Author Topic: Are you going to watch the hanging?  (Read 4569 times)

  • Offline Dave

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Re:Are you going to watch the hanging?
Reply #45 on: December 30, 2006, 15:58:38 PM
Quote from: Serious
In the case of lethal injection they put normally the person out by using anaesthetic before they kill.


yeah but it doesnt always work - there was a recent case where it didnt work as they stuck it in his arm but completely missed any blood vessel & the guy didnt die for 30 minutes & was in immense pain for the entire time.

The staff who administer the injection are often poorly trained and when they dont get it directly into a vein it can be a complete cockup.

Still its better than the electric chair where the victims piss and sh*t themselves suffer sever burns are in pain for several minutes and then sometimes dont die anyway and so have to go through it all again.

  • Offline Serious

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Re:Are you going to watch the hanging?
Reply #46 on: December 30, 2006, 16:15:34 PM
Should be simple enough, if they use incompetents then they should be KOing them with gas and then hydrogen cyanide. Takes seconds to a minute at most.

Are you going to watch the hanging?
Reply #47 on: December 30, 2006, 17:05:11 PM
Quote from: Dave
Quote from: maximusotter
Execution is fairly quick and painless by hanging. I have no human rights issues with it.


youre joking right?

not that Im too bothered - it is sadam - but it is a complete myth that it is  fairly quick or painless



Is conjecture all you have? Or would you like to present an argument.

Mine is very simple: even if the drop technique is less than stellar, the carotid and jugular arteries are compressed, causing unconsciousness in less than a minute. If the drop is good, the neck is broken and the body is paralyzed.

If hanging wasnt so relatively pain free, it wouldnt be the number one choice of suicides in the UK.

Feel free to argue with me, but try bringing some facts to the table.

  • Offline Pete

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Re:Are you going to watch the hanging?
Reply #48 on: December 30, 2006, 17:29:57 PM
Newsflash: He just got killed apparently.


http://www.richard.clark32.btinternet.co.uk/hanging2.html its a lohng article so...

Short drop:
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There exist many reports and pictures of actual short drop hangings which seem to show that the person died quickly and fairly peacefully, while others indicate a slow and agonising death by strangulation.



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Total body death results usually within less than 20 minutes as the brain becomes starved of oxygen. In Britain, it was normal to leave the body suspended for an hour to ensure death.


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Two men were hanged in Jordan in May 1995 and an official who witnessed the hangings said, "Although they fell unconscious in a matter of minutes, their hearts stopped 20 minutes later."



Standard drop hanging:

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Where the standard drop proves inadequate to break the neck, the prisoner seems often to suffer a more cruel death where little or no drop is used. The force generated by a drop of 5 or 6 feet is very considerable and does great damage to the skin, muscles and ligaments of the neck but does not necessarily induce asphyxia any sooner. This description of a hanging at San Quentin prison in California is from Clinton Duffy who was the warden there from 1942 to 1954 and relates to the execution of Major Raymond Lisemba on May 9th, 1942. "The man hit bottom and I observed that he was fighting by pulling on the straps, wheezing, whistling, trying to get air, that blood was oozing through the black cap. I observed also that he urinated, defecated, and droppings fell on the floor, and the stench was terrible". "I also saw witnesses pass out and have to be carried from the witness room. Some of them threw up."
It took ten minutes for the condemned man to die. When he was taken down and the cap removed, "big hunks of flesh were torn off" the side of his face where the noose had been, "his eyes were popped," and his tongue was "swollen and hanging from his mouth. His face had turned purple." Fortunately not all standard drop hangings were so gruesome and many prisoners did not show any signs of physical suffering.


Long drop:

I saw a long drop and it was a two-storey building, gives you an idea of the drop from the trapdoor.

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It takes between a half and three quarters of a second for a person to reach the end of the drop after the trap opens. The force produced by the prisoners body weight multiplied by the length of fall and the force of gravity, coupled with the position of the noose is designed to cause a virtually instant fracture-dislocation of the neck which leads to death by comatose asphyxia. It is thought that brain death will occur in around 6 minutes and whole body death normally within 10-15 minutes. It is very variable, however, with official reports of from 3-25 minutes for total death to have occurred.



Painful?

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Does the prisoner feel pain where the drop is sufficient to break their neck?
Obviously no one can be sure but it is generally held that if they do feel pain, it is only during the instant that their neck is broken which can be measured in milliseconds.
Those who witnessed modern British hangings never described any obvious suffering on the part of the prisoner and the two post-mortem reports that are available do not seem to indicate anything but a quick death. The independently witnessed hangings of Westley Allan Dodd (see below) in Washington and Billy Bailey in Delaware did not indicate any obvious signs of conscious suffering.
It is also probable that some people black out as they fall through the trap and are already unconscious before they reach the end of the drop.
However, according to Harold Hillman, a British physiologist who has studied executions, "the dangling person probably feels cervical pain, and suffers from an acute headache, as a result of the rope closing off the veins of the neck. It had been generally assumed that fracture-dislocation of the neck causes instantaneous loss of sensation. Sensory pathways from below the neck are ruptured, but the sensory signals from the skin above the noose and from the trigeminal nerve may continue to reach the brain until hypoxia blocks them."
In the opinion of Dr. Cornelius Rosse, the chairman of the Department of Anatomy at the University of Washington School of Medicine, the belief that fracture of the spinal cord causes instantaneous death is wrong in all but a small fraction of cases. In this he is certainly right, but the point is whether it causes instantaneous loss of consciousness, which seems highly probable.

Surviving the gallows.
It is sometimes possible to revive a person hanged using a short drop as the next two cases illustrate.
An Iranian man identified only as Niazali, was hanged in February 1996 but survived after the victims relatives pardoned him. He told the Iranian daily newspaper "Kayhan" what it had felt like.
"That first second lasted like a thousand years. I felt my arms and legs jerking out of control. Up on the gallows in the dark, I was trying to fill my lungs with air, but they were crumpled up like plastic bags," Niazali said, describing his hanging which lasted 20 minutes. Another man in Iran survived suspension for 4 minutes on November 16th, 2001 after his victims relatives also pardoned him. Ramin Tshaharleng was taken to hospital and his condition was described as "satisfactory". Under Sharia law, the family of the victim have the power to pardon a murderer even after the execution has begun.



Conclusion:


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Conclusions.
Carried out carefully and humanely, using an accurately measured drop and modern noose, hanging is possibly the least cruel way to execute a criminal. In 20th century Britain, the whole process was over extremely quickly and every effort was made to reduce the criminals mental and physical suffering. However, as can be seen from the examples cited above, it can also be a very cruel death, if either botched or carried out in such a way as to intentionally maximise the prisoners suffering. It is probable that the countries that execute criminals using little or no drop in public do so in the hope of achieving maximum deterrence and feel that the criminal should be made to suffer for what they have done. Many respondents to my survey feel hanging is the most cruel form of capital punishment.



The post-mortem is interesting.


I know sh*ts bad right now with all that starving bullsh*t and the dust storms and we are running out of french fries and burrito coverings.

  • Offline neXus

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Re:Are you going to watch the hanging?
Reply #49 on: December 30, 2006, 18:00:57 PM
On the news just now, yep he is now dead and it was filmed

Re:Are you going to watch the hanging?
Reply #50 on: December 30, 2006, 18:01:37 PM
Quote from: Ceathreamhnan
So it seems weve introduced western democracy into Iraq, but we cant introduce common decent human treatment (regardless of what he may have done in the past).

Or, to put it in context, weve pilloried members of the US and UK armed forces for treating Iraqi prisoners inhumanely (by pretending they were going to torture them or laughing at the state of their willies), but weve nothing to say about the same people wanting to commit institutional murder? That is a double standard.


The most insightful post in this thread, imo.

Re:Are you going to watch the hanging?
Reply #51 on: December 30, 2006, 20:00:50 PM
Quote from: DeltaZero
Quote from: Ceathreamhnan
So it seems weve introduced western democracy into Iraq, but we cant introduce common decent human treatment (regardless of what he may have done in the past).

Or, to put it in context, weve pilloried members of the US and UK armed forces for treating Iraqi prisoners inhumanely (by pretending they were going to torture them or laughing at the state of their willies), but weve nothing to say about the same people wanting to commit institutional murder? That is a double standard.


The most insightful post in this thread, imo.


No, its the most naive. Call it murder if you want, but in the eyes of the vast majority of people in the region, its called "justice". Ive talked to Kurds and Yemeni people in the last day or so, and the former felt a great weight had been lifted, and the guys from Yemen I know, being from the region were like "meh, whatever, thats done, can we switch to David Letterman now?".

Its their court system, not ours. To not execute in a system which calls for such punishment for much lesser crimes, would be rediculous. Comparing it to the systematic torture endured by prisoners captured by the Americans is also an impossible analogy. Torture is seen as unjust by most people in the region, an outrage, while capital punishment for an appropriate reason is not.

Trying to claim some sort of moral high ground now is an absurd impossiblity. After half a million unnecessary dead to stiffen the cocks of Geogie and Tony, its time we STFU and let Iraq TCB as Elvis used to say.


On another note, what to do with the body.

  • Offline Pete

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Re:Are you going to watch the hanging?
Reply #52 on: December 30, 2006, 20:28:04 PM
It is Eid ul-Adha today, traditionally celebrated by sacrificing an animal. Think that says it all regarding the level of humanity present in this circus act.

/Goes back to reading about gallows and stuff :)

I know sh*ts bad right now with all that starving bullsh*t and the dust storms and we are running out of french fries and burrito coverings.

Are you going to watch the hanging?
Reply #53 on: December 30, 2006, 20:53:29 PM
I dont think hes dead!!

  • Offline Smugs

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Re:Are you going to watch the hanging?
Reply #54 on: December 30, 2006, 21:14:53 PM
Well thats that.
TekForums member since 14th August 2002

  • Offline neXus

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Are you going to watch the hanging?
Reply #55 on: December 30, 2006, 21:40:11 PM
Quote from: *she-devil*
I dont think hes dead!!


The video of him in the body bag with his neck looking well and truly broke says otherwise

Are you going to watch the hanging?
Reply #56 on: December 30, 2006, 22:37:54 PM
Quote from: neXus
Quote from: *she-devil*
I dont think hes dead!!


The video of him in the body bag with his neck looking well and truly broke says otherwise


Well I havent seen that, the one I saw said they werent filming that.

  • Offline Serious

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Are you going to watch the hanging?
Reply #57 on: December 30, 2006, 23:07:03 PM
Quote from: *she-devil*
Quote from: neXus
Quote from: *she-devil*
I dont think hes dead!!


The video of him in the body bag with his neck looking well and truly broke says otherwise


Well I havent seen that, the one I saw said they werent filming that.
They filmed the whole hanging and afterwards his corpse in a shroud Its been shown on BBC news 24 at least twice an hour this afternoon.

They just didnt show the actual hanging bit on TV.

Are you going to watch the hanging?
Reply #58 on: December 30, 2006, 23:28:15 PM
Quote from: Serious
Quote from: *she-devil*
Quote from: neXus
Quote from: *she-devil*
I dont think hes dead!!


The video of him in the body bag with his neck looking well and truly broke says otherwise


Well I havent seen that, the one I saw said they werent filming that.
They filmed the whole hanging and afterwards his corpse in a shroud Its been shown on BBC news 24 at least twice an hour this afternoon.

They just didnt show the actual hanging bit on TV.


Fair enough, I dont really watch news so thats prob why I havent seen that.
Thank goodness, dont really wanna see, ugh.

  • Offline Serious

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Are you going to watch the hanging?
Reply #59 on: December 31, 2006, 01:28:28 AM
Quote from: *she-devil*
Quote from: Serious
Quote from: *she-devil*
Quote from: neXus
Quote from: *she-devil*
I dont think hes dead!!


The video of him in the body bag with his neck looking well and truly broke says otherwise


Well I havent seen that, the one I saw said they werent filming that.
They filmed the whole hanging and afterwards his corpse in a shroud Its been shown on BBC news 24 at least twice an hour this afternoon.

They just didnt show the actual hanging bit on TV.


Fair enough, I dont really watch news so thats prob why I havent seen that.
Thank goodness, dont really wanna see, ugh.


If you have been through front line medical like I have you get to see a few people dead. Mostly it doesnt bother me now.

People getting murdered for no just reason still gets me though. Good job he was guilty as hell.

If there is a hell hes probably got a room pretty close to Richard the Lionheart (worth looking up the true facts about him if you feel up to it. TBH I doubt if you ever should).

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