forward to PS3!

Of course you are!

Im still waiting for some decent games for my PSP.

Batch, you will be surprised how long it can take for the cause of a problem to be found in modern hardware, the fix itself is usually very fast its just finding out what is causing it can be a time consuming process.  I know from past experience.  Just on a sidenote, you would be surprised at the number of hardware issues that exist and the number of times that a software fix has been used to get around this.

I do wonder if people such as yourself Batch are open to consider a console which isnt a Sony.  You say give the PS3 a chance.  Its going to get more than one, but I do have to ask... did you give anything other than Sony branded a chance?  Im sure if they took a sample of your blood they would find the Sony gene

I know how youre going to react to that but I do mean it in a light hearted way.  Sony has been good to you in the past so it will do so again.  

The launch *may* make or break the PS3.  If it goes similar to the Xbox360 launch then questions have to be asked.  Why didnt they learn from the mistakes made in that launch?

I would say MS currently has the ball at the moment and its up to Sony to take it off them.  There are 3 key aspects.  Price, Availability and Launch titles.   The games shown at E3 which ran on dual Macs were shown way too early, it gave a false impression of the quality of games.  All previews at the time included the "this is on alpha kit" but I believe every single one did question whether or not the 360 was that great of a leap forward.  Showing things too early can do more bad than good, but not showing anything at all can be worse.

Apart from the hardware shortages the Xbox360 has had an excellent launch (ignoring Japan) and it has followed through.  From my memory of previous launches, damn near every console has had a period where nothing of any worth is released.  I dont beleive the 360 has had such a gap... yet.  I think it has had quite possibly one of the best launch line ups and then 2nd wind releases.  I currently own 6 Xbox 360 games and I am due to own my 7th shortly and I want an 8th and maybe a 9th also.  

Having said that, I think the PS3 has more longevity than the 360.  It has HDMI and Bluray for a start.  OK, the 360 is going to get a HD DVD as an addon but if youre going to buy that you may as well buy a standalone.  I think thats a waste of time and money and was only done to shut up Sony.

A major selling point, which strangely is not pushed a great deal, is Xbox Live.  It is the biggest selling point it has to offer at this present moment in time.  Download demos and videos straight to your Xbox.  MS are more than happy with the way Xbox Live has progressed.  I would have thought the take up would be higher.  I have not personally done so myself, I am saving my free month of gold access for when I have something I want to play online.

I am surprised about the amount of silence surrounding the PS3.  Although, thinking back to the Xbox360, when did we start getting any concrete info regarding the 360?  One thing I will say is when MS showed it, it was the final design.  I think there is still some tinkering to be had with the PS3.  I read an anonymous developer say that the PS3 controller design is still to be decided but it will not be far from the design that has currently been shown.

If Sony is to challenge MS on price alone it is going to have to accept heavy losses per console for the first 18 months at least.  Sony is no longer in the position to be able to accept those losses.  There rest of Sony is not doing as well as it has in the past, on the other hand MS has money to burn.  I wouldnt put it past MS to drop the price of the 360 by Ã,£30 on PS3 launch and possibly a tier 1 game for launch as well.

Rather than asking why would you buy X console, should I ask why wouldnt you buy X console.  

At this moment in time I would be apprehensive in buying a PS3 because of:
1) Cost.
2) Launch titles are completely unknown.
3) Do I need to play an F1 game that badly?

Having said that, there are things that I know wont make it to the Xbox360 that I would want.  Similar for the PS2 and Xbox.  I would have loved Katamari Damacy to have come to Xbox but that was never to be.  *sigh*.  Gran Turismo...

There are alot of things that MS did wrong with the Xbox360, eg media centre playback, shortages which are still ongoing in parts of the US, However there are alot of significant parts that they got right.  The controller is the best controller I have ever used, ignoring the D-pad which is one of the worst, Xbox Live, Launch titles and 2nd wind titles being very good.  What can Sony do?  I cant wait to find out  

Quote from: Deaths HeadBatch, you will be surprised how long it can take for the cause of a problem to be found in modern hardware, the fix itself is usually very fast its just finding out what is causing it can be a time consuming process.  I know from past experience.  Just on a sidenote, you would be surprised at the number of hardware issues that exist and the number of times that a software fix has been used to get around this.

Yeah mate, this was whats been my thinking and i hope it came across ok. As i said sony do good hardware when it all goes well and when its out their to sell their products are pritty good. They have admited some issues and a delay, but being honest and going on the several reports i have now read, they have issues to do with the disks, drive and high def and they havent really found the fix for it.
I know they still have memory issues etc, but that has been identified and will be fixed.
I am a man who likes honesty, if something isnt going to happen or somone cant do something for me etc, i dont like them to tell me that they may be able to sort it, or just ignore me. Even if its bad news at least i will know.

QuoteI would say MS currently has the ball at the moment and its up to Sony to take it off them. There are 3 key aspects. Price, Availability and Launch titles. The games shown at E3 which ran on dual Macs were shown way too early, it gave a false impression of the quality of games. All previews at the time included the "this is on alpha kit" but I believe every single one did question whether or not the 360 was that great of a leap forward. Showing things too early can do more bad than good, but not showing anything at all can be worse.

Yeah, MS went out on a limb to show at least something for people and kind of gave a bad impression, but did say to people that they had games that were made and you could play and did say "they will be better" and are.
They learnt a lot form the xbox and improved on many aspects, and tbh everyone has to give a hand it to the team that made it, they did a good job. Its not the most ideal machine in the world by far, but it is better by a mile then the xbox and thats what counts.
Sony have shown demo after demo, videos (which we all now know as they admited were pre-rendered movies and not real time. The tech wasnt even working yet so they could not have them done, no kits were even shipped out) and its kind of anoyed many people now.

Batch just look at the time frames, Xmas release in Japan with no actual proper in game footage for ANY game shown, and no actual hardware, even non finished machines running. GDC they had one that could do some sound, anothe box with different hardware to do graphics demos etc, it isnt great stuff.

QuoteHaving said that, I think the PS3 has more longevity than the 360. It has HDMI and Bluray for a start. OK, the 360 is going to get a HD DVD as an addon but if youre going to buy that you may as well buy a standalone. I think thats a waste of time and money and was only done to shut up Sony.

Agreed, it will last longer, MS realised that when there was talk of releasing a better hardrive etc, but nevermind, Sony will pay the price with regard to its cost.

Last parts of your thread Deaths Head i totaly agree with.

Xbox has the ball in their court, they have it early, they can get game devlopment pushed out, games will devlope and improve earlier then that of the PS3, Developers will be getting to grips with the code much sooner, they now will improve the manafacture of the machine and therefore make it cheaper, it Will be cheaper by the time PS3 launches.

The thing is, there are a lot of worring factors appearing in the PS3 plan, the list is growing, and as Deaths head said as well - No real games to show, no real console to show, and your launching in  6-7 months time.
Questions have to be asked.

A more direct comment to Batch:

As i said - I love sony products, i had a playstation, i have a psp (agree that i am let down by the lack of good games, they have been slow coming, there are some really good ones finally coming at last, but its been a long wait)

I think the build on most Sony items are great, the new walkman is a grea t design for example.
BUT
I think Sony got a bit complacent with the PS3, they went all out on the hardware, which never is a bad thing IF you can get it to work. The cell is a clever thing and we will see it used in many things over the years and the PS3 features do sound nice, BUT they thought/think they will have the market no matter what they do, And i think they made an error with that mindset and no matter how popular or well the machine does IT WILL COST THEM.
I can see quite it being quite possible that the PS3 will be a hit with people, the games will be stunning and play well (thanks to the developers of course) But even if its a hit i think its going to hurt Sony, they are going to take heavy losses not only finance wise either.

I mean look at Nintendo, they have even less to show,  The gamecube hurt them and they are picking themselfs up and trying but they and others, even me now are growing in confidence with the revolution becuase of its concepts and cost and development time.
I saw a new video yesterday of a guy wield the controler as a light sabre and a moterbike handle and a helicopter control stick - thats great use, as long as it works game play is going to be very different for that machine, and their goal to have non games enjoy playing it i now beleave will work IF they do what they say it will.

As i said:

I like sony

MS have been honest all the way(as much as companies can be) and the xbox team has put the effort in producing something that is decent. I so which i could buy and actually use a 360(my bad hand)

Sony have put out all the stops on the tech, but have not been honest with people and could have taken more then they can chew.

Sony Has made it to costley for them or/and the consumer


The console is not on sale, and the 3 companies are not all trying for the same next gen market yet so we dont really know how things will pan out, but you cant deny that Sony has as the title says got issues.

Will be interesting to see if they can pull it off, and even if they do and people love the console; will the number of people that own one be enough and will hit hurt sony to much in the pocket that departments close and people loose their job to claw back the money, remember Sony World has allready made cutbacks in many areas and sacked a lot of people and rumour was that it was due to production and development costs of recent and up and coming products (walkman, psp, ps3, HDDVD war)

As I agree with Deaths Head, its a make or break, much like Xbox360, but with higher stakes.

And again as Deaths said, i cant wait ti see what pans out.

TBH, just because you have something to show, doesnt mean you have to show it.  The PS3 has a confirmed world wide release date with units now well into production iirc.

Valve for example recently attended GDC iirc.  They showed absolutely nothing of Half Life 2: Episode 1 (May 31st    ) or anything else that is in development, they were just there to talk to people wishing to use the source engine for their games.

I think your all looking at this issue somewhat to deeply.

Quote from: Deaths Head2) Launch titles are completely unknown.

http://playstation.about.com/od/ps3/a/PS3LaunchGames.htm

And teh rest of them eventually....

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/618/618430p1.html

Some recent demo news...

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/698/698165p1.html

Oh here are some recent comments on the Revolution btw...

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2006/03/31/nintendo_comments_revolution/

As much as sony and square are denying it, i have a feeling some kind of final fantasy 7 related game, possibly a remake of the original is on the cards for the ps3.

If they did release it, especially on launch, it would be big, bigger tha big. But everyone is denying it so who knows. But sony need something big for their launch, they are behind in the next gen console market already, delaying and losing ground on a pretty successful 360 launch, they need something that will make people pay whatever they charge on launch

ff7 remake could do that, or possibly something else, but it would have to be a suprise as they need the hype to sell it.

heres hoping

Quote from: CypherTBH, just because you have something to show, doesnt mean you have to show it.  The PS3 has a confirmed world wide release date with units now well into production iirc.

Valve for example recently attended GDC iirc.  They showed absolutely nothing of Half Life 2: Episode 1 (May 31st    ) or anything else that is in development, they were just there to talk to people wishing to use the source engine for their games.

I think your all looking at this issue somewhat to deeply.

Quote from: Deaths Head2) Launch titles are completely unknown.

http://playstation.about.com/od/ps3/a/PS3LaunchGames.htm

And teh rest of them eventually....

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/618/618430p1.html

Some recent demo news...

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/698/698165p1.html

Oh here are some recent comments on the Revolution btw...

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2006/03/31/nintendo_comments_revolution/

DEMOS, not games. Hardware demos.
And guess what, one type of demo per machine that had the componants to do it. NOT in any ps3 case or shape.
The water demo machine crashed several times at GDC.

30 games sounds cool, but when now you have one machine for sound, one for visuals and not being able to use the hdi cable, cell chips in pc cases not in ps3, not a great sign.
You cant Have manafacture well under way and shipped when only febuary you gave out devlopment machines at a decent level.

I said what i thnk the ps3 will be like, it will be good, but will cost to much and wont be when they say it will be.

I dont see what the fuss is about!

When the X360 was demod at E3, it was empty boxes, with Macs running the games.